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Don't EVER change, Molgrips
Does that include losing weight?
Does that include losing weight?
ZING!
But haven't you reduced the amount of exercise you're doing since then?
Since when?
since you gave up being my inspiration, we started at the same weight, were down to the same weight at the same time... and now i hear you're giving up at 84ish KG.... i'm down to 79-80KG and gunna work hard until that i'm sexier than deadlydarcy.
bad molly!
I've been on the diet for a week now and im quite impressed with it.
Im in my forties weighing in at 13st 10lbs.Im carrying about 10lb to much.....at least,fair to middling fitness wise but working on it.
Monday to Friday I stuck strictly to the diet.
Exercise wise i commute to and from work on my bike a total of about 18miles per day.
Tuesday i went to the gym at night as well, jogged and rowed for about 45mins.
Thursday had a day off from any exercise.
Friday had a commute of 38 miles combined.When i got home from the 30 mile ride at night felt very unwell and had to got to bed.Overstretched myself a little bit. 😳
Saturday was my day off,going out at night for food and beer so had a weigh in to see how i was doing........10st 1lb,had to weigh myself three times as i thought the scales were broke,well chuffed.
Sunday was a "race for life"(3 mile run/walk) with my kids so another day off the exercise really.Also fell off the wagon diet wise a little and had a few beers in the sun.
Monday morning weigh in and im back up to 13st 6lb,im happy with that.
Phil - good going, but like I say I'm aiming for overall speed not light weight in itself. We'll see how I get on later, but each kg below about 85 for me is very difficult to shift.
i'm aiming for overall ability to take my top off in the summer and not feel like a chubbyfunster and have the local kids point, laugh and make up songs about my fat rolls.
Since when?
Since you first tried to do the iDiet properly when you were living in Germany and cycling to work everyday?
Earlier in this thread you said you were struggling to get 3 hours in.
I reckon you should revisit the diet, at your current level of exercise and stick at it for a month.
Surely your body can't get used to a new diet in any shorter time than a month?
I'm aiming for overall speed not light weight in itself
The two are intertwined until you get to a 'light' weight IMO.
Power to weight ratio is a critical factor, do you agree? And once it starts getting hard to lose weight, it would make more sense to concentrate on building power, wouldn't it? Since the net result would be similar.
Of course there are other things that make you a fast racer - pain tolerance, aggression, consistency, endurance and all that. They can all be trained at the same time as increasing power but NOT, in my experience so far - at the same time as dieting heavily.
The crux of the matter is that the slow carb foods are not very carb dense, and I can only eat so many of them. Therefore the slow carb diet limits the number of carbs I can have, which is why I appear to need to supplement.
I reckon you should revisit the diet, at your current level of exercise and stick at it for a month
The thing is, if I do not have enough carbs I can only go at 90% instead of 100% during intense intervals etc. And that last 10% is what makes all the difference in terms of performance, it seems. There's not much point in doing flat out intervals when you can't go flat out.
Anyway - I AM STILL ON THE DIET. I have been for ages. All I am doing is increasing the amount of carbs around exercise to the point where I feel I can go 100%.
how about exercise less so you need less food, see if you lose some weight. Then build back fitness afterwards. bit late for this season though, should've done it in winter!
Kev
Power to weight ratio is a critical factor, do you agree?
100% agree.
My view is that you need to strip away the excess weight, no matter how hard that may be.
You've never given your body a chance to adapt and take it's energy from different sources... you wouldn't give a new training plan (provided by an expert) 2 weeks and sack it off, or change it, because you hadn't improved, would you?
I HAVE NOT SACKED IT OFF!
Jesus.
As for MTFU - you what? I say again - no matter how much I mtfu if I am not adequately fuelled I can't ride as hard. If I were training for ultra endurance then things might be different.
For the 50th time I have been working on it for a year, learning about what works and what doesn't for me. You've never experienced my body (yes I know) and you've only been dieting for a few weeks yourself, so don't tell me what'll be best for me.
