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With their witty anti IS chants and fighting with the police. Class lads class!
Makes a change from "No surrender to the IRA". 🙂 But, yeah, not great scenes. I don't imagine that's the last we'll see of it either. 😐
On the bright side, it'll be nice and quiet at Gisburn for a couple of weeks.
I saw the videos of them chanting 'You're s**t but your birds are fit' at the swedes. Not seen anything else yet.
Tradition?
Wouldn't expect anything less. Scumbags being scumbags.
TBH, if you want to kick off with the locals in France, I'd seriously recommend not doing it in Marseilles; the city whose major asked for the French Army to come and help stop the gang warfare in the city. She reckoned given the weaponry in use, only an Army could compete on an equal footing.
The local thugs settle scores with AK-47s, not with the Marquis of Queensbury's rules.
😆perchypanther - Member
On the bright side, it'll be nice and quiet at Gisburn for a couple of weeks.
One of the many reasons why I no longer follow the sport..
Sad, really because the level of skill & athleticism in the game is sometimes quite simply out of this World!
"us" ??
English fans gonna English. Soccer fans gonna soccer.
mrlebowskiSad, really because the level of skill & athleticism in the game is sometimes quite simply out of this World!
Um. Okay.
"us"??
them. 😉
We'll be begging the EU to let us stay in.
The quality of idiot we ship out to them every summer is simply outstanding.
"Dear French police do what the **** you like with them."
Could we opt out of the EU and close the borders before they start coming back?
Um. Okay.
Why don't you have a go & then let us know how easy it was/how long it'll be before you get the cast off your broken ankle...
Well they certainly aren't doing it in my name..
I can't bear football.
Lets hope the local gangsters, swiftly followed by the French security services keep them in order.
(by 'keep them in order' in mean batter them, but don't want to offend the hand-wringers on here)
same scene in lots of UK towns this evening.
not news though
I thought the only fans kicking off would be in the sweepstake thread 🙁
To be honest, you add any amount of people + booze, and you'll get a few idiots kicking off.
Lets hope the local gangsters, swiftly followed by the French security services keep them in order.
(by 'keep them in order' in mean batter them, but don't want to offend the hand-wringers on here)
Why would anyone wring their hands over your incitement of violence? Wish bloody vengeance with pride!
Um. Okay.
How pissed would you be if someone said UFC fighters were just brawlers, and there is no skill?
Tank Abbot not included 😉
Several threads on and no one's wished male rape upon them?
What's French for "Bubba's bitch?"
Sallop deBubba
mrlebowski
Um. Okay.Why don't you have a go & then let us know how easy it was/how long it'll be before you get the cast off your broken ankle...
If that's your idea of [i]"skill and athleticism that's out of this world[/i]" then you my rainbow flick would have blown your mind.
Hosting an England game in Marseille was very stupid indeed. Whoever thought of that should be sacked.
It is a lovely town but it was obvious there would be trouble.
If that's your idea of "skill and athleticism that's out of this world" then you my rainbow flick would have blown your mind.
Can you do it?
Have you ever tried?
I imagine not..
Enlighten the viewers with your perception of skill & athleticism...
edit: what is a "rainbow flick" dear heart? You've lost me..
To be fair every country has it's hooligans but the English press only want to report English fan behaviour.
Just look at the troubles in the Greek, Turkish and Italian game.
We haven't cornered the market at all.
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/may/13/violence-killing-turkish-football-fenerbahce-besiktas-galatasaray ]Turkey[/url]
[url= http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/watch-crowd-trouble-during-paok-7488125 ]Greece[/url]
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/apr/27/italian-football-crowd-trouble-serie-a-torino-juventus ]Italy[/url]
Enlighten the viewers with your perception of skill & athleticism...
Have you tried playing a game of even semi-competitive football? If you had you would know why that statement is very true.
We haven't cornered the market at all.
Too true - in some cases what English fans get up to is really quite mild to what other countries fans manage to get away with..
Have you tried playing a game of even semi-competitive football? If you had you would know why that statement is very true.
Yes.
It was bloody hard, I got by being far fitter than anyone else but skill? Nah, I had none of that.
mrlebowskiCan you do it?
Yes.
Have you ever tried?I imagine not..
Yes. I played soccer from no age, well into my 20s. I imagine I am not special in this regard.
Enlighten the viewers with your perception of skill & athleticism...
Oh, I dunno...probably something like this
edit: what is a "rainbow flick" dear heart? You've lost me..
I used to call it an Ardilles flick (just to give an indication of my age, that's where I learned it) but that's what the kids call it now, so I believe.
Oh, I dunno...probably something like this
I'll give you that.
You must concede though, that the timing of a tackle or the controlling of a ball when your HR is going through the roof & it's the 91st minute takes a degree of skill & athleticism thats worthy of admiration.
