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I really only remember him as the 'shouty bloke with the funny voice' from the news when I was a kid but I don't think he did a lot for tolerance and understanding in a country where it was desperately needed at the time.
[not sure if it's appropriate to joke]
He requested flowers but no potpourri at his funeral.
[/not sure if it's appropriate to joke]
That man had a lot to answer for.
he did a lot for tolerance and understanding
Erm NO
unless you think being anti catholic, he called the pope the anti christ for example, and anti the belfast agreement helped
Also managed to keep homosexual legislation at bay till the 80's - save Ulster from Sodomy or some such iirc?
He was many things but tolerant was not one of them.
[quote=Junkyard ]
he did a lot for tolerance and understanding
Erm NO
unless you think being anti catholic, he called the pope the anti christ for example, and anti the belfast agreement helped
He was many things but tolerant was not one of them
Read the post again
[i]Read the post again[/i]
quite.
perhaps I should rephrase it;
"He was an intolerant, ranty, anti-catholic bigot who had to start his own church because none of the others would have him due to his extremist views"
Is Junkyard a BBC editor?
[quote=Drac ]Is Junkyard a BBC editor?
😆
a good politician who proved that everyone has to change sometimes.
😳
Can I edit
My humblest apologies for getting that so completely wrong
I apologise
😳
Sorry OP
😆 @ Drac very good
IGMC
There will be Knarling and nashing of TEETH
Dont have any teeth
TEETH willll be proooovided
I don't think he did a lot for tolerance and understanding in a country where it was desperately needed at the time.
Correct
That man had a lot to answer for.
Indeed
He seemed to stand in the way of anything that hinted at reconciliation and unity. However, he mellowed in his old age, and it may be true to say that without his uncompromising stance the disarmament of the IRA might not have come about.
I thought it was a bit quiet.
He was a horrible man full of hate. A major agitator who caused a lot of problems.
Good riddance.
He was a horrible man full of hate.
no more than the others,
Made Gerry Adams sound like the voice of reason.
Good riddance to bad rubbish! Now if Jerry and Martin could just go the same way I'll be a happy man.
The Northern Ireland peace process would have happened 10 years earlier (at least) if it wasn't forstubborn, intolerant, entrenched, bigoted idiots like him, and his ilk!
Just reading out a shopping list his voice would still convey hatred.
On a slightly different note, wonder how long it is till they give Northern Ireland a Scotland like referendum?
Don't believe everything you see or read in the media.
He was a horrible man full of hate
when the press where about, but a decent bloke when they where not. Often seen drinking and joking with the other side in bars around Belfast and if he was your local MP, it didn't matter what foot you kicked with, if you had issues, he'd do his best to sort them out.
Binners + whatever
The whole "No Surrender" and Ulsterman crap made many of us just wish the whole province would go away. Rigid petty stupidity.
Mark and Lard once did an advert for an Album: Ian Paisley sings the Beatles. With him just shouting the lyrics to Beatles songs in his full on 'No Surrender!' voice. That was quite funny
Not remembered with any fondness by me. Perhaps he can serve as an example of how bad things where and an incentive to never to return to that place.
IMO The IRA was disarmed after 9/11 as the US really started to understand the meaning of terrorism. In the 90's in New York and Boston there where buckets collecting for "the struggle" in the Irish Bars. Not after 9/11 though.
when the press where about, but a decent bloke when they where not.
That makes it even worse.
To deliberately create a persona of hate, to preach a message of bigotry and hatred.
On a slightly different note, wonder how long it is till they give Northern Ireland a Scotland like referendum?
I always thought that once the Catholic population where in the majority, they would be given the choice to join Eire?
To deliberately create a persona of hate, to preach a message of bigotry and hatred.
I'd rather have that than the usual crap that most politicians play on 'a persona of caring' when they are only interested in serving themselves.
He's in this
I'd rather have that than the usual crap that most politicians play on 'a persona of caring' when they are only interested in serving themselves.
He only agreed to power sharing once his party were the largest in NI, which meant he was First Minister.
How self serving is that?
[i]only interested in serving themselves[/i]
his persona of not caring was surely driven by that too?
his son, who is also his namesake, is also a dickhead with some remarkably close and opaque relationships with property developers.
Compared to my auntie Margaret in (London)Derry, he was a moderate, open-minded liberal. By Christ she scares me.
