[Closed] iDave Diet Joinee

mugsys_m8, i've met him a few times. ERC are great 🙂

Mol, this was in the email about the ramp test.

The ramp test represents a gradual and continual increase in workload to maximal volitional exhaustion i.e. your bike is placed on a testing rig and the resistance you pedal against is automatically increased until you reach exhaustion. From this your maximum minute power (the average power output sustained for the final minute of exercise), and maximum heart rate can be determined. These 2 markers along with the slope of the heart rate graph throughout the test can be used in subsequent tests to determine improvement. The data can also be used to determine heart rate and power training zones. To make the test meaningful you will need to be well rested and should bring your road bike, cycling kit, a towel and plenty to drink. A heart rate monitor strap is supplied.

As for the rest, i know re glycogen window but with a meal plus the extra recovery may mean calories in is more than calories out? I dunno, just musing, and yes, i am aware its not always about calories in than out before you argue that one! 🙂 Are you training today too then? I did have DOMs, post weights in the gym and very occassionally after 3 days of racing/cycling (like after this weekend) but not if i use compression tights and make sure i have protein in the meal after exercise - i don't eat meat remember so my protein content often isn't spot on for recovery hence the doms. I've only about 6/7 crits races compared to maybe 20 RRs so i need to be good at both.

The club offers a FTP test as well as the ramp test but the ramp test is what they want those racing to do.

i know re glycogen window but with a meal plus the extra recovery may mean calories in is more than calories out?

Just eat less at the meal. To be honest, Torq recovery drink totally eradicates post-ride munchies for me, to the point where I have to remind myself to eat in the evening even after a huge ride. It's a perfect opportunity to have a meat and veggie meal I reckon with very few available calories but bags of nutrition.

Are you training today too then?

Yep, I feel tip top so why not? I'm thinking a run and a late night swim.

Btw if you are veggie I'd be really worried about iron - you are still taking those iron pills aren't you?

At one point I was going to go all out on sports supplements... can't help thinking that the majority of us just don't need them

Define 'need'. I would strongly recommend trying Torq recovery, I still find it amazing how great I feel the following day. There's no point in trying to decide if it'll be good or not - just try it out. DO NOT get the chocolate orange one though, it's disgusting. Mango and banana is ok but the Strawberry one tastes like ice cream 🙂

[i]I think I might be under re-fuelling based on what Mol consumes.[/i]

you'll need to consume what Mol consumes in order to recover properly and maintain a balanced weight 😉

Kev

Hm.. I don't have a turbo any more but I do have some rollers. I wonder if I can use them for a ramp test in my garage?

Btw if you are veggie I'd be really worried about iron

Pescetarian IIRC - more iron in alot of seafood than in traditional cuts of meat. Can't beat black pudding though 🙂

Need as in require them to get out training again ASAP without the session suffering. I'd strongly question whether anyone needs them until they're at an athletic weight.

Sleep, or lack of it, has the biggest impact on my exercise.

Btw if you are veggie I'd be really worried about iron

Mustard - here's a link just incase you start losing those gorgeous locks over it...

http://healthyeatingclub.com/info/books-phds/books/foodfacts/html/data/data5e.html

Ok fair enough, i'll give you the recovery drink last night if you are training again today 🙂 I doubt you can do a ramp test on rollers though. I'll let you know details of mine tonight/how long the test took etc.

Yup, still on the iron. At least these days i can spot the early signs of needing it and get back on it before i get too run down. Most women cyclists i know need to take iron, regardless of eating meat or not. I've upped the amount of fish i'm eating atm too.

I can 100% say i don't need recovery drinks after training, or even racing at the moment. Last year i did but i am much fitter and stronger than this time last year. Like Yeti, sleep has a huge impact on how i recover.

Yeti, why don't you do an experiement over the next few weeks? One week as you'd normally do. One week of recovery products. One week on coke? 🙂

What should i eat before my ramp test at tonight?!

Dirty - my current experiment is ditching any recovery mini-eggs. So far this week I've dropped 4lb.

Very little I'd imagine. How long does a ramp test last?

How long does a ramp test last?

as long as you can take i presume..

http://www.cyclingtips.com.au/2009/04/maximum-aerobic-power-in-cycling/

but you are a worrier! I don't take iron and have no worries, or anaemia.

Mrs Grips eats meat, doesn't exercise a lot and has anaemia problems. What's your point caller? Should I not worry about her either?

I'll try the rollers, see how I get on. Maybe deflate my tyres.

What should i eat before my ramp test at tonight?!

A test like that you're going be using all your sugars.

Honey this afternoon to make sure livers topped up to the max.

DGoAB, [i]is[/i] actually a [s]girl[/s] woman ?.