Molly - wrong, I've been on a diet for years. It just doesn't ever include cans of Coke or Haribo. I've always made healthy choices and the exercise I do is either offset against chocolate and alcohol or results in weight loss.
You have not been on the slow carb diet for years though have you?
And what is wrong with coke as exercise fuel?
I've eaten low GI pretty much my whole life... certainly my adult life.
I guess it depends how much exercise you're doing? For the odd hour here and there drinking coke and all these 'sports' drinks if you have weight loss as a goal, even if it is a secondary one, is silly IMO.
As you say though... you know you're body and just because I ditched drinking sugary drinks to fuel my exercise and have seen benefits doesn't mean you will.
And what is wrong with coke as exercise fuel?
The bubbles will give you indigestion.
...not that you should need coke, or anything, for an hour run.
Maybe he means Columbian marching powder?
Mols - at your weight, running at 12 minute/mile for an hour will burn about 600 cals (according to some random website). You're having 2x coke + chocolate which could easily be more than what you burn.
I've eaten low GI pretty much my whole life... certainly my adult life.
That's not what you've been posting on here. You go on about bread and pasta and all sorts, iirc.
And I'm not drinking sports drinks, I just have a coke after and sometimes before a workout. Which is pretty much what it says in the plan, doesn't it?
Are you suggesting I should ignore how my body feels and just plough on doing poor workouts and feeling like sh*t, recovering poorly, mentally fatigued and unable to concentrate on my job? Cos that's what happens if I don't get enough carbs.
If that's the price of weight loss then I'll stay 85kg thanks, and enjoy getting faster and feeling strong and happy on the bike at the same time.
Mols - at your weight, running a 12 minute mile for an hour will burn about 600 cals (according to some random website). You're having 2x coke + chocolate which could easily be more than what you burn
Doesn't work like that.
It is a good starting point though.
How tall are you?
Doesn't work like that.
That told you, CaptJon. Now don't you feel stupid?
How many calories do I burn up in the 48 hours following a hard workout? What's my base metabolic rate? How many calories do I burn up doing a kettlebell workout after the run, and what does that to do my metabolic rate short or long term?
I'm 5'11
Mol, I eat pasta maybe once a fortnight at most. I do eat a fair amount of bread but predominately it's wholewheat and post exercise.
Exercising twice or more a day does, admittedly, make it easy to have a diet very close to the iDiet with it's post exercise concessions.
My biggest weakness is fruit. I have always eaten loads of it, thankfully it's a lot more nutritious than a fizzy drink.
I reckon you should give the diet a full month and see if your body adapts to it and starts using its own reserves. Ultimately that's 12 hours of your training that might be sub-optimal. Hardly going to set you back in the grand scheme of things.
If it works though, and you shift some lbs...
[i]Are you suggesting I should ignore how my body feels and just plough on doing poor workouts and feeling like sh*t, recovering poorly, mentally fatigued and unable to concentrate on my job? Cos that's what happens if I don't get enough carbs.[/i]
surely anyone who has several kg of fat to lose has been eating too many carbs? I would imagine it's pretty difficult to gain fat by eating too much fibre or too much protein.
Kev
Just diet Molly, work out at your 90% for twice as long......BOOM! 180% right there 🙂 you can gain the extra exercise time by spending less time drinking full fat coke and posting on here defending your coke 😉
In that past I ate too many carbs, yes. On this diet the weight fell off at first, then ut became harder and harder.
Out of interest what should I have for my simple carbs if not coke?
This is how I eat now. I don't 'need' to lose weight. I'm faster than I have been for 20 years.
In the first hour of exercise you can only use 20g of ingested carbs. Any more than this will switch off effective fat burning metabolism and actually make you 'need' carbs during exercise.
MG - I suspect your pre-run coke is making you need more carbs and making the iDave diet ineffective.
Also coke is utter nutritionally vacuous shite, full of huge amounts of high fructose corn syrup to mask the taste of the high thirst inducing salt content.
