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I'm after a saddle, I know the one I want, but I want it in white which cuts down the amount of places selling it.
I've seen them on AliExpress for <50% of the 'usual' price. Am I being a mug, is it going to be a cheap copy?
Just avoid buying stuff from china as much as you can, with the added bonus of not experiencing this kind of dilemma.
Actually, it looks like there are some that are c. 50% RRP, (so £40-ish) and some that are less than a tenner. Clearly the super cheap ones are obviously going to be knock-offs.
Am I being a mug, is it going to be a cheap copy?
If it feels too good to be true...
Assume everything on there is fake, even Shimano stuff that is close enough to RRP to make you wonder.
if its genuine, then its made in china, so your money goes to china anyway.
Theres a lot of knockoffs, different grades, quality ought to be what you pay for. Could be made in the same factory
Look at the store page ratings, and item reviews
If it's on Ali Express and 50% off then it's almost certainly a knock-off.
In fact, if it's on Ali Express at any price it's probably a knock off, counterfeit producers now list the same exact product at different price points with different images as these will snag different customers with different mentalities.
Almost all brands forbid their Far Eastern distributors from listing genuine products on there to avoid this kind of confusion.
I was after a frame & wheel kit for some inline skates once & I couldn't buy or order them from anywhere in the UK. So I chanced it on AliExpress. As far as I can tell they are the original parts. It wasn't a cost thing, simply lack of availability. In terms of cost, I had nothing to gauge it against but after tax & shipping it was very cheap. They took about 6 weeks to arrive though.
It always depends on what you're getting, some stuff i hear is basically the same as the real product, as it's made in the same places, it's the downside for companies to get manufacturing done in China and other places, they're basically open for copyright infringement, others though are just bad copies, poorer materials, less QC and so on as others say.
Anything that alludes to be a non China brand is going to be counterfeit. It’s not going to be made in the same factory to a lower grade or made too many or any of the other urban myths.
Some Chinese manufactures have their own brand and these can be pretty good value and a bit of a bargain. Trace Velo YT is a good starting point to explorer this world of bargains.
Could be made in the same factory
Is there any documented evidence of this happening? I know a lot of people say it to justify buying knock-offs, but when you watch the QC videos of carbon frames from China (and full disclosure, I've got a Chinarello - albeit I wasn't so shameless as to get logos on there) it usually looks like they are being made in someone's shed meth lab.
I bought a Beelink mini PC off there and it was an absolute bargain.
About 60% of the price of one on Amazon.
Took about 2 weeks to arrive.
I have some self imposed rules for the occasions I use Ali express.
Always use PayPal
Never buy branded
Never spend more than I can afford to lose
Never buy something that is safety critical
Never buy something where failure would have significance consequential loses.
I buy a fair amount of stuff from there, usually things that fall in the "too simple to mess up" category.
Recent stuff:
Cheap bar tape because I trash it quickly however expensive it is.
Motorbike grips, not sure if knock off or from the back door of the factory but they're identical to the the Vans x Odi waffles. This is about as close to "fake" as I'm prepared to go.
TPMS kits for both the motorbike and car because the OH is really bad for never checking tyres and the bike had a slow puncture so for £10 why not.
Job lot of SAE connectors so I can finally have a consistent set of plugs for the all the chargers. Optimate do them for £10/adapter, but the connectors are £5 for 10.
GPS Speedo. For £15 it was cheaper than getting a card printed for the km/h speedo (and risking dismantling it) and I'll just use it untill mental maths becomes 2nd nature (which tbh it already is).
SAE to USB adapter. This is actually the only thing in a while that's been a letdown. It's supposed to be QC3.0 but won't deliver it. Shame because it actually looks well made.
Basically all the stuff that's manufactured in china anyway
I'd not touch things like "EC90" handlebars though.
I've had many successful orders from AE. I personally wouldn't buy a safety-critical bicycle component though as a) the non-branded (or Chinese branded) ones will be legit, but of unknown quality and b) the non-Chinese branded ones will almost certainly be counterfeit. If it's 50% usual price, you just have to use your common sense sometimes.
Definitely less bargains on there now that they've got much bigger/well-known so I use it a lot less now. (Never paid VAT years ago but they always seem to add it on now!) You can often get things for only slightly more but with much quicker shipping via Amazon/eBay.