I thought you were just another forumite with identity issues.

No Solo - I'm also actually a woman.

I was being cheeky...I don't want to throw up on my newly taped bars 😀 I am going to have a banana and honey so i'm not hungry and can work as hard as i need to. I've no idea how logn it lasts, i think there's a 20min warm up, and then it begins for about 15mins or so then a cool down. I'm interested to see the data, as i can never work as hard indoors as i can outside/against other people.

My honey sarnies worked well before my crit race last week.

Solo *checks* yup, i am most definately a women. I don't think being 32 means i'm a girl anymore. And i'm getting my ass handed to me on a plate by a 16 year old girl (she's also in that photo i posted up and i reckon is set to be a pro).

Edit, i was racing against Cath Wiggins in that photo, you can just see her. My claim to fame. She's strong!

DG I also can't work as hard indoors. Well, I feel like I am going all out, but my power meter tells me I'm nowhere near what I can do on the road. Apparently lots of power meter users report the same thing.

[i]I thought you were just another forumite with identity issues. [/i]

[i]No Solo - I'm also actually a woman.[/i]

😉

I have a BF Solo... he wouldn't take kindly to you winking over me.

here's a link just incase you start losing those gorgeous locks over it...

EDIT - looking at that chart, and in an iDave context, I think I try and get my RDA from red wine *hic*

What's your point caller?

Veggies often have reduced iron intake. You may not, fine, but it's a risk that needs to be managed. Which is what I meant when I said 'worried'. Comment was directly addressed to DG who looks pretty much like a woman in the pictures.

So molgrips,TSY,iDave,dgoab are you not incredibly hungry when you exercise? Last nights meal is enough to get me through the night and out of bed, but then I'm hungry! I can do my commute on empty (takes an hour)but I just don't enjoy being hungry.

Bagstard.. well I do get hunger but it's a funny thing. There's some hormone secreted by the stomach lining in response to carbs, iirc, that makes you feel full. If I am not eating carb dense foods then I can often feel really hungry despite having consumed a plateful, but one biccie and I'm fine. Although this is probably not a good idea as one biccie begets many more biccies as I'm discovering. It may not be bad for the diet to have an occasional treat, but the real damage seems to be a sort of snowball effect.

I do often get hunger unless I eat a real shtload of beans, but it's sort of different.. easier to deal with. You do have to really make sure you eat a lot of beans though if you want to exercise a lot. Or, the alternative is, carb up during and after according to the rules.

Bagstard.. well I do get hunger....

How? You eat loads.

I eat plenty of veg and beans, yes. As above, doesn't necessarily quench my hunger though. I can eat a huge plate of meat, beans and veg and feel bloody starving immediately afterwards.

God help anyone reading this hoping for some information of value

[i]God help anyone reading this hoping for some information of value [/i]

Time for a precis then ?.

After all, who better....
😉

I see your new friend hasn't returned. Thankfully.

Forget petrol delivery strikes.

WTF happened to the hamsters

God help anyone reading this hoping for some information of value

EDIT -

WTF happened to the hamsters

[i]God help anyone reading this hoping for some information of value[/i]

Same as every diet thread, it always becomes Molly and the Cookie Jar.

Kev

[i]Same as every diet thread, it always becomes Molly and the Cookie Jar.[/i]

Not as often as it becomes the TSY and DGoAB show.

**Awaits iDave's precis**

Also. All this chat about cycling... 😯

Its cost me a lot as I've just bought new cassette, chain and front ring.

Not sure whether I want new tyres..... I like the colours of those Schwalbe extremo thingies.

Oh, and theres the minor issue of me not knowing anywhere to ride in my new home of Coventry.

I've learnt a bit, mostly that if you eat cheesecake and coke you don't lose weight.

And I'm pretty sure Solo is writing in some form of Middle Ages sonnet or something.

Oh, and theres the minor issue of me not knowing anywhere to ride in my new home of Coventry.

You're right.

There isn't.

Cannock Chase is nearest, or Hopwas Woods for a half hour bimble.

What tyres for iDave diet ?.

[i]And I'm pretty sure Solo is writing in some form of Middle Ages sonnet or something. [/i]

[img] [/img]

Make that three workouts today. Digging the veg patch, then a run, then a swim. The STW middle class triathlon.

Big John.

Thanks for that.
I'll try to get to those places one day.

But for now I was thinking road riding as I only have my road bike with me, until my new home is built.

God help anyone reading this hoping for some information of value

Right, you lot, you can stop praying. I'm back from yoga.

You do have to really make sure you eat a lot of beans though if you want to exercise a lot. Or, the alternative is, carb up during and after according to the rules.

Molly - how can 'you' offer advice like this when you are so different from the rest of us?