Any of these commentators actually from Norn Iron or been there?
That footage of him heckling the Pope is pretty funny. They take his sign away, but he has an identical one in his pocket. This is a good profile of him, for those interested in the details...
[url= http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=oZKyNBQMbfUC&pg=PA336&lpg=PA336&dq=andrew+mueller+ian+paisley&source=bl&ots=ia3J0vXhYB&sig=8XjMfljllWdlJ9acPDoP3f0lGZo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Eu8SVPqpCoblaunhgbAC&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=andrew%20mueller%20ian%20paisley&f=false ]interview extract[/url]
Any of these commentators actually from Norn Iron or been there?
What's that got to do with it?
What a strange statement.
I'm not sure we need to visit either the North Pole to know it's flipping cold or to visit a country to know when one of it's politicians is doing their best to stir up sectarian hatred?
[for the record I went to Belfast for the day once]
Any of these commentators actually from Norn Iron or been there?
Aye,what's it to you ya gobshite*
[not sure if it's appropriate to joke]He requested flowers but no potpourri at his funeral.
[/not sure if it's appropriate to joke]
Sure, Joking about dead people is just fine, even if it does concern a politically very sensitive subject. So long none of the jokes involve anything serious and beyond the pale, like a dog dying or something.
got it? People dying jokes? Fine. Dog dying jokes? No!
I'm not sure we need to visit either the North Pole to know it's flipping cold or to visit a country to know when one of it's politicians is doing their best to stir up sectarian hatred?
No but i think the issues on which you are commenting are a little bit more complex and more difficult to measure than temperature
No but i think the issues on which you are commenting are a little bit more complex and more difficult to measure than temperature
There are not many "issues" being commented on here. More the death of an ex-1st Minister, who held some very bigoted views.
He may of mellowed when he got older but he was still a bigot.
Or are you suggesting he wasn't a bigot?
[i]a little bit more complex and more difficult to measure than temperature [/i]
Not from where most of the population are sat.
Ian Paisley = Protestant shouty man who (literally) preached hatred of the Pope and Catholics.
Didn't seem too difficult. Probably more difficult for me to measure the temperature at the North Pole I'd say.
CharlieMungus - MemberAny of these commentators actually from Norn Iron or been there?
You didn't have to, I could hear him from here.
Ok, Well I guess if you view it that simplistically, I'll not engage.
got it? People dying jokes? Fine. Dog dying jokes? No!
I had to stop myself on that thread
The Northern Ireland peace process would have happened 10 years earlier (at least) if it wasn't forstubborn, intolerant, entrenched, bigoted idiots like him, and his ilk!
Let's be fair, Northern Ireland wouldn't have needed a peace process if it weren't for stubborn, intolerant, entrenched, bigoted idiots like him, and his ilk!
[i]if you view it that simplistically, I'll not engage.[/i]
I think you should explain why preaching religious intolerance from a pulpit is a good Christian thing to do.
I don't think i said that it was, maybe you'd like to explain why it was a good thing?
so what is it about people's views of his behaviour that needs questioning?
[edit] sorry, you seemed to suggest I was wrong for sayign his behaviour was wrong - you're agreeing he was an intolerant religious bigot?
I think he was an intolerant bigot, I do not think that is all he was.
Perhaps he was an intolerant bigot who successfully represented the views of other intolerant bigots?
[i]I think he was an intolerant bigot, I do not think that is all he was[/i]
but sadly (and imo) at the time he most needed to not be an intolerant bigot he chose to be one.
He may have been the life and soul of the party, loved by his family and, in his later years, toned his rhetoric down a bit but when he could have been emollient he chose to be anything but and (again in imo)as a result more people died and the troubles continued for longer.
He wasn't the only one on either side doing this but he was very visibly doing it for a very long time.
I think he was an intolerant bigot, I do not think that is all he was.
Did the trains run on time?
Well, choice is a very loose term in such a context. He was a product of his environment.
[i]He was a product of his environment. [/i]
He chose to be a 'leader' that meant he had responsibilities, saying he was pushed through life spouting whatever the people behind him thought is no excuse.
Even if he represented a constituency of religiously intolerant bigots he did so by choice.
My favourite IP moment
He probably felt it was his responsibility to defend that which he believed in.
Well, we certainly spend a lot of time lamenting the shortage of conviction politicians in society nowadays...
