[Closed] iDave Diet Joinee

Yes, Molgrips. And?

Easy on the nuts metalheart - they can very quickly sabotage weight loss, I've been there. Donm't have more than a couple of modest handfuls a day imo.

I've eaten well today, plenty of slow carb food but I still feel hungry. My problem on this diet is eating a lot and still feeling hungry yet not at the same time.

Yes, Molgrips. And?

Well, it seems a bit odd that you are citing what you've seen people eat as evidence in an argument against someone who trains top athletes for a living. Doesn't it?

Where does it say that carbs are not permitted or not recommended on the plan in general?

are you getting confused between complex and simple carbs?

Did you know David Millar used to drink a litre of coke after every ride? at least i think it was him.

Where does it say that carbs are not permitted or not recommended on the plan in general?

here:''No [b]white [/b]carbs

It says no white carbs, there are other kinds. You can (and indeed probably should) eat as many of those other kinds as you like.

Edukator - Member
The iDave diet as used here by biffers
"Biffers"? I don't think that's a compliment.

Edukator, at just under 100kg (after a week) whatelse would you call me, portly? According to bmi I'm now just >< shy of obese (which according to that measure last week I was). I reckon that I'm at least 15kg overweight,

I have been eating potatoes, bread and pasta and I put on weight.

What do you suggest I do, carry on like before (which I know that didnt work)?

Would seeing what people eat really be passed off as evidence? I'm not convinced.

The iDave diet as used here by biffers...

Hey now! We're right here, guy!

... isn't and never has been for elite level endurance athletes....

I assume you haven't seen Molgrips sprinting. Like shit off a lubed up shovel.

Easy on the nuts metalheart

Don't worry I won't get near a m&s for another week... 😛

I've found a new weight loss catalyst.

Hot yoga. 90 mins of exercise in 40 deg heat and I've lost 3lb. Just like that.

Where can I get an interview for training Olympic teams?

For those who think that bread, rice etc are better than sugar, check out the GI tables. There's not much in it. All the white carbs are pretty high.

[url= http://www.weightlossresources.co.uk/diet/gi_diet/glycaemic_index_tables.htm ]This page[/url] has rice at 98, white bread at 70 and Coke at 63. WIN!

todays menu from a confirmed idieter.

3 scrambled eggs with a mountain of mushrooms.
1 pack of kippers mid morning
1 mixed bean salad with a bit of chorizo thrown in.
handfull of mixed seeds
half a chiken, broccoli, sugar snaps, green beans and carrots.

and i love it to bits.
2 stone off in 4 weeks......whats not to like 8)

[b]No[/b], because as im sure you are aware, iDave also recommends: ''Unlimited
vegetables Unlimited legumes;
lentils,chickpeas,butter beans etc''

Oh yeah chorizo, forgot about that. I should get some to go with the beans I've got soaking tonight.

This was getting really boring. Thanks to Ton for bringing it back, well done on 2 stone very impressive 😀

As for some of you, you should get a hobby. I hear riding bikes for fun is fantastic.

I wish I were out on my bike, but what with work and having to look after kids that hasn't worked out today. Thanks for rubbing it in!

ton - edukator has a better plan for you mate

he's helped loads of [s]biffers[/s] fatties lose weight.

Yes, Molgrips. And?

So three units of red to dull the hunger, Metalheart. Wonderful diet this.

Jog down to Mc Donalds, buy a big Mac, enjoy it and jog back. Get up early and go for an hour's walk before breakfast then enjoy your breakfast, how about marmite on toast washed down with a glass of orange juice?

Being a coach is one way to make a living, coming up with a selection of things to cut out so all will be wonderful seems to be a prerequisite for commercial success. How many cut-this-or-cut-that diets have you seen over the year in the women's magzines and cycling teams. In my case enough to figure that the next one is probably no better than the last one to have been discreditted.

