[Closed] I love Americans, but there is something seriously wrong over there...

I find it very sad that we live in a world where that exists.

Their system of government and democracy is very broken indeed. Even more than ours.

Their system of government and democracy is very broken indeed. Even more than ours

I thought that is why they want the guns, so they can fight the government when they have finally had enough of them..... I think they are going to need bigger guns 😉

I thought this was going to be about Teen Excorcists on the iplayer

bedmaker - Member
I thought this was going to be about Teen Excorcists on the iplayer

Actually, since you mention it, add them too. Flippin' Heck.

This is just a problem of how law is applied across the whole world. It is about finite detail rather than about moral obligation. It is exactly the same principle that allows things like tax avoidance.

I wish I could see a path to change it, bit I can't, and it is very very sad.

450 rounds per minute is nowhere near enough though

In Colorado its still legal to fire an automatic weapon from a helicopter.... plus they've just legalised pot. You've just gotta love those crazy Yanks.

A Texas-based gun company has found a way to transform a one-shot rifle into a lethal killing machine

so they can fight the government when they have finally had enough of them

Well at least they believe in equal opportunities...

http://www.localnews8.com/news/Iowa-gives-gun-permits-to-the-blind/-/308662/21839618/-/sygcsez/-/index.html

I don't see what to problem is... if you watch the video, it's even safe and amusing for grannies; might cut down on hats, gloves and tea cosies at crimbo though if she took to shooting up the place rather than knitting.

That is a good rifle ... I want one ...

[b]Well, guns don't kill people do.
Kill the people and the gun is safe. [/b]

🙄

Weirdest thing I saw was in a Walmart in Flagstaff Arizona.
Walked past the kids toys section and straight into the rifles, hand guns, machete and (deer) body bag section.
It was a serial killers paradise in a supermarket. Surreal really!

I read something the other day, possible in the guardian, that was saying, in several states its legal to own a handgun. If your blind. 😯
No checks, nothing. Walk in storr with your white stick, leave with a 9mm.
Yep, somethings wrong.

I read something the other day, possible in the guardian, that was saying, in several states its legal to own a handgun. If your blind.
No checks, nothing. Walk in storr with your white stick, leave with a 9mm.
Yep, somethings wrong.

Something is indeed wrong: apostrophes, spelling, and that blatant prejudice against blind people's rights. Shocking.

All seems reasonable to me.

The before school checklist:

[img] [/img]

Three days ago in Colorado :

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/us-politics/10302845/NRA-claims-victory-as-Colorado-gun-control-senators-defeated.html ]NRA claims victory as Colorado gun control senators defeated[/url]

[i][b]The American gun lobby claimed a major victory last night after it helped unseat two Colorado senators who spearheaded efforts to pass new gun control laws. [/i][/b]

Money buys you serious political clout in the US. And the NRA has plenty of money.

Damn those americans with their democracy and written constitution!

There's only three countries in the world which don't have a written constitution Z-11, so I'm not sure what your point is.

And the US doesn't have a monopoly on democracy, so I don't understand the significance of your "damn those americans with their democracy" comment.

Unbelievable. 😐

We were in the States on holiday in the summer and whilst in a Walmart I was looking at the gun counter in amazement, shotgun cartridges on the shelves not even under lock and key FFS. There was a childs size .22 'squirrel rifle' with a pastel pink stock. I pointed it out to my daughter who said (bearing in mind this was in Oklahoma so a real gun toting state) "Daddy, why would little girls need a gun" and to my surprise the guy behind the counter said "that is a very good question young lady". Why?

Comments are pretty interesting too. and as for being "Scared of Freedom", after Wiki Leaks and Ed Snowdon they and us may be deluding ourself as to how much freedom we actually have...

to my surprise the guy behind the counter said "that is a very good question young lady"

Not EVERYONE in the states is pro gun, you know. There's a lot of heated debate about gun control, in fact.

Americans are thick as **** to be fair, they'd be a third world country if it wasn't for us.

Racism?

As an American friend of mine said:
"Gun control is an excuse we use here in the USA to not discuss issues of racial and economic inequality. If you're white, the US is as safe or safer than many countries in Europe which we are unfavorably compared to."

He is right as well.

Americans are thick as **** to be fair, they'd be a third world country if it wasn't for us.

Poor trolling from a thick Brit? Or just not well travelled?

they'd be a third world country if it wasn't for us.

Oh go on, I can't resist .........why's that then ?

Poor trolling from a thick Brit? Or just not well travelled?

