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Putting aside the moral position. What’s the hive mind on economics of a ICE car purchase Vs hybrid/battery. 1/2 yr old. 5-10 yrs ownership. Large estate/MPV/small van/SUV
given recent political shift on how to get to net zero iCE longevity seems greater.
Probably depends on mileage (and only worth thinking about if you can charge overnight cheap at home, or something else equivalent).
OTOH EVs are mostly great to drive and you're not polluting urban areas (so much - there's still tyre dust). Which you might care about.
E-vans still don't seem to have great range for the most part, which may be a factor.
low mileage 8-10k miles a year.Largely Short runs. Occasional long trips.
Unless you’re planning to drive it into city centres it’ll probably be fine.
Ultimately the 2030/2035 ban is on production; fuel will be available for a while yet.
Offset any guilt by trying to walk/cycle local journeys more?
Currently on flux (I think) so mid priced electric between 2 and 5am
Where would you charge a battery vehicle? If you can charge at home, great. If you have to use public charging there is no cost saving in fuel currently. In fact, an efficient ICE vehicle can be cheaper. That's before you consider the higher cost of entry.
Just for clarity, I drive a BEV and have done 17500 miles since the start of the year.
Ultimately the 2030/2035 ban is on production; fuel will be available for a while yet.
It will... But if you have ever run an LPG car you will know the pain of fuel being less and less convenient to find.
Leaving aside the moral and economic questions, what fits your requirements best. I'm pretty much like you, short trips and the occasional long one and I think a hybrid (PHEV) would suit me most. Not that I'm in the market for one, my 10 year old Passat is still going.
Harry Metcalfe did a video on this recently - OK he's talking SUVs but the principle remains.
Even though I have an EV, in OP's position I'd probably go petrol ICE - although it does depend a bit on initial budget and how many people actually need to fit in (there's not a great choice of EV MPVs at the moment but if 4/5 seats are OK rather than 6/7 there's a lot more choices).
only want 5 seats (would take out others likely if more than 5 to free up space). Space is to carry ‘stuff’.
Current mid/large petrol SUV and have a tow bar bike rack and a roof box for holidays but if we add some inflatable SUP type fun then will be too small.
remember to check the insurance.
high repair cost/inability to repair of some of the bigger players (and I guess, statistically some muppets crashing them at a higher rate) can lead to huge premiums. I'd be looking at close to a grand for a polestar which is probably the closest EV to my current car.
10k miles a year at 50mpg is about £1500 worth of fuel.
Harry has some other good vids 😉
ICE is going to be around as a mainstream supported product for way way longer than 5-10 years ownership.
no brainer for me, go ICE.
Another great video by Harry.
I've got a build date of my Octavia PHEV which is actually this week, so hopefully deivery is end of Nov/early Dec. Looking forward to using it and seeing what the benefits will be. It's mostly for the tax benefits as it's a company car but my average work journey is maybe around 80 mile round trip (not every day, visiting customers in different locations). It will be interesting to see what the overall running costs are. Has anyone here with a PHEV moved to an EV tariff at home?
My Toyota hybrid is not very exciting but gets reasonable mileage (60 mpg or thereabouts). I don't think I would ever get an ICE again, but hybrid seems pretty OK.
To be fair my wife’s BMW 320 diesel used to do over 60mpg until an HGV remodelled it.
As for grid loading, EVs are not in the same league as heat pumps - relatively straightforward for most charging, though forecourt style fast charging will be a bigger issue.
ICE or EV.
Not a hybrid for me.
ICE is going to be around as a mainstream supported product for way way longer than 5-10 years ownership.
no brainer for me, go ICE.
I'm of the opposite opinion.
Year on year growth in EV sales seems to imply that ICE will be pretty much phased out by 2030 anyway whether the government supports it or not. Sure there will still be cars for sale, but I'd be surprised if it's not models that are released already or soon, they won't be new.
Euro7 effectively bans ICE in small cars, the emissions control equipment will be uneconomical.
Electricity prices will drop again, especially those on variable tariffs when the wind blows, petrol prices won't.
Politicians are already having to claim they won't implement a zero emissions zone, which can only mean it's coming (and people will bleat that Rishi "encouraged" them to buy these polluting ICE's, they really had no idea etc).
My reality doesn't quite match that. I've got a car, but it's basically a toy , it's used less than 2 tanks of fuel this year, gets free tax and doesn't get a regular MOT anymore. My OH has a car which she uses a lot more than I do (I cycle everywhere, she doesn't). I'm idly looking for a 'new' car, but realistically we're talking something old enough to drink and vote for tip runs and the odd weekend away. Last time I had a car and worked in this office it had to have the rust cleaned off the brake disks for the MOT!
