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saw a clip on bbc news,who'd have thought it eh 😉
we're all in this together btw 😆
Hmmmmm, it makes one wonder if they ever worked in the real world where expense fiddles = look for mew job.
Didn't IDS tell lies about his schooling as well?
It's all a big over-privileged club. They won't criticise each other, because they're all at, and they don't know who it is who'll be caught out next
I was thinking of writing to my MP along the lines of - 'presumably we're being led by example, so I would expect that the second London(*or wherever is most tax/cost saving efficient) homes that MPs have (even the ones who clearly live within a normal persons commute) are subject to being taxed on any uneccessary bedrooms ?'
I got a bollocking once for putting beer a few beers on my expenses when I got stuck on a job in the highlands. 🙁
There are street criminals, white collar criminals and then organised crime aka Politics.
Come the glorious revolution....
I think you'll find Mr Cameron takes a very firm line with expenses.
Nhs data, badger cull and plain packaging for fags stories all announced by this government on the same day as the maria millier story and laughable excuse for an apoogy. In fact, all within an hour of each other according to the telegraph. Fantastic! 👿
Yep we learnt what the Tories call the Done Thing in the 80's when they was last in power.
No matter what ever wrong doing,even caught doing wrong The Tories stuck by each other
even though the person/s was caught red handed.
Just don't know why everyone one is so surprised ?
Short memories come to mind !
Disgusting hypocrites, the lot of them. None are worthy of my vote.
Thank god we've the incredibly principled Labour Party, none of whom would be guilty of such things, to carry on forcing the issue, and demanding justice
Oh.... Erm.... Hang on a minute....
If Farage wants to increase his vote, using his tried, tested and very successful 'I 'm not one of them' method, he could just play the video of her contemptuous, 30 second non-apology on a loop, occasionally indespersed with Dave, IDS etc saying that she's made her apology, so the matters closed!
If Farage wants to increase his vote......
He best not remind people of UKIP expenses scandals.
https://www.google.co.uk/#q=ukip+expenses+scandal
Or how one of UKIP's most treasured party member, Neil Hamilton, disgraced himself as a government minister by accepting brown envelopes stuffed with cash in return for asking questions in parliament.
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/may/24/mps-expenses-ukip-nigel-farage ]Farange isn't adverse to playing the expenses game himself[/url]
The trouble is that that's the kind of thing he'd do as this anti-politics bandwagon he's got going. And it works! Because the kind of half-wit who votes UKIP isn't responding to reasoned political debate. It's just dog whistle politics. And MP's of all the main party's play right into his hands with this engrained arrogant contempt for the voters they're meant to represent. And Farage is fully exploiting that with his frankly ridiculous 'man of the people' shtick
Most other employees in the country would be sacked for what she did. Hopefully the electorate will do the correct thing come the next election if the government don't have the sense to do it now.
It is like doping and cycling. They need to crack down and rebuild confidence so that people actually trust them.
Getting back to the original point, it's particularly annoying to hear Iain Duncan Smith defending her, because he's the man who constantly parrots the phrase 'culture of entitlement' When referring to benefits claimants. If your talking about a culture of entitlement, then Maria Miller is the living embodiment of it!!
Couldn't agree more binners. The constant berating of the "benefits culture" when they ARE the f*** Benefits Culture! Claimed an incorrect unemployment / incapacity benefit? We'll nail your f**** arse to the wall Sonny-Jim. Committed FRAUD on your expenses claim? Oh well, pay back a very small percentage and make an insincere mealy-mouthed apology and we'll say no more about it. Bastards to a man.
Didn't she make over a million on the sale of the house she bought (partly) using her fiddled expenses? How about that for spongeing off the state.
Should be sacked and sent down.
binners - MemberThe trouble is that that's the kind of thing he'd do as this anti-politics bandwagon he's got going.
Which is ironic, considering he's been milking the system as an MEP for years. Maybe I give joe public too much credit but I'd like to think many people see him for what he is.
Even Norman Tebbit is saying she should go - this is the only time I have ever agreed with anything he has said and hopefully will the the last time!
Am I alone in feeling outraged that we are paying £90,000 to subsidise a politician's second house? And when they sell it they keep any gains? Disgusting.
And if expenses are found to be fiddled in the real world, you're not looking for another job- you'll not get one as no employer would touch you.
They're all the same and this stuff just makes me furious! Monday morning rant I know, but still!
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/maria-miller-to-face-criminal-proceedings
pretty sickening that IDS is all about stopping the evil benefit cheats while defending another benefit cheat at the other end of society
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Thanks for sharing that clip, Johnners. If Dave doesn't act, he's as guilty as she is.
slightly OT, very few people in this country vote FOR mps, they vote AGAINST parties.
Whole culture is very negative, no one ever comes out and says what they would do better, it is all about what they are doing wrong.
Loathsome as I'm sure she is, we do need to remember how much of the agenda of outrage is being fuelled by the media's self-interest post-Leveson. The minister responsible for media who has made plenty of noise about regulating the press? Release the Hounds!