Depends on the item. If it's a major brand I'd assume it's a knock-off. But that's also possible if buying from eBay or Amazon too.
If it's a smaller brand it may well be from the same factory. For example the Juin Tech brakes on AliExpress or eBay are almost certainly the same item. Something branded Shimano I'd not trust to be genuine.
I've some Clarks M4 brakes that I bought about 4 years ago, sold by a UK supplier, with Clarks support from the UK . There are some identical looking brakes available on AliExpress branded as Meroca. I'd expect they're identical and from the same factory, rather than a knock off.
I'd never order something like a frame or handlebars but I've just ordered a Ryet clone of the Title ST1 35mm stem.
Price was good and ratings were decent for both the store and item.
Also ordered their lower bolt on bash guard.
If you don't hear back from me in a few weeks then I've probably died.
It really depends on what you're looking for. if you're looking for a branded part at discount prices, it'll most likely be rubbish. If you're looking for something functional, you can probably find it. However. I've found the best thing to do before buying anything on AX is have a look on the chinertown forum. those guys but chinese stuff as projects to see if they work or not, so you don't have to... well, sortof.
Perhaps oddly I'd trust brakes from a relatively known Chinese brand or supplier (like the ones that are obviously the Clarks without the branding).
But I'd not trust a stem.
Partially because stems are cheap and/or available 2nd hand or in crap colours anyway. And I figure that I can overload a brake just by squeezing it really hard in the car park. If it survives that then it's unlikely to fail when tickled on the trail or of it does I have two of them.
Same with cranks or handlebars. But I'd probably trust a frame and fork from a known supplier (dengfu, carboncycle, tosseek, etc). It just doesn't seem worth spending Deore money on a set of cranks when Deore exists. And handlebars are either fussy enough to buy the ones I want, or cheap and simple enough that I'd just use whatever is in the spares box rather than some other random ones.
I don't think it's as simple as Ali Express = fake anymore. It depends on the individual seller and product.
I've had a full Shimano SLX groupset of Ali Express and it was genuine. Still going strong 4 years down the line.
I've had a fake Shimano chain off of UK ebay that melted my first road ride.
I've also had fake Addidas trainers off of UK Amazon.
I’ve had a fake Shimano chain off of UK ebay that melted my first road ride.
I had a Shimano c/l rotor from a reputable shop* via eBay but it was made in China Shimano not Malaysian Shimano & was warped/much lower quality than one I had so I sent it back.
*Biketart
I bought an obscure part for a 16 year old car from AliExpress – 1/3rd of the price of tatty second-hand ones on Ebay and was clearly an original part as they had even gone to the effort of grinding off the product code.
I don’t see what could really go wrong with a block of CNC’d aluminium. The bolts may be made of mashed potatoes however.
I suppose the worry is that it would be CNC'd mashed potato.
I'm still wavering - it's a saddle for a road bike, so not exactly getting a lot of hammer.
I don’t see what could really go wrong with a block of CNC’d aluminium. The bolts may be made of mashed potatoes however.
How much analysis did they do when designing it? Machined from billet/forging/casting?
I'm firming in the "not if a big crash could result from failure" camp.
IIRC there was someone on here that bought carbon bars and simply snapped them in his hands
Post a link to the saddle, perhaps someone else on here has one?
I don’t see what could really go wrong with a block of CNC’d aluminium.
Is it 6061, 7075 or melted down old Coke cans?
Post a link to the saddle, perhaps someone else on here has one?
To be fair, I've already got two, but in black.
Having looked again, it turns out the seller on AliEx only has the female specific one (DEA) in white, the white non-female specific one is sold out. And I won't waste anyone's eyeballs on the sub-tenner ones.
Found this one on eBay though, from Italy.
SELLA SADDLE PROLOGO ZERO II PAS in 5 COLORI | eBay
Regarding the stem, they claim it's 7075 T6.
Ryet appear to be one of the bigger Chinese brands with lots of reviews on various forums. Title don't mention in-house production so it's probably all from the same factory. Reviews are positive for machining and finish.
I'll let everyone know once it arrives and I've fitted it, then as I said, if I don't reply again after that I've died.
