[Closed] I just put on a CD and it sounded incredible. Fix my streaming…

Possibly this? Wiim mini.

No personal experience but seems popular though hard to get at the moment. The Chromecast,TV thing does sound cumbersome but I'd have thought that the data to the dac would have been the same.

Iirc the guy in the link above might have done a video discussing the various streaming platforms. I don't think it amounted to much of a difference.

Your last comment is what I do - a raspberry pi with Justboom digital out ‘hat’ constantly on and running Volumio software.

This allows me to airplay from any device to the Pi and out into the amp digitally (Arcam SR250 with decent built in dac)

Also have iPad through camera kit and out to usb to coax Xmos based converter and then into amp digitally again.

iPad uses Amazon HD and streams Apple lossless versions of our cd collection.

Only a few weeks ago decided to get the CD player out - Arcam CD73T. Sounded good but tbh it wasn’t any different to the above digital audio and far less convenient.

Once set up and left, the Rpi has been faultless and has the benefit of radio etc when needed.

I’ve not used Spotify but maybe you could airplay it to a Pi. Make sure you set all apps to the highest quality streaming, as most default to relatively low quality which will almost certainly not be as good as cd.

Chromecast Audio?

Looks like trying a digital out hat is going to be a cheap way to experiment, at the very least. I’ll report on results. If there’s no improvement I’ll have to revisit the old lossless debate and try a different streaming service.

But I’m astounded that me (Lapsed hifi enthusiast but grounded by also being an electronic engineer so ignores the hifi bull****) and the mrs have been stunned by how different it sounds. Lows are lower, highs are sweeter, quiet bits are quieter, dynamics are more dynamic. Ok I sound like the hifi magazines I used to read now, but it just makes you want to listen to music. Worth getting this right.

Chromecast Audio?

Does that give a digital out directly? Just googling it myself…

Chromecast Audio?
Does that give a digital out directly? Just googling it myself…

Answering my own question: it does.
Hmm. That might win all the convenience points. But at £70 I have to risk that I still can’t actually tell if chromecast delivers Spotify at its highest bitrate despite googling. Still, less time expended than messing round with a rPi.

I have a Yamaha WXAD10 Wireless Streaming thingee.
No longer available but something similar must exist.

I "cast" from my phone to the device and then into the Hifi.

Sounds a lot better than the old Chromecast - TV - Hifi setup I used to run.
I tried various Raspberry Pi solutions but it was always a faff.

Nothing weird going on with the current Chromecast or the TV? Does it have settings to cap throughput quality, or isn't set to bitstream PCM?

Sounds a lot better than the old Chromecast – TV – Hifi setup I used to run.

Encouraging. There’s a few too many opportunities for someone (chromecast? Tv?) to do something in my current streaming setup to the audio signal that isn’t optimal for the audio signal, because they have other priorities.

Nothing weird going on with the current Chromecast or the TV? Does it have settings to cap throughput quality, or isn’t set to bitstream PCM?

Yep, good point, I’ve been through the telly settings, it’s straight pcm through as far as the telly tells me. and the chromecast settings… there are none. Spotify app set to max but not sure if this is reflected in the chromecast.

Thanks to all of you, you’ve given my confidence to try something else with a modest outlay, should deliver an improvement.

Tidal through a DAC into a hifi. Sounds the same as CD through the same DAC. It’s a Cambridge Dacmagic 100 and they have a store on eBay for returns for a discount.

DACs have moved on a long way. But what’s the bitrate from Spotify? Tidal is CD lossless. It’s demonstrably better than the Spotify stream of the same track. And Deezer, although the hifi Deezer is also fine.

Spotify to Chromecast audio and a Yamaha amp and to my 60 years old ears sounds 👍

Sorry guys, CD’s stuck on a scratch. Back in a min.

Tidal through a DAC into a hifi. Sounds the same as CD through the same DAC.

Spotify to Chromecast audio and a Yamaha amp and to my 60 years old ears sounds

More confirmation of my initial suspicion that streaming should sound more or less as good as my cds. If I don’t quite get there with new hardware I’ll definitely try moving to tidal for lossless.

Gonna stick massive attack - blue lines on now.