I've followed the fashions myself, "régime dissocié scandinave" like Ron Hill and Bernard Hinault - possibly a small gain on efforts around 2 hours but with the risk of feeling fatigued on the day due to training when starved mid week. Paleodiet (which seems to be much like iDave - feel free to contradict me pointing out differences, iDave) - OK for everyday life but training volumes were compromised by lethargy and poor recovery.

So now I just merrily eat and drink, in moderation, or at least in relation to how active and hence hungry I feel, which I reckon is far better advice than any diet sheet or cutting out grains.

Any time x I have booked tomorrow off work to go for a ride in the Peak.
It will be very slow with plenty of stops on the tops to take in the views as I have a bit of a head cold.

Edukator, jog to McDonald's? It's chuffin 7 miles away! Plus I hate mcd's loathe some stuff.

Currently walking between 35 and 50 miles a week. I've been getting up early (5.45am that early enough?).

4 units in 3 days, hardly drowning my sorrows is it? How much alcohol have you had btw?

I'm forgetting the question about recommending or not recommending carbs, could you ask it again, please?

Don, have you ever tried eating enough vegetables (not forgetting we're excluding potoatoes) to fuel up for even a sporty weekend? Personally I end up bloated, farting, stopping behind hedges regularly when running and soon run out of energy.

Why is it that on this forum people I never met and definitely never mated with call me "mate" when I disagree with them?

"Being a coach is one way to make a living, coming up with a selection of things to cut out so all will be wonderful seems to be a prerequisite for commercial success. "

You know less about coaching than you do about nutrition then.

And I wasn't referring to you as 'mate'

Why is it that on this forum people I never met and definitely never mated with call me "mate" when I disagree with them?

Because they are to polite to call you a w*&$££?

one thing, more than anything else that i like about the idiet/primal plan.
it has stopped me eating man made shyte, stuff with a ingrediant list as long as your arm.
also, i have hardly any recycling to do now, no packaging and boxes and plastic wrappers.

[s]idave[/s] god is good........... 😆

In my case enough to figure that the next one is probably no better than the last one to have been discreditted

Well there are dozens and dozens of people reporting good weight loss, great energy levels and good sustainability. I can't see where this is going to be discredited. This isn't a women's magazine, is it?

Why are you being such a pillock? Are you saying we should not do the iDiet? Are you saying we should eat plenty of normal food and exercise and we'll all look like you? Because that is absolutely guaranteed 100% not true. If that's all you've got to offer then great, thanks, don't call us.

[b]Don, have you ever tried eating enough vegetables[/b] (not forgetting we're excluding potoatoes) to fuel up for even a sporty weekend? Personally I end up bloated, farting, stopping behind hedges regularly when running and soon run out of energy.

3 glasses of Jurançon after the race on Sunday, nothing since, Metalheart. I'll probably open a bottle on Thursday that will last the weekend then have a few glasses after the race.

Seven miles will soon be an easy jog if you keep walking that far. If you lose weight I reckon it'll be down to being aware of what you're eating, stopping when no longer hungry, and the determination to walk the weight off that will be the reason rather than the type of carbs you're eating.

also, i have hardly any recycling to do now, no packaging and boxes and plastic wrappers

Funny I've found the opposite, lots of chick peas tins and trimmings/parings off the veg....

Seven miles will soon be an easy jog if you keep walking that far. If you lose weight I reckon it'll be down to being aware of what you're eating, stopping when no longer hungry, and the determination to walk the weight off that will be the reason rather than the type of carbs you're eating.

Educator, but it's starting the idiet that's made me more aware of what im eating. You are right in that's it's only part of it. Walking is the easiest thing I can incorporate into my daily work routine (it's 6 miles each way, when I don't have to take the car for work). Once I'm down in weight enough to not destroy myself I'll be trying to run home some times too.

Jamie - Member

... isn't and never has been for elite level endurance athletes....
I assume you haven't seen Molgrips sprinting. Like shit off a lubed up shovel.

lol

Chick peas. Why not just be honest about the strategy and take laxatives? 😉

You were indeed refering to Ton not me when you used "mate", iDave. I apologise for misreading and taking umbrage.

Why are you being such a pillock?