If it's a troll it's hardly a poor troll as they got you hook line and sinker.

rapid single shots are more accurate than automatic fire and conserve ammunition, it's also easier to count the rounds to anticipate mag changes....

these are important considerations when you are preparing to take on a zombie horde which can the only (remotely) logical reason for a civilian to own such a weapon

Not exactly relevant to the example of that ^ ugly/despicable killing machine up there but the older i get the more jaded i become about where we are heading as a so western democratic caring society, in fact i now genuinely believe that our form of veneered democracy in our developed world is nothing more than a smokescreen pulled over our eyes to placate us into believing we actually have a choice as to what goes on so in the manner of "dragons den"......I'm out.

And to the makers of that weapon above and the meathead who's pulling the trigger in that video? - i genuinely pity you, but if i ever had the chance to meet the CEO or suchlike of that company i'd bitch-slap them in the face and ask " Why?, what is the point?.

Not EVERYONE in the states is pro gun, you know. There's a lot of heated debate about gun control, in fact.

Yep, especially if you're black and live in Florida!

[img] [/img]

Never mind the guns. They voted Dubya in!! TWICE!!!

I like guns.
And it if it hadn't have been for government I'd still have my guns and be enjoying them. So dont know what their talking about.

I would never disagree with someone without walking a mile in their shoes because firstly, I'd be a mile away and id also have your shoes.

I'll bet the vast majority of people posting on this thread have never fired a shot.

I like guns.

Just curious here. It's not some sort of dig with a rhetorical point.

But why?

I'm guessing its similar to my brothers Archery kit. But don't have any real understanding.

I like trebuchets - but it's irresponsible to own one in a built-up area.

Oh I dunno - Truro Cycles [as was, mad as a box of frogs] build a deodorant cannon and fired stuff across a couple of street at Clive Mitchell's place once.... 😉

I find it really rather stupid when the pro gun lobby claim that having such weapons available to all and sundry makes them all safer.

How many times have we heard the phrase 'The weapons were legally held' following yet another tragic nut jobs rampage of murder.

bencooper - Member

I like trebuchets - but it's irresponsible to own one in a built-up area.

Never truer word said, Hand guns and rifles however are not siege weapons.

piemonster

Just curious here. It's not some sort of dig with a rhetorical point.

But why?

I'm guessing its similar to my brothers Archery kit. But don't have any real understanding.

Your probably quite right, Our range was a very social place and in between the manly chatting we got to make lots of noise with shiney expensive guns. There was a competition element involved also and bragging rights to show the guy next to you that you were a better shot.

I started in my early teens shooting with my dad and the responsability involved gave me an enormous sense of satisfaction.

Never mind the guns. They voted Dubya in!! TWICE!!!

They didn't actually, the yanks aren't that stupid, he had to get his brother to rig the results on one occasion.

The Brits on the other hand, gave Tony Blair a thumping great majority THREE times. Even after it had become clear that he was a cheating liar. Now I call that stupid.

450 rounds per minute is nowhere near enough though

Is that all? I'd want at least 650b rounds per min to feel safe.

It was a serial killers paradise in a supermarket.

Perhaps that's the idea, make buying guns so mundane and easy that nobody sees serial killing as a challenge anymore. "I was going to become a serial killer, but there wasn't much to it, anyone can buy a gun, so I took up juggling instead."

Never truer word said, Hand guns and rifles however are not siege weapons.

But they're equally irresponsible to own in a built-up area.

I started in my early teens shooting with my dad and the responsability involved gave me an enormous sense of satisfaction.

I grew up making explosives with my dad. I'm proud to say it gave me no sense of responsibility whatsoever 😉

And have you SEEN how they use a knife and fork?

From memory, or at least for the states I visited (and yes we looked at the gun shops and asked) you can't simply walk in and get any gun without any checks, that's utter drivel.

If I remember correctly you need several forms of ID, the gun shop is required to do a criminal records check, and there's something like a 2 week cooling off period, so that if you're planning on buying a gun in anger to top someone, you have time to calm down before you get it.

Ah but you CAN go to a gun show and pick up a gun without checks. And even in shops the requirements vary from state to state.

I like shooting, archery or guns, it's a good sport. But it's just as much fun with an air rifle as a .44. And yes I have shot both.

There's a big difference between an automatic weapon and a .22 handgun. If you can't see that then you aren't equipped to join in the debate imo.

bencooper - Member

Never truer word said, Hand guns and rifles however are not siege weapons.

But they're equally irresponsible to own in a built-up area.

What anymore than a chainsaw, a gallon of petrol and a match or a machete.