Also coke is utter nutritionally vacuous shite, full of huge amounts of high fructose corn syrup to mask the taste of the high thirst inducing salt content.
/pedant mode on
Coke in the UK, and most of the world apart from US & Canada, do not contain HFCS 55.
As above, no HFCC or salt in UK coke, just sugar and water mostly. No way would I drink US coke, it's rough as hell and tastes bad too.
Is there really much difference between sugar and maltodextrin in exercise terms?
I'm just utterly baffled that anyone wanting to lose weight would even consider drinking cola and eating chocolate. It's a total contradiction.
I don't even know why you think you [i]need[/i] all these carbs pre exercise anyway. There should be enough in your glycogen stores from what you've been eating all day or the day before.
Kev
Not seen molgrips on the defence like this since what'shisnameawesome flounced.
Maybe not on defence, but debating from a unique standpoint.
Jamie - yes, whatevz re' coke.
back down to 79kg from 82kg yesterday, roast potatoes and other visiting family type foods over the weekend = water retention i guess.
spinning this morning, hopefully get out on the bikes again for a ride this evening.
#workingharderthanmolly
#willprobablynevershiftmylovehandles 🙁
Molly - do you want me to do the old switcheroo and start fighting from your corner?
I think that there is a massive factor in training performance that is a result of what our sub-concious minds are telling us. Funking yourself up with hard training on an empty stomach is a way of getting your body to tell your mind what it's actually capable of.
Oi Phil! Keep hashtags on twitter!
...also, how tall are you? Trying to workout exactly how cuddly you are.
Oh, and I will give Molgrips his due, he is as fixed on his ideas as King Canute.
Jamie - yes, whatevz re' coke.
Don't hate the playa, hate the game, dawg.
He's not very cuddly at all 🙁
Jamie, you still riding road a lot? Fancy a sportive in a couple of weeks? Can you do 90 miles at >17.5mph if in a chain gang?
"Funking yourself up with hard training on an empty stomach is a way of getting your [s]body[/s] [b]mind[/b] to tell your [s]mind[/s] [b]body[/b] what it's actually capable of."
Does Jamie do hills? There are hills. How much wine can you drink Jamie?
Jamie, you still riding road a lot?
Not really. Mostly running, and as Dave says, I don't do hills.
P.S In seriousness, I don't go in for organised sportives/races etc. I'm like a lone wolf.
Jamie are you Chaz Michael Michaels?
I didn't think I did organised stuff.. but I actually loved it. I was a lone wolf pretty much the whole way... hunting down prey. Also - I really don't do hills... I live in fricking Oxfordshire FGS.
iDave - fair edit. I don't think everyone is at that point. Some people need their body to give their mind some encouragement.
full of huge amounts of high fructose corn syrup to mask the taste of the high thirst inducing salt content
Lots of salt? In coke? Is 75mg (3% gda) a lot?
Jamie, you'd fit in well, I rode on my own for 72 miles and didn't speak to anyone, even the three guys I rode with for a while. It's all about just battering yourself senseless. I promise not to talk to you or even acknowledge that you're there.
i'm 6foot tall on the dot Jamie 🙂
starting to see abs at the front when i move/stretch but love handles now look massive in comparison to rest of body 🙁
having cans of tuna at work to snack on instead of buying junk from tescos is helping me i think
There should be enough in your glycogen stores from what you've been eating all day or the day before
Ok well I'm willing to accept that hypothesis. However I really don't feel like there is. Going back a page or two I don't think I can eat enough legumes etc to get enough carbs.
When I did stick to the exact recommendations, I had some problems not just with riding energy levels but also in general. I could never get enough sleep, I was distracted and couldn't concentrate on work. Out on the bike, I'd set off at a reasonable 320W or so hoping to keep it up for 10 miles, and 5 mins later I'd be struggling to keep up 250W.
The question is, how long should I keep that up before expecting an improvement? Six, eight weeks? It seems to happen every time I stick to the plan without a little extra supplementation. Can't ride well, can't work well, and it gets really hard to find the energy to deal with kids on little sleep.