You can say no by all means & we'' just have to agree to disagree?
mrlebowski - MemberOh, I dunno...probably something like this
I'll give you that.
You must concede though, that the timing of a tackle or the controlling of a ball when your HR is going through the roof & it's the 91st minute takes a degree of skill & athleticism thats worthy of admiration.
You can say no by all means & we'' just have to agree to disagree?
I just think that footballers are paid much more, and receive far more plaudits relative to their skill and athleticism than athletes in other sports.
I just think that footballers are paid much more, and receive far more plaudits relative to their skill and athleticism than athletes in other sports.
No argument here I can assure you!
Surely that's down to Sky & BT throwing loadsamoney at the game, nothing else. I'm sure if said broadcasters threw as much money at, say cricket, then cricketers would also fall into that argument
I just think that footballers are paid much more, and receive far more plaudits relative to their skill and athleticism than athletes in other sports.
That isn't the fault of the footballers though. And to get to where they have done will have taken considerable effort when they were kids. I am seeing it first hand right now with a good friend's lad – he is on the books of a feeder club at the age of 9 and after his first season he has just been bumped up a level but already the pressure is pretty hard – he wanted to give up earlier this year as he felt he wasn't good enough and already his spare time is pretty filled with football-related activities.
I feel really proud of him though – I told my mate several years ago that he had a real skill and he should be encouraged 🙂
Modern footballers:
Athleticism - yes, much more than most give them credit for.
Skill - sometimes - generally not that impressive compared to other sports
Professionalism - terrible
I actually quite enjoyed football until my mid 20's when I actively began coaching in racket sports. When you spend hours a week watching athletes perform, seeing what they do well, what mistakes they make etc, then you go and watch football, what you see is horrific.
Give me footage of every goal scored in the premiership last season, and i'll bet you I could demonstrate in 90% of them it came down to a basic defensive error that would be taught at under 14's level.
Frankly, the number of basic errors footballers make, they would be a million miles from professionals in nearly any other sport.
I once played 5-a-side with some mates...one of them brought a ringer with him - well, not really, but someone who fancied a kick-a-bout. A semi-pro from some non-league outfit a few degrees away from the football league. Not a young guy by any stretch. To be honest, him and a keeper would have wiped the floor with the rest of us put together. I don't think any of us realise the skill levels that players in the upper-league possess...even the defenders who don't do much other than block.
Give me footage of every goal scored in the premiership last season, and i'll bet you I could demonstrate in 90% of them it came down to a basic defensive error that would be taught at under 14's level.
You're a pound-shop Alan Hansen and I want my over-inflated prize. Frankly, that's bollocks. Enjoy it. Don't enjoy it. But don't be making stuff up now.
😆 at DD
deadlydarcy - Member
Frankly, that's bollocks. Enjoy it. Don't enjoy it. But don't be making stuff up now.
Football fanboi detected.
Seriously, go download 100 games, watch the goals, but watch the defensive play with a coaches hat on. 90% fails, 10% genuinely good goals.
Come back next week and tell us how you got on - and if you have ripped up your season ticket.
I once played 5-a-side with some mates...one of them brought a ringer with him - well, not really, but someone who fancied a kick-a-bout. A semi-pro from some non-league outfit a few degrees away from the football league. Not a young guy by any stretch. To be honest, him and a keeper would have wiped the floor with the rest of us put together. I don't think any of us realise the skill levels that players in the upper-league possess...even the defenders who don't do much other than block.
Similar experience here.
I thought "hmmm he's a lot better than you but can he run?" (I was pretty fit at this time & fancied myself as bit of a box to box player.)... Oh F yes was the answer.....finished that game feeling very chastened.....& on the losing side I'm sure you won't be surprised to hear!
Give me footage of every goal scored in the premiership last season, and i'll bet you I could demonstrate in 90% of them it came down to a basic defensive error that would be taught at under 14's level.
Isn't this stating the obvious? The beauty (IMO) of the truly skilled player is their ability to force opponents in to making mistakes or their ability to anticipate what that opponent is about to do (you could argue that the obviousness of some passes/moves are also a type of basic error).
As you teach racket sports, you must also understand the importance of this in those sports too? i.e. How many points are won in tennis by capitalising on a poor choice of shot or simply from an unforced error by the opponent? Probably not 90% (not sure it's [i]really[/i] 90% in Football either), but hugely important nonetheless.
Seriously, go download 100 games, watch the goals, but watch the defensive play with a coaches hat on. 90% fails, 10% genuinely good goals.
