[Closed] iDave Diet Joinee

Ian - have you got the Spinal(Power)Tap edition? 5 is definitely the limit.

No No, No No No No, No No No No, No No There's No Limit!

[img] [/img]

explain how your body is in the minority

I'm a sprinter. At school I cleaned up at 100/200/400m. Even then there were only a couple of other lads who could compete, everyone else was miles behind.

Most cyclists I speak to say they were rubbish at sprinting and into distance events at school.

No No... No No No No... No No No No.. No No There's No Limit!

FIFY.

Does the 310 have first beat? http://www.firstbeat.fi/en/training-effect

MOlly - Usain Bolt often eats a Maccy D's before an event so for your sprinting you're proabably doing the right things.

I was rubbish at sprinting at school, mind you I was rubbish at distance too 🙂

I'm a sprinter. At school I cleaned up at 100/200/400m. Even then there were only a couple of other lads who could compete, everyone else was miles behind.

[i]I'm a sprinter. At school I cleaned up at 100/200/400m. Even then there were only a couple of other lads who could compete, everyone else was miles behind.[/i]

Aye !, I was a sprint king at my schools.

IIRC, at around 14 / 15yrs I did the 100 in 12s.
No training, whatever, whatsoever.

Frustratingly, when invited to join the atheltics team, the swim team, whatever.
I was forced to decline.

I could have been...... yeah, an also ran.

Oh, hang on !
😆

[i]My question was simply: is it an all or nothing effect (follow the diet to the letter or see little or no effect), or does following it partially result in a partial effect. What does the dose-response curve look like? [/i]

Well clearly my body is different to yours but I have been following the diet but not 100% as I still take a splash of milk in my coffee. I'm not sure all of the falafels I'm munching are 100% compliant either.

However, I have dropped approx 4kg over the past 4 weeks and the only exercise has been my short commute to work each day and rides on weekends. Nothing extra than usual for me.

I'm pleased with a the weight loss, purely from changing my diet, so far and if I want to loose a bit more I'll ramp up the exercise, which I expect I'll do anyway as the weather improves and I spend more time outside.

Plus side for me is I love red wine and the types of foods you are recommended to eat. Never been a huge fan of fruit but love veg, beans, pulses etc and grilled lean meats and fish.

[i]I'm a sprinter. At school I cleaned up at 100/200/400m. Even then there were only a couple of other lads who could compete, everyone else was miles behind.[/i]

Doesn't this sort of depend on the type of school you went to and the competition you were put up against? 😀

Doesn't this sort of depend on the type of school you went to and the competition you were put up against?

He was probably sprinting for his county.

Does the 310 have first beat? http://www.firstbeat.fi/en/training-effect

Dunno.
Googles.
Yes, but..
[url] http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2010/11/how-calorie-measurement-works-on-garmin.html [/url]

Nevertheless the point still stands that I'm 3.8 better than than awesome 🙂

don't have the cheat days

thats quite a statement for me.
as someone thinking very strongly about taking on the iDave plan, I have an instruction to eat what I want for 1 day per week, and that this is VERY important.
I havent yet found an explanation as to why this is important.

If you (iDave) are not partaking in the 'free' day, could you please explain why.

Is there somewhere I can obtain more detail as to the science behind the iDave diet? as id like to be confident in explaining how it works when under scrutiny.

I'm a sprinter. At school I cleaned up at 100/200/400m. Even then there were only a couple of other lads who could compete, everyone else was miles behind.

I was the best fighter in my class between primary 5 and 7.

Why are you trying to force your body into marathon running then?

Well MTBing is fun, which is why I started it. I would love to hit the velodrome but despite trying to find out I've got no idea how to do it. Plus it needs a new bike.

Doesn't this sort of depend on the type of school you went to and the competition you were put up against?

The point is that only what, 5-10% of us were anything like competitive at sprinting. I'm not saying I'm the greatest sprinter, our school wans't that good. I seem to remember 11.2s and 23.5s aged 15-16.

I was the best fighter in my class between primary 5 and 7.

I'd've still robbed you of your marbles. Maybe not Molly though.. he'd have run away.

"If you (iDave) are not partaking in the 'free' day, could you please explain why"

Because I'm not over weight.

I have the odd cheat meal, usually after a log hard training session.

If you (iDave) are not partaking in the 'free' day, could you please explain why.

I havent yet found an explanation as to why this is important.