So what should I be doing? I thought experimenting was the right thing to do.
Oh and really, what's the difference between a coke and two scoops of energy drink?
I could never get enough sleep
Could this be put down to being over analytical and a natural worrier?
Molly - load in on quinoa and flat breads?
IMO if you're going to supplement.. do it with fruit. Personally, if I needed to lose weight, I'd give it at least a month. How long have you actually done the plan for? IIRC you were adding chocolate from the very beginning.
Could this be put down to being over analytical and a natural worrier?
Are we talking about the same Molgrips?
Could this be put down to being over analytical and a natural worrier?
What I meant was, no matter how much sleep I took I was always tired. I almost always sleep well.
How long have you actually done the plan for?
As above, at least six weeks - but with very sporadic cheats, once or twice a week. I started to feel a lot better when I re-introduced more carbs AND I lost weight as well. Can't see how I did anything wrong there. The difference is now that I am not cycling to work.
The thing is, lots of other people don't seem to report these symptoms at all, so something's different.
I am upping the exercise for a week or two now as I seem to be mostly at home - I'll let you know how it goes.
😆
coke is just vile, why even buy into it, it's junk. anyway that aside, why not experiment with your training? Sounds to me like if you feel so flogged to death that you can't work or sleep properly you are doing too much, trying to train over and above your fitness level. How about do a bit less then maybe you won't feel such a need to eat sugar before and after, and to have to refuel so much at meal times. Try backing off the intense intervals for a few weeks, maybe you'll lose some weight that way. You can always go back to them afterwards. It's not like you're going to lose precious fitness.
Kev
very sporadic cheats, once or twice a week
lots of other people don't seem to report these symptoms at all
I can't work it out.
Edit - If I knew how to use the search function I'd find the thread that talked about your early days on the diet.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17511011 ]Mmmmm! Chocolate.[/url]
..
coke is just vile, why even buy into it, it's junk
I'd like some evidence please not just marketing copy.
Sounds to me like if you feel so flogged to death that you can't work or sleep properly you are doing too much, trying to train over and above your fitness level
I'm not new to this training game. In Germany it was something like 4-8 hours a week, now it's about three as above. In the form of several short workouts.
Try backing off the intense intervals for a few weeks, maybe you'll lose some weight that way
Three hours a week of bimbling around in 45 minute stretches isn't going to do anything for me.
The question is do I a) fuel to exercise so that it feels good and positive, hoping that I'll lose weight through the exercise or b) feel like crap, ride like crap and hope that I'll lose weight that way?
Three hours a week of bimbling around in 45 minute stretches isn't going to do anything for me.
Might it start tapping into any fat reserves?
iDave - I'll edit again then.
Molly - do you fancy a sportive?
ok molly, can you break down what those 3 hours a week consist of at present? is that 4X 45 minute sessions on the bike or 4X 30mins plus 15mins of kettlebells or what?
... again
LoLing (again) at all the boys trying to loose weight...
Loolling at your spelling
A sportive would be nice but again, not easy to dump the kids on Mrs Grips all day when I could be helping.
As for fat reserves, I thought we'd established that high intensity was more effective for people without much time?
My point in all the above is that it looks to me like I need to focus on the training whilst eating appropriately. Training is more important after all.
My training is very patchy, and this is my main problem, not the diet.
why are you LOLing at us emsz? its the same media thats encouraging a certain body-type as an ideal for men as it is for women 😛
i'm losing weight for health reasons, if i end up looking as sexy as deadlydarcy in the process then the world ends up a nicer place to live in for wimminz such as yourself 😆 8)
*checks out flat tummy, decides not to care about spelling*
8)
you're the kinda person who sits outside the weigh****chers groups with a whole tub of hagen daaz being very vocal about how tasty and creamy it is aren't you!? 👿
if we all stared at ice-cream and focus we could make emsz into a biffer
checks out flat tummy, decides not to care about spelling
emsz - without pictures this means nothing.
