[Closed] iDave Diet Joinee

I didn't just do base though.. I was given zone 2 only training workouts with 1 interval a week building up to 3 intervals a week in march.

double post

I didn't just do base either, but that's what happened. What you describe is the classic approach to cycle training.

TSY:

Edit - If I knew how to use the search function I'd find the thread that talked about your early days on the diet.

[url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/i-am-finally-on-the-idave-diet#post-2382498 ]Ahem.[/url]

molly..... you said:

For instance, I train for cycling, and for that I need to be lean[b], so the [u]weight loss is a side requirement of cycling training[/u].

[b]I have lost weight before by doing tons of low intensity riding and restricting calories[/b], but it was tough and took a loooooooot of hours. The new diet promises to be lots easier

goals changed since then?

Sorry not sure I understand what you are getting at Phil?

well you seem to be leaning away from the "for that I need to be lean" school of thought and focussing on power, but back then you we're pretty clear on the relationship between the two... in fact you seemed VERY focussed on shifting weight and the benefits that would bring to your riding 🙂 twas inspirational!

has power become more important than getting lean basically? i'm not trying to have a go, just trying to get a clearer picture of where you're coming from and how you're getting to where you want to be 🙂 I spin 2 mornings a week fueled only by a coffee (often haven't eaten anything since 2-3pm the day before other than an eccles cake in the evening) and i still go 100% whenever i'm being shouted at to do so. yeah its knackering, but thats the point innit 🙂

Disagree with being lighter to be more powerful/stronger/faster. Not everyone needs to be lighter to get PBs/have a better power to weight ratio - i'm a good example of this.

As for training Mol, i think you need to push much harder...you said on another thread you did KB squats with 24kgs? I squat 24kgs (sumo squats, 3 sets of 15) with my KBs and could do more reps or lift heavier KBs if i wasn't easing up on them for racing so you should be lifting way more than me to get faster/stronger. And as for your comment on my fb status about racing both days at the weekend and it beung too much to do well in - I set a new PB of 36kph for 58mins on Saturday (comfortable hr too). I felt great on Sunday and set out for a good result which i would have achieved if my bike hadn't broken 10km in. Since it broke and I was feeling strong, we then went out at did 60km of lakeland hills instead, sitting at 40kph on the flat. It can be done if you push hard - i make sure every session counts and has a goal/aim. I'm not meaning to have a go, I'm just saying that i think for some things, you can push harder than you think you can. You can also force your body to adapt to the exercise you want to be able to do....a year ago i'd have said i was an endurance rider, can't go flat on the fast and could climb well all day. Fast forward a year, i can sit at 35-50kph on the flat totally comfortably, i love short and hard races, not interested in endurance at all, and my climbing isn't as good as it used to be.

Btw, try beetroot juice. Minging but i'm 100% sure it works.

well you seem to be leaning away from the "for that I need to be lean" school of thought and focussing on power

Well, when I was 94kg it was clear that I had load of lard to shift. That went fairly easily, but now I seem to be struggling to shift much more. And I've discovered that there seems to be a bit of a tradeoff with me at least between max power and weight loss. So I dunno really.

yeah its knackering, but thats the point innit

Well there's a difference between feeling knackered cos you've worked to your maximum potential, and feeling knackered cos you're under-fueled. I've got a power meter, so when I am pushing as hard as I can and only developing 250W I know something's badly wrong. I don't know if doing that actually gives me any benefit, or what that might be. Is it better to fuel up a bit more and knock out 350W for the whole session? My legs would get more of a workout, but is that the kind of exercise I want?

DG - I squatted 24kg cos that's the biggest I have! Also it was down to the floor, I dunno what sumo squats are.

You can also force your body to adapt to the exercise you want to be able to do...

True, and my aim is XC racing, which needs great gobs of power for a relatively short amount of time. However it also needs light weight 🙁

Re beetroot juice - can I just eat borscht instead?

Have you thought about a few sessions of goading a carnivore, as it has a similar fitness profile to xc racing?

[url] http://tinyurl.com/dynmnny [/url]

underfuel and keep working until you can get back up to 350 without needing simple sugars? first few times spinning it killed me, and it still kills me, but i'm working harder with more power every time i go... conditioning i believe it might be known as 🙂

IanMunro - Member
Have you thought about a few sessions of goading a carnivore, as it has a similar fitness profile to xc racing?

http://tinyurl.com/dynmnny

Relevant!

[img] [/img]

😀

Anyway that food you posted isn't that different to what I eat.