Electricity prices will drop again, especially those on variable tariffs when the wind blows, petrol prices won’t.
There was an interesting thread on SoMe saying that solar is expanding at such a rate, with or without government mandates, that in a moderately sunny country in a sunny day, electricity will effectively be free. There is an issue about how to store it that needs to be worked through though…
Year on year growth in EV sales seems to imply that ICE will be pretty much phased out by 2030 anyway
the growth is tiny, most of the growth is hybrid (they all get clumped in the same figures) -there is zero chance any of the dates will be kept. There was a thread on one of my linkedin channels about how a meeting with Rishi and BP wasn't minuted (as is normal) - there was a feeling that the data being presented made very uncomfortable reading - i.e. we're drilling for more oil than ever and our energy demands are increasing year on year and there is nothing in the plan to replace it.
to give an idea of the scale in 2022 the total Nuclear and renewables output was 2490.172 tWh, if you were to electrify everything (planes and ships), you would need (as of today) 63,729 tWh - only a small gap!
or to bring it just about more in line with everyday transport - Diesel and Gasoline (petrol to you lot) accounts for ~ half of the fossil energy output ~53million barrels a day or about 33K tWh so we are still a factor of 10 out on what we need JUST to replace the internal combustion engine gloablly.
So, when big oil, that everyone hates, says it aint gonna happen, they really do mean - it aint gonna happen because we consume SOOOO much energy. Energy demand is increasing year on year, and Nuclear energy is DECREASING year on year i've not even included coal and gas powered fire stations! in the above!
My main worry even ignoring potential ICE bans moving/changing and broader issues would be the impending obsolescence & subsequent depreciation of whatever particular EV/Hybrid you chose and being stuck with an expensive paperweight.
Given the pace of advances in battery tech, infrastructure etc. if I had the need for an EV it would be one of the few times where I would absolutely lease rather than buy when it comes to cars.
They're one of those vehicles that could easily become almost worthless overnight if things change with regulations or technical advances (or the battery dies out of warranty and costs more than the value of the car to replace) so if that can be someone elses problem that would be preferable! If it costs you 'x' per month and saves you 'x' or acceptably close to that per month in fuel and it fits into your journey requirements, then it's a winner.
We have 26 miles a day to drive. We have a smart meter so can sign up for very cheap electricity overnight.
The cheapest EV I could find that was useful for most local mileage i.e. wasn't an old model Leaf with a tiny battery was a new model Leaf - got it for a good price of £9k. That is comparable with a similarly sized ICE at similar mileage and age.
However, the fuel saving is around £80/mo which is about half the cost of borrowing the money to buy it. So, if we were buying diesel/petrol even at 50mpg, we would only have been able to afford a £4.5k car which would have been much older and/or smaller, especially given current used car prices. So for us, a no brainer.
Given the pace of advances in battery tech, infrastructure etc. if I had the need for an EV it would be one of the few times where I would absolutely lease rather than buy when it comes to cars.
I'm not sure about this right now. Batteries will improve, but commute distances will stay the same, Swansea/Bristol aren't getting further away nor are my parents, most probably. For a car used for local journeys - likely a second car - used EVs can make a lot of sense.
or the battery dies out of warranty and costs more than the value of the car to replace
You don't replace batteries, you replace cells, only a few of which die at a time if you are very unlucky. Doesn't really happen on cars more modern than mine. You're probably as likely to suffer a catastrophically expensive failure on an ICE.
our energy demands are increasing year on year
Whose? UK or global? Because I don't think that's true in the UK. Also National Grid reckon the savings we have already made since the peak of 2017 (or whenever it was) can more than cater for everyone to have an EV, here in the UK.
the growth is tiny, most of the growth is hybrid (they all get clumped in the same figures)
Also don't think this is true. PHEVs do not get lumped in with EVs, and EVs are growing quickly.
Today there are an estimated 660,000 electric cars on the road in the UK and 445,000 plug-in hybrids (PHEVs).
In December 2022, 42,284 new EVs were registered in the UK - a figure that's 52.62% higher than the 27,705 new electric cars that were registered over the same month in 2021.
EVs enjoyed a continual growth streak throughout 2022. In January 2022, 14,433 EVs were registered, representing 12.5% market share. By the summer this had increased to 22,737 for June, a 16.1% slice of the market. By December 2022, this had significantly increased to 42,284 new EV registrations - a massive 32.9% market share.