The rpi being a faff to use is not valid tbh. I hate faff and simply won’t mess about for long.

Getting the pi ready was a simple download to memory card, plug in the pi and configure its settings - done.

No messing with coding or anything. 10 minutes tops.

Tried a Chromecast ages ago but it didn’t support gapless playback, making it no good for my music with a lot of it being DJ mixes.

Tidal streamed from a 2012 MBP with optical out of the 3.5mm socket to the DAC. CD is also digital out to same DAC. I’ve also streamed a slightly higher rate via USB from my W10 laptop to the same DAC (I chose it really as a switching device between work Teams and personal Zooms into the hifi). Again no difference. I’ve not sent Bluetooth from the phone as there will be degraded signal compression.

Tidal is great.

I use an Echo Link directly into my power amps via inline attenuators to get the level right. Coupled with a HD streaming sub it's outstanding in my view. A bit less warm than my CD player but much more detailed. I think they work with Spotify as well. The Echo Link Plus includes an amp, which was not reviewed well but the criticisms relate to the amp itself - however the regular Echo Link is just a streamer.

I think I’ve still got a Chromecast Audio sitting unloved in a cupboard, message me if you’re interested, it’ll be cheap 🙂

I have a Yamaha WXAD10 Wireless Streaming thingee.
No longer available but something similar must exist.

I “cast” from my phone to the device and then into the Hifi

I assume that the quotes around the cast are to take account of the fact that you tell the Yamaha controller what you want to play from the MusicCast phone app and the controller takes it from there.
OP If you're using bluetooth or similar to send music to the hifi that can have an effect on the sound quality. You're looking for a Spotify player that is plugged into your router with a quality on-board/separate DAC.

That Yamqha device above is great. Its controlled by your phone, but with streaming is either wifi or ethernet cable. Its a good addition to an older hifi i think.

Ian

The problem is Spotify. Grab a free trial of Tidal or Apple Music (doesn't need an iPhone) and you'll hear the difference straight away.

Chromecast to your amp via optical pretty much solves the DAC problems. If you can get decent sound from a CD, you've already got a good DAC.

As well as all the above, Spotify does not have the best sound quality - by design I might add.
Perhaps worth giving a free trial of Qobuz or Tidal a go and see if that helps also.

Apologies - just re-read your OP and seen your comment re: bitrates etc. I would still give it a go. Whilst I would not profess to be able to hear the difference between Red Book CD quality and Hi-Res I can easily tell the difference between lossy Spotify and lossless Qobuz. It isn't even close. Ditto MP3 and FLAC.

I think I’ve still got a Chromecast Audio sitting unloved in a cupboard, message me if you’re interested, it’ll be cheap 🙂

Pm sent!

Moving to a chromecast audio will nicely eliminate the tv from the audio chain, which I suspect will help, even though it’s a digital chain I’m sure there’s some reclocking and “bad things” happening in that signal chain.

And responding to the more recent contributors, trialling a high resolution streaming service is definitely on the cards. I’ll report on my results!

I've used CHromecast Audio for years and it is great. However, it appears to no longer be supported properly. I used to be able to go into the settings and do things like set it to full dynamic range (sounded awful without this on my hifi) and turn off playback sounds as in the link below. However, the only settings I now seem to have access to are bass & treble?

https://support.google.com/chromecast/answer/6290498?hl=en-GB&co=GENIE.Platform%3DAndroid

As above, I'm very happy with Qobuz or Tidal (I've settled on the former for their curations and integration with Roon) streaming through a Bluesound Node - my CD player hasn't really been used for a long time now, a stupidly expensive relic on a rack...

Problems in order of effect:

Depending on TV it could be pushing through DA - AD to give you an optical out. It likely has a terrible DAC.

Chrome cast has a setting to enable High Res from trialling it a while back. Out of the box it won’t be. It’s called something totally innocuous and is not intuitive. Even when this is solved Chromecast isn’t perfect in comparison to a high end streamer.

Spotify sounds notably worse even in its high res mode that is really just 320. Test out Qobuz with your setup once you’ve sorted the above. For me it beats Tidal as you don’t need a fancy DAC with MQA to go full HD.