2 reasons as far as i can tell

it gives you a day to look forward to

it shocks your metabolism

so im more confused.
[b]how[/b] will the binging on crap [i]help[/i] me to lose weight? (my priority goal)

it shocks your metabolism

in what way is the metabolism shocked? ''oh goody here's some nice sugary food, lets...lose weight?''

science please

This is covered in the Four Hour Body I believe.

[i]I havent yet found an explanation as to why this is important[/i]

My impression is that while on iDave diet, you have now sussed your body's fat making system and can get a grip on how to avoid putting on more weight and also getting rid of what you don't need.

But !, if you persist with low GI only, I think your body can switch to something like [i]Famine mode[/i] which moves the goal posts.

So, if every 7 - 10 days you do a carby day, whether your thing is bread, fruit, cheese, whatever.
Then your body doesn't switch to its Famine mode, and you can continue to adjust your body weight down to about 12 percent BF.
Mostly through diet, but you should always exercise too.
Its the way we were made ( most of us ).
😉

Furthermore, once I reached a better body weight.
I could shift slightly to a tiny bit like Primal, where once you're comfortably lean.
You just eat differently to before, forever.

It also counters the tendency to limit calories, which some people subconsciously do, which is not a good way to lose fat.

Its the way we were made ( most of us ).

😀

science please

[i]It also counters the tendency to limit calories, which some people subconsciously do, which is not a good way to lose fat[/i]

Here, Here !.
One of the best parts of the iDave diet.
You maintain sensible, proper, portion sizes.

🙂

Have you actually thought about trying to see what happens rather than relying you read.
Salesman's dream.

Ive lost over 70 lb recently, and am constantly looking for new motivation in order to help shift the remaining surplus.
I like to know what im about to embark on and gauge the chances of success before I take the plunge.
But thanks.

It also counters the tendency to limit calories, which some people subconsciously do, which is not a good way to lose fat

Here, Here !.
One of the best parts of the iDave diet.
You maintain sensible, proper, portion sizes.

I didnt see the bit about portion size, how much emphasis is there on calorie counting (if any)?
I know modern thinking is leaning toward debunking calories all together, but its very hard not to focus on calories having previously suceeded on a calorie controled diet..

I like to know what im about to embark on and gauge the chances of success before I take the plunge.
But thanks.

why? I like this semi live format. mostly.

I didnt see the bit about portion size, how much emphasis is there on calorie counting (if any)?

I like this semi live format. mostly.

IMO this thread has been a lot of fun today.

Thanks Molly et al.

[i]I didnt see the bit about portion size, how much emphasis is there on calorie counting (if any)?
I know modern thinking is leaning toward debunking calories all together, but its very hard not to focus on calories having previously suceeded on a calorie controled diet.. [/i]

Just follow the instruction in the Doc, if you want to.
I'd have expected that your initial Qs would centre around what foods and recipes people are enjoying.
Thats what most newbies ask.
Then you get types like Bagstard, who seem to be a bottomless pit of recipe recommendation.
His curry, Bhaji and keema peas from last week sounded very good.
And Ton has approved those recipes.
😉

I've been watching these diet threads with interest for some time but not contributing. If you provide your body with what it needs in the way of vitamins, proteins, carbs fibre etc., does it really matter what they're in? I just eat the convenience food I enjoy: Bread (lots of it), pizzas, müesli, bananas, kiwis, pasta (in large doses) beef, pork, cheese, chocolate (a 100gm bar a day). And I eat it when I feel hungry. I rarely eat any veg because I consider it animal fodder and prefer fruit. I eat between meals, I sometimes miss meals. In fact I do just about everything these threads say I shouldn't. The result:

[img] [/img]

Madame (her ski boot is broken BTW hence the odd stance and difficultly getting around the turn).

[img] [/img]

I'm the one wearing sandals

"does it really matter what they're in?"

Yes, it does funny enough. For many many reasons.

What's the relevance of the skier?

I assume you're slim under your big ski clothing, maybe you're very active, maybe you're less insulin sensitive, you mention skipping meals too.

However your thinking that all calories are created equal is a myth that more knowledgeable people/boffins than I would totally refute.

The skier eats the same as I do in slightly smaller quantities, isn't exactly fat as the pic shows and has been competitive at a high level for years.

Anyhow, sometimes an alternative view is useful, I've found trying to eat "properly" as in the "iDave" approach and found it counterproductive. It doesn't work for me.