As a comparison, there were just 4006 diesel cars registered in December 2022 - a mere 3.1% market share. This was down from 6008 in January 2022 (5.2% of the market).
Alongside EVs, 2022 also saw an increase in the number of self-charging hybrid cars, up 27.6% on 2021 levels with 187,948 registrations. The number of PHEV (plug-in hybrid cars) fell by 11.5% to 101,414.
Source: https://heycar.co.uk/blog/electric-cars-statistics-and-projections
global, everyones are including the UK. The figures above are global, but you cant look at one western country in isolation as we all share the same resources.
Or a less sales-orientated link: https://cleantechnica.com/2023/08/05/uk-ev-share-at-24-1-bevs-double-model-y-top/
July is always one of the UK’s quieter months of the year for EV share, and for auto volumes generally. Nevertheless, BEV volumes were up 88% over July last year, to 23,010 units. PHEV volume increased by almost 80%, to 11,702 units. Both were well ahead of the 27% volume recovery of the broader market.
In December 2022, 42,284 new EVs were registered in the UK – a figure that’s 52.62% higher than the 27,705 new electric cars that were registered over the same month in 2021.
were end of year registrations in order to meet quota's - this years EV uptake is massively down.
the constant in use “standby” gas power station near me suggests otherwise.
Oh come on. You must know the difference between anecdote and data.
Speaking of which, where are you reading that EV sales are 'massively down' this year?
Here's some data direct from the manufacturers - SMTT:
https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/evs-and-afvs-registrations/
Hmm that says January 2023 and says 'year to date' but doesn't specify if that's today or otherwise.
I haven't seen a page yet that says EV growth in the UK is 'tiny'.
Your January and ytd data are the same. Seems suspect.
Op needs a spreadsheet for his use case.
I had to do 15k a year for it to make economic sense between two comparable age and milage vehicles before vehicles end of life Using 1.80/l at the time a 3 y/o petrol engine was 1/3rd the price of a 3y/o bev. Costs have come down for Bev but not by enough for it to make sense to me doing 6k a year.
Wife's next car might be a Bev if they get the range and cost issues sorted with the bev berlingo.
Op needs a spreadsheet for his use case.
Yep. I did one with all our options, also included the lower cost of servicing for EVs, both annual and regular stuff like timing belts, fuel filters, transmission fluid, spark plugs etc etc etc that you don't need to do on EVs.
Indeed but all Small fry stuff compared to the fuel aspect. Didn't skew the numbers far enough . The only way I could skew them was to play bev bangernomics
Yes and honestly EV bangernomics is not attractive unless you really don't care and are happy with a 50 mile range, or no rapid charging, or other weirdness, whilst still paying £6k. It's not like they're £1,000.
We were lucky to find a cheap recent Leaf tbh. I keep thinking I should have gone for an Ioniq but they were 50% more.
I haven't played bangeromics but my old style Leaf has been bonkers cheap for the last five years, but I charge at home most of the time. Insurance is the same as any small car, maintenance is cheap as chips.
I'm not bothered about the batteryy dying and being useless, as they kind of don't. And , I'm hoping someone can confirm that sometimes ICE's break, need maintenance, cam chains, spark plugs and weird victoriana type stuff?
Finally to disappoint Sui all my neighbours have BEV's and we can run wash the machine without everyone in the street getting a power cut. Strange!!!
To the OP - if you can charge at home a BEV is pish cheap if you only do local runs up to a couple hundred miles. GO beyond that a lot and you need to factor in a degree of inconvenience.
For "mostly short runs and the occasional long one" a phev can work really well, very low cost for all your short journeys, very low hassle for your longer ones, when used in that pattern they tend to have the lowest tco compared to a full battery or ice vehicle (cheaper to buy than an ev, cheaper to fuel than a ice)
Energy in all forms is going to get more expensive in the future.
EVs effect on total lifetime emissions is minimal as all the electricity they use increases demand which increases fossil fuel burning and getting the lithium for the batteries is a very dirty process.
EVs are simply greenwash. they do nothing to reduce energy usage in any significant way and indeed there is data that shows they are used more due to the small marginal cost of extra miles
I’m not bothered about the batteryy dying and being useless, as they kind of don’t.