I don't drink fizzy drinks. Ever.
I also regularly clock up your entire weekly exercise quota in a day.

As I said before. If it's about enjoyment alone. Do what you enjoy.

If it's to become a quicker rider. Lose weight.

Not everyone needs to be lighter to get PBs/have a better power to weight ratio - i'm a good example of this.

Dirty - I think that at a tiny size 8 you're not really on the same level here. I'm guessing that the couple of lb you gain is probably in functional muscles... not in fat?

I also regularly clock up your entire weekly exercise quota in a day.

You gonna take that, Molgrips?

Is it underfuelling or under/over resting Mol? I don't mean over training - lack of sleep, stress etc can hinder sessions as you'll know. I get round this by relying 100% on what my hr and hrv reading is. If it says i'm ok to train hard, then i do, even if i'm tired - i'll feel bags better after it and have a better session than i thought. The only exception to the rule is if my legs haven't recovered but the rest of me has - legs suffering from doms don't make for good intervals/sprints. I've also found that too much rest leaves me with dead and heavy legs so maybe you aren't doing enough between sessions as an alternative thought process to consider?

Sumo squats - wider than normal squats with feet turned out to 2/3 and 9/10 o'clock. XC racing is similar to crit racing then - we were sprinting at 50kph for short periods of time before settling back to anything from 34-45kph. Try standing starts, these have done wonders for my racing and speed. Also try standing starts then into a full on sprint for about 1 min, ease back very slightly for a few seconds and then jump again to go faster than you were sprinting before. These will kill your legs, make you nearly puke by the end but achieve results (IME)

Also, if i were you, i'd think of ditching the coke in favour of something else, especially the post ride coke... i use malt loaf before a training ride after work, if i need an extra boost, a little chocolate/coffee helps.

Yeti, i think its half fat, half muscle. 😕 This year i'm going for all muscle, no fat but i'm not sure how i'm going to do that! Ramp test in 2 days time...so instead of enjoying my interval session outdoors tonight, i have to rest and wait to sweat it out inside with a bucket next to me 😈

So does the iDave approach have benefits even if only followed partially e.g. reducing consumption of white carbs and increasing the consumption of meat and veg? Or is it all or nothing?

I'm thinking here more about general health than significant weight loss or performance improvement.

I'm thinking here more about general health than significant weight loss or performance improvement.

underfuel and keep working until you can get back up to 350 without needing simple sugars?

Well how long would that take? How much could I train my fat metabolism in a season, and would I gain more or less than if I concentrated on my overall power? Too many questions.

I also regularly clock up your entire weekly exercise quota in a day

You're single, child free and obsessed, so great. I do wonder why you're not quicker on a bike though given the amount of time you spend at it 🙂 Plus I wonder how hard you actually go during these efforts. Get a power meter.

If it's to become a quicker rider. Lose weight.

Or gain power - you must agree that is another way.

XC racing is similar to crit racing then

Hmm.. XC racing is (or should be) about 80% flogging your guts out and 20% descending flat out which is still quite hard work.

So does the iDave approach have benefits even if only followed partially

It should do.

"increasing the consumption of meat and veg"

Que?

Well how long would that take? How much could I train my fat metabolism in a season, and would I gain more or less than if I concentrated on my overall power?

i dunno, i'm just a psych nurse... might be worth getting some professional advice if you're serious about the goals you've set yourself?

a power meter wont win your races, but a 6pack will win you the unlimited sexual favours. that is a MEDICAL FACT.

might be worth getting some professional advice if you're serious about the goals you've set yourself

I have 🙂

You're single, child free and obsessed,

1/3 ain't bad. LOL at the other comment... I forget that you're pushing for the podium in all these races you're doing 😛
We still need to ride when you're not having problems with your forks, or go for a little road jaunt maybe?

Oh, and sod the power meter, my Garmin is grief enough.

Never giving up the dream, Yeti.

you have? then why not ask them these questions instead of posting them on here? iConfused

Or gain power - you must agree that is another way.

I'd have thought it depends on what distance you want to quick over. Greater power, greater weight, greater calorie burn, quicker fatigue. I'd imagine.

Cos ongoing consultancy costs a lot more than one-off..!

I'd have thought it depends on what distance you want to quick over. Greater power, greater weight, greater calorie burn, quicker fatigue.

Yep, hence choosing XC as a target rather than enduro races. I realised that I'm not suited to enduro and I don't have the time to train for it.

but a 6pack will win you the unlimited sexual favours. that is a MEDICAL FACT.