There was a Chinese brand called Wake that made cheap stubby dirtjump style CNC stems, for a while they seemed to be the must have upgrade for any self respecting Carrera or Voodoo riding school kid at Swinley.
THEY
ALL
CRACKED
But then again we all bought Thompson stems for £60 back in the 2000s and they cracked so regularly that you could buy replacement face plates.
Motorbike grips, not sure if knock off or from the back door of the factory but they’re identical to the the Vans x Odi waffles. This is about as close to “fake” as I’m prepared to go.
no judgement for buying what you buy, but odi only make their grips in the USA. I’m not even suggesting that your grips are fake, but they probably are.
you can buy a mk2 escort body shell from alibaba. That’s definitely not genuine ford parts
But then again we all bought Thompson stems for £60 back in the 2000s and they cracked so regularly that you could buy replacement face plates.
TBF they cracked because in the 2000s nobody knew what a torque spec was. Thomson even reduced the size of the hex in the bolt to try and stop people swinging off them
you can buy a mk2 escort body shell from alibaba. That’s definitely not genuine ford parts
That's brilliant.
just bought an off brand DMR Defy35 of Aliexpress. logos and bolts aside, the machining marks appear to be the same.
no judgement for buying what you buy, but odi only make their grips in the USA. I’m not even suggesting that your grips are fake, but they probably are.
I'm fairly sure they probably are fake.
And I now want a MK2 Escort shell!
I like the idea that genuine odi grips could turn up on AliExpress.
Budget for tax and duties as the mk2 shell definitely wouldn’t slip through customs unexamined.
edit: minimum order of 10! Group buy possible?
Out of curiosity I just compared them to the ones on the ODI site and the ones I've bought:
A) don't have Odi / vans logos
B) don't have the textured end section, it's just smooth.
C) don't exist as a combination from ODI, they do a different version entirely on the ones pre installed to the throttle tube, or a loose version that (if you squint) looks like the ones I bought.
So I'm easing my conscience by telling myself they're no more fakes than any other grip manufacturer making their own variation on ruffians or flanged longnecks. They just happen to look like a vans waffle sole which is a fairly distinctive pattern ?
Well I just got a 105 group set from Ali for cheap. Turned up within 7 days with extra no charges. No retail boxes and I guess warranty would be an issue but not all stuff is dodge.
Also liking the ryet saddles
I’ve used them loads over the years, never an issue. The funniest one was my last purchase. A set of batteries and basic plastic tools to replace the batteries in my Sony WF earbuds which were only holding a 20 min charge. 6 weeks later package arrives. Open it to find a small plastic toy car. Assume I’ve been ripped off of my €20. Give the car a shake, batteries and tools are packaged inside it ? Assume a way to get around some regulations regarding shipping batteries.
I've never (so far) had a warranty issue via Ali express, the handful of things that have been DOA I've just raised a request and most times it's just refunded instantly. In fact I think this usb adapter is the first time it's generated a returns label.
I do like watching the YT content from terminal ADHD sufferer and AliExpress adventurer 'Trace Velo' who seems to have a roughly 50/50: Hit/miss ratio with the framesets and bits he buys and assembles from AliExpress.
I've had some useful things from AliExpress, but I'm not brave enough to chance a Carbon frame or bars, might try a chapy metal frame one day perhaps...
I like the idea that genuine odi grips could turn up on AliExpress.
Counter to the off brand stem, I also bought some odi "brand" silicon grips. Shopping purely for color.
Odi don't even make a grip like I purchased and the box is a very poor Chinese copy.
My sample of two suggest that "off brand" products are probably the same mould/machining, "on brand" are likely fake.
That's quite an amusing story, @feed! I can understand your initial confusion upon receiving a toy car instead of the expected battery and tool kit. It was certainly clever of the seller to package the batteries inside another item to comply with shipping rules. But don't you think six weeks is a bit long for shipping?
Most bicycle components are made in China and Taiwan these days. And there's good and bad. Many 'Western' branded products are in fact simply re-labelled Chinese/Taiwanese made products. Obviously stuff like Hope, Chris King etc are made in the West, but even that isn't a great indicator of quality. Thomson seatposts are always just a fraction under the stated diameter, and need clamping up tighter than normal. Which isn't great on an alloy frame. USE products I've found to be sub-par, in spite of being 'made in the UK'. And loads of UK brands are just re-labelled Chinese or Taiwanese stuff; On-one, Planet X, Genesis, etc. It's actually quite easy to get small to large batches of say frames or handlebars or whatever, made up by massive Chi/Tai factories. And then re-label/market it as 'UK' brands. Happens all the time.