Your setup will cost a stupid amount of money to beat today taking into account inflation. The X-A1 is very transparent and will highlight both poor quality recordings that no streaming service can solve, in addition to poor quality input. Make sure you are testing the same song from the same album. Even in 24bit audio if the album was mastered poorly it will still sound crap. Newer versions of old albums are often remastered and compressed to sound better with headphones. Even Spotify will feature multiple versions of the same album but can be hard to tell which.

Rasp Pi into your chosen DAC is decent option.

@simondbarnes

Try "Device features" -Audio.

Full Dynamic is in there, though, the new interface/options are a bit poor, might have to switch to a rPi if it gets any more limited!

Also, if you're still only seeing limited features, you might need to reboot/reconnect.

In my home office I use a first generation Sonos Connect for Spotify and radio duties. They're around £50 on ebay.

Edited to add: to my untrained ears I can't tell the difference between spotify/CD/NAS

I think I’ve still got a Chromecast Audio sitting unloved in a cupboard, message me if you’re interested, it’ll be cheap 🙂

I bought 4 or 5 of them when they discontinued them, they were on sale as "end of line" at our local electronics warehouse place, about 18 quid each, made a tidy profit when they started appearing on ebay etc.

BTW to the OP, is there anyway you can test without connecting your chromecast via the telly? Just run it straight into the DAC.

I've got dedicated Chromecasts (or rPI running Volumio) for each device and on 320kbps it's *almost* indistinguishable from CD. (If i want indistinguishable i pull music from the server which is stored losslessly.)

Hey there - hope I can add something useful to this thread.

There are two broad reasons why your current streaming experience sounds considerably worse than a red book CD. One is that streaming is still an inferior way to replay music than having the media stored locally, whether that local storage be red book CD or a downloaded 44/16 or higher copy. This hold true in all instances I’ve tested so far - a downloaded version of the same album sounds better than the streamed version; not by much but the difference is definitely there. Then of course you have the fact that, at this time, Spotify is not even close to 44/16 resolution BUT they are about to launch just such a service.

The second reason is that the equipment you use to receive, organise and then pass the media to your DAC for decoding makes a huge difference. At the moment you’re using equipment not designed for the job to stream to your DAC; it will work, but comparing this set up to the CD player is a bit like wondering why an sports saloon car doesn’t perform as well on track as track car.

You need a dedicated music sever/streamer if what you want is something that will compete with the CD player you have; it doesn’t have to cost a fortune, but if you think about it, you've got an excellent transport currently performing the duties of data retrieval for red book CD and then a phone and telly doing it for streaming.

When I put together my HiFi last year, the last piece I had delivered was the music server. Before that, I was using my MBP with Roon. I was not anticipating the server making that much difference but I could not have been more wrong. The inclusion of a dedicated server was a huge jump (yes, OK it was a reasonably expensive server at £5k but still the improvement was astounding).

The other thing to highlight is Roon, which as a user experience for music is second to none. That platform does not have any of it’s own music content (but it does have extensive libraries of information which is what makes it such a rich experience), so you need to integrate it with a streaming service such as Tidal or Qobuz. I use the latter because you can get a lot of super high res media through it, up to an including DSD material, which will blow you away if you can indeed play it through your DAC (not all DACs can handle the files).

So my recommendation would be as follows:

- Look to get a dedicated music server, perhaps something like a Roon Nucleus which will also allow you to run Roon in your system
- Subscribe to either Tidal or Qobuz for high res streaming
- Look to buy and download local copies of media for the stuff you really like and treat having your own copy as being just like buying CDs was back in the day.

Hope this helps. Happy to answer any more questions.

One is that streaming is still an inferior way to replay music than having the media stored locally

Not sure if this is necessarily the case. Digital music is a stream of bits, it doesn't actually matter if that stream is being read off a CD and decoded in the CD player, or if it's being beamed over the internet and decoded in a streaming unit as long as the stream of bits is the same. If you have a HD music streaming service, then it will be - at least that's what they advertise. In many cases, as an Amazon HD music subscriber, the bit stream is higher resolution than what would be on a CD. If, however, you are using what they call 'SD' audio then it's compressed, which can sound worse (but this is a debatable topic).