What anymore than a chainsaw, a gallon of petrol and a match or a machete.

Yes.

I can't accidentally start my chainsaw and kill someone 100 yards away.

piemonster
Just curious here. It's not some sort of dig with a rhetorical point.

But why?

I've been shooting, only .22s and air rifles, and it's fun in the same way that playing pool or darts is fun.

bencooper - Member

What anymore than a chainsaw, a gallon of petrol and a match or a machete.

Yes.

I can't accidentally start my chainsaw and kill someone 100 yards away.

No just 2 feet away.

Unless for home defence, a responsible gun owner would never bring a gun and ammo together unless at a range.

Well, ref the modified rifle above, at least "it’s fairly idiot-proof".

Thank God for that then ....

My missus is a yank, she hates guns. Last time we were over there I went to a range with my BiL and fired both handguns (easy) and fully automatic machine guns (terrifying, and really difficult to use accurately).

Bloke running the shop explained that apparently the military were not sold on some of the more high tech kit, 'wastes too many bullets'

Good grief.

Unless for home defence, a responsible gun owner would never bring a gun and ammo together unless at a range.

So why not just leave them at the range?

Unless for home defence, a responsible gun owner would never bring a gun and ammo together unless at a range.

Last tour I was on I stayed with someone in New Mexico who carried his loaded handgun in a holster all the time in the house or outside. It didn't bother me. Their country, their rules.

You know you are in America when locals talk about Jesus, the Devil, and reincarnation instead of the weather and libraries have "No Guns" signs.

If you ever want to doubt the sanity of the entire American race, just drink a cup of tea over there.

If that only leaves you wavering then eat a hershey bar for full confirmation.

I like great big nuclear submarines with enormous power to decimate continents of life. I like the ones with unstable russians with scottish accents the best.

So why not just leave them at the range?

I think leaving a large number of guns in one place might have security risks? Just guessing really. Spreading them out may make a less risky target. Perhaps?

piemonster - Member

Just curious here. It's not some sort of dig with a rhetorical point.

But why?

They're nice mechanisms for one thing- ingenious and incredibly evolved. Nice to hold and take to bits etc bit like a very large, easy to work on watch, precise but durable. And action at a distance is satisfying. I haven't done very much shooting but always enjoyed it. I just feel like the right to shoot things for fun is less important than the right to not get shot, probably.

bencooper - Member

Unless for home defence, a responsible gun owner would never bring a gun and ammo together unless at a range.

So why not just leave them at the range?

Most US sportsman's/gun clubs don't have an on-site storage vault. A few do, but most gun owners prefer to take them home.

That way, you can clean the gun at your convenience. For instance, if you have a teenage daughter, the ideal time for firearms maintenance would coincide with her date arriving at your house on a Friday evening to take her out. 😉 The suitor can then get a feel for the family, and how he should behave on his date (as well as what might happen if he misbehaves). 😆

I live in Pennsylvania. It is perfectly legal to carry firearms in the open everywhere except Philadelphia (Philly is Pennsylvania's only "city of the first class" and open carry isn't permitted in those types of cities by state law). While it is legal elsewhere, it probably would not be worth the hassle.

So the county sheriff issues concealed carry permits. They cost $20, and are good for several years I believe. You fill out a form, they run a background check, and then issue the permit. No big deal at all.

No, you can't take guns into the courthouse, even with a permit. You check them with the Sheriff's Deputy at the metal detector inside the door; they hold it for you and give you a receipt. Sort of like a coat check... 😉

The zombies don't stand a chance over here!

Edit - here is the concealed carry [url= http://www.co.westmoreland.pa.us/DocumentCenter/View/315 ]application[/url] if anyone needs it.

Unless for home defence, a responsible gun owner would never bring a gun and ammo together unless at a range.

Great idea, but in reality those sensible people would only want to shoot at paper targets in a range and would not need to have the guns at home. After a while you just have to accept the reason is so that you can, and because somebody once though that after a civil war owning guns would be great and it makes a point, they are generally used to shoot people so if you really think thats a good thing then admit it.

Sometimes it's time to accept that the world has changed, most people in the states don't hunt for their own food or have to defend themselves against outlaws or disgruntled locals that they just displaced from their lands in a great bout of ethnic cleansing/genocide. Move with the times, especially if you want to lecture the rest of the world on issues such as human rights and democracy.

I'm surprised it's taken so long for someone to post [url=http://

I hope it works, I'm a bit rubbish with links.