The old Leaf is a funny one. No battery cooling like the newer noes, but the first couple of model years 2011-2013 didn't really manage temperatures very well so you could get a car that's done motorway miles and shortened its battery life, or you could get one that's fine. But they gradually improve the management software over time so the 2014-2017 ones are largely better. But with a small battery to begin with you get at most 80 miles and that can drop to 50 according to users in bad weather and for us, that variability wasn't enough to give us confidence. My wife might've ended up looking at a 25 mile each way trip and we wouldn't want to be pushing it.
The benefit of a Leaf is that they are cheap, and decent cars; and there are loads of spares including batteries. They are very well known cars, with a big community.
Yeah, that grid claim sounds like bollocks to me, since 2017 we've lost a lot of capacity and we're still several years away from Hinkley C never mind Sizewell C.
I haven’t played bangeromics but my old style Leaf has been bonkers cheap for the last five years,
how much was the capital investment to achieve that low operating expenditure.
MY understanding is the national grid is close to capacity and brownouts are a real possibility this winter if we get a nice stable high pressure event so no wind power. Its going to be emergency diesel generators running.
More than several years for the new nuclear as well is it not?
Link to the guardiam- summary
The quotes were £5,000 or more’: electric vehicle owners face soaring insurance costs
So I'd be carefully checking the insurance.
More than several years for the new nuclear as well is it not?
Q4 2028 officially, everything is really ramping up now though, I think the first mechanical systems are due to be installed imminently and actual Ops staff due with them.
If you actually saw the place you would understand why it's taken so long to physically build (forget the pre-build politics). Mind boggling.
15 years?? It was only selected as a site in 2010!
It didn't actually start construction until 2017. It's actually a bit over 3 years late which, given Covid, is actually not all that awful. Still not great but as I said, it's an absolutely huge construction project. You can bet Sizewell will be quicker if it goes ahead.
Its rather later than that! according to that 18 years in the building ( actually longer in reality) Its at least 10 years after the date it was first said it was going to be generating. 2005 it was announced
Illl bet its not generating in 2028 and that Sizewell will be also delayed by at least a decade
Hinkley C was supposed to be generating in 2017! so thats a projected 11 years late
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/28/hinkley-point-c-timeline-all-the-key-moments
TJ is talking bollocks again. He's read something once that he liked the sound of then is repeating it constantly.
Yeah, that grid claim sounds like bollocks to me
The National Grid have an article on EV myths. The grid capacity - the actual wires - can handle it, as they are still there from our peak. The generating capacity is the subject of ongoing management, so if anyone has actual information on that then post it now.
People are unlikely to all buy EVs suddenly but they are buying them gradually, so I'm guessing someone's thought of that already. What would be more interesting is a huge peak on say, summer weekends or Christmas Eve as people travel and recharge their cars.
While tj is indeed talking bollocks.
Your quote from the national grid is equally as bollocks.
@Stcolin. I have a PHEV and a EV motorbike (so small battery) . I decided the ~10% extra against std variable rate (svr) you pay for peak on an EV tariff wasn't worth it. I'm on a daily tracker tariff which historically is 30% less than svr and it's working well.
My view on the OPs dilemma is going full EV if he can find one big enough to satisfy his need. I think PHEV now isn't as attractive with so many full EV options available but of course if it's only a financial decision the extra cost of buying an EV can see payback being a considerable amount of time if you're not doing many miles
Your quote from the national grid is equally as bollocks.
Go on?
In what way is what Iam saying bollocks? Which bit? That EVs are greenwash? That Hinckly is 11 years late?
Your literally quoting the people who's job it is to tell you it'll be all ok.
Next you'll be quoting Boris Johnson.
In what way is what Iam saying bollocks? Which bit?
This bit. It's straight off the daily mail/daily express winter fearmongering bingo sheet. Every year. ....
MY understanding is the national grid is close to capacity and brownouts are a real possibility this winter
Yes it's possible but it's always been possible.
Your literally quoting the people who’s job it is to tell you it’ll be all ok.
Ok, they might be lying. Got anything to suggest they are, other than general cynicism?
Its generating capacity we are short of. Barely enough to meet need hence the diesel generators on standby. Brownouts as a possibility is discussed in reputable sources as well. We are maxing out our generating capacity when the wind does not blow
the national grid gave a warning of brownouts last year and recommissioned 5 coal power stations!
https://www.nationalgrideso.com/news/eso-takes-cautious-action-ahead-winter-ensure-security-electricity-supply
"MY understanding is the national grid is close to capacity and brownouts are a real possibility this winter"
There is a risk but apparently lower than last winter. The UK strategy of relying on imports of electricity seems unwise to me as other European grids also move to a gigher percentage of wind generation. There is regular low wind weather over much of Europe at the same time.
https://watt-logic.com/2023/06/16/early-winter-outlook-confirms-reliance-on-interconnectors/
http://euanmearns.com/the-wind-in-spain-blows/
Ta IRC
Ok, they might be lying. Got anything to suggest they are, other than general cynicism?
