[Closed] I want a Caravan that's not a Caravan!

I fancy doing a road trip up through europe with the dog so not sure really. I want my own toilet and shower.

A van on your own would be the simplest thing in the world. Stop legs down, done. No faffing with family crap.. Not jealous or anything... 🙂 Btw 2 berth vans are quite a bit cheaper than bigger ones when they get old.

OP, considered this?

[img] [/img]

Molgrips they do an xl which is bigger, but huge. Weighs about the same as a small sun.

Re the 800kg towing limit. The handbooks are unreliable. The legality is determined by the vin plate which gives the vehicle weights. Line 1 is the max weight of the car, line 2 is the max weight of the car plus van. 3 and 4 are axle weights.

So line 2 - line 1 = towing weight
Mine for example (unusually high) is 6300 - 3500 = 2800kg

There is some debate that if the car is not fully loaded, the difference can be added to the towing weight to increase capacity, however I think this is something the law doesn't specifically address and not intentional I.e it's a grey area. I down rated my trailer to 2800kg to be safe.

With the 85 - 100% tow car advice it is normally irrelevant anyway.

joeegg - Member

Eskay,i think you have your weights wrong.
I have a 1.8 Mondeo and tow a 'van with an unladen weight of 1100kg and max laden of 1330 kg.
A make such as Lunar or the Bailey Rangers would come into this weight bracket for a 4 berth caravan.

I think mine has a lower limit because it is an Econetic model and the gearing affects it.

molgrips - Member

From what I have read, that means that the rating badge on the caravan for MTPLM must be 800kg or lower.

Hmm.. I don't THINK that's a legal thing, but I'm not sure. I would be stopped if I tried to tow up to the limit given in the Passat's logbook, which is 1800kg.

My Dad's focus (petrol 1.6) is limited by the maximum permissible gross train weight.

Some chatter on your car here: http://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/chatter/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=20&TopicID=251852 There seems to be a discrepancy between the manual and what's written on the plate on this guy's car.

Thanks for the link, having read through it is still not clear, there are quite a few opinions!

Some seem to think the MTPLM must not exceed the maximum towing limit on the V5 (800kg in my case) whilst others seem to think it can exceed 800kg as long as the gross train weight is not exceeded!

Eskay - can you see what the plate says on your car, out of interest?

@Molgrips
You couldn't put a car on the roof of the english caravans when I bought the German one..

I think the fact that a lot of english bought German Caravans that
1)Didn't leak.
2)Were strong and light as opposed to some hardboard tat.
3)Had a contemporary look as opposed to velour an tassles.
4)Werent wildly overpriced.
(I paid £8.5k for something that would have been £15k)

Sorta forced the British to up their game.

I prefer a caravan over motorhome as you can detach and just drive the car as opposed to takeing the HGV to the shops.

I own a caravan but cant stand carvanning clique tbh.

Our car can tow 3500kg so I may just put some wheels on the house 😉

and who wants to carry a load of beer back on a bike?)

caravan's are flawed solutions, they aren't as mobile as a tent, and complexity of pitching really isn't a consideration (I put up a vango 6000 pretty much on my own, took about 15 minutes to pitch/strike it)
but you don't get the experience of a proper bed and bathroom that you get in a hotel, or a villa if you want to self cater
the costs of the van is daft compared to hotel prices and you are limited by range - once you have a van you end up only holidaying in it because you've lashed all that money on it...

and other caravanners !!

Get one of these and the world is your lobster

[img] [/img]

We have been through quite a few phases of camping.
Tents are great and we still use them but they can make a holiday miserable.

We had a campervan for a few years and we loved it but it needed maintenance frequently, MOT's etc. We also found that we moved on to quickly. We would pack everything up, go for a drive and then you think oh lets keep on going up the road and find somewhere new. We would spend a lot of time travelling and too little time absorbing places. That is the temptation of freedom.

Big motorhomes rob you of freedom, they are so limiting in where you can go.

When our daughter was born we wanted more room so went for a folding camper. The towing is easy, the space is lovely and it feels great sleeping under canvas in most conditions. Downside is packing it away dry becomes an obsession.

