[Closed] I think I've been sacked and I'm not sure of the legality of it.

I’ve been in this job 7 months.

Then It’s legal. They don’t have to give a reason, or you have to prove it was unfair dismissal due to discrimination.

Doesn't sound right to me. If you are a threat to the business they can put you on gardening leave with pay (Happened to my wife) or if you have been dismissed for time keeping there should be a disciplinary paper trail documenting the times it happened and what action they took I'd have thought?

Boss is an arse, but it is unlikely to be worth your while or the hassle and stress of pursuing any sort of recompense. Inside the first year of employment we sadly have few rights. Enjoy the days off?

They should still pay your 4 days plus any accrued holiday.

Sounds like they probably won’t though. ☹️

Inside the first year of employment we sadly have few rights.

2 years.

Pick your fights. That sounds like one bit worth having. Focus on your new job.

He's not done it right, you are on gardening leave. While as tom Howard says above, be released, without any real reason, it doesn't mean that they can do it without giving notice. in this case, as you already have resigned, it'll be until the end of when your notice runs out.
Now, you have to understand that it'll probably be a pretty drawn out process to go after it, it'll take more than 4 days, and may involve lawyer costs to write a couple of threatening letters. Is that worth it you for 4 days pay? No one else can make that assessment..

As the others have said legal remedies are few and far between on this. Yes you have been sacked unlawfully probably but as you have no recourse to tribunal there is little you can do. For 4 days pay you need to decide how much hassle is worth it?

Some things that come to mind. You could threaten to sue for breach of contract - which this is. Not particularly easy to do but you could probably get a lawyer to write a threatening letter fairly cheaply and that might be enough to get him to cough up or similarly you could use fast track courts (small claims) to sue for unpaid wages. this probably has a decent chance of working and doesn't cost you much.

Check TUC site for advice. What does your union say?

Walk away with the smug satisfaction that you definitely made the right decision to leave and that you wouldn't have wanted to continue working for someone that treats their staff that way.

Most of the replies so far on this thread are wrong. You may have few relevant enforceable employment rights but you do still have contractual rights. Being paid is one of them.

Let me see if I've got this right:

You've resigned, for which you contractually have to give a month's notice.
A few days later the boss has sacked you, for which he contractually has to give a month's notice.
So, whilst technically I assume he can do this your termination date will be after you've already left, so it's irrelevant.

So then if as you seem to suggest he's done it with immediate effect, he's in breach of contract?

he’s in breach of contract?

Of course he is. The problem is that the means of enforcing that contract are inadequate and probably more costly than losing 4 days pay.

I’d do it anyway on general principle but I’m vindictive like that.

The reasons I’ve been given are that I’m a threat to the business

I would have a quiet word with him, explain that really you weren't a threat to the business until now. Give him a cold dead eyed smile and leave.

Oh FFS!

Tom howard is 100% right. (both his replys) Nothing else here is worth commenting about.
Get a new job OP. Or don't bother. but move on anyway.
Your (ex)boss sounds like a prick.

A few days later the boss has sacked you, for which he contractually has to give a month’s notice.

Not really. You can be sacked with immediate effect for gross misconduct offences such as going to the toilet at 8am when your boss fancies having a chat.

As above, the pay thing is enforceable, but would be a massive ballache. Maybe worth a couple of threatening letters which sound like you are going to pursue it, certainly if there are any HR people lurking about.

Other than a small(?) saving of 4 days pay, is there any other advantage to the boss of having sacked the OP rather than letting the resignation run its course?

Other than a small(?) saving of 4 days pay, is there any other advantage to the boss of having sacked the OP rather than letting the resignation run its course?

Unfortunately, lots of people don’t think logically when it comes to this sort of thing.

When I handed in my notice in my last job, one of the Directors wanted to have me escorted out of the building there and then in case I “ took any of the files off the server”

Even when it was pointed out that I had enjoyed unlimited remote access to these files for the preceding three yearsand could have already taken everything I desired at my leisure .

Unfortunately he was overruled and I had to work a month instead.

is there any other advantage to the boss of having sacked the OP rather than letting the resignation run its course?

Have you had your reference yet, OP? I know most of them are bland to the point of nothingness...but...

I have another job lined up which doesn't need a reference from this employer.

I thought Tom's advice was the situation before I posted, so it's interesting to have some contradictory advice to that.

Here’s what the actual Government have to say about it.....

https://www.gov.uk/dismissal

Basically, unless they’ve dismissed you for Gross Misconduct then , regardless of your length of service, you’re entitled to at least the Statutory Notice period of a week.

Get a sternly written letter written outlining your expectation of receiving your payment.

Is the 4 days pay worth the stress of trying to get it from a company that obviously isn't going to cooperate? Move on, hope the new job is better.

Get a sternly written letter written outlining your expectation of receiving your payment.

this by registered post or an email state facts (only) date notice given contract terms date told leave premises date expect to be paid up to based on notice given (holiday adjustments?) date on which expect to get paid as per normal pay run or prior

this assumes your employer didn't acknowledge your resignation in writing and confirm final pay and date and date of leaving? presume a small business so will either throw in bin or give to whoever uses for employment rights advise who hopefully will tell him easier to just pay

INAL but seen similar happen when recruited people Good Luck

If you need more specific advice send me a message - you know this is Mrs TJs area.

Sounds to me like 4 days to cause some mischief. Send pizzas in for the team at lunch, obviously cash on delivery with your bosses name on it. Phone some suppliers and cancel / double orders. or just write it off and ride your bike.

Here’s what the actual Government have to say about it…..

That can't possibly be true because geex says it's not

Hang fire and wait to see if you get paid for those 4 days then consider your options.Most places I've worked where you're paid monthly payroll has already gone through a week before month end.