Training when not fully fueled up is less effective and more likely to result in injury and fatigue. If you don't fuel up with easily digested carbs after a taining session you won't recover as quickly. So, eat, drink and be merry, train lots too and you won't get fat, and you might find yourself on the podium.

My favourite shop:
[img] [/img]

"Training when not fully fueled up is less effective and more likely to result in injury and fatigue. If you don't fuel up with easily digested carbs after a training session you won't recover as quickly."

I know, that's why the plan says to take carbs during and after intensive sessions. Did you actually read it or just pick out the bits that suited you?

iDave - Member
It also counters the tendency to limit calories, which some people subconsciously do, which is not a good way to lose fat.

Puts hand up: this I guess is me. I've been cutting back but telling myself its that I'm cutting out the crap (snacks) and being hungry helps me make proper meals for a change.

I'm not exactly limiting my portion sizes really and tend now to have an 'extra' half helping of whoever I've just made...

So I should be eating more???

more than what?

you should eat enough not to be hungry

I'm saying eat carbs all the time in generous quantities not just after intensive training sessions. Do you agree with that, iDave? I do something every day but intensive things only every couple of weeks. Only half an hour swim today, I still munched half a bar of chocolate and a banana on the ride home though.

Maybe not Molly though.. he'd have run away

That stood me in good stead when I was a kid 🙂

So, eat, drink and be merry, train lots too and you won't get fat

Sigh.. here we go again.. the annoying prick who thinks that just because he's not fat then everyone else can do the same thing and get the same result.

If you've really been reading the diet threads you'd realise that not everyone's made the same way. I ate, drank, was merry and exercised a lot - net result, 90kg. Not a biffer, but not slim enough.

(I expect you to assume here that I was filling my face with pies and cakes constantly and thinking a monthly bimble round the nearest trail centre was good training)

Don't make the mistake of assuming we're trying to tell everyone how to eat. The plan is one pretty effective way of eating that can produce weight loss and stability. It's not the only way, and not everyone needs to switch from more traditional styles of food to lose weight.

I'm saying eat carbs all the time in generous quantities not just after intensive training sessions.

That makes many people fat. If it doesn't do it to you, then great, you're fortunate.

"I'm saying eat carbs all the time in generous quantities not just after intensive training sessions"

The worlds leading authorities on sport and endurance performance would say that's incorrect. You may do that, good for you. You may think that because you do it and your slim friend does it then your thoughts on how we metabolise different food types is 'right'. You'll find that the people who are performing at the highest level in endurance sport are not doing as you do.

double post

An ironman winner lived in my house for six weeks to benefit from the climate and training conditions, I know exactly what he ate. His day started with the biggest bowl we had in the house filled with mûesli covered in half a pack of cheap sweetened yoghurts. It continued with what we were eating but even larger quantites of pasta. You'd be hard pushe to find a higher level endurance athlete. Madame, the lady in the pic is an ex-French winter triathlon champion BTW.

Sorry, what does that prove about your thoughts on how we metabolise different food types? You know a triathlete who eats muesli so insulin acts differently on carbs than would appear to be the case? Skier eats bread and is slim so leading pro cycling teams should re-think their nutrition?

EDIT: I see you haven't even read the iDiet instructions before looking for scientific evidence.

Ive been trying to establish exactly what diet information there is, it appears theres more than ive already been offered.

Oh, 🙄

Edukator.. for the 50th time.. we're all different. Michael Phelps eats tons of crap and is not fat, so what?

You're not adding anything useful to this thread.

You'd be hard pushe to find a higher level endurance athlete.

I think iDave knows some.

So the iDave diet is what leading pro cycling teams do? I think not. If you have the nutritional plan for a pro cycling team then post it up.

Ever heard of "4:2:1"? We don't stick to it religiously but it was the basis of French olympic squad nutrition years back and suits us fine. I have paper copy soemwhere.

4 parts carbs
2 parts protein
1 part fat

In calorie terms. The protein is then divided between meat, vegetable and dairy proteins and the fat between dairy and vegetable. Plenty of scope for bread, chocolate and yum, yum.

iDave promotes carb intake before and after strenuous activity. Im sure an IM counts as strenuous.

(struggling to think of French olympic champions..)

