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Indeed...got carried away. That'll teach me to link to twitter before checking veracity. My apologies.
deadlydarcy - Member
it clearly shows French police doing the bare minimum.
Presumably they're doing the bare minimum as it appears to be a video taken in Ukraine
beaten to it 🙂
After years of England terrorising the football world they're now the victms.
Met a guy who went to France 98, he mentioned that one day he (and his mates) saw a sea of orange coming down the street, "What were we supposed to do?" he asked me.
I had the pleasure of being in a European capital while Man Utd were visiting and witnessed a group of fans shouting down a group of kids who were trying to have a bit of banter.
Victims my arse!
Looks like Ukranian police tbh, Deadly.
Edit: That'll teach me to not refresh the page before replying. All the same, that guy must have been sore/dead in the morning.
I'm struggling to feel a great deal of emotion or sympathy - as an outsider it just seems to be what (some) footballers supporters seem to do. Lack of education, lack of culture, bunch of retards who knows but for as long as I've been alive it's the sport that seems to attract those 'types' irrespective of nationality.
What I can't fathom however is what goes through the heads of cabinet ministers sat around the table who sanction an application to host a championships. Surely it's a headache no one sane would volunteer for.
Well reasoned and balanced article from Ian MacIntosh, Guardian/ESPN, about the trouble so far:
Seems Polish and N.I fans have just been chilling in Nice, but have come under attack from locals.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/violence-nice-northern-ireland-poland-8171259
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=599_1465686321
It's lazy to look at other sets of fans and point at that there had been very little trouble elsewhere. England are the scalp that everyone wants as they travel in larger numbers than everyone else and are more boisterous than everyone else. All eyewitness accounts I've heard and evidence I've seen has indicated that the trouble has occurred as a result of bewildering incompetency from the French police and a committed and savage group of Russian hooligans plus some local Ultras.
It amazes me that a developed country like France can **** up an event like this so badly.
Look at all the bother England fans had during the qualifiers.... oh what's that, virtually none.
Brits attacking the police, Russians attacking Brits. Brits fleeing Russians.
Didn't realise that Wales and Northern Ireland fans were involved. Shocking.
What I can't fathom however is what goes through the heads of cabinet ministers sat around the table who sanction an application to host a championships. Surely it's a headache no one sane would volunteer for.
I couldn't agree more. This tournament is the last thing France needs given the ongoing security situation.
Professional sport has grown into a monster, the amount of money on the table is ridiculous and with that comes huge corruption.
That's not a bad appraisal in your first article, Bongo. As for the tear gas thing, police always use tear gas here once a crowd gets rowdy, it's a tradition. The police hate using it because they usually get a good dose themselves. In Britain you expect mounted police, in German water canons, in parts of Asian live rounds.
This tournament is the last thing France needs given the ongoing security situation.
Just like the London Olympics, which went very well. You don't cancel an event because of a "terror" threat unless you want more terror threats. You don't pay blackmailers.
@Edukator, I'm not sure your average French police officer would agree.
Football tournaments are far more difficult to manage security-wise than the Olympics due to the hooligan element, which seems particularly organised this year, and heightened due to the rise of nationalism in Europe.
Didn't realise that Wales and Northern Ireland fans were involved. Shocking.
The Welsh fans will end up being attacked just like the English fans were when they play Russia. Then I think the anti-English hostility on this forum might start to change somewhat.
People seem to be blaming the French authorities and the poor security, but what saddens me the most is that people still go to these things with the sole intention of fighting: It is a festival of sport and you shouldn't need draconian policing.
@Edukator, I'm not sure your average French police officer would agree.
Football tournaments are far more difficult to manage security-wise than the Olympics due to the hooligan element, which seems particularly organised this year, and heightened due to the rise of nationalism in Europe.
Agreed. Olympics supporters are almost without exception compliant and respectful. (Some) Football supporters behaviour makes it so much more difficult for the authorities to do the right thing in terms of anti terror because such a proportion of resources are consumed by anti social behaviour.