[i]Yep, hence choosing XC as a target rather than enduro races. I realised that I'm not suited to enduro and I don't have the time to train for it.[/i]

Ah well I've always imagined low weight, a good power to weight ratio, good vo2max and an enjoyment of crashing are the key components of xc 🙂

Cos ongoing consultancy costs a lot more than one-off..!

And I imagine it's a complete waist of money when they don't tell you what you want to hear?

I don't know why you think I am ignoring the coach advice?

It's just the way you come across on here Mol.

Ok...

So, I've read this post since page two, which is where I last [i]contributed[/i]

Firstly, FWIW, I will join the others here who have diss'd coke.
As for [i]proving[/i] its evilness.
Well, thats a game Coke like to play, in a similar fashion to the cig manufs and death from smoking.
You pays your money....
😉

As always, I'm happy to learn new things.
You may question WTF I'm doing here then, but whatever.

So, if someone is looking to increase strength.
Then you move slow and heavy, no ?.

[img] [/img]

As for administering fast carbs, pre-exercise.
I'd expect that if you're on a predominantly Low GI diet, then throwing too much sugar into the mix, is going to cause as much mayhem as it is raw fuel = power = speed ?.

Of more interest and possibly, relevance, is the post-exercise [i]fast[/i] carbs.
Which, it is claimed, aid recovery at the muscle level.
( If this is actually the case, I do not know the process )
Although, how doing this makes the individual FEEL, is another matter.
Which I would humbly suggest should take into account, actual AND percieved benefit/recovery being [i]experienced[/i] by the subject.

Also, while I'm boring your pants off.
I thought HIIT was to take place over short durations.
If we're talking intervals here,
Then running for an hour does sound correct.
Surely a handful of short sprints is going to elicit a better response ???.

Furthermore, I'd question whether going 100 percent for an hour is even possible, yet along advisable ?.
As has been mentioned earlier.
Chainganging exists for a reason.

Sensible answers to any of my Qs, are most welcome.
Thanks in advance.
🙂

I've just read through the last four pages, and i'm confused what you aims are at the moment mols. Can you re-state them?

Solo's back!!

And he's written a poem.

x x

It's just the way you come across on here Mol.

Yeah well.. I'm almost always mis-interpreted. I like to learn and develop not just follow instructions regardless. Unless I work with a coach constantly he won't know exactly how I feel and my exact requirements.

Furthermore, I'd question whether going 100 percent for an hour is even possible

Well of course, but 100% for an hour is a different pace than 100% for 10 seconds.

As for the running - that hour workout was my endurance session, I do intervals too.

As I recall MG followed the program given at the time it was given, though it was some time ago. I remember some amends were made to fit in with work/family etc. The program now 'may' be completely different, I don't know.

I like to learn and develop not just follow instructions regardless. Unless I work with a coach constantly he won't know exactly how I feel and my exact requirements.

a good coach tells you what to do and shouts at you when you're not doing it hard enough. #sextipsthatalsoapplytotraining

[i]And I imagine it's a complete waist of money... [/i]

<s****> 😛

Just out of interest Molly, what sort of positions do you get at the moment, top 5%, top 10% or top 20% ?

Kev

Furthermore, I'd question whether going 100 percent for an hour is even possible

Re recovery, I'm with Mol on needing faster carbs to help my legs recover but i'm training 5/6 days a week and or racing. I don't care whether its simply because i think it will or not, it works and that's all i care about. 🙂

As for moving slow and heavy Solo to increase power, i'd say in the gym (for translation to more power on the bike) its about being more dynamic ie jumping squats etc, and on the bike, its about standing starts and sprints. Can't help with the running aspect as all i did was endurance running.

? How much could I train my fat metabolism in a season

Well i did it in less than 5 months which involved 1hr base rides at a time.

Another guy on here Mulletus Maximus is now seeing the same coach and by all accounts has made big gains (also on idave)

I agree Dirty if you prefix "100% effort" with the word 'perceived'.

? How much could I train my fat metabolism in a season

Well i did it in less than 5 months which involved 1hr base rides at a time.

Another guy on here Mulletus Maximus is now seeing the same coach and by all accounts has made big gains (also on idave)

you forget yeti, a powermeter means you never have to perceive again....

[i]+1 for entirely possible, and longer too in my case as my first road race demonstrated[/i]

DGOAB.
Oops, you have pionted out my mistake.
I didn't quantify a time period.
You can go 100 percent for an hour ?....