This isn't particularly a party issue either, when you look at the composition of the committee that watered down the original, far more deadly, report on Miller.
Member Party
John Bercow (Chair) Speaker
Kevin Barron Labour
Mr Nicholas Brown Labour
Ms Angela Eagle Labour
Mr Andrew Lansley Conservative
Sir Bob Russell Liberal Democrat
Laura Sandys Conservative
Mr Charles Walker Conservative
What also really gets my goat in these MP scandals is that sacked actually means standing down from your position in cabinet. Still an MP, still getting paid and still claiming expenses.
Loathsome as I'm sure she is, we do need to remember how much of the agenda of outrage is being fuelled by the media's self-interest post-Leveson.
And lets also not forget that the press reaction has been fuelled by Maria Miller and her chums making not-even-thinly-veiled threats that it might be very wise, "given the timing" (her quotes) of media legislation, that they drop the story. Hardly Putin-esque I know, but hardly the behaviour you'd want the government indulging in with regards to having its dirty laundry aired.
On balance, I'm happier living in a country where the press, despite the far from subtle threats has rightfully told her to eff off, and published it. If she's getting savaged by a hostile press - then as with the rest of this sordid issue - she's only got herself to blame.
Who the **** does she think she is?!!!
On balance, I'm happier living in a country where the press, despite the far from subtle threats has rightfully told her to eff off, and published it. If she's getting savaged by a hostile press - then as with the rest of this sordid issue - she's only got herself to blame.
Open goal, really. I'm always slightly cautious of stories about folk involved with Leveson, particularly in the RW press, but on this occasion I can't really fault your summary!
Ok, lets just say that your sitting MP lives in their constituency and when they attend parliament they stay in a purpose built accommodation, one bed, whilst in London.
Doesn't one of the european counties do this
Mr laws, liberal, fiddled his expenses stepped out of the way whilst the flack is flying there brought back in, I'd love a liberal to stand at my door come election time
oh and the tuition fee?
Lets be honest Martin, both sides involved in this argument represent a pretty unpleasant and untrustworthy bunch.
But the bullying behaviour of the government to stop a supposedly free press publishing[b] facts [/b]about the blatant fraud committed by one of its senior members, is a pretty worrying development. And that has to make you wonder if they're happy to see this covered up, what else is there? And can they be trusted with press legislation? Everything they've done post-Leveson would suggest not.
Smartray, I was advocating this years ago! Why when they are attending parliament do they need a house? A one bed appartment is more than adequate. I cannot see why they need a second home. We are always hearing about the long hours they work, why do they need two houses, one funded by the public. It's doubly galling as when they sell the second home they can make a killing on it.
Purpose built halls of residence type accommodation during the week and back to their constituencies when possible. There is no reasonable argument against this.
And while were at it, lets move parliament to an industrial park in Runcorn, no need for the public to be paying for prime London real estate.
And can they be trusted with press legislation? Everything they've done post-Leveson would suggest not.
I wouldn't trust any politician. It's always about short term expediency and self-interest. What's the betting the Tories will start making warm noises about press freedom later this year?
I'm not even that fond of career regulator and inquiry man Ian Kennedy, though, so you can't win really.
And while were at it, lets move parliament to an industrial park in Runcorn
Steady on, I hate politicians as much as the next man but there are limits!
They could do worse than appoint Steve Coogan to sort out press regulation 😉
There a re a few issues here
1. Te independent regulator found she had over claimed by £45 k and parliament £5k - they wont trust the press to regulate themselves [ who would] but , as with pay rises, they have different rules for themselves.
2. both told her off for not engaging in the process, having contempt for the process is at least as damning as the original crime She cannot claim she did not know for both of these
3. i always thing what they Tory reaction would be were it a poor person denying they had a an extra bedroom and how they would treat them
She has to go. It is not even a political point, she cheated the system, she barely engaged with the process and her apology was , to put it mildly, unacceptable and not that believable.
Even the Tory membership are turning on here and only her mates in parliament seem to wish to defend her.
CMD has a pretty poor record of judgement on his pals. he appointed coulson and stood by him and now here......not great leadership or judgement IMHO
Hopefully the electorate will do the correct thing come the next election
I doubt it. The detestable Hazel Blears said the same thing and smugly sat back safe in the knowledge no-one in Salford could think any further than voting Labour, even though she is the result.
The process is wrong with MP's policing the matter, the judgement is wrong, and the sanctions are weak.
The policing of expenses should be with members of the public like a jury...after all the public elect them. The sanction is to be thrown out of Parliament, charged with fraud.
How about we privatise the expenses system, and base the contract around targets to remove 50% of claimants from the system each year.
Some interesting comment from a Tory viewpoint here...
I remember Radio 4 doing a report on the Japanese who have apartments for their legislative body, the maintenance costs are massive, because they are opulent even by japanese standards
can you imagine the cost of building apartments for all of our MPs? All 560 of them? then the endless furnishing costs? makes your eyes water....