A quick search suggests Spotify are promising to release 'Spotify Hifi' but this hasn't happened yet. So you're listening to compressed audio via a number of hops - and it's not quite clear what all those steps are doing in your setup although on the face of it they shouldn't matter.

Also, re compressed vs uncompressed - it's quite a subtle thing. In a test where you switch from one to the other, you might not notice, but I have found that over hours or days you start to be able to tell the difference. When Amazon Music got confused and started streaming me SD audio one time, I could tell straight away.

Spotify connect on phone ->chromecast->hdmi to telly->optical to the tag mclaren dac.

From the OP, this bit jumps out for several reasons. Spotify's own specs say its quality depends on your network connection, but ranges from 24kb/s (low) to 96kb/s (normal) and 160kb/s (high quality). That's not a great starting point, it has to be said.
From there, the sheer number of connections is a little concerning (perhaps wrongly).

My own setup is/ would be: Sonos Connect, hardwired to your router on one side, digital out to the DAC on the other. Then use Spotify on the Sonos, or (my preference) rip your CDs to the highest quality format you can (FLAC, or even WAV) on a NAS or spare computer. Hardwire that to your router, and play your music that way.
It's a bit of an investment, but gives the most flexibility and, in my semi-experienced, uh, experience, allows you to get as close as possible to CD quality.

I'll get slated by the audiophile mob for this - but try running some sort of equaliser software on your phone first before chucking ££££ at the problem.

I run Boom on my MacBook and it really does help.

Not sure if this is necessarily the case. Digital music is a stream of bits, it doesn’t actually matter if that stream is being read off a CD and decoded in the CD player, or if it’s being beamed over the internet

It's a fair point but the difference between streaming and local playback is error correction (with locally stored media the error correction process can be done more effectively) and noise, streaming being subject to more noise than locally stored.

The difference is subtle I agree, but it's definitely there, all other things being equal.

noise, streaming being subject to more noise than locally stored.

I'm going to question this. How does noise come into internet streaming? Spotify and others apparently use TCP which wouldn't be susceptible to missed bytes in the same way that there aren't random odd letters in this page of text we're both reading.

[Ripping CDs] a bit of an investment, but gives the most flexibility

I'm going to disagree here too - well, offer an alternative view anyway 🙂 The massive benefit of streaming music is that you can listen to stuff you haven't already bought, with far more variety than the piss poor selection of radio stations we have in the UK. And I can simply ask for an album I own if I feel like it as well. And then, on Amazon, when that album finishes it'll continue playing stuff that's similar which for me is the best way to get new stuff rather than the stations and playlists.

I’m going to question this. How does noise come into internet streaming?

Honestly no idea and there's every chance the suggestion is spurious. 😂

What's not spurious is the difference in audio quality (yes I've tested it, yes it was blind).

Edit. Perhaps the noise in a streaming set up would be introduced at the point the data enters to house. You have a data stream coming out of a router, down a cable and then into the music server (or whatever you're using). I know that routers are very 'noisy' devices and cable runs, which are very necessary, are where noise can end up getting into the signal path.

Again I could be wrong, I'm mostly regurgitating what I've read that was written by engineers. What I am knowledgable about is what I can hear and what difference certain things make to what I hear.

Yeah, i've ripped all my CDs (And DVD/Blurays) and put them on a server, in hindsight i should have just subscribed to two music services, a lot of my CDs weren't available on spotify, but are available elsewhere (eventually) so i spent weeks ripping stuff, most of which is now available elsewhere.

Also, the position of speakers and suchlike isn't really that good (i've got to have a life as well, so do the kids!), so i could easily cope with just using the poorer versions available online, rather than the .wav i have on the server.

mert
Free Member
@simondbarnes

Try “Device features” -Audio.

I don't have that option

Also, if you’re still only seeing limited features, you might need to reboot/reconnect.

Done that. no difference. It appears that the current version of Google Home has limited options for Chromecast Audio (after a quick look through the Google forums - which are bloody awful. Makes me laugh that people complain about this place!)

I just picked up an old Panasonic BluRay player and checked out the WhatHifi review.

https://www.whathifi.com/panasonic/dmp-bd45/review

Simple machine - it has no analogue audio outputs - so the only way sound is being processed is that it takes a digital bitstream off the disc and sends it over the HDMI cable to be decoded by whatever amp you're using.