We then moved on to the dreaded caravan and it is the best of all worlds for us. We live in a small cottage with a very large garden so it comes in to the garden and makes a great self contained guest bedroom. We spend the time enjoying places. We can go out in the car and bikes etc are left secured in the porch awning with no hassle of clearing things away before you can move.

Our daughter loves it beyond words. We have done five star all inclusives and disney but she would take a weekend in the caravan anyday. We have had 160 days holidays in 25 months.

[img] [/img]
Ignore the giddy childs bum enjoy the view.

[img] [/img]

I do wonder if anything like the Australian folding campers you get will ever come to the UK. Not so much the off-road capabilities but that sort of design.

With the one my parents have you can use the kitchen (cooker, fridge, sink) without the trailer being unfolded so perfect for brew stops. All the storage is under the double mattress which you can access by lifting it when it's unfolded or via a hatch in the back when it's folded.

I've never seen anything even similar to that in the UK but they're everywhere in Australia.

I have a feeling that caravans are going to become fashionable with your chattering classes ...

caravan's are flawed solutions

It's a matter of perspective. They are as mobile as a big family tent, but far more comfortable and easier. Not as comfortable as a hotel bathroom wise but I'd far rather spend a day on a caravan site (even if I didn't go out, which I always do) than spend a day in a hotel.

You can get quick easy tent setups and I have one - I use it when we fly to America. The whole family's camping gear fits in one duffel. It has its place. But the van is way more comfortable.

You might be able to pitch your tent in 15 mins but you'd also need to set up your seating, beds, lights, cooker, unpack food, and pack it all away when you are finished. This is far more work than caravanning - I know, I've done both extensively.

the costs of the van is daft compared to hotel prices

I dunno, mine cost £1,500. A dozen nights in a hotel?

I've never seen anything even similar to that in the UK

They were very popular when I was a kid.

This is how long it takes to set up an australian style folding camper

I've seen folding campers in the UK but they're nothing like the ones above.

I quite like the idea of a demountable camper on the back of a pickup.

Tempted to get a LR 110 twin cab pickup as a farm vehicle and build a carbon fibre demountable camper for it (got lots of rolls of carbon cloth lying around).

^ I'd subscribe to that thread! Get it done!

http://www.northstarcampers.co.uk/

Lol though, £19k and it's a pokey crappy little shoebox. I'd rather camp!

I was thinking something like this:

[img] [/img]

(had the idea to do that to a T5 years ago when I acquired all this carbon fibre)

Just get a caravan 🙂

I just can't do it. I can't bring myself to tow a caravan!

Anyone got an old Astra?

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edit: okay, I could tow one of these:

[img] [/img]

I just can't do it. I can't bring myself to tow a caravan!

Lol.. I suggest aversion therapy. A forced caravan holiday, you can borrow mine 🙂

Actually you can hire them - could be worth a try.

*Mrs. Doyle*- Oh. g'wan---g'wan g'wan-- *Mrs. Doyle*

you know you want to!

Perhaps it's becoming more acceptable to non-believers, can't believe the lack of flaming on here!!

Lol.. I suggest aversion therapy. A forced caravan holiday, you can borrow mine

Actually you can hire them - could be worth a try.

I had considered hiring one as the OH wants to go away down to Devon at the end of the month.

Problem is I don't have my towing license so I can tow up to 750kg or more provided the total weight does not exceed 3500kg and I am within the vehicles max tow weight. One reason for getting the freelander is it's actually quite light but can tow 2000kg.

Note in option 2 they just state the weight of the vehicle not it's MAM: https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car

Just been making enquiries about getting my test done. I've been towing livestock around in our 750kg trailer for a few years and have been towing a 3500kg trailer on a tractor no problem but am expecting to need a bit of tuition as I've never had any instruction so it soon adds up. Then I need to do my 7.5T license 🙁

Problem is I don't have my towing license so I can tow up to 750kg or more provided the total weight does not exceed 3500kg and I am within the vehicles max tow weight.

You have a freelander?

Gross vehicle weight is about 2,000kg so you can tow a van up to 1,500kg on your license. Should be easy to find, you don't need a towing license.

molgrips - Member
Eskay - can you see what the plate says on your car, out of interest?

2255
3055
1125
1185

You have a freelander?