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Little coverage of this on French Tv I've seen, mostky focusing on the positive mood in Paris ahead of tonights game and the fact there are lots of strikes trying to disrupt the tournament (no metro today, no rubbish collection). Seems the England fans where being taunted by locals, I think Marseilles is the French city with the lowest proportion if French born citizens. As such the IS chants seem hardly surrising from the "no surrender" crowd. Not condoning anything but bit of a storm in a teacup
On skill levels I was at college with Nigel Spackman, he used to dribble the ball where he wanted and score at will. For Chelsea and Liverpool he was a strictly trap and pass midfielder.
Isn't this stating the obvious? The beauty (IMO) of the truly skilled player is their ability to force opponents in to making mistakes or their ability to anticipate what that opponent is about to do (you could argue that the obviousness of some passes/moves are also a type of basic error).As you teach racket sports, you must also understand the importance of this in those sports too? i.e. How many points are won in tennis by capitalising on a poor choice of shot or simply from an unforced error by the opponent? Probably not 90% (not sure it's really 90% in Football either), but hugely important nonetheless.
Absolutely, taking the initiative and putting your opponent under pressure is pretty much a characteristic of any (high level) competitive sport from Football, to Tennis, to E-Sports.
However, as the 'level' declines, generally the rate of unforced errors increases. And its not just football - go look at unforced error rates womens tennis for example.
Of course the error rate increases in proportion to the competency of the competitor in any given competition. However, in a sport such as Football where you also have to factor the cumulative impact of 11 individuals propensity for error and the shear number of variables that can lead to that error, then direct comparisons to individual disciplines becomes problematic.
Therefore, to pick an individual footballer and say they are less skillful than an individual Tennis player is a flawed comparison. The sports are just different. Of course, that difference is a completely legitimate reason not to enjoy one compared to the other.
Marseille is lovely in "Plus Belle la Vie". I'm in no rush to go back. If fans are going to behave badly it's probably the best place to hold the match outside of 93. 👿
Every time I go there seems to coincide with the binmen being on strike, but the vieux port smells like that on a normal day. Who'd stick a fishing village in a city centre, seriously 🙂
The redeveloped bit at the docks is very nice in a gentrified and culturally embellished fashion.
Marseilles is a very mixed ethnic mix, it's one of the few cities in France that I'd be happy wandering the streets late.
I'm tempted to slightly agree that a lot of goals are a result of poor defending. I still can't work out how a PL player can't follow a simple run.
One of the main reasons Leicester won the league was that in the second half of the season they cut out defensive errors.
For skill check out Zidane 5 a-side
Played football at a reasonable level, and also played with some guys from lower league pro football. Unbelievable how skilled they are, one guy who played with 2 goosed knees at 47, couldnt run, couldn't turn, but you wouldn't get the ball off him.
I had to work really hard to play at the level I did, some guys could just rock up on a Saturday and run the game.
Pretty much every top level of every sport is hard to comprehend how good they actually are, and questioning fitness and skill levels of those players says more about your intelligence than their abilities.
You seem to like criticising women's sport in particular Andy. Strange.
When we worked in Marseille in 1991 there were areas it most definitely wasn't safe walking the streets late, Bikebouy. Nobody in their right mind took the last Metro. There are videos in the Metro now but watch your back as you leave the station. It's no model of integration with violence on all sides.
[url= http://pv.viewsurf.com/?id=236 ]Webcal of the old port.[/url]
On the right, minibuses of police. On the left, "fans".
I remember years back seeing fans attack police in the velodrome, one guy in particular, it was absolutely brutal. Always wondered if he was okay.
I still can't work out how a PL player can't follow a simple run.
Err, because they aren't 'simple runs'. Very rarely does a player man-mark in the modern game - they have various duties to perform other than just stand there waiting for one person to rock up with the ball then try to get it off him.
But you knew that didn't you?
@Nobeer, nothing against Womens sport in particular, although given 2 recent threads i can see why you would question it. I merely pointed out 2 cases where despite them being professional sportspeople, many performances are anything but professional.
@dragon, totally agree about simple runs. Its the kind of thing taught at schoolboy level, and really shouldn't be present in the top professional leagues.
@Taulpaul, interesting point about collective errors vs individual ones. Have to admit i hadnt considered that.
To be honest, him and a keeper would have wiped the floor with the rest of us put together.
Used to work with a guy who, 10 years before had been on the end of a "direct" conversation with Alex Ferguson: "Will I ever make the first team?" "No son".
He's the only person I've ever seen in five-a-side able to dummy a keeper while standing still with his foot on top of the ball.
Anyone who thinks these guys (and girls) aren't super skillful are kidding themselves - as the quality gets higher, so the margin for error gets tighter.
Edukator, Friday fish market.
We were very warmly welcomed in 2007 (many Corsicans) for rwc qf's and felt safe enough walking around late at night. The city does have a well deserved reputation not least amongst its football crowd.
Given some of the reports I've read, there is a lot of goading coming from locals. I guess they want to see if the English are still hooligans or something.