What Hifi criticises audio for being "insubstantial and there's a lack of solidity to the sound"

Shrugs.

I'm not a network expert but as I understand it streaming comes via TCP which is a protocol designed to guarantee the correct data has been received. It uses a checksum, meaning that the outgoing data is divided up into packets and a number calculated based on the contents of the packet, called a checksum. This is sent along with the packet. At the other end, another checksum is calculated against what was received, and the two checksums compared. If it doesn't match, the receiver knows it hasn't been received correctly so it can ask for it again. This is important for things where accuracy is crucial e.g. text, but latency is not. You can wait another 100ms for your STW page to load, no bother, but you don't want it full of garbage text (certain threads notwithstanding).

The other way commonly used transmit data over the internet is UDP, where the data stream is divided up into chunks and sent, and if it's wrong it's wrong. This is best for some streaming applications like gaming or voice communication because you need the data asap, and if there's a mistake it will just manifest itself as a glitch in sound or in the position of a player in a game, and the next bit of data will correct that.

You might think they'd use UDP for music streaming, because it's streaming, but it's not real-time - the music has been recorded a long time ago and as long as all the chunks arrive in the right order it doesn't matter how long they take to get to you, same for movies. Music streaming receives data quite a long way in advance of what you are listening to - you could download the entire track in fits and starts, but as long as it all arrives ahead of the bit you're listening to you're ok. It could even be downloading the next track in the playlist whilst you are listening to the previous one.

The person talking about noise: it’s not always rubbish but in most cases not as simple as local Vs streaming.

What I see is decent CD player like Arcam or high end streamer. In both cases they have well thought design and decent PSU.

They are then compared to streaming into a cut price streamer / dac / preamp. These do create noise due to:

Cheap switching PSU
Poor or no grounding
Poor internal design / isolation

What’s more confusing is that a lot of the cut price Chinese DAC’s are actually pretty decent if you add a half decent PSU. Check this at the low - mid range products aimed to solve that are actually pretty decent: https://ifi-audio.com/products/ipower/

Anyway, decent stream from Qobuz itself is just 1 and 0’s and in itself will not contain noise.

Enjoy..

I have 2 PIs using https://www.hifiberry.com/dacs/

pi zero W works really well and is tiny.

Sound is really good, but your setup is higher standard than mine.

It allows you to "cast" from within spotify to the pi.

They are then compared to streaming into a cut price streamer / dac / preamp. These do create noise due to:

Cheap switching PSU
Poor or no grounding
Poor internal design / isolation

Yes, this is relevant to the DAC not the source of the bit-stream. We're talking about a CD transport vs internet streaming; as you say anything with analogue compoonents in it, which is wherever the digital stream gets converted to analogue signals is going to be highly quality dependent.

I assume that the quotes around the cast are to take account of the fact that you tell the Yamaha controller what you want to play from the MusicCast phone app and the controller takes it from there.

Spotify will cast directly to my Yamaha, you don't need Musiccast. In hi res mode, it sounds close enough to CD that I can't be bothered to rip them.

Looks like the phone to Chromecast bit might be the limiting factor?

'Chromecast devices will receive file tracks encoded with AAC with a maximum bitrate of 256 kbps, while Spotify Connect devices can receive the best quality audio encoded in OGG Vorbis at a bitrate of approx. 320 kbps.'

My setup now is a Pi running MyVolumio/Qobuz and my Chord DAC. Instead of a HAT I use a Topping D10s as a bridge between the Pi USB and my DAC.

Chromecast devices will receive file tracks encoded with AAC

Oh I missed this. If your phone is Android it may not be using AAC at a high bit rate. It might be lower, or it might be using SBC which if my headphones experience is anything to go by will be rubbish.

I don’t have that option

Bugger, i still do.

I’m gonna go with raspberry pi. There’s too much unknown with the chromecast, that’s the only downside to stuff that “just works” - best not to ask how. Should be up and running with the pi very quickly. Just about to order the hifi berry digi 2 pro to get me a digital audio out on the pi.