Ever heard of "4:2:1"? We don't stick to it religiously but it was the basis of French [b]olympic squad[/b] nutrition [b]years back[/b] and suits us fine

Highlighted the important points for you.

iDave promotes carb intake before and after strenuous activity

er, no he doesn't.

I suppose you've joined the happy band of commentators who post "facts" based on their own prejudice, but without having taken the time to read the source.

er, no he doesn't.

I suppose you've joined the happy band of commentators who post "facts" based on their own prejudice, but without having taken the time to read the source.

Sigh.. here we go again.. the annoying prick

This argument about knowing someone who did something different and still succeeded is the biggest load of bollox going, and by that i don't mean that i don't believe you, but it's anecdotal and doesn't substantiate a thing, where's your control?

Think pataphysically, Chutney. Don't eat too much chutney though, mostly fast sugar, now that will upset your insulin balance.

To train for an ironman you maintain a level of activity most would define as strenuous six days a week so why wouldn't carbs be the main source of calories every day, SlimJim? My friend averaged a half ironman a day for the time he was with us (edit a bit more in the pool and on the bike, a bit less on foot).

I used to do 12 000km on the bike, a couple of thousand on foot, a few hundred swimming (I'm a lousy swimmer) and a serious volume of X-C skiing through the Winter. Cutting carbs quickly resulted in grinding to a halt though fatigue, illness or minor injuries.

Creo que podría estar en lo cierto, Don Simon 😉

Now where's that bloody matador smiley....

"Cutting carbs quickly resulted in grinding to a halt though fatigue, illness or minor injuries."

iDave diet isn't based on cutting carbs. Just changing the type of carbs. Duh. You really don't know anything about it do you?

Also the French Olympic team don't use 4, 2, 1 and haven't done for a long time.

Still, keep reading the magazines.

By the way, one of the top ranked UCI world tour teams didn't have much pasta or muesli on show at their training camp - job opp there for you.

You do know that you can't complete an ironman fueled just by carbs don't you? And that taking carbs too close to the start will limit fat burning during?

job opp there for you.

😆

Finally I wrote many times in magazines and books about the importance of eating loads of carbs for endurance performance, and eating a low fat diet for weight-loss and guess what? I was wrong.

Well post it up then, iDave, especially the diet plans you have from pro cycling teams. If you are in favour of eating generous amouts of bread, müsli and pasta on a regular bassis (not just after intensive training) then I will agree I don't know about your diet and will leave the thread.

If you refer back to my early posts on the thread I make it clear that I consider bread, pasta and müesli an important part of nutrition. I am promoting their use as fuel for athletes who want to feel good, perform well and maintain their "poids de forme" (racing weight?). You seem to be against these foods. Sorry if I've misinterpreted, the debate can continue if I haven't.

iDave - Member
"Cutting carbs quickly resulted in grinding to a halt though fatigue, illness or minor injuries."

iDave diet isn't based on cutting carbs. Just changing the type of carbs. Duh. You really don't know anything about it do you?

the pwnage is strong with this one

Sarcasm, irony and mockery don't work in type as people have no idea what you really mean, iDave. Is ther eanything usefull in those two lines or would they best be ignored?

"I am promoting their use as fuel for athletes who want to feel good, perform well and maintain their "poids de forme" (racing weight?)"

Where are you promoting their use? Do you know how different carbs result in different insulin responses and what the consequences are for energy delivery and fat storage? If you don't WTF are you trying to argue for?

Who are your successes in either weight-loss or sports performance?

Well post it up then, iDave, especially the diet plans you have from pro cycling teams

I've never posted pro team info DS, it belongs to the teams. They paid for it see.

I don't think idave has said it's a non carb diet, just to stop eating certain carbs. I've done this for 5 weeks now and shifted 5 pounds, not great you might say in weight loss but that's not what I wanted, I'm happy with my weight but hate the feeling I get when eating stoge. I find the rules easy due to the fact I'm a chef and don't tend to eat rubbish anyway, but I've found since giving up anything sweet I've being fuelling up in a different way and that is eating more food, which my PT is happy about as I never eat enough. So more food equals less body fat, I'm happy at that.

Could you answer the questions in my previous post please, iDave:

"If you are in favour of eating generous amouts of bread, müsli and pasta on a regular bassis (not just after intensive training) then I will agree I don't know about your diet and will leave the thread." Well are you?