Gross vehicle weight is about 2,000kg so you can tow a van up to 1,500kg on your license. Should be easy to find, you don't need a towing license.

yup,

kerb weight is about 1600kg (quite light tbh) and max vehicle weight is about 2080kg (need to check the plate on ours as it's an auto) and max braked is 2000kg so I should be able to tow up to 1420kg MAM.

Although if you look at the .gov site for post 1997 but pre 2013 it only states that the MAM of the trailer and the actual weight of the vehicle must be below 3500kg so if we know we are under the Freelanders MAM then I could tow more according to what is on the link.

Post 2013 it states that the combined MAMs must be under 3500kg.

Other change is I can drive a 3500kg MAM vehicle with a 750kg MAM trailer but post 2013 can only drive a 2750kg MAM vehicle with a 750kg MAM trailer.

Until I have my trailer test the Freelander was a good choice for towing really. I did want a Discovery TD5 or TDV6 but the extra weights (400-800kg) means I could tow sod all until I get the test done.

what is a typical caravan MAM?

And from elswehere on the .gov.uk site: You can also tow larger trailers if: - the combined trailer and vehicle weight isn’t more than 3,500kg - the fully-loaded trailer weight isn’t more than the unladen vehicle weight

They do seem quite inconsistent with the way they put across the info.

From that I would also infer that I could tow a 1600kg trailer with the Freelander as the Freelander min weight is 1600kg. Then I would just need to add load to both until I reach the 3500kg combined provided the trailer doesnt exceed the car weight. The last bit wasnt mentioned on the other page but is something I know anyway.

A lot of the trailer instruction places seem to twist the info to their advantage and make it sound like you can't tow anything.

A lot of the trailer instruction places seem to twist the info to their advantage and make it sound like you can't tow anything.

That's true, nearly enrolled 5 blokes on a course, then read through the regs again, and realised he was wrong..

what is a typical caravan MAM?

It's MTPLM (maximum technical permissble laden mass), and that's about 1000-1200 for older vans and for new ones somewhere between 1300 for a light one and 1500 ish for a heavy single axle. The double axle ones go up to about 1750 or so.

The MIRO (mass in running order ie kerb weight) of caravans is only about 200kg less than the MTPLM for older vans and 150 ish for newer ones, so that's all the payload you can put in.

eskay - the second number is your gross train weight, so if your kerb weight is only 1500kg you have about 1500kg ish to play with. This is plenty for a van. You will only come into trouble if you fill your car with bricks or rubble or something and then try and tow. A 1200kg van would then be ok as long as you didn't bring more than 300kg worth of people and gear in/on the car!

Caravan towing 'guidelines' for safe and happy towing are MTPLM 85% of the kerb weight of the car, with 100% being acceptable with a modern van and car.

andyl,

If you are doing a towing test (B+E) and then expect to do a 7.5t (C1) test, just do C1 and then C1+E as it shouldn't cost much more. Or in fact, C+E as its not really any harder except mastering a bigger gearbox and spatial awareness.

The only advantage of doing B+E and then C1 is when your C1 expires due to age/inability to pass your medical, hopefully you will retain the B+E entitlement.

I did my B+E first as I needed it for personal use and my employer had kept me waiting ages for my C+E.

molgrips - Member

eskay - the second number is your gross train weight, so if your kerb weight is only 1500kg you have about 1500kg ish to play with. This is plenty for a van. You will only come into trouble if you fill your car with bricks or rubble or something and then try and tow. A 1200kg van would then be ok as long as you didn't bring more than 300kg worth of people and gear in/on the car!

Thanks molgrips. So the 800kg on the V5 is based on the car being fully loaded.

So, if I ever got pulled in they would use the gross train weight and compare that to the weighbridge reading?

I really have my heart set on getting one for next year. My kids race most weekends over the summer and we rack up a reasonable hotel bill. Being able to take caravan and make a weekend of it instead would be great.

So the 800kg on the V5 is based on the car being fully loaded.

No. The 800kg on the V5 is basd on the EU standard pulling away test, which means you can pull away on a 12% slope 5 times in 5 mins or somethign with the car fully loaded (I think).

So, if I ever got pulled in they would use the gross train weight and compare that to the weighbridge reading?