Bagstard - I tend to not feel hungry, then all of a sudden it hits me and I have to do something about it. Normally this is first thing in the morning or straight after exercise. The last week I've ditched my pre swim banana in the morning and fill up with a glass of warm water and a coffee. I have to eat PDQ when I'm finished swimming though.

And I'm pretty sure Solo is writing in some form of Middle Ages sonnet or something.

Solo is my favourite poet. I rarely read his posts I just look at how beautiful they are.

Molly - tell me more about these three workouts? What you doing? Are you becoming an addict?

straight after exercise

Reco drink is good for this.

Yeti, it's spring, I have a veg patch, and the 50m pool is open late on Thursdays after the family is in bed.

How far you swimming and running?

I don't need a reco drink then as I have a meal.

I exercise before 8am.
Between 12 and 2.
After 6.

This is timed nicely with conventional meal times.

IMO you don't need to refuel after every workout. Not immediately anyway. Normal meals are fine. A lot of info put out there for elite athletes gets used by recreational athletes. No need.

Dave, Molgrips is an Elite Athlete. Why else would he use specialist recovery products and have a power meter?

Use your noodle.*

*Or low GI equivalent.

Just got the fact sheet.

So whats the deal with no dairy?

Gave up milk a long time ago, but cheese and yoghurt. That's going to be tough.

I always thought cheese was low carb and yoghurt aswell so long as its not got added fruit etc.

Well in my experience reco drink definitely helps me feel less hungry after a big ride and much less tired the following day. Maybe that's not desirable in the long run for some other reason, I dunno.

I don't understand this elite athlete bit. Surely if it helps, it helps - regardless of how good you are?

FieldMarshall - it's not a low GI diet as such, it's a low insulin diet. Dairy products, whilst low GI, produce a higher insulin response than they ought to from their carbs alone. Likewise fruit afaik.

IMO you don't need to refuel after every workout

I generally follow the rules in the plan.

try telling that to our friends Cheesecake and Cola!!!!!

Kev

A lot of info put out there for elite athletes gets used by recreational athletes.

Some of the diet plans I've read for elite triathlets aren't that disimilar to normal eating... sure they eat more of it, but they're swimming 5k+, cycling for 3 hours and doing hard run intervals over 10k.

Surely if it helps, it helps

I'm guessing they don't aid weight loss?

It's not a 'low carb' diet FM

diary is paradoxically low GI but has a high insulinemic response.

Thanks.

Understood.

Goes away to look up "insulinemic response". 💡

I'm guessing they don't aid weight loss?

Post ride carbs is on the diet plan. Not sure why I'm being castigated here.

I am aware this is coming across as a have a go at Molgrips session, but...

I generally follow the rules in the plan.

The plan states, supplementary eating to accommodate exercise less than 90mins is not required.

You had a tea party in response to 24-50mins.

Oh.. the info seems to have changed since I first read it.

I reckon iDave will be canonised, in the end.

He's got the patience for it.

[i]Post ride carbs is on the diet plan. Not sure why I'm being castigated here. [/i]

Molgrips.
Not castigated by STW standards.

But. You adhere to some parts of the plan, and wiggle on others.

But, but !. No one is holding a gun to your head, so please yourself is what I say.
( yes, I know you will, I'm just saying like )

You adhere to some parts of the plan, and wiggle on others

Or, to put it another way, I've tried to experiment and adapt to my personal situation, and learn in the process.

Stupid, I know.

Not sure why I'm being castigated here.

Molly - I'm being cruel to be kind.

TBH - if you just said... "I really don't follow the plan, it's not for me" then we'd have saved a whole load of space on the WWW.

[i]Or, to put it another way, I've tried to experiment and adapt to my personal situation, and learn in the process.

Stupid, I know. [/i]

Its olympic gold and all the other titles of your dreams, for you, TSY.

When you finally get as fast at moving as you are at posting.
😉

Apologies if this has already been asked, but I'm a bit late to the party.

So is this plan all or nothing, i.e. if you reduce your "insulinemic response" do you see a benefit in proportion to the reduction, or do you have to lower it beyond a certain threshold to see any benefit.

What I'm saying is can I cheat and still get something out of it, but less dramatic and/or over a longer period of time?!

You had a tea party in response to 24-50mins.

Proper coffee over keyboard moment there Jamie, thanks! 😀

bad timing there Molly, that won't win you any races 😉

Kev

What I'm saying is can I cheat and still get something out of it, but less dramatic and/or over a longer period of time?!

I asked that a while back in this thread.... no one seemed to know the answer.