"If you refer back to my early posts on the thread I make it clear that I consider bread, pasta and müesli an important part of nutrition. I am promoting their use as fuel for athletes who want to feel good, perform well and maintain their "poids de forme" (racing weight?). You seem to be against these foods." Well are you for or against?

Think pataphysically, Chutney.

'Pataphysics isn't exactly going to help me decide what to have for my tea though is it? Is it big word tuesday?

Do you know what schizotypal means?

If you refer back to my early posts on the thread I make it clear that I consider bread, pasta and müesli an important part of nutrition.

I suppose you've joined the happy band of commentators who post "facts" based on their own prejudice, but without having taken the time to read the source

for
more
than
60
minutes,
take
on
board
30
grams
carbs
per
hour
during
the
exercise.

more
than
90
minutes,
take
on
board
30
grams
carbs
90
mins
before
the
session,
and
30
grams
per
hour
during
the
exercise.''

(cut/paste fail)

Fairly conclusive in my eyes that carbs are recommended on the plan, no?

Careful, you'll be getting the rolling eyes.

it appears bread, pasta and muesli in large quantities makes you argumentative. have an onion bhaji, edukator

I'm against generous amounts of grains, pasta, rice, potatoes etc. Yeah. Very much so. Exception would be in the first main meal after a long hard session, but there are much better choices.

So you answer my question - do you understand insulin responses to different types of carbs? You might be asked at your interview with the pro/olympic teams.

@iDave, The insulin part youre talking about,Is that part of the krebs cycle ?

Ever heard of "4:2:1"? We don't stick to it religiously but it was the basis of French olympic squad nutrition years back and suits us fine. I have paper copy soemwhere.

4 parts carbs
2 parts protein
1 part fat

Though as I understand Mark Allen (who's won the odd triathalon) follows

4 parts carbs
3 parts protien
3 parts fat

So carbs only make 40% of his diet. Seemed to work ok.

Fairly conclusive in my eyes that carbs are recommended on the plan, no?

So I have understood, and we disagree. I've seen some graphs of insulin responses to different types of carbs. They've convinced me to reduce my sugar intake but not grains, pasta, rice, potatoes etc. They also mean I favour avoine (porridge grains) in the morning (hence the müesli) but nibble little sandwiches on the bike during an effort. Potatoes being reserved for an eveing meal. You were talking about pro cycling teams, well I've seen pro cyclists sat around the table eating pasta and salad with my own eyes (and not long ago).

Challenging iDave is bound to create waves, CaptJon. The insults on the last couple of pages aren't from me. iDave is also remaining civil. He is not the only nutritional expert and there is no concensus among endurance atheltes that the iDave diet is the best as he implies.

The iDave diet as used here by biffers isn't and never has been for elite level endurance athletes in the form it has been given away here. But elements of it are very valid are are used. The last plan I wrote, just last week, was for a 2 x rainbow jersey holder.

I've seen pro cyclists eat pasta too. Can you base your argument on evidence based knowledge rather than what you've seen some people do? I've probably seen more pro athletes have meals than you have. Breakfast at an Olympic games is quite busy.

The iDave diet as used here by biffers

"Biffers"? I don't think that's a compliment.

"evidence based knowledge" so evidence as seen with my own eyes doesn't count, but yours does.

Keep up the guru work.

I once saw a pro rugby player drinking beer. Will drinking beer make me a 190cm, 110kg egg throwing athlete? 'kin huge he was too, I thought he was drinking halves until I got up close!! 😯
Edu, you still haven't answered my question.

If you could eat something that gave you the benefits of the bread, pasta and muesli but without the crap that offers no benefit, would you still eat the pasta, bread and muesli?

Edukator you do know he's a professional top level coach don't you?

I was going to come back with more arguing but it doesn't seem to be necessary.

more than what?

you should eat enough not to be hungry

Hmm, today it was 2 boiled eggs for breakfast, 0.5 litre of ratatouille/bean stew (I.e a flask full), 0.5 m&s £2 bag of mixed nuts (almonds/brazil/hazel/walnut), some peppered mackerel (75g?), 1/2 pepper and some peas. Glass of red (dulls the hunger).

Sunday was 2 boiled eggs and 2 big plates (5-6 ladles full) of lentil/split pea soup. Might have had a couple of carrots and .5 tub of hummus. 2 glasses red.

do I feel hungry? Yeah I guess I do. But not ravenous. It was not feeling hungry is what got me here in the first place!