[i]He probably felt it was his responsibility to defend that which he believed in.[/i]
sounds like it;
[i]He preached against homosexuality and supported laws criminalising it. Intertwining his religious and political views, "Save Ulster from Sodomy" was a campaign launched by Paisley[/i]
Sure, but at least you now see him as a more complex figure than the shouty bloke off the news when you were growing up
[i]at least you now see him as a more complex figure than the shouty bloke off the news when you were growing up [/i]
yep, he was bigoted in ways I hadn't previously realised.
I grew up in a mostly protestant area on the outskirts of Belfast and always viewed him as a bit of a comedy figure back in the day. He certainly didn't speak for me with his ultra conservative views, but he was loved by both sides of the community in his constituency of Ballymena for getting things done at a local level and I think that's why he kept getting elected. I could choose to remember him as the shouty extremist who contributed to the troubles as much as the guys on the other side who were blowing things up, or as the crazy preacher who banned ELO from doing a gig in Ballymena in the early '90s because they played the devils music, but he chilled out in his later years and formed a warm friendship with Martin McGuinness, the public face of the IRA. With that in mind I'll remember him as an example of the reconciliation that has occurred here in recent years and hopefully our current politicians will continue to follow this example.
I always thought that once the Catholic population where in the majority, they would be given the choice to join Eire?
It's a bit more complicated than that. There are many catholics who regard themselves as Northern Irish or British and wish to stay in the UK. In the last census 45% of the population was catholic but only 25% of the population considered themselves as only Irish. The nationalist politicians know this and I think that's why they've been relatively quiet about a referendum.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20673534 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20673534[/url]
Nooooooooooooooooooooo!
The question is: was that my initial reaction or an impersonation?
I'd love to be a fly on the pearly gates.
Fudd, some perspective at last.
Am I really the first to suggest dancing shoes?
yep, he was bigoted in ways I hadn't previously realised
Every day is a school day
a good politician who proved that everyone has to change sometimes.
He belatedly recognised that the new political reality post-Good Friday meant that he had to change his rhetoric. I don't see it as anything more than a political calculation.
Quotes from throughout his life:
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-29171017 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-29171017[/url]
Ian Paisley..................what a ****.
[Paisley]
Otter, otter rubbish!
[/Paisley]
These threads always reveal more about the posters than the subject. In this case a man has died and a number of people are getting off on pissing on his grave, calling him a bigot, and suggesting he is going to hell.
Which pretty much confirms that this forum lacks any real class or decency.
Badnewz, very well said, especially given this remarkable tribute from Gerry Adams:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/12/ian-paisley-northern-ireland-sinn-fein
Badnwez, perfectly put.
Perhaps when it came to life Ian Paisley simply became sick and tired of it.
He was a man of character whichever way you look at it. We could do with a lot more like him who have te courage of their convictions.
The simple, unavoidable fact is that Paisley was a religious bigot. I grew up in Northern Ireland in the 70s and 80s. Whilst he was without doubt an excellent constituency MP whatever your religion he spouted hatred and bile and innocent people died as a result, because cretins with guns and baseball bats swallowed what he spouted. And he must have known that. I for one won't mourn him.
badnewz - Membersuggesting he is going to hell.
Maybe it's a fair criticism, of a man who liked saying other dead people were in hell.
Who needs class or decency when a "celebrated" pro-life bigot dies?
All I ever knew of this man was his hate speech and that is enough to remember him by.
Just because someone is dead doesn't make them good, or make me respect or value their life.
I cannot stand this mock pious posturing of people saying "how dare you speak ill of the dead".
aracer - Member
Am I really the first to suggest dancing shoes?
DANCing shews? DANCING SHEWS??? WE REJYECT YOUR DANCING SHEWS IN THEIR ENTIRETY WITHOUT EXCEPTION, COMPROMISE OR HESITATION!
The Adams article is quite interesting. Must admit I wasn't aware how much Paisley was involved with the whole thing kicking off in the 60's. I just thought he was the one who blocked the Peace process once the Troubles started.
Well, we certainly spend a lot of time lamenting the shortage of conviction politicians in society nowadays...
Not if they had the wrong convictions.
Which pretty much confirms that this forum lacks any real class or decency.
To lessen the tone slighter more in a few peoples eyes, the world without him feels like a slighter better place already.