I reckon the maximum allowable payment should be for the av cost of a 1bed flat anywhere within 8 miles of Westminster or the av cost of a 3 bed home in your constituency. No payments for furnishing
I'd be happy with a large upmarket halls of residence near Westminster. It would likely be cheaper to run than hotel bills and it would be an asset for the country
Its the profiteering that bothers me. If my company paid the interest on a mortgage for a weekday flat for me and I made a profit on the sale, HMRC would be all over it.
I'd be happy with a large upmarket halls of residence near Westminster.
How about we move them out of London. We could make use of those council blocks they were going to blow up in Glasgow instead? They could move their families in too. That pub at the bottom could double as a parliament building.
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The detestable Hazel Blears said the same thing and smugly sat back safe in the knowledge no-one in Salford could think any further than voting Labour, even though she is the result.
Indeed. A shining example of ****ishness being a truly cross-party affliction
I remember Radio 4 doing a report on the Japanese who have apartments for their legislative body, the maintenance costs are massive, because they are opulent even by japanese standardscan you imagine the cost of building apartments for all of our MPs? All 560 of them? then the endless furnishing costs? makes your eyes water....
Why does it need to be opulent? A basic but comfortable standard should more than suffice. If I work away from home, I am expected to go for a modest hotel.
then the endless furnishing costs?
How often do you expect to replace furniture?
If my company paid the interest on a mortgage for a weekday flat for me and I made a profit on the sale, HMRC would be all over it.
Exactly!
Politicians seem to think that they are some sort of elite class. They aren't. They are public servants.
She has to go. It is not even a political point, she cheated the system, she barely engaged with the process and her apology was , to put it mildly, unacceptable and not that believable.
Oh she engaged with it. I read all the publicly available email/letter transcripts between her and the commissioner. But she engaged in it in a way that basically said 'no case to answer, why don't you dismiss it' while faling to answer commissioner's quuestions. Then when she got found out for contradicting hereself, she appointed a lawyer to write about 30 pages on why she was being persecuted.
I cannot imagine how much time/money was spent in a year trying to write a report on what should be a simple matter. Whatever happens, the commissionershould be given the Nobel Peace Prize for patience.
it'll take about a hour to read, but at the end you will get a real feel for where the power is... and the contempt for external scrutiny.
Politicians seem to think that they are some sort of elite class. They aren't. They are public servants.
I can imagine the gales of laughter that interpretation of reality would be greeted by in one of the Westminster bars after a few brandies
Some of the anti-politician rhetoric on this thread is quite frankly ridiculous. It's clearly nonsense to claim that all politicians are the same.
And it's that sort of nonsense which plays straight into the hands of those with a right-wing anti-democratic agenda, such as Daily Mail columnists.
Yeah. I've seen that with boardroom execs who tell the all-staff meetings they are 'a servant to the employees and the customers'. No-one believes them either, but at least they're not funded - well directly anyway / bungs aside - from taxpayers money.
Some of the problem is no one useful wants to go into public service nowadays. And the ones that do, tend to have agendas that are not terribly public serving.
Actually, that's a terrible generalisation. I'm sure there are many hard working MPs then genuinely care for their constituants. I just haven't met one yet. Ours is Bill Wiggin, Majority tens of thousands. I've written to him about FoD sell off, etc. His replies (or the ones from his office) clearly show the value of my vote.
Churchill said it best "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."
Still he also said "“The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”
It's clearly nonsense to claim that all politicians are the same.
That's an assertion that needs some examples to back it up.
Yeah, I can think of many politicians of the present breed that are worthy of respect. Erm……… Hang on, it'll come to me….
No its no use. Every time I think of the houses of parliament, I just get this image in my head….
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"It's clearly nonsense to claim that all politicians are the same."That's an assertion that needs some examples to back it up.
Of course it doesn't need any examples to back it up.
And if you want to believe the gibberish nonsense that all politicians are the same then you're hardly likely to be swayed by actual facts.
well she's resigned (just heard on bbc news 😀
hopefully the police may have a little word now (no chance though 🙁
Of course it doesn't need any examples to back it up
It does; that's why I asked for some.
Instead you just dismiss the question and sneer that you know best. You aren't in politics are you?
She had to go - otherwise Dave would have been toasted in PMQ's today.
It has absolutely nothing at all with 'me knowing best', everyone knows full well that not all politicians are the same. So I see no reason why I should comply with your clearly ridiculous demand to prove that simple and indisputable fact. You are obviously looking for some sort of pointless argument.
She had to go.....
And there you completely contradict yourself ......why 'did she have to go' if all politicians are the same ? She will be simply replaced by someone exactly the same, according to you anyway.
You aren't in politics are you?
Of course you are above politics, aren't you ? I can tell by your air of superiority and the contemptuous and dismissive attitude with which you dismiss ALL politicians.
EDIT : And just to indulge you for a second, despite it being quite pointless, here is a thread where three weeks ago punters were queuing up to express that in their opinion, Tony Benn, famous for being a politician, was some sort of national treasure :
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/rip-tony-benn