As I understand it, yes, but better check for sure.

Love this;

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More here;

[url= http://www.adn.com/article/20140907/rocket-man-bill-guernsey-and-his-atomic-camper ]http://www.adn.com/article/20140907/rocket-man-bill-guernsey-and-his-atomic-camper[/url]

anagallis_arvensis is the ABI adventurer for sale ? I don't know how to message you but I would be interested in buying it if it is

IF it is, prepare for some serious gazumping....

Not for sale, we only just bought it.....seems we got it for an amazing price too!

I regularly cycle past an abi adventurer and I have never seen it move, quite a waste.

We got one of these after getting fed up with the faff of tent pitching and having had the weather ruin a few trips..

Camplet :-

[IMG] [/img]

[img] [/img]

All the flexibility of camping, without the stigma and downsides of towing a big van.... pitches really quickly too...

Having said that, despite saying that I'd never lower myself to having a caravan we have now upgraded to that... better protection from the weather and much more comfort means we use it more.

We park it up for the summer in a chosen location so don't do too much towing.

(That reminds me must put that Camplet up for sale!)

I bought a Knaus brought it home last week

My idea of caravanning:
[img] [/img]

i used to work for a guy who imported and renovated Airstreams and rented them out for promotional work.... polishing them was a PITA. took forever.

Tiger - what model?

CZ - that's what it looks like when we caravan, except not as shiny and not as hipstery. Airstreams are incredibly heavy and way too lifestyle for me... I sometimes think half the scorn handed out to caravanners is because people think it's all big sites with shops and entertainments and people putting vases of flowers on bloody doileys in their window then sitting inside watching bloody Emmerdale and coming to the same place every year to meet Dave and Linda from bloody Bedford for the same two weeks and talk about their towing vehicles and tut at people who park their caravans wrong..

[url= http://www.sylvansport.com/camper/lightweight-camping-trailer/ ]Sorted.[/url]

[img]www.tuvie.com/wp-content/uploads/sylvansport-go-.jpg[/img]
[img] [/img]

I sometimes think half the scorn handed out to caravanners is because people think it's all big sites with shops and entertainments and people putting vases of flowers on bloody doileys in their window then sitting inside watching bloody Emmerdale and coming to the same place every year to meet Dave and Linda from bloody Bedford for the same two weeks and talk about their towing vehicles and tut at people who park their caravans wrong..

maybe more to do with this.....

[img] [/img]

or this...

[img] [/img]

🙂

Tiger - what model?

Deseo Plus

http://www.knaus.de/en/caravans/deseo/layout-plans/deseo-plus.html

Nice, but I'd worry about the fuel economy!

Didn't seem to make much difference, it's pretty light at 750kg

What were you towing with?

My 800kg van reduces my mpg from 60 to about 32! Air resistance is the main factor.

[img] [/img]

It's really basic, no hot water, no shower but it's exactly what we want.

It's light, dead easy to tow and seemed like a sensible next step from a tent. Does't feel too caravany inside.

We just wanted a place to crash at the end of a long day and we aren’t too bothered about having to many luxurious extras. We haven't bought it to live inside it, it has fixed bunks for our kids, space for bikes and gear inside.

No carpets and no brown twee button couches & no net curtains

Going to put a couple of Thule roof bar racks on the draw bar as it's really long.

The plan is to change the colour to a silver at some point.

And it's the same width as the car which is handy

And it's the same [s]width[/s] shape as the car which is [s]handy[/s] confusing!

Looks just the job. Have you had the first trip yet?

Putting bike racks on the draw bar could add too much noseweight. I'd suggest a noseweight gague as an important accessory - this applies to any caravanner tbh.

no net curtains

I haven't seen net curtains in a caravan for about 35 years 🙂

Re the luxuries.. we recently stayed for 9 days on a site with no showers or toilets.. so the ones in our van came in handy 🙂

[quote=molgrips a dit]
My 800kg van reduces my mpg from 60 to about 32! Air resistance is the main factor.

I get 45 fro mmy 1.8 petrol on a motorway run when not towing, goes down to about 28-30 when I'm towing a caravan. it helps to cruise at 56 to 58 or so, like all the lorries.

Looks just the job. Have you had the first trip yet?