Ironically the very posts that defend them undermine your stance.
My stance is that it's very much in the middle heading towards tj side and only going to head more towards tj stance if the protestors get their way
Surely if they are able to start up coal power stations then they aren't nearly at capacity are they? It just means they've shut down what they weren't using...
Are you suggesting that coal should form part of sustainable energy for your car ?
Ironically the very posts that defend them undermine your stance.
I don't really have a stance, I don't work for them I've got nothing other than what I've read. So if you've got more information I'm all ears.
Are you suggesting that coal should form part of sustainable energy for your car ?
No...? Wtf? I'm simply saying that the existence of spare capacity means the grid isn't at capacity as has been alleged.
its very close to capacity - uncomfortably so and every bit of electricity needed in your EV increases the amount of fossil fuel burned to produce that electricity
read the two bits provided about capacity.
So what should they use the coal power to supply if we count it as capacity.
It's not schrodingers capacity
every bit of electricity needed in your EV increases the amount of fossil fuel burned to produce that electricity
this is an oft-overlooked part of the puzzle - people quote the CO2 output of an electric car based on the general mix of electricity, but it should really be based on the worst-polluting-source of electricity during the hours they're charged. Most are charged off-peak, but our coal generation is still putting out power even then, so the numbers we use for leccy cars should be based on coal gen (imo)
of course it should be. this is why EVs are a greenwash.
Barely enough to meet need hence the diesel generators on standby.
Good grief. Until there is MASSIVE battery capacity or PERFECT network uptime (which in the UK is practically perfect), then there will always be a need for diesel-powered backup generators.
This is like suggesting planes can't fly properly because they carry life jackets.
this is an oft-overlooked part of the puzzle – people quote the CO2 output of an electric car based on the general mix of electricity, but it should really be based on the worst-polluting-source of electricity during the hours they’re charged.
It's not overlooked at all. In fact, EV owners are heavily incentivised to charge when there is a surplus of energy due to the prevailing weather. This is the whole basis of intelligent tariffs that most of us subscribe to. If there's wind forecast for a few hours overnight, that's when the charging rate goes up.
our coal generation is still putting out power even then, so the numbers we use for leccy cars should be based on coal gen
No they should be based on the average as you have no idea wether or not coal is being used. Most of the summer we didn't burn any coal at all. As of right now we're still only on 3% coal.
uncomfortably so and every bit of electricity needed in your EV increases the amount of fossil fuel burned to produce that electricity
That's a great bit of man maths that is. Why don't we put the factories operating overnight in the 'coal' column instead?
Something I’d be very interested in is a kit that an Australian student has developed and won the James Dyson engineering award for. It uses a pair of axial flow electric motors, a technology developed in the U.K., and which Mercedes has bought, but have left the original designer/developer free to allow others to use it. Basically the two motors look like weights for weight training that bolt onto the hub, and are connected to a battery pack that drops down into the spare tyre space, which gives about 100 miles range on electric, with the ICE able to charge the battery pack on longer journeys. <br />Cost is roughly £3500. There’s a small EV built by a bunch of students which uses these same axial flow motors, and they’re very powerful.
Having an ICE cheaply converted to a PHEV would seem to be the ideal solution for a great many people - I’d be all over it if it became available here, being able to use my own car, with the petrol engine for extended trips, but being able to switch it to electric to access city centres or just for local use is absolutely ideal.
Having an ICE cheaply converted to a PHEV would seem to be the ideal solution for a great many people
I'm initially sceptical; there's a shit-ton of electronics that would complain loudly about that. Now, if I were in charge, manufacturers would be forced to make all their software open-source so that could all be dealt with.
On paper it would be fairly easy to convert my Merc to full electric. Stripping out the motor and gearbox would save enough weight to add quite a lot of battery. But building battery packs isn't easy, and you'd have to do a fair bit of work to get the car to actually work like that. There's a reason EV conversion kits are aimed at classics.
Had a Golf GTE for a couple of years on lease and it was good as our only car - works well as a short-range EV for local running about, preheats in the winter, never got less than 42mpg on petrol (long motorway run, not charged). VW group put that powertrain in lots of things now, a Passat or Octavia or Superb or Leon estate with it would do nicely.