@simondbarnes

I had this problem recently. In Google Home does it appear as a Chromecast Audio or as a Speaker? It should be a speaker - if it isn't, remove it from your network and Google home, Factory reset the Chromecast Audio, reinstall it. The missing options should then appear.

Slight hijack, but do Chromecast Audio sound good or not?

(Arcam Alpha amplifier and Acoustic Energy Speakers would be the rest, non-optical connector to the amp)

@sixtoes - they appear as speakers...

Starting point: What phone by the way?
I had an LG V20 phone a couple of years ago with a Quad-dac, jack out of that was way better sound than Samsungs or iPhones. Probably the only thing the whole family agreed on music-wise!

It's also ok to just enjoy CDs and vinyl. I don't use a streaming service at home because I like the inlay cards, cover art etc.

Away from home it's gold but at home I enjoy physical format.

It’s also ok to just enjoy CDs and vinyl. I don’t use a streaming service at home because I like the inlay cards, cover art etc.

Away from home it’s gold but at home I enjoy physical format.

I would always rather listen to my records than streaming but they're not very convenient for listening in bed or in the bath 🙂

Right you lot, this is getting interesting.

There’s a digital source experiment about to start.
The constant throughout will be my DAC; an aged but high end unit, and my aged but nice analogue amp and speakers. You will have to put up with my aged but nice ears to let you know how it goes.
I will be trying several digital source variables.

I’ve got a 3.5mm to optical toslink cable coming in the post, cost £3. That means this weekend I’ll be able to test feeding my DAC with signal from my (haha, aged but nice) 2012 MacBook pro, cutting the chromecast and tv out of the mix. Thanks to TiRed for posting he uses this setup with tidal - I hadn’t realised I could get a digital out from the MacBook.
I will test Spotify and tidal and Qobuz.

I’ve ordered a hifiberry digi2 pro to give me a digital audio output from my raspberry pi. I expect this to be my long term solution - if it delivers the goods on convenience and sound. But let’s not pre-empt the experimental results yet!

Phil5556 is going to check his cupboards to see if he can still find that Chromecast Audio. Unlike my current chromecast, the Audio variant will go direct from to DAC via optical, cutting out the hdmi->tv bit. I’ll also try it in analogue out mode and try and answer midlifecrashes Q above. That will also inform my question… once we’ve sorted the digital source (assuming it can be made as good as CD) how does my aged dac compare to low cost modern stuff?

I will test Spotify and tidal and Qobuz.

Whilst you're at it, do make sure you have a listen to some high res files on Qobuz. A really good album to listen to is Daft Punk's Random Access Memories, which is available in 88/24 but is also a supremely well engineered album. Enjoy.

Side note on a few q’s above:

I have a record setup that I love. Rega planar 3, a RIAA pre-amp I designed (ok, copied and blended other peoples designs) and built myself.

But

I would always rather listen to my records than streaming but they’re not very convenient for listening in bed or in the bath 🙂

Kinda this.

Records are reserved for special listening when I’m on my own. I was a bit surprised, going back to the start of this thread, that CD’s should be revered in the same way. I thought my streaming setup was filling that use case - just sticking some music on. We dug out the cds following TOTP 1994 as I recalled to my partner how every weekend my dad was playing music loud, and I wanted my 3 year old daughter to grow up with music. When we put the cds on suddenly the music was more powerful and exciting, and whether my daughter can hear that or not, she can feel my excitement. The aim is to achieve that with the added convenience of streaming.

Another side note:

Starting point: What phone by the way?

Phones not part of the equation. With chromecast, the phone is merely instructing the chromecast to autonomously stream a song over WiFi (via Spotify connect in my case). I could of course connect the phone via a headphone cable to the amp. Might be an interesting addition to the experiment… how does an iPhone 11 analogue out compare to a 20 year old £1500 (then) DAC?

Nor is Bluetooth a factor, that others have mentioned.

When we put the cds on suddenly the music was more powerful and exciting

Your streaming sound can be just as good and likely way way better than your CD player into the DAC, you just need a really good music server. It's your source in a set up like this and the quality of the box makes a ton of difference.

Your streaming sound can be just as good

I’m absolutely convinced of this from everyone’s response.

I’m very curious to see the step from Spotify, once I’m sure it’s working it’s best, to a higher bitrate platform.