Its been working for me, 111.5kg on New Years day, 98.6kg today. Also in that time I've also done a six week threshold booster training plan, few weeks rest now on week 3 of the time crunched cyclist experienced competitor plan. I had to get the fueling right pre-session but now that I've got that sussed, distances and power are looking good. Largest difference of course is now my power to weight ratio has had a massive boost due to loosing over 12kg so far.

ChrisS and FieldMarshall - I would imagine it's heavily dependant on what your diet is like at the moment.

@Chris

It's hard to say, as people are different when it comes to insulin response, what their current diet is like and whether they are currently a biffer. Also, the level of activity one does would also affect the impact of occasional cheating.

Unfortunately, trial and error have to be your tools if you decide to change things up a bit.

What I'm saying is can I cheat and still get something out of it, but less dramatic and/or over a longer period of time?!

Yes, you can. It's not all or nothing. Do some of it and you'll get some of the benefit.

However I've found that there are pitfalls and certain things to watch out for. Like I say, having something sweet can cause a domino effect (no pun intended) which makes you want more sweet stuff pretty badly - although it doesn't seem to do that if it's post workout.

Also, beware eating simple carbs right befor exercise as above - can stop you burning fat.

And with that, I'm off out for a run!

And with that, I'm off out for a run!

I'll get the dessert trolley ready for your return.

[img] [/img]

TSY

I was diagnosed gluten intolerant two years ago, so I essentially cut out bread, pasta, cereal literally overnight. The withdrawl symptoms were bad, but no where near as bad as i had felt in the 10 years prior to that.

I was also diagnosed dairy intolerant at the time too, so cut out milk, chesse and switched to goats yoghurt.

As I said on another idiet thread, I lost 22lbs in 3 weeks! Worrying at the time.

However, over the last year or so, i have started eating cows cheese and yoghurt again without issue and the odd bit of processed carb has snuck in, e.g. GF pasta once a week.

I would say that my diet was fairly good and fairly well matched to my metabolic type. But I am probably still 1 to 1.5 st over "my" ideal weight.

I dont race and am not looking to become a super athlete, but just want to eat as healthily as possible, but without becoming too obsessed with what I eat.

I do really enjoy cheese, yoghurt and berries, so was just wondering whether any gain will be worth the pain.

Molgrips,

I have experienced that "domino effect" first hand. I was training reasonably hard a month or so ago and was getting hungrier and hungrier after each session, felt lousy and generally went downhill. I then realised that I had been satisfying my hunger with high GI type foods, switched back to mostly protein and hunger/fatigue went away.

Thanks for the advice. I think i'll sneak in a bit of dairy/fruit as a post exercise meal.

eating sweets or high sugar content food makes you crave more because sugar addictive. it's that plain and it's that simple.

Kev

amazed how complicated people make this

[i]amazed how complicated people make this [/i]

Some of the conributors here have too much time and too little work to do.
😉

its not complicated FFS! calories in vs calories out. zero/low carb. no twix's or mars 'refuel' drinks allowed. simples.

its not complicated FFS! calories in vs calories out. zero/low carb. no twix's or mars 'refuel' drinks allowed. simples.

are tomatoes and porridge allowed?

What about parsnip and sweet potato? 😉

What about tzatziki? In or out?

Shhhhh

#toocutetobeDD

What happens on ****, stays on ****.

[i]after each session, felt lousy and generally went downhill[/i]

Yeah, that'll be something to do with that thing you call exercise.

Has anyone stopped to wonder.
If you didn't feel [i]lousy[/i] after an amount of time exercising.

Would you stop ?.

When would you stop ?.

How else is your body going to indicate to you, that its suffering and that its had enough ?.

Exercise.
Enjoy yourself.
But, afterwards, you will / should, feel tired.
Embrace this also, rest, your body will recover anyway.
Your body will recover as it has a personally signed order from nature herself.
To keep you alive.
Left to its own devices and without having tons of sugar crammed into it.
your body will do this very well.

i'll answer this one iDave, dont worry, i've read the internet so know all there is to know.

tomatoes are a sin.
porridge is made of baby porries, do you have no heart?!?!
parsnip and sweet potatoes taste awesome, of course they're not allowed.

tzatziki is a made up word, you're banned

Christ I'm going to do some exercise in about 2 hours and I really don't know what to eat when, how, why?

I've got a 'nana and a nature valley bar. I've got a load of dried nuts to and some soreen in the boot of my car I think. Pretty sure I've got some energy gels left from the weekend too. Shall I eat them all, now, in a minute, after, help meeee.

Exercise.
Enjoy yourself.
But, afterwards, you will / should, feel tired.

What happens on ****, stays on ****.

[i]its not complicated FFS! calories in vs calories out. zero/low carb. no twix's or mars 'refuel' drinks allowed. simples. [/i]

And the days off ?????????
🙄