The combo of a Leaf e+ (for most journeys) and an old petrol JDM Honda Stepwgn (for camping holidays, bikes, tip runs) does us nicely at the moment but if we were back to just one car again it'd probably be one of the above.
Currently anything post 2006 and petrol is considered fine for the ULEZ and CAZ cities so even if you didn't go for a hybrid then a petrol that's a couple of years old should easily last you for 10 years even with tightening restrictions.
Its not "man maths" whatever that is. Its the reality. EVs are greenwash and this is why. As we are still a mix of generating any increase in electricity consumption means more fossil fuels burnt.
I've come across a couple of people who were judgmental to people (to their face) who bought new or nearly new ICE cars. Bit nasty.
It might be something we have to take into consideration in the future if your colleagues and customers etc. have visibility of what you drive.
Surely if they are able to start up coal power stations then they aren’t nearly at capacity are they?
That's a big if. What coal stations are on standby?
I'll give you a clue, the total is not divisible by itself.
https://www.powerstations.uk/coal-countdown/
As for @tjagain that time line is a load of crap, are you really counting day zero as "Tony Blair said..."? EDF didn't even have an operating licence until 2009 and the EPR didn't get a Generic Design Assessment approved by the ONR until 2012. Then it needed to get a safety case, planning approval and final consent. Oddly enough nuclear reactors aren't just thrown up on a whim, there's a lot of regulatory processes to go through (some of which required major redesigns of high functioning systems), procurement and personnel issues that need dealt with.
There are often 10k people on site in a single day.
It has its own concrete factory as it's easier than trying to ship it in.
It has it's own bus station and bus company.
It's got it's own accommodation scattered around the area.
In other words it's a logistical monster.
And that's before you even get into the engineering.
Like I said, 3 years over, considering covid and the associated issues up the supply chain is still impressive considering the scale of it
"As we are still a mix of generating any increase in electricity consumption means more fossil fuels burnt."
Not convinced this is true TJ, otherwise how would the overnight tariffs be economically viable? The fact they exist would suggest that there is an excess of power available at off peak times.
Also not fully convinced that the insurance thing is related to electric specifically. Categorically not true for my Polestar, which is cheaper than almost all of the equivalent petrol vehicles I looked at in an attempt to get data. Only one cheaper was an alfa but that was a much lower list price. Seems more likely to me that expensive, high powered vehicles get binned quite a bit.
IMolgrips - its indisputable that increased energy consumption means more fossil fuels being burnt. EVs increase electricity consumption. Look at the data linked below. Stop believing in the greenwash
yes there is an excess of power at times in the night when windy - but that is an excess of production over consumption. some of the fossil fuel will be turned off but not all. Its 1.15 in the morning. currently 4.1% coal and 11% gas 8% biomass which is not carbon neutral as well as 5% imported. Every extra bit of electricity going into your EV means a corresponding increase in fossil fuel generation
Electricity producers want to smooth demand hence the night tariffs
So yes - it is a fact that your EVs mean an increase in fossil fuel electricity generation
Now please explain how your EV only knows its getting electrons from wind and not nuclear or fossil fuels?
Why don't you go and read up on the UKs generation mix? Lots of good data being produced. Scotland does run without any fossil fuel at times I believe but England and Wales do not.
https://grid.iamkate.com/
https://www.energydashboard.co.uk/live
Squirrelking EDF said it would be generating before the end of 2020 and of course all the rest of the stuff you want to discard is a part of the delays. the reality is if it makes the 2028 timeline and I will bet it will not thats 19 years since the project started
What you seem to have ignored is the reduction in fossil fuel consumption caused by me not putting diesel in.
If I weren't charging my car, we would still need base generating capacity because lots of things need constant power. An EV does not need constant power. It can start and stop charging whenever the supplier wants. This is why EVs are seen as a key part of renewable strategy - because they represent storage technology.
If I weren't charging my EV the coal power stations would still be on because my EV isn't consu.ing base load it is consuming surplus. In fact if I were on Agile Octopus I could actually be paid for charging it at times. The more renewable energy we install the more weather related variability we will have and the more battery storage we will need including EVs.
Probably off topic now, but is a used Suzuki Swift a decent option for a frugal run-about car in a mostly rural roads use setting?
IMolgrips – its indisputable that increased energy consumption means more fossil fuels being burnt.
Is it, though?