Hang fire and wait to see if you get paid for those 4 days then consider your options

This seems a good idea. Also, as your ex-boss seems to be a petty twunt, he may come up with various schemes to delay/cancel your final pay if he knows you're fighting him.

There's been a bit of an interesting development. Friday was supposed to be payday and rather than not paying me for the four days they, so far, haven't paid me at all for April. I phoned the office at 4pm on Friday and the director said his wife was dealing with payroll (which she normally does, she is also a director in the company) and wasn't in. I asked him to get her to call me as I don't have her number.

Since then I have been paid my outstanding expenses but not my salary. They have dodged my calls and not responded to my emails asking what's going on. What can I do?

Just leave and forgot about the place... You're basically on to plumbs at 7 months.

Bollocks to that. They can get rid of you without excuse inside 2 years, but trumping some shit up to rip you off for that much contractual pay is just low, and you should treat it as a fun hobby to go after the bastards and cause them as much additional grief as possible.

It's less hassle just to tan the windaes and slash tyres tbh! 😆

I wasn't excluding that as an additional pleasure at some point down the line. 🙂

tbh, best option is probably just to turn up to the office, and ask for wages, in a civil manner, infront of the other staff members, make sure they know he's be a tit.

Hopefully they'll all start thinking about leaving too.

Do that, and send a letter threatening legal action.

Other than that I would just move on with my life and put it down to experience.

I would get a lawyer to write a letter to HR explaining you expect to be paid. It will be their headache, and I’m sure they will be a lot more cautious- I know plenty of bosses that go ‘sack him’ only for HR to rightly tell them to act properly.

It's an age since I looked at employment law but IIRC withholding pay was something the tribunals made easy to pursue. CAS website will tell you.

There was some stuff about withholding pay on R4 on Friday lunchtime... might be worth listening to as they were saying something about additional rights kicking in if pay is withheld, and then being able to claim any additional charges/fees etc which are a result of not being paid...

Funkynick- any idea which show? It doesn't appear in the synopsis of You and Yours which is where I'd expect it to be.

I  think it was Money Box, R4 Saturday at 12 midday. About a company planning to change how they paid wages, so employees  would go without pay for a few weeks.

How do you feel about going there tomorrow and demanding payment - making a bit of a scene as well. You have done nothing wrong!

https://unpaidbritain.org/guide-to-claiming-unpaid-wages/

1) Contact employer in writing asking for wages - email + first class post. As they're overdue, ask for payment within 14 days.
2) After 14 days contact ACAS.
3) When your employer ignores that go straight to small claims at county court.

Don't get wound up, don't waste a thought on your former employer. Just treat it as 3 letters to get n pounds.

And join a union when you start your next job regardless of grade or whether they're recognised.

Is small claims court applicable?

tbh, best option is probably just to turn up to the office, and ask for wages, in a civil manner, infront of the other staff members, make sure they know he’s be a tit.

Hopefully they’ll all start thinking about leaving too.

Do that, and send a letter threatening legal action.

^^^ This. But you MUST keep it civil, assertive but polite and totally emotionless. You want to ensure ex colleagues see, but not give the bosses any excuse to tar you as a "nutter", "emotional" or anything else to colleagues or worse, the old bill.

Make it very clear to them that they owe you your money, they need to pay it there and then in your presence or not only will you go legal, you'll contact local media, start posting to their social channels and also start getting in touch with key clients to let them know. That should get their attention.

A bit of an update on this – Citizen’s Advice said they were in the wrong not paying me to the end of my notice period and suggested I write a letter demanding the payment within 7 days, after which I’d refer the matter to ACAS and, if necessary, take it to a tribunal.

They didn’t meet the deadline, which was last Thursday, so I have opened a case with ACAS but nothing has happened with it yet as I’ve not spoken to one of their conciliators.

I got a letter yesterday saying that they’d pay me for three days (about £250 after tax). However, they’ve also taken £140 off me for membership of a professional body they’d paid for. As far as I can tell, because the contract between us was terminated when they sacked me, they have no contractual right to withhold this money. Can anyone confirm that?

Regardless of whether or not they’re allowed to or not, should I cut it and run with the £250 and write off the £140? I’m tempted – it’d save the hassle of conciliation and a tribunal.

TBH mate, it's a few quid... forget it and move on.

Regardless of whether or not they’re allowed to or not, should I cut it and run with the £250 and write off the £140? I’m tempted – it’d save the hassle of conciliation and a tribunal.

For £140 it's not worth the grief.

I'd just make sure that anyone else in the industry that you 're talking to knows what they're like if you're ever asked.

I'd take a degree of satisfaction if I knew that that £140 had cost them dearly in terms of future work or difficulty in recruitment down the line.

I would go for the 140 as unless stated in the contract they have no right to deduct it but you have to ask yourself if it's worth it

How much is your time worth? How many hours af additional effort is it going to take you with CB, ACAS and a tribunal?

Thought you were talking about more money than this.. take the 250 and move on.

Maybe time for a subject access request under GDPR.

I'd hold on for ACAS advice, I thought the case was cut and dried? Don't let the ****s win.

Your contract may say something about the £140.

Did they pay you for April in the end? Your last post on that suggested not in which case don't they owe you way more than 3 days pay?

Nixie - sorry, I missed a bit out there. I did, eventually, get paid my salary but it didn't include the last three days of my notice period and they'd taken some money out for my professional body membership.

Just re-read my contract and it says nothing at all about deductions from final pay except for holiday pay.

They really hate you don't they 😉 . We are allowed one professional membership paid annually. Nothing about recovering it on termination. I'd take it further, just for the fun of it. Your next company will done out on the stories!