I wonder how much of a positive influence it would be to limit the number of people who can enter stadiums without accompanying a child? If most people who came to support were with family members, I'd like to think that the odds of violence inside the stadium would reduce.
Reflecting on how targeted the England fans are, I think it will be for the best if England fail to get out of their group. I imagine a number of people with plans to travel have now cancelled their plans.
Reports now that a woman in a wheelchair was attacked by Russian fans. But then again, she is English, so I daresay was asking for it.
Reports now that a woman in a wheelchair was attacked by Russian fans.
Do these reports have a source?
But then again, she is English, so I daresay was asking for it.
Stop that, or I'll lob a table at you 😀
[url= http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/679047/Euro-2016-Marseille-England-Russia-violence-Roy-Hodgson ]Source [/url]
And as Pilate said, what I have written, I have written.
My mistake - it was reportedly a man not a woman.
There was footage of England and Russia fans just as happy before the clashes, Bongo. Give them another five pints.
Your Express link is mainly hearsay, Badnewz. The guy in a critical condition was beat about the head with an iron bar not kicked according to French sources. I suggest watching videos rather than believe what journos say.
There was footage of England and Russia fans just as happy before the clashes, Bongo. Give them another five pints.
I am still confident those same English and Russian fans would be happily getting pissed together after 10 pints. I'd wager it wasn't the ultras drinking with the English early on, but normal Russian and English fans having a laugh.
Badnewz, this has nothing to do with ****s being English but rather ****s being ****s. No matter what way you spin this there is NO excuse for engaging in running battles, especially with police. Only a child thinks 'he started it' is a valid excuse for equally bad behaviour.
[img] 
?oh=1bd274afe4965168861ed442b447d08a&oe=58075DB6[/img]
Not going to comment on this, one way or another.
What I will say is that it's glaringly obvious from people's comments, exactly who has, and who hasn't, ever been to a high profile footy match, never mind an international.
French TV (channel 6 showing the England game) asked why there where only 6 British police advisors. Major security failings for the Russins to have flares etc in the stadium. Its not like the Russians don't have form for this sort of thing. No doubt guilt on both sides.
Mrs Vardy had some pretty critical things to say on Twitter, teargas for no reason etc
@Squirrelking, I suppose the question then is, what should they have done?
I think the English fans throwing bottles at the police were not victims.
But there were lots of England fans amid them who were victims, who were picked on, and that's what I've tried to point out. It seems to me you simply think anyone in an England shirt is a hooligan and deserves what they get.
This is the PC line to take - always blame the English, and frankly, it's boring as it is inaccurate. Infact, it arguably makes the England fans more of a target, as the attackers know they can blame it on the English.
For the record, I can't stand football, and you'd have to pay me to attend a tournament. I'm more bothered by the way in which the mainstream media always go immediately for the anti-English angle. How we ended up with such levels of self-hatred is beyond me.
How we ended up with such levels of self-hatred is beyond me.
South Yorkshire police might have had something to do with that one.
@badnewz care to point out where I said it was anything to do with folk being English? From the start I have been discussing the behaviour if those retaliating, not anyone else. And don't back pedal now, you have defended the aggressors umpteen times now.
As for what I think they should have done, close ranks, keep the provocateurs' at bay and then let the police do their job instead of fighting them. Hardly rocket science is it?
This is the PC line to take - always blame the English, and frankly, it's boring as it is inaccurate. Infact, it arguably makes the England fans more of a target, as the attackers know they can blame it on the English.
There's a long tradition of England going to major tournaments and being involved in trouble. It has its roots in a particular brand of oafish patriotism which is fuelled by a right wing media.
It's an arrogant, aggressive and xenophobic approach to the world. It's a hatred and distrust of anything 'foreign', an attempt to cling to the last scraps of the British Empire.
It's a boozed up extension of what's constantly preached in the media by Farage, Johnson and pals. And yet this is never the issue.
It's the Russians. It's the French police. It's French hooligans. It's the Muslims.
English hooligans are one of the world's most oppressed minorities - forever targeted and mistreated. Why can't they just be left in peace; free to get pissed in town squares and allowed to hurl abuse, hatred, bottles and chairs at non English people?