I'm suggesting eating in moderation (or in relation to your level of activity) and exercising regularly is a better way to stay trim than cutting out certain types of carbohydrates.

I'm against generous amounts of grains, pasta, rice, potatoes etc. Yeah. Very much so. Exception would be in the first main meal after a long hard session, but there are much better choices.

This is the crux of where iDave and I diverge. As you've listed four carbs to avoid could you list four of the best carbs pre race (or before a day out in the mountains) in your opinion please, iDave?

As you've listed four carbs to avoid could you list four of the best carbs pre race (or before a day out in the mountains) in your opinion please, iDave?

If you look carefully, I reckon the answer is already in his diet sheet...

If you look carefully, I reckon the answer is already in his diet sheet...

"I'm suggesting eating in moderation and exercising regularly is a better way to stay trim than cutting out certain types of carbohydrates."

What are you basing this on other than your opinion? What can you tell us about how carbs are metabolised that make you think they aren't involved in fat storage?

But what do I know eh?..........

>
Dr Tim Noakes, leading authority on endurance physiology, Sports Physician, Exercise Physiologist and Discovery Health Professor of Exercise and Sports Science at the University of Cape Town and Sports Science Institute of South Africa, Cape Town, South Africa

"It is clear to me now that carbohydrate intake is the factor driving the obesity/diabetes/ heart disease/ metabolic syndrome epidemic globally.

I have lost 15kg of fat (looks like I have lost no muscle) by switching from a “healthy” high carbohydrate diet to an “unhealthy” one comprising 55-60% fat, 30% protein and 5-10% carbohydrate (about 80g CHO per day) diet. Thus I have proved that my body fat mass is inversely related to the fat content of my diet – the less fat I eat, the fatter I become.

I am also running faster than I have for 20 years and my body shape looks identical to pictures I have of myself when rowing for my University 40 years ago at age 22.

The advice that we should reduce the fat in our diet and replace it with carbohydrate might just be the single greatest public health disaster of the past century (since it has led to the global obesity epidemic)."
>

I knew it!!! Reading AND thinking!!! 👿

It's OK DS, I can tell you what to think. Just send a cheque to deadly.

Pesetas OK?

Si senior

His diet sheet if apparently aimed at "biffers". I'm interested in what iDave suggests for active people (or even athletes) - I don't think listing four vegetables is giving away a vital trade secret. I'm interested enough in nutrition to try anything several times to see if it works for me. Chick peas, aubergines, swedes and turnips are out because I can't sleep with stomach ache but I'll try almost anything else.

Well 3 hours before a 78 mile hilly sportive on Sunday I had an omelette with chorizo, spinach and butterbeans - as did The Southern Yeti. Then nothing but 500ml water until 90 mins into it, then 2 gels and an energy bar and 500ml of an 8% carb drink. Finished in 4'26" averaged just shy of 18mph, rode solo for all but 5 miles of it. Had recovery drink after, then a full English. Will use similar strategy for a half ironman in May. If you take simple carbs just before an event like that you switch off fat metabolism and it's very hard to switch it back on, same if you take them too early into it.

Si senior

Oh and Edukator - your thoughts on Tim Noakes please? Is he wrong and if he is, why is he?

Apart from "because I saw a thin cyclist eat pasta"

If Tim Noakes has lost 15kg then it's not surprising he's running faster. He doesn't say how far he can run or at what pace.

How did such a well-qualified nutritional expert get 15kg overweight in the first place? He's allowed to use himself as an example but I'm not despite the fact my weight hasn't varied much in the last thirty years. 66/67kg at the end of the summer and 68/69kg at the end of the Winter for 1m74.

The advice that we should reduce the fat in our diet and replace it with carbohydrate might just be the single greatest public health disaster of the past century (since it has led to the global obesity epidemic)

And I supose portion size has nothing to do with it. And he's assuming people really have reduced fat consumption which seems highly unlikely. That really does seem a bizarre source to quote in support of your views, iDave.

I'm now struggling to discern whether you're a ****ing brilliant troll or a smug tool.