Not yet

Re the luxuries.. we recently stayed for 9 days on a site with no showers or toilets.. so the ones in our van came in handy

We are used to tents, we camp in France for our summer hols, a tap and bed are luxury 😉

Yeah, I always cruise at lorry speed.. otherwise you're clogging the middle lane constantly with a 2mph speed differential, and getting buffeted too.

Is that with a 1.8 turbo?

maybe more to do with this..

nicely cropped to make it look like the car towing the caravan is causing the queue 🙂

[quote=molgrips a dit]Yeah, I always cruise at lorry speed.. otherwise you're clogging the middle lane constantly with a 2mph speed differential, and getting buffeted too.
Is that with a 1.8 turbo?

indeed, I rarely move out of the inside lane. No,.it's a v50 1.8 se so just standard, no turbo (don't think so anyway - don't really care). Don't do enough miles to justify a diesel

Ah, a safe haven for the sad bastards...

We'll be going off in my old mans Senator again this year, just need to get a new car (odds on Mondeo) to avoid the hell that is a C8 for towing the damn thing (horrible car with the instruments in the middle of the dash for some unknown reason).

Love it, if he hadn't got one I would have (albeit smaller). Missus can pull it as well which is handy, not too shabby at reversing (until female selective deafness occurs when hitching up *:P)

*She's reading this as I type. Nosey bum.

My mum would never tow a caravan, so I'm glad my wife will. Although she doesn't fancy manoevring it.. especially after the palaver experienced trying to pull onto the site at Easter.. got stuck, had to reverse back onto a (deserted) road in the dark completely blind. With lights on, dazzled by the van front lights; with them off - dark, obv.

We've got a thirty year old Eriba Puck, it's the same width as the Doblo and only about four inches higher with the roof closed and it weighs nowt, the mpg dropped from 54 to 52 on a recent 160 mile trip and you can't really feel it's there when towing,
The alloy construction means it's dry as a bone with no damp or mildew and the beds mega comfy,
They fetch strong money in good nick though..

I must admit, we saw some really nice vans recently when going to our dealer to pick up £1 parts for our old heap of crap.. however the sheer size of newer vans is somewhat intimidating!

Our current one is 18" long but the newer ones are quite a bit higher and wider.

Our current one is [b]18"[/b] long but the newer ones are quite a bit higher and wider.

Blimey, that's a compact one.... 😉

Yeah.. no bed required, we just wedge ourselves in standing up .

😆

Airstream Mercedes Touring Coach is what you want.

[img] [/img]

^ playing with the build your own function is fun

Airstream Mercedes Touring Coach is what you want.

I'll add that to the list of things I don't need, but want, and will only buy when I win the lottery 🙂

(I know, as a lottery winner you don't really need a motorhome, but it would be handy for going to races).

^ Base model is a reasonable $150k.

I had never heard of them before until I saw one last week, googled and fell in love.

Base model is a reasonable $150k.

In that case I'll take two 😀

[img] [/img]

Airstream Mercedes Touring Coach is what you want.

No way!

No way!

Yes way! It'd be ideal for going to races - turn up, park somewhere near the start line, no need for a campsite or whatever, and marginally less obvious than a caravan.

Yeah but I holiday besides races.

I'd still caravan if I won the lottery. I'd rather a field in the middle of nowhere than a hotel.

Course I might have a motorhome as well, just for races 🙂

Course I might have a motorhome as well, just for races

I never said you couldn't have both. You could even get new net curtains 🙂

I'm struggling to see what's so special about that Airstream, I've seen self build conversions that look more appealing. That's also gonna be a [i]really[/i] comfy bed with all those ridges and lovely slidey leather.

Molgrips, get an electric mover, only peasants push 😛

I have a mover, it came on my first knackered old van and I nicked it for my newer van when I sold it, along with the stabiliser. The radio doesn't work so I have to use a cable, and my leisure battery's knackered so it doesn't work very well.. 🙂

[img] [/img]

Best of both worlds then molgrips?

Lounge setup in the van, luxury kitchen and bedroom in the trailer.

[img] [/img]

solves the issue of packing up the motorhome nicely

I'm pretty upset that this thread can get to 5 pages without someone posting this (unless it's in one of those broken links)

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