I wasn't lecturing or disagreeing on the post-exercise [i]fast[/i] carbs.
I was asking - [i]( If this is actually the case, I do not know the process )
[/i]

[i]As for moving slow and heavy Solo to increase power, [b]i'd say in the gym (for translation to more power on the bike) its about being more dynamic ie jumping squats etc[/b], and on the bike, its about standing starts and sprints. Can't help with the running aspect as all i did was endurance running.[/i]

In that case, why is Mr Hoy bothering with moving all that weight with his legs ?.

[i]if you prefix "100% effort" with the word 'perceived'. [/i]

This ^^

you can certainly spend an hour at 100% of the effort that you can sustain for an hour.

Yay. Solo's back again!!

x x

I was going to point out that you had kindly posted a picture of Mr Hoy, I very much doubt he's doing explosive movements there!

with legs that size i bet his penis looks tiny.

and that children is why you shouldn't train too hard.

His requirements are a little different than most of ours.

Ok, how are we definining 100% max then? My max hr (pre ramp test) is/was 202. I averaged 194 and 190 for longer periods than an hour which puts me in the hardest hr zone. Clearly i couldn't ride at 202 for an hour, so the 194 average was as hard as i could go, hitting 202 for times and backing off.

Solo, i should have said IMO/E. I've been there with the slower and heavier weights type stuff. Now shaken it up to be much more dynamic = much better riding power than before.

I was going to point out that you had kindly posted a picture of Mr Hoy

I'm still not sure what Molly is training for 😕

"Ok, how are we definining 100% max then"

It doesn't mean anything. No idea why it was mentioned TBH.

[i]I was going to point out that you had kindly posted a picture of Mr Hoy, I very much doubt he's doing explosive movements there! [/i]

Agree.

However, he is moving heavy and slow to build muscle for that frame buckling strength he needs to totally mash those pedals.

Also, I would add that he doesn't appear to tolerating excess BF in his quest of his goals.

Personally, I think that pursuing a training regime which ignores possible performance gains from reduced weight and tolerating excess body fat, may not produce the easiest route to success.

But that doesn't mean you can't try.

In that case, why is Mr Hoy bothering with moving all that weight with his legs ?.

cus he's a track cyclist that needs to generate a lot of power from a standing start maybe?

we're all getting distracted avoiding the real issue, which is ignoring the OP and the original point of the thread and poking molly till he goes crazy or admits he probably shouldn't drink coke as part of a training plan for getting on the podium at XC races

Phil - I don't care about any of it anymore.

Solo's back!

I'm still not sure what Molly is training for

Looks like you'll be getting a race licence soon enough though! Once you've got that itch sportives won't scratch it for long 😀

Mustard - tell me about it! I was in a pack for maybe 5k pushing for 25 or so miles per hour... flipping loved it! Not got that much desire to be on the mtb at the minute at all.

can i have your bikes then yeti? mrsconsequence needs a bouncybike

Depends if you get that bondage stuff for your wedding Phil!

[i]It doesn't mean anything. No idea why it was mentioned TBH. [/i]

Sorry, I thought someone was claiming to go 100 percent for a prolonged duration ( not a short sprint ).
I may have misread.
If so, apologies.

[i]His requirements are a little different than most of ours. [/i]

The way I was reading the recent pages, was that you were not getting bogged down with reducing body fat, at the expense of increasing strength.

I was thinking that moving heavy, slowly would increase strength.
❓

I define 100% as as hard as you can go for that period of time. So that when you finish the session you are knackered.

Pretty hard to actually quantify though... I suppose what I was doing before was averaging the power achieved during a session and using that as my target plus a little bit each time.

Does anyone know anything about Garmin Training Effect?

Mine is often at 5.0. Which is what it defines as 'over-reaching' and therefore a maximum.

I think it's a bit of a gimmick but a session at 5.0 is normally quite tiring.

This reminds me of conversations i used to have with an obese workmate, who had loads of ideas of how to lose the weight, but wouldn't actually commit to any of them and she also thought she had a special sort of body that worked differently to everyone elses and so she needed to eat chips etc. she was not succesfull.

Not got that much desire to be on the mtb at the minute at all.

we're all getting distracted

Do you think you could be a bit more explicit in you understanding of what the iDiet is and how it will affect your health negatively?

Sigh, forgot I was posting on STW, should have anticipated the smart arse response...