Heh.
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Worked in Marseille at the Sofitel Vieux Port in 1994.
Used to cycle to work from St Barnabe, La maison des Compagnons. Never had any trouble.
whose bright idea was it to send england back to play in marseille? it's a total **** up from the moment that decision was made.
And against Russia too...
"ISIS Crew, where are you.. We've got pork on the barbecue…"
Does make me chuckle at the pure wummery on show though.
So England should get special treatment? What about Russia? Italy? Have they to get the same? As they also have a nasty element to their support.
Worked in Prado opposite the OM ground and swam in the sea at Prado beach each morning. There were thieves waiting to nick stuff so we walked down in swimming kit and often saw the police (who did nothing to stop the thieves) taking complaints. We stupidly took the Metro one night and had a close call which involved baling out of a closing door as it was shutting. Friends had the wheels nicked off their car at the Calanques climber's car park.
If you were there in the 90s you'll remember the informal street market for nicked stuff near the station.
Doesn't really matter where they are playing or if they are being goaded. If they can't behave ship them back home, lock them up and and revoke their passports.
Football should be about enjoying the game (or arguing if footballers suck 😛 ) not about hooligans brawling in the streets.
Doesn't really matter where they are playing or if they are being goaded. If they can't behave ship them back home, lock them up and and revoke their passports.
I agree: There should be a zero tolerance policy on this sort of thing. Same goes for all those morons who go to Ibiza etc every year and destroy the place.
Nah, lock 'em up in French jails. 👿
There are 2000 banning orders in place,so not as if the police haven't tried.
England fans have gathered together and got very, very drunk, which is what happens at every international tournament. A well prepared police force would have kept rival Russian fans and Marseille ultras well away. Instead a stand off type situation developed with the English fans being goaded into thuggish behaviour by rival supporters.
What if a large group of Russian fans had got very drunk and rowdy outside a bar and then groups of England fans turned up to fight them ? Who would be blamed then ?
I condemn all of this hooliganism but for an inevitable situation the French police have been poor.
The French police haven't managed this very well. Not an excuse for English behaviour, however there are ways to effectively look after this kind of situation and they've got things wrong. Who's bright idea was it to put England fans in Marseille?
There'll be a lot more trouble before the tournament is over I reckon.
Forgive my ignorance, which I hope is simply football ignorance rather than historical ignorance, but what's the issue with Marseille?
thegreatape - Member
Forgive my ignorance, which I hope is simply football ignorance rather than historical ignorance, but what's the issue with Marseille?
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/england-fans-battle-riot-squad-1165059.html ]1998 World Cup[/url]
It's a really think mix of ethnic poor, underprivileged who live in some pocketed rough areas. I'm not picking on one particular African country but they are possibly the worst at thriving in a tough environment. The place has been a natural hotbed over the centuries for transient migrants, and as such has a reputation for being "rough".
I counter all that with the fact that the city is inhabited by middle income/class and some very wealthy French people, so it's not like the city is a war zone, but you do have to be careful where you travel.
I like the place, it's a very vibrant city on all sorts of levels. Those that say "it's a shit hole, you will get killed or robbed" clearly have never been there and will never go or choose to poke jibes at the place without any local knowledge. But that's their choice, keyboard warriors must have their say.
Yep agreed.
I learned to drive while there and the instructors would avoid certains areas.
It was corrut as hell too.
But as above, it is a great city.
Just been watching some of the footage on the net.
Animals. All of them. Russians, English who are actively taking part, Marseille ultras....****ing animals. Just hoofing people in the head who are already knocked out.
Sometimes I really want to get off this planet 🙁
Just been watching some of the footage on the net.Animals. All of them. Russians, English who are actively taking part, Marseille ultras....**** animals. Just hoofing people in the head who are already knocked out.
I am assured that it's all the police's fault.
I'll just repeat what I said in another forum, why should normal people have to put up with this behaviour?
Just ban football altogether, there's nothing good about it, from the bent fat cat owners and managers, to the over paid self important rapist players, and finally the "fans" who show their appreciation by causing a public nuisance to everyone around them.
The whole thing is an insult to modern society, and shouldn't be tolerated.
I'll just repeat what I said in another forum, why should normal people have to put up with this behaviour?
I agree.
Just ban football altogether, there's nothing good about it, from the bent fat cat owners and managers, to the over paid self important rapist players, and finally the "fans" who show their appreciation by causing a public nuisance to everyone around them.
Ah....ok. Erm, I got to go....left..erm..the cat in charge of the gas cooker or something....
Football is a mirror. Always has been, always will be.
A mirror of what?
If you are currently being chased by Russian Ultras, then you.
Oof, judging by the videos it is a war zone. Russia vs England vs Locals. Plenty of cheap shots on bystanders and people already prone on the ground