Can't the authorities organise a fake football match just for the thugs and let them fight it out?
Some pics doing the rounds of some lovely exchanges* between German and Ukrainians in Lille.
*Possibly debates on the merits or not thereof of joining the EU, although I doubt it. I did wonder about the risk of contagion from the clashes in Marseilles spreading to other cities.
I am just hoping Russia don't play Ukraine. People will probably die.
Link ?
This is fun! 😯
We don't need a Brexit to plunge Europe into all out war, we just needed the beautiful game to help it on its way!
@squirrelking, how exactly do you "close ranks" when the police are firing tear gas at you, and Russians are picking you off?
You've simply cast those who "retaliated" as villains, I've noticed you haven't said anything about Russian culpability either.
The Russians also attacked Welsh fans in Moscow a few years ago in their hotels.
England has historically had problems with hooliganism, but the main hooligans arent there, and it was basically a bunch of drunk england fans retaliating after being attacked. The vulgar songs are vulgar, the drinking is excessive, and people like your good self I daresay get a self-esteem boost from telling your friends how ghastly they anyone in an England shirt is.
My main point remains: the English fans were for the most part victims, and the media refuses to accept this as it goes against the politically correct narrative that white english men are basically the scum of the earth.
My main point remains: the English fans were for the most part victims, and the media refuses to accept this as it goes against the politically correct narrative that white english men are basically the scum of the earth.
A lot of reports in the media have stated that the English have been targeted. Which outlets are saying it's all the English causing the trouble?
The various analyses of news reports amongst the world's big media outlets show a fairly even split of blame-apportionment between Russian and English supporters. Even some Russian agencies were reporting that some of their fans had been a bit naughty. If I had some kind of obsession which requires me to blame everything on the PC brigade, I probably wouldn't bother checking what's being reported though.
[quote=mikey74 ]People seem to be blaming the French authorities and the poor security, but what saddens me the most is that people still go to these things with the sole intention of fighting: It is a festival of sport and you shouldn't need draconian policing.
No, but it's clear why it happens - because for those thugs wanting to go and have a fight with somebody foreign it's just about the best opportunity they get. They don't care that it's a festival of sport - just that it provides a ready source of opposition.
Badnewz - please quote where I have said anything like what you are accusing me of. Put up or shut up.
I'll make this easy for you - I never. I've actually categorically stated so as well before now.
You need to work on the victim complex because right now you are talking complete bollocks.
If I had some kind of obsession which requires me to blame everything on the PC brigade, I probably wouldn't bother checking what's being reported though.
Very well put, I have to say. I've already booked myself into therapy. Hopefully I will be reprogrammed to blame all the world's ills on the English.
@squirrilking, I see you are based in Scotland. Now there's a surprise.
Anyhow, its clear this chat is getting rather nasty, so I'm off, I'm sure if we we're chatting in the pub, this conversation wouldn't end up getting so bitter.
Have a good evening all.
@squirrilking, I see you are based in Scotland. Now there's a surprise.
FFS
FFS
Shut up, Frenchy 😀
*lobs table*
I don't like to back up squirrelking normally, and have not looked back, but am struggling to see what he has said that is so bad. Anyone worried that people in Scotland can take a high handed approach should watch footage of the aftermath of the recent Scottish Cup final.
I think football has an issue. This is not snobbery as I used to love football, but am disillusioned by its tribalism. If asked if I would allow my kids to attend a top flight football match I would have to say no.
*fires tear gas*
Here I was minding my own business, helping the local boulangerie rearrange their tables, and I get hit with tear gas!
It's an outrage!
Circulez !
check out the drama queen! 😆athgray - Member
I don't like to back up squirrelking normally, and have not looked back, but am struggling to see what he has said that is so bad. Anyone worried that people in Scotland can take a high handed approach should watch footage of the aftermath of the recent Scottish Cup final.
I think football has an issue. This is not snobbery as I used to love football, but am disillusioned by its tribalism. If asked if I would allow my kids to attend a top flight football match I would have to say no.