And I supose portion size has nothing to do with it.

I reread that three times though and you've diefinitely aimed it at me, Molgrips. You've also adopted your usual strategy of inventing things I've said but haven't.

I called you a pillock because you're acting like one. You come across as thinking you know more than a professional coach based on no evidence at all. If not, then you really need to work on your forum communication skills.

In fact, you did say you thought your approach was better than iDave's, despite the weight of anecdotal evidence on here, a fair bit of scientific evidence available if you google and a TON more anecdotal on blogs and the like. You haven't presented any evidence beyond your study with sample size of two non-representative subjects. Struggling to see how that is not pillocky behaviour.

He's allowed to use himself as an example but I'm not

You must be massively missing the point.

We're not saying 'you will definitely get fat if you eat lots of white carbs'. This is obvioulsy not true as we all know people who stay skinny and eat this stuff.

What we are saying is, IF you are already overweight, or even a bit fatter than you'd like, there is an approach that works very well for a lot of people that you might like to try.

Noakes is an example of how this has worked. It's a valid example because he was already overweight and lost the weight. You are not a good example because you were not already overweight.

You must accept that some people do not gain weight very easily, and some do - regardless of diet.

Well on the usual pasta party the night before and müsli four hours before the start:

Last weekend: Pyrenea Triathlon. Run 18km on the plain, bike 35km up to the ski resort then ski up and down the pistes (+1800m total). 31/189 3rd V2. Madame was 5th scratch woman and 1st Vet.

Three weeks ago: Luchon Triathlon. Run 7km around Luchon, bike around Luchon then up to Superbagnères (+1150m), ski up and down an bit. 21/80 3rd V2. Madame was 3rd scratch woman and 1st Vet.

By simple carbs do you mean "sugar" or "grains, pasta, rice etc.? Because there wasn't much sign of not being able to burn fat in those two races after eating mainly grains. (if you find the split times you'll note I was relatively stronger on the skis than than the run)

Because there wasn't much sign of not being able to burn fat in those two races after eating mainly grains

Again, sample size of one tells us nothing. We know many people can eat all the grains they want and have no trouble being fast and thin. This doesn't help the rest of us though does it?

You are quite right though in that I should not use the term 'simple carbs' when referring to pasta, bread, potatoes etc. Fast carbs would be more appropriate as they have a high GI and an even higher GL I would expect.

We agree that a sample size of Tim Noakes also tells us nothing then.

iDave's pre-sportive meal seems to have worked for him just as my müsli worked for me. My events were shorter in time and I started drinking diluted grape juice as soon as I got on the bike on both events. American army research suggests you can start feeding from about an hour into exercise with no risk of insulin spikes or blood sugar drops.

Waiting 90min on just water seems a long time to go unless your work rate is very, very low (touring rather than racing). Why dig into glycogen reserves when your stomach could be proving the blood sugar?

We agree that a sample size of Tim Noakes also tells us nothing then

Not really. It suggests a good way of solving a problem that many of us face.

You have never faced that problem, so your experience is not helping us solve it.

It's like having Prince William telling us about how to make ends meet.

Why dig into glycogen reserves when your stomach could be proving the blood sugar?

Cos apparently it stops your body using fat, which would be advantageous for many reasons I suppose during a long event.

Edukator - please stop with your distracting trolling. We still haven't sorted this out...

Pre-workout - coke...

Cos apparently it stops your body using fat

Yeti, I won't have pre-workout cokes any more...

Good boy. Have a biscuit. Oh.

What the hell are we going to talk about today then?

On the subject of coke, I would have thought the caffeine content acting as a diuretic could be an issue?

caffeine is good for stimulating fat burning and electrolytes shut down urine output

electrolytes shut down urine output

I'm guessing these aren't present in coke?

I'm guessing these aren't present in coke?

...like HCFS and salt? 😈

Edit: [url= http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/sports-nutrition-is-coca-cola-an-effective-sports-drink-713 ]Relevant[/url].