But so far, I have opinions. Let’s do an experiment!

@simondbarnes

Mine looks just like that except I have a settings cog icon between the equaliser and triple dot icon in the top right of the second picture.

I've no idea... maybe a permissions thing? Is it your Google account that its all set up on? Or might just be that Home is still a bit clunky, probably resetting it all and reinstalling would fix it but I'm not sure its worth the effort TBH.

Is it your Google account that its all set up on?

Yup

Or might just be that Home is still a bit clunky

I'm going with this. Re-installing / resetting makes no difference. I get the options cog for the Chromecast 4k connected to my telly but not for either of the Chromecast audios. Not going to lose any sleep, they're both working well.

I still collect CD's. I had Tidal but preferred CD's, and ripping to FLAC myself. I hear new music on the Radio, if I want to delve deeper I find some free stuff online. Then if I'm convinced I google up the artists best album and order up the CD. If I like that when it arrives I keep going with the back catalogue. I get less pleasure streaming. I like to really get to know music before moving on, streaming seems superficial to me.

I’m a big fan of chromecast but it only supports Spotify bit rate up to 250kbs quality.
For 320(highest) you need a Spotify connect client. Regardless of it being a video or audio chromecast. Yours appears to be over hdmi.

The wimm linked above is a good bet. Or raspberry pi with hat that outputs spdif into your dac rather than a dac hat. They seem to be hard to source lately and will look a bit diy science project.

The other problem is as said before is that it isn’t and seemingly never will be gapless. Which frankly is terrible for an audio streamer. Great for radio though.

It’s definitely nothing to do with error rates. That’s complete nonsense given the tcp error correction and packet replay. It’s actually where streaming is superior to a cd transport.

It’s definitely nothing to do with error rates. That’s complete nonsense given the tcp error correction and packet replay. It’s actually where streaming is superior to a cd transport.

This video, by an actual audio engineer, explains where the errors in streaming data come from. It's not in the data but rather than timing. The engineer in the video explains that packet data contains no timing information. I have to take his word for that since I'm not a designer of audio equipment and he is.

There's some fascinating behaviours at play when you compare streaming, CD and vinyl listening, particularly among people who aren't legacy vinyl listeners (ie have come to it since the 90s, say).

Records are reserved for special listening when I’m on my own. I was a bit surprised, going back to the start of this thread, that CD’s should be revered in the same way.

A lot of this, for example.

I still collect CD’s. I had Tidal but preferred CD’s, and ripping to FLAC myself. I hear new music on the Radio, if I want to delve deeper I find some free stuff online. Then if I’m convinced I google up the artists best album and order up the CD. If I like that when it arrives I keep going with the back catalogue. I get less pleasure streaming. I like to really get to know music before moving on, streaming seems superficial to me.

...and very much this. Personally I have a gut feeling that if I don't have the CD I don't really 'have' the music; and the reality of streaming services is that it's possible your favourite music could disappear overnight from online sources, or simply never appear on them (although it's less common than it used to be). Having the CD and ripping it means your music is all under your own roof at whatever quality you want!

Having the CD and ripping it means your music is all under your own roof at whatever quality you want!

I'm not sure I get the point of buying the CD only to then rip it rather than just buying a download veresion from say Qobuz or Tidal? I've heard that there is a difference to be heard between different 'bit perfect' copies of an album ripped by different software (for example DBAmp, which is the product I used to rip 600 CDs at the end of 2020 when I built my new system), but I've not heard that demonstrated and if nothing else, the environmental impact of buying the CD compared to download persduades me that download is an easy choice.

The one other thing I have mentioned several times here in this thread but which no one has picked up on is the value that using Roon brings to the whole experience of music listening. It really is an amazing interface and adds so much value when accessing content from either a NAS drive or streaming service.

and the reality of streaming services is that it’s possible your favourite music could disappear overnight from online sources

If that happens you could then go and buy the CD.

This video, by an actual audio engineer, explains where the errors in streaming data come from.