I think it nicely sums up the reasons many Americans carry guns, it's about fear etc. I carry a penknife, always have, use it for all sorts of things including peeling fruit and I would never consider it a self defence item yet others do. However guns only really have one purpose when carried outside a range and that's where the issues lie.

FWIW I've shot a number of handguns and rifles and appreciate a well engineered piece of kit and the feeling of accomplishment you get from being an accurate shot.

If you had a gun with a bayonet you could peel an orange

Piemonster... 😆

I could stop the neighbours cat defacating in my garden with one of those.

So, owning a gun is a right, and converting a rifle to full auto is cool in the US, eh?

Meanwhile, this happens to kids who play at guns in school:

A Louisiana high school student has been arrested for using a mobile app to simulate shooting his classmates. The app overlays an FPS-style gun and UI over a real background seen through the device's camera. The student tried it out and then unwisely posted a video of it on YouTube. Another student's parent saw the video and reported it to authorities. Major Wolfe of the local police said, "You can't ignore it. We don't know at what time that game becomes reality. He said it was a result of him being frustrated and tired of being bullied. He said that he had no intentions of hurting anybody. We have to take all threats seriously and we have no way of knowing that without investigating and getting to the bottom of it. With all the school shooting we've had in the United States, it's just not a very good game to be playing at this time." The boy is now facing criminal charges for terrorizing and interference of the operation of a school.

Via [url= http://news.slashdot.org/story/13/09/14/123236/student-arrested-for-using-phone-app-to-shoot-classmates ]Slashdot[/url]

Last tour I was on I stayed with someone in New Mexico who carried his loaded handgun in a holster all the time in the house or outside. It didn't bother me. Their country, their rules.

Might be legal but it's very strange behaviour. Did you ask why?

dont think much more needs to be said

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24120333

Lets see how the pro gun people spin this.
Retards the ****ing lot of em.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/mass-shootings-central-american-history-article-1.1457514

They'll spin it the same way they spun it last time, and the time before, and the time before.

God Bless the NRA.

Lets see how the pro gun people spin this.

The standard response is that if the gunman had been shot earlier there would have been less deaths. So the answer is of course - more guns available to more people.

I can't accidentally start my chainsaw and kill someone 100 yards away.

Lets see how the pro gun people spin this

Need - More - Guns

I like trebuchets - but it's irresponsible to own one in a built-up area.

Never truer word said, Hand guns and rifles however are not siege weapons.

I like nuclear weapons. But I dont think that they should ever be used unless for peaceful purposes.

If you can afford a few to play with you should go for it. You'll need to buy a few islands to play with them on too.

Much as I think the gun lobby in the states are a bunch of swivel eyed loons, I don't see how any gun control would have stopped the shootings yesterday in Washington. From what I've heard on the news a bloke with a legitimate reason to be in the Navy Yard got hold of some firearms from the stores and stated shooting people. There is no way that even the most draconian gun control laws could have prevented this (unless you plan to do away with the military completely).

No, they're far more dangerous that Siege weapons - rather the people that own them are. So you either eliminate the people or the gun, whichever is easiest.

Te current situation certainly is eliminating plenty of people, but not necessarily the right people.

After the latest, tragically inevitable bullet-fest, they had the usual American politicians being asked on Radio 4 this morning

"do you think this will change attitudes to gun control?"

Why do they even bother asking them any more? Of course it won't! Nothing will. As a nation they seem addicted to some by-gone, wild west frontier notion of guns as somehow boldly representing their values. And if loads of people happen to get killed every year by nutters with easy access to firearms, then they seem to have decided, almost unanimously, that this is a price worth paying.

Insane!

I suppose the argument there is that having guns less "normalised" probably also discourages shooting sprees- it becomes less in the public mind, reduces copycats etc, also reduces familiarity with weapons which has got to reduce the actual danger... Though I don't know if that applies here.

It's just as easy to lay your hand on a sword today as it was in the 1600s, but you're less likely to walk up to a fellow gentleman and challenge them to a duel because that's now seen as batshit crazy, rather than something that you read about in the news...

It is all very sad.

As a nation they seem addicted to some by-gone, wild west frontier notion of guns as somehow boldly representing their values.

No. No they don't. SOME people do and the politicians lack the balls to fight the special interest groups that represent the lobbies that power politics there. Plenty of Americans own guns for totally sane reasons (live out in the wilds where a risk of wolves, bears, coyotes or wildcat attacks are very real for example) but some have them because they are a bit "odd" (bloke I met in Vegas buying a gun to have for "between the car and the house"). It's the latter ones that you need to worry about, not the former who tend to be responsible gun owners.