So. The iDave diet has a bunch of rules about what to eat and what not to eat, the central theme appears to be to cut out things like dairy, fruit and simple/white carbs, replacing them with lean meat and veg. Apart from one day a week. I would imagine for a lot of people that represents a fairly dramatic change in eating habits. I can well believe that if followed rigorously it could have a correspondingly dramatic effect on someones weight, body fat % or whatever. My question was simply: is it an all or nothing effect (follow the diet to the letter or see little or no effect), or does following it partially result in a partial effect. What does the dose-response curve look like?

mustard, the point is there's a real risk of molly never admitting he shouldn't be drinking coke and in fact he should be drinking the juice from a can of chickpeas instead before and after riding

anybody giving up mtb and wanting to get rid of their 17"ish (medium)bouncy bike to a good cause AKA mrsconsequence let me know 😆

My question was simply: is it an all or nothing effect (follow the diet to the letter or see little or no effect), or does following it partially result in a partial effect. What does the dose-response curve look like?

it depends 🙂

For me, i followed it fairly strictly for 2-3 months. I now find my body has adapted somehow and (annoyingly for most) I can eat anything and stay lean. Pre idave i was 75kg and i'm now around 68kg and keep getting leaner (which isn't as good as it sounds as my GF has said my nice shoulders have gone after coming back from a majorca training camp)

Chris.
iDave diet was general, non-taylored, dietary advise / a suggestion for people with significant, excess, body weight.

IIRC, iDave released his suggestion just to help [i]" Biffers "[/i] as some on here put it.

Imo, iDave diet [i]MAY[/i] also serve as the entry point to a more specific diet.
To acheive a specific goal.
Or to be taylored in another way to suit the individual.

For me, it lead to looking at the dietary side of things more than the training and racing side of things.

If you were to extrapolate this.
Then you could be forgiven for thinking that lighter, via the iDave diet would result in faster....

[i]is it an all or nothing effect (follow the diet to the letter or see little or no effect), or does following it partially result in a partial effect. What does the dose-response curve look like? [/i]

Try that and let us know how you get on.

but wouldn't actually commit to any of them and she also thought she had a special sort of body that worked differently to everyone elses

Well my body type is in the minority amongst mtb racers it seems. And I do not eat chips and I am not fat.

I follow it pretty much as set out, I train hard on it, race on it, don't have the cheat days, use some simple carbs during and after 'some' training sessions and events, but not all. I feel healthy and have energy, recover well, and occasionally have a loaf of toast.

Well then I dunno what to do.

Mine is often at 5.0. Which is what it defines as 'over-reaching' and therefore a maximum.

I think it's a bit of a gimmick but a session at 5.0 is normally quite tiring.

Mine's normally at 11.
/Wanders off to look at the Garmin Connect website to find out what the real answer is.
Ah, looks like it needs HR.
The most recent one I've got with a HR is 8.8, which makes me beyond awesomeness from Garmin's perspective 🙂
The one previous was also 8.8, then I've got a 4.8, 8.8, 8.8, 8.8, 8.8,4.8 But I do give 110% which probably explains it 🙂

explain how your body is in the minority... iConfused as i thought i remembered you saying you had powerful big muscly legs/bum which meant you were naturally suited for stuff as you already had that power?

I now find my body has adapted somehow and (annoyingly for most) I can eat anything and stay lean.

I think there's something to this. But it means going back on some of the stuff I've been typing.

Essentially if I'm [s]training[/s] exercising like crazy I can eat a tube of mini-eggs on top of everything else with no negative effects.

Ian - have you got the Spinal(Power)Tap edition? 5 is definitely the limit.

[i]I follow it pretty much as set out, I train hard on it, race on it, [b]don't have the cheat days[/b], use some simple carbs during and after 'some' training sessions and events, but not all. I feel healthy and have energy, recover well, and occasionally have a loaf of toast. [/i]

Thats as may be, but you are approximately at the body weight you desire ?.

I'm not too different to this, after now arriving at a weight that seems easy to maintain.
I'm around 79Kg for 6' 1" and it looks Ok, and I can play as hard as I think is reasonable to ask of my body.
I do not mess about with fast / simple carbs around exercise.
Quite happy to go for a ride, first thing, on water and air.

I have days when I indulge, by way of alcohol.
But other than this, I'm happy to stay on my new food choices indefinately.
Which was my goal in the first place.
I hope all would agree that I've been consistent in wanting to learn and achieve body weight control through diet.
To gain fitness through exercise.

I hope all would agree that I've been consistent in wanting to learn and achieve body weight control through diet.

100%.

I'd like to confess that I had two cans of coke on Friday. 😳