That doesn't really explain a lot. He says that when decoding a bit stream your power draw goes up, which causes more noise in your PSU which then can be heard in your music. Even if that's true it would rather depend on what's doing decoding and where. In the OP's case both bit streams - CD and download - are going through the same DAC which is doing the same work, I think? And in my case, comparing my CD player and my Echo Link, they are both doing the same work all the time which is precisely what they are designed to do. So I am not exactly sure we have learned a lot from that vid.

I'm not disputing that there could be a difference between different rippers or different digital sources, but I'm not sure that video explains how it's possible.

I have a feeling though that the biggest variable in the streaming/ripping debate is what the source material actually is. The stuff you are streaming may not be from the CD, it could be from a different digital copy. And most of my new music is streaming in Ultra HD which suggests that is likely to be the case.

That doesn’t really explain a lot.

Bless Paul, I think he's a really lovely bloke and he's built a very successful audio company (so he clearly does know at least something about electronic engineering as applied to audio equipment) but yes, his videos do tend to be a little superficial!

Most people don't care why something sounds different/better they just appreciate the difference and then choose to enjoy A versus B. The only time this becomes a problem is when (usually obstinate) engineering types who A) don't really care about music, B) have never listened to the differecnes and C) do not fully understand the nuances and intricacies of audio equipment design, insist that because music is just zeros and ones or because there is nothing that can be measured and changing, it cannot possibly sound different or make any difference. Even this isn't really the problem; the real problem is that they deliver that scathing refrain in a way that implies (usually it's not even implied but quite direcet) that you're an idiot for thinking so.

BTW I'm not even remotely suggesting that this is you Molgrips or indeed anyone on this thread.

A downloaded copy of the same album sounds better (on my sytem, to my ears) than a streamed one in every instance that I have tested it. I don't care why so much as I care that buying the media A) gives me more enjoyment and B) give the artist an income.

the environmental impact of buying the CD compared to download persduades me that download is an easy choice.

Really? Interesting question, I had a retort but thinking about it the issue may not be as clear. What I do know is having a physical copy is worth more to me.

As you say though, different releases may have different mastering so it's not always going to be the same final product (I have at least one album with completely different mixes of the tracks on Spotify than the CD).

Really? Interesting question, I had a retort but thinking about it the issue may not be as clear.

To be fair, I meant more the environmental impact on my (small) house rather than the planet as a whole 😂 my living room is only 3.8m by 3.6m and where to store what would now be around 1000 albums would be a real challenge. How to navigate them is also tricky, as in experiencing the flow of music.

Oddly, I always thought my listening would end up becoming a little fickle if I moved to ripped/download/streaming as I thought it would encourage flitting from one track to next. Actually I still find myself listening to a complete album maybe 90% of the time.

I had an LG V20 phone a couple of years ago with a Quad-dac, jack out of that was way better sound than Samsungs or iPhones.

It may well have been, it’s an analogue signal from the 3.5 Jack, so will need a DAC if a better quality signal is required. If it’s an iPhone with a Lightning port, the output is digital, but there’s a DAC built into the Lightning plug, so if using wired headphones, which I tend to do most of the time, the signal is decoded directly at the output source. Fortunately, both my headphones and my earphones have replaceable cables, and there are 3.5mm > Lightning and MMCX > Lightning cables available which don’t cost an arm and a leg, so I get full-fat Lossless instead of an adulterated Bluetooth signal.

I was looking at a review of some headphones by a company who make studio microphones, and they’re completely analogue, no BT, extra controls, etc, but it they dohave two 3.5mm sockets, so you can choose which side to have the cable exit from. Apparently, they’re very high quality sound, very neutral without excessive bass, and only £145, so I’ll be looking into getting a set at some point.

Been trying to find the review for anyone interested, but it seems to have disappeared, however I’ve still got the manufacturer site open, so here’s the link:

https://rode.com/en/headphones/over-ear/nth-100

They’re £149.00 online. I like the idea of headphones that deliver great sound, and don’t require anything other than a signal source to work, or batteries that need charging. Or cost nearly twice as much.

Even this isn’t really the problem; the real problem is that they deliver that scathing refrain in a way that implies (usually it’s not even implied but quite direcet) that you’re an idiot for thinking so.

Oh I know. People banging on about these things as if it's important. Don't look for ultimate fidelity, listen to what you like. Still, that's geeks for you. They keep the whole business going 🙂