Domestic "british" fitba is as tame as it comes. Your weans you be fine.
I am sure that my children would be fine, however the scenes at the end of the Scottish Cup final from both sets of fans were a disgrace. I would rather my kids partook in a sport where this degree of tribalism is not evident. Although this level of violence does not spill out week on week, it is a symptom of a degree of low level menace that you feel at football stadiums on a weekly basis.
I got bored with football when it was banter to suggest oposition fans pissed on the carpet and shit in the bath and fingered their grandmother just for a laugh. Youse weans are welcome to it seosamh
of the end of "domestic" Scottish Cup final. Who would rather have their kids watch or partake in another sporting event?
a 1 in 36 year event. catch yourself on! 😆
One thing I have learned, is you can spot the Russian hooligans by their bumbags/manbags.
Roberts, who is in charge of Britain’s police operation in France, said: “England has had its problems with hooligans in the past. But the Russians are entirely different – they are like nothing we have seen before. They are highly organised and determined to carry out sustained violent attacks at a level of aggression I have not encountered in the past 10 years.“Our spotters in Marseille saw them putting in gum shields and putting on martial arts gloves and bandanas before attacking England fans in the port.
“We know some were carrying knives because one England fan was stabbed. They wore a kind of uniform – all in black t-shirts and clothing and most carried bum bags, possibly to conceal weapons.
Catching up on this. I went to Marseille in 2004 for the Marseille v Newcastle UEFA cup semi final. As you can imagine, there was a fair amount of alcohol fuelled 'boisterous' behaviour going on. However the only conflict I witnessed was pissed-up geordies arguing with surly barmen about being short-changed. I remember (vaguely) having a pigeon-french conversation with a local in a pub in the old port who bought me rounds of pastis. Anyway, the point is that it's not impossible for football fans to go abroad and drink lots without having a riot, so I'm puzzled as to why followers of the national team find it so difficult.
Followed England home and away for 8 years from 2005 and have now binned it off for a few years whilst saving for a house...
The away game in Moscow was the single most unsettling experience I've ever had in 24 years as a regular attender at club/country level. When the draw was made for this, me, and all the lads I come to know from around the country knew it was the perfect storm and not many were rubbing thier hands over the trip even if it was the Euro's. I know from following Facebook and Twitter its been worse than feared and now even some of the most hardened chaps I know are already talking of sacking 2018 off...
The Ukraine by contrast was an absolute joy of an experience both for the qualifier and the finals. Sad to see the places we travelled are now blown to pieces.
Tonights Football Supporters Federation statement...
[url= http://www.fsf.org.uk/latest-news/view/fsf-statement-attacks-on-english-fans-in-marseille-euro2016 ]FSF LINK[/url]
Wouldn't be surprised if there was further bother from the Russians Wednesday night as they play in Lille, where a lot of England/Wales fans will be staying the night before the game in Lens on Thursday. Hopefully the police might try a little harder next time.
As for proposed alcohol bans... The Russians don't drink, they just want to smash everyone to pieces.
Atgray,are you ignoring the fact that English fans still knock lumps out of each other in domestic games? What about the international game;what's your opinion on the behaviour of the Folks who follow the national side Atgray,or do they not fit your tired,made up,bleating? Stick to posting claims about "Scottish white van man" that also don't bear up to any scrutiny. At least you give us a laugh then,oh;and it is snobbery on your part.
Atgray,are you ignoring the fact that English fans still knock lumps out of each other in domestic games?
Really? I haven't seen violence at a football match since the 70's. Not a regular attended but I'm surprised by your statement.
DrJ - Member
Really? I haven't seen violence at a football match since the 70's. Not a regular attended but I'm surprised by your statement.
Still going on.
Have a google for Millwall v Barnsley at Wembley last month.
I good article from Ken Early in the Irish Times:
^ That article sums up how I have been trying to articulate my views of what has been happening over the last few days.
ATG - how very dare you tickle the thin skin of those who cannot see hypocrisy in front of them?