I'm not saying you're not new to training and I didn't say bimble around for 45mins. By all means do intervals but try backing off the intensity. I cannot help but think you're flogging yourself half to death in a vain effort to become as fit /fast /thin as you think you can be all in one go. How about taking it one stage at a time ?
Kev
Philly, after 2 hours of cycling las weekend I eat pretty much a whole tub of tesco rum and raisin. Yum 
emsz - you're not a very nice person, are you?
It's important to pretend that you eat healthily on these threads.
Sorry yeti
After cycling 2 hours last weekend I eat 2 beans and a protein shake of crushed rubarb and celery stalks
Ok?
Well done!
How much more weight are you hoping to lo'o'se?
How about taking it one stage at a time ?
Well I've been trying for years, how slow should I take it? The point of intervals is to go hard, surely? They aren't all flat out - some are longer and hence more paced.
Going very fast is what feels good to me, and it's what I need to do to enjoy myself on the bike. I spent too long doing what didn't feel right.
I don't think it's a case of how slow you should be going but more a case of how much effort you can put in without your body feeling the desire for sugar and refuelling afterwards, or beforehand for that matter. Only you can work this out, try experimenting 😉
Kev
it's what I need to do to enjoy myself on the bike
If the enjoyment of each individual session is the most important thing to you then there's no point in us discussing it any more.
Although I don't imagine that aspiring racers enjoy every session they do.
If I'm going to be faster and more powerful, I need to really stretch my legs, and that means putting me well into the carb burning zone. However, I don't have to do it for long, which means that my carb stores should be sufficient powered by beans and a little simple carbs here and there. Which is what I'm going for.
Anyway - here's support for my Twix theory 🙂
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17511011
a little simple carbs here and there
Didn't you say earlier in this thread that you had a can of coke pre exercise and another after?
I sometimes do, if I haven't had much carbs all day long. Not always though. And that day in question was an hour's running which is pretty intense for me. And I had no carbs during.
A coke has as much carbs as what, a scoop and a half of energy drink. So three scoops in total when the rest of the day I'd had only veg, eggs and meat and three tiny choccies. Is that really too much?
quite convenient that report being released just before easter. really, in all honesty Molly it's an excuse for you to eat it. It seems to me you'd rather eat chocolate than lose weight, then flog yourself half to death in a vain effort to try and burn it off, only leading you with a desire to consume yet more of the same. Viscious circle.
Kev
Is that really too much?
IMO yes.
Today.
Swam for 50 mins this morning.
80g Porridge
handful of nuts
peperami
50 mins circuit training
prawn chorizio lentil and bean stew with flat bread
2 slices of pineapple
Possibly some more nuts and a banana mid afternoon.
hour and a half of yoga
chicken and chickpea curry, with quinoa or more flat bread.
I'll sleep like a baby.
in all honesty Molly it's an excuse for you to eat it
That was a joke!
then flog yourself half to death in a vain effort to try and burn it off
I flog myself to train to get faster... A lot of misguided assumptions going on here. Honestly - there should be no reason why a fit active cyclist cannot eat three frickin choccies once or twice a week!
Yeti. You think I should eat less? Do you think I've not tried? What should I do when I start feeling terrible? Anyway that food you posted isn't that different to what I eat.
If I'm going to be faster and more powerful, I need to really stretch my legs, and that means putting me well into the carb burning zone
This for me was bad. I used to do everything hard.. running, cycling, circuit training. I always thought to get fit you had to push yourself hard.
A few years ago I had a fitness test and found my fat burning was absolutely terrible. The guy said I was typical of a lot of mountain bikers. Good power at top end but very bad base.
I then did lots of zone 2 training (and idave) and became a much more efficient cyclist and a lot leaner. (I went from using 43% of energy from fat to 84% in 5 months *at my aerobic base point)
this taught me i needed to do slower pace rides and it was needed all year round.
TD I also had the same experience. However I did too much base and lost a lot of power. Which made it hard for me to really hammer myself in races.
I am doing intervals and hoping to do base riding at the weekends, but I am not managing to get out.