[i]On the subject of coke, I would have thought the caffeine content acting as a diuretic could be an issue? [/i]

What would concern me would be the salt content.
Were I to drink Coke.
Fortunately for me, I never really took to fizz.
It never seemed to have a thist quenching effect on me, ??.

I've been reading, catching up, and I'm not surprized at how the thread has progressed since a certain contributor, decided to contribute.

A few observations.
Some folk seem to be suffering with " chronic cardio "

Grain derived products such as bread and cake may taste good.
But how much real nutrition does a person receive, from eating grains.

Molgrips.
If you really do stop taking pre-exercise carbs.
I'd be interested to see how that works out for you.

I've been reading, catching up, and I'm not surprized at how the thread has progressed since a certain contributor, decided to contribute.

A few observations.
Some folk seem to be suffering with " chronic cardio "

One of them's got to be me 🙂

What would concern me would be the salt content.

😐

Some folk seem to be suffering with " chronic cardio "

TSY!

Im sooo glad I have a busy day today... folks, have fun chewing the fat 😛

Kev

chewing the fat

Brilliant!

Jamie - I don't actually do that much cardio. 😐

[i]One of them's got to be me[/i]

I wasn't thinking of you TSY.
In my universe, you are [i]special[/i]
As is Jamie.
😉

Kev.
Don't fear the fat.
Fat is, [i]in ![/i]

That's just the sort of thing someone who does too much Cardio WOULD SAY!

Oh shit, I'm trapped in my own addiction.

I'm going to go for a run to reflect on these accusations.

[i]accusation[s]s[/s][/i]

I'm not accussing you of being CC, TSY.
🙂

One of them's got to be me 🙂

None of them will be me 🙂
/Looks up what Chronic cardio actually is

Symptoms include -

“exercise induced castration”

😯

I'm not accussing you of being CC, TSY

Call me paranoid, but... 😛

I sometimes find that I have to train simply because I have accidentally eaten a load of carbs after dinner.

Does that mean that I can't ride them off with an interval session and the only options are sloth or suicide?

Ok then.

Questions.

What level and duration of exercise, running and cycling, does one have to do before allowing simple carbs post and pre?

For example. I go for a 40m ride @ 18mph. Does this warrant anything extra afterwards?

..or, I run 10m at a pace of 7:30....does this warrant anything post workout? If so, what?

What level and duration of exercise, running and cycling, does one have to do before allowing simple carbs post and pre?

Isn't this is the diet sheet?

I need a copy of the latest one actually as I was singing it's praises to some ladies last night.

Isn't this is the diet sheet?

I am going....* insert clap of thunder*...OFF-SHEET!

Whilst I think the iDave diet makes a lot of sense (and need to get back on it :p ) I am a bit surprised about waiting 90 minutes into an event before you start taking on carbs but I guess it depends whether the goal was to perform to the best of your ability or to treat it as a training event and try and maximise fat burn/calorie loss. If the former I'd have to agree with Edukator that 90 mins is too long if you're exercising at a reasonable intensity - you're going to be exhausting your glycogen stores at that point and given the delay of digesting/processing carbs + it's hard to take on 90g an hour anyway and you're constantly playing catch-up. Surely it makes more sense to start taking on the carbs after 60 minutes so you're remaining glycogen provides a buffer whilst you process the new carbs?
Or is the point that you are extending your stores beyond 90 minutes by converting stored fat via gluconeogenesis from the start in which case that's interesting although still not sure I'd want to wait 90 minutes...

..or, I run 10m at a pace of 7:30....does this warrant anything post workout? If so, what?

Thanking God for the Miracle in my case 😀

For those still eating the slow carb way here is a a recipe for home made chorizo I have been using, really good for quick snacks, breakfast etc
http://www.rivercottage.net/recipes/tupperware

Duh duh duhhhrrr!

You're a maniac!

Thanking God for the Miracle in my case

Quiet you! I know you are are quick, and barefoot? So stop self deprecating 8)

What level and duration of exercise, running and cycling, does one have to do before allowing simple carbs post and pre?

@jamest

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