Hope Uefa have the balls to kick us and the Russians out again if our fans behave like that again.
There are certainly some scary looking Ruski's setting about the English....thats for sure. I was studying some of the footage last night and its men against boys, plus you could see they were sober, whilst our drunken lot hardly knew what was happening.
Surprised there has only been one critical injury and not a few deaths!
if our fans behave like that again
Yeah, how on earth did the English fans have the temerity to innocently watch a football match and have a group of Russians scale a fence and start about them.
[i]Yeah, how on earth did.....[/i]
Just ignore him...another subject he talks shite on.
...which conveniently, if understandably (!), ignores the rest of the day's events.
But lets keep playing the, "we are innocent victims here card". It makes us feel so much better.
But lets keep playing the, "we are innocent victims here card". It makes us feel so much better.
I see it as a case of not being fair because they beat [i]us[/i], I mean, how dare they?
You need to listen to people who have actually gone there in a professional capacity to evaluate the issues, rather than making such inflammatory comments!
Indeed rockape you do....
I'm loving the innocent English fans defense. Check out this guy, he appears to be taking a selfie as he throws a bottle at French police. Of course I'm sure that somehow Russian ultras are to blame.
[img] 
[/img]
Ohh and of course let's not forget the explosive device and flares the Russians managed somehow to smuggle into the ground.
Let's be straight here - if you actually read the reports (both the press and fan accounts) - the majority of the trouble appears to be started by the French and Russians charging at English fans. Yes our lot are rowdy and yes I accept they started some trouble but the worst and most concerning event was in the ground on Saturday night - the Russians somehow got past the fences and security and started on the English fans. The finger pointing for that event should be at the Russians and the French security.
Let's hope that the lunatic English fans that have banning orders don't travel to Russia in 2018 in some attempt to exact revenge on them because that could get very nasty.
I hereby christen you Context Kimbers. 😀
Let's be straight here - if you actually read the reports (both the press and fan accounts) - the majority of the trouble appears to be started by the French and Russians charging at English fans. Yes our lot are rowdy and yes I accept they started some trouble but the worst and most concerning event was in the ground on Saturday night - the Russians somehow got past the fences and security and started on the English fans.
Agreed
The finger pointing for that event should be at [s]the Russians and the French security.[/s] all involved
Otherwise it is simple hypocrisy/myopia...
Yes our lot are rowdy [b]and yes I accept they started some trouble[/b]
That's very noble of you. 😆
What I will say is that it's glaringly obvious from people's comments, exactly who has, and who hasn't, ever been to a high profile footy match, never mind an international.
Given that I haven't been to a high profile match, what am I missing?
When the Olympics were in London I was lucky enough to go to a few events (including the Velodrome) and the atmosphere was absolutely fantastic, both inside the venues and to be honest, across London as well. I felt as though everyone was in a better mood for about a month.
That's very noble of you.
Not at all. I have no vested interest in events, I am just trying to keep an open mind on what happened - the earlier link to the article in that Irish news site seemed to sum up events quite well in my opinion.
The problem with some English supporters (and TBH some English tourists generally) is not violence, but the normalisation of deeply anti-social behaviour in foreign cities. That, combined with a historical reputation for violence, makes confrontation far more likely.
2018 is going to be absolute nightmare at this rate.
EUFA has not helped the situation by allowing the random allocation of venues, and not looking closely at the timing of matches. Marseille would be your last choice for any match involving England. Our next match is in Lens, but fans have been advised to stay in nearby Lille in the run-up because Lens is too small to cope.
Who's playing in Lille on Wednesday? Russia.
Sighhhhh. If you want some context bongo, these images were taken 2 days ago when French police tried to disperse English fans who had become drunk and rowdy in the old town square in Marseille, the police were me with a rain of bottles from the English fans, perhaps you'd have responded in the same way, or maybe you'd take the hint that the police wanted you to disperse ?
Oh I forgot if you are a football fan, being an intimidating mob of intoxicated dicks is somehow ok
The bottom line is, if you see a group of lads wearing bum bags, then just walk the other way.