Re six weeks for shipping. When I buy from Aliexpress I accept that there was be a min 3 weeks for it to arrive. Their delivery dates are fairly accurate so you know when you order. If I don’t usually order bike parts from them as I usually need something much sooner.
I'm always buying stuff from Ali Express, but usually cheap watches, cheap electronics bits I need for the obscure projects I work on and occasionally car and bike parts.
I've had some issues with counterfeit goods and tricky customer service issues with some cranks once, (they arrived marked as 5devs and I wasn't about to send them back so they can resell them, it's also illegal to attempt to export counterfeit goods).
I've also had really good luck with cheap parts that are domestic branded. My ryet 3d printed specialike saddle is ace, for example, as are my Novatec hubs on my WTB scraper wheels I built up a few years ago.
I've just finished building an X Cobra branded alloy frame hardtail with a mix of spares and Chinese parts too, I'm yet to ride it but the CNC 4 pot iiipro E4 brakes are identical to Clarks 4 pot CNC brakes at a fraction of the cost, and the 12 speed Ltwoo RD and shifter are lovely items with a load of nice carbon on, but time will tell how they perform, and I've got some Elite wheels to chuck on my Stanton when the tyres show up, and they're impressive quality for the price point.
My Ryet bash guard and stem ordered on the 2nd are now with Royal Mail for delivery tomorrow. Free shipping too.
Just away to prepare my will.
I do like watching the YT content from terminal ADHD sufferer and AliExpress adventurer Trace Velo‘
I’d not heard he suffers ADHD. Got a source or do you just like to think yourself clever for mocking mental health issues?
A few years back I bought some Manitou Mattoc Pro forks from AliExpress - they were one of the few places I could find 26” forks with a straight steer tube at the time. They’ve been fine (still in use, just not as often now as the bike they went on is no longer my main bike). I had them serviced at TFT without comment so I’m sure they were ok. My take was that they were probably “appropriated” by someone working at the factory in Taiwan. I think this kind of appropriation isn’t uncommon (Shimano have factories in China, for example), but you need to read the comments on the seller’s website to get a feel of how genuine a part is, and even then it can be a lottery.
I’d not heard he suffers ADHD. Got a source or do you just like to think yourself clever for mocking mental health issues?
Oh get over yourself, the chap is endearingly hyperactive and enthusiastic, and you knew what I meant.
But if you need to pick me up fine... Well scored internet point.
Just avoid buying stuff from china as much as you can, with the added bonus of not experiencing this kind of dilemma
Yes and no.
I stick to buying from proven Chinese brands (that sell well in their home market) or from companies who make stuff for western brands. There's plenty of decent stuff amongst all the horrific tat.
I’d not heard he suffers ADHD. Got a source or do you just like to think yourself clever for mocking mental health issues?
is ADHD a mental health issue?
edit: a very quick google says yes and no.
My take was that they were probably “appropriated” by someone working at the factory in Taiwan. I think this kind of appropriation isn’t uncommon (Shimano have factories in China, for example), but you need to read the comments on the seller’s website to get a feel of how genuine a part is, and even then it can be a lottery.
I doubt it's going out the factory door like that these days, the big brands wouldn't stand for it and the factories won't want to lose their big customers for the sake of a few frames. It might be the case with small brands doing one off batches though where the factory has to make a few extra to cover their own QC. But not for the likes of Shimano or Manitou.
More likely it's just Chinese domestic market products that haven't been through the hands of multiple distributors and shops.
I had a Shimano c/l rotor from a reputable shop* via eBay but it was made in China Shimano not Malaysian Shimano & was warped/much lower quality than one I had so I sent it back.
That's just their cheap "for resin pads only" rotors. They're not usually bad, but they're not as good as the more expensive ones which are cut and then ground flat which is why the cheap ones have smooth rounded edges.
Ryet stuff just arrived.
Looks to be well made and finished, and the bar clamping area has a slight chamfer which is nice to see. No burrs or sharp edges etc.
