[Closed] I don't understand why Moyes was sacked!

I'm glad another thread has started on this

It would be assumed that he had been speaking to them already and that it had not helped.

In reality it's more like a bad company that reacts with a knee jerk reaction.

Other scenarios include he's fallen out with the talent who are too comfy and can't be sacked (or sold as they are too old to be worth out)
It was only meant to be temporary to pave the way for a bigger name to arrive without having said bigger name taking the 1st season after AF hit that was inevitable.

You're looking for logic and rational reasoning. You fool!

This is Premiership football. The only place you're going to find less rational, in fact completely unfathomable, decision making taking place is here…

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You know there are many many teams in many leagues to discuss. Why Man U?

it's fairly straightforward

team wins games, manager stays around
team loses games, manager gets the sack

what's that you say? there's numerous random factors out of the manager's control involved in team sports? away with your logic and reason!

Several of the engineering department's designers have been making a lot of mistakes over the last few months. The result: parts having to be sent back to suppliers to be re-machined, production schedule up the wall with weekend working needed to maintain delivery commitments. Quality falls off. Delivery dates missed. Penalty clauses invoked at massive cost to company. Company reputation is damaged in the marketplace.

What does the MD do? Sack the engineering manager? No. Speak to the manager. Ask him in the first instance to speak to the guys involved. If no improvement is seen and the company suffers further losses due to incompetence, fire those guys in the office who are the root of the problem.

So, in this scenario, the engineering department was, until recently, a world leader in its field, with a global reputation for quality and performance. Following the appointment of a new engineering manager, the quality problems described above started. After many, many months where, after having the conversations with the manager, the problems continue, perhaps even get worse then yes, I'd be looking at the manager and considering whether they were the right appointment.

Regardless of whether they are to "blame" for the problems emerging, they are responsible for resolving the situation, and if they have failed to do so, and can't present a convincing case that they are going to be able to then I reckon the compromise agreement will be drafted and we'll be looking to recruit a manager who can.

EDIT:

Speak to the manager. Ask him in the first instance to speak to the guys involved.

If the manager of the team isn't already aware of the problem, and hasn't spoken to the team about it without a direct instruction from someone higher up to do so, then I'd certainly consider that they aren't an effective manager.

In case you hadn't noticed:
[url= http://www.thesackrace.com/news/28th-august-2012/20122013-managerial-casualties ]It's what they do[/url].

Biggest difference is the engineers in your above scenerio are actually the coaches and not the players. The players are the machines worth £millions and have attitudes and massive egos. When they decide not to work together because they don't like the boss it easier to bow down to the egos.

In the context of Premier league football I actually think Manchester Utd have been very patient with Moyes.

There's no value whatsoever in comparing the management of an engineering company to a football club though

Better analogy would be an NHS dept of heart surgeons being 'line managed' by an someone with a BSc in business studies. You can put that relationship into any structure you like, but it can't change where the authority lies.

In the context of Premier league football I actually think Manchester Utd have been very patient with Moyes.

When someoen takes over and soes better than he did and playing better football it also makes you think was he really any good anyway or is he a limited manager

His inability to inspire or play in anyway shape or form attacking football meant more and more were leaning towards the later

Secondly derek would you let said poor manager in your engineering scenario close the factory, invest heavily in new machinery and decide what the next stuff was you were going to make?

If Man U is paying that kind of money for a new/top manager then they want instant result because they are not paying to educate the new manager.

[b] The new manager must make it work or fit in instantly - not tomorrow but yesterday. [/b]
[u][b]
Nobody is paying you to learn, they are paying you to deliver instant result at that level.[/b][/u]

I don't understand why Moyes was sacked

Clearly the media has not been providing enough coverage or analysis of this story then...

franksinatra - Member

I don't understand why Moyes was sacked

Clearly the media has not been providing enough coverage or analysis of this story then...

You don't need media to show that he is out of his depth in this situation. Doesn't matter who or how nice you are and if you cannot deliver result you get the sack. No pussy footing at this level.

Hmmm....

[IMG] [/IMG]

Teetosugars - Member

Hmmm....

Sony Walkman then ... now iPhone/iPad/iNoLife/Me me me ...

Time changed and we have short attention span nowadays.

[b]We don't have apprentice for 26 years, we have 26 mins apprentice.[/b]

I think everyone knows that ^^^ isn't a valid comparison

It's not even down to that FFS, the bloke inherited an exciting side that hadn't finished outside the top couple of places for a decade... he then took them to 7th... Despite spending £70m.

Teetosugars - when Fergie took over Man U had not won the title for 20 years or so. Moyes took over at the League Championship winning club. Not the same.

Moyes did not do himself any favours tbh, he should have kept or at leats integrated with Fergies back room staff for at least one season till he got know the players.

I think Arsenal are the only Premiership club who have actually stuck with their manager through bad times. Hasn't Wenger now got more time with them than the rest of the Premiership managers put together? Still hasn't won much though has he?

surroundedbyhills - Member

Moyes did not do himself any favours tbh, he should have kept or at leats integrated with Fergies back room staff for at least one season till he got know the players.

^^^ This.

This actually show that he lacks the skills needed to work.

thepurist - Member
Still hasn't won much though has he?

As long as the return on investment is good for the stakeholders why bother sticking their heads out i.e. why should the stakeholders need to risk it. Stay with him. Let it be.

I think Alan Pardew is in the top 3 of longest serving managers now, when a Newcastle manager is up there then there is something wrong with the game.

What it's really proved is how much Man U fans whinge, it's going to be worse than the Liverpool lot for the next 20 years.

mikewsmith - Member

I think Alan Pardew is in the top 3 of longest serving managers now, [b][u]when a Newcastle manager is up there then there is something wrong with the game.[/u][/b]

😆 Yes, absolutely. But so long as the cash flow is healthy why rock the boat? This is a business. Not a game. 😆

Moyes did not do himself any favours tbh, he should have kept or at leats integrated with Fergies back room staff for at least one season till he got know the players.

That was his first error here - trusting a self-serving reptile like Giggs to bridge the gap to the senior pros. Second, you'd have to say his own people didn't make the right impact with the squad. No one really knows what happens in training but it seems clear that no one at Utd was really convinced by Round, Lumsden and Neville.

This is a business. Not a game

I'm sure plenty of fans would like to see some effort in the FA cup but that means nothing financially - failure to get into Europe costs - a pretty simple target to grasp

GL - what's craven about keeping on succesful managers? I have taken over business' which have been failing and cleared out, I have also taken over business' which were either relatively succesful or genuinely performing well and in those cases I kept the majority of the managers. Football is a crap business model and ManU shoudl have consulted and approved of Moyes decisions beforehand. Too much ego and complete lack of professionalism. The bit that pisses me off is that these managers walk away with massive payoffs, for failing!

Sure, but you're talking about being a business owner. It's more like coming in as a new manager with a mandate and there's this guy already in place running the show - there's obv a conflict there. It's pretty normal in football for senior managers to bring in their own people, with a nod to the traditions of the club by retaining one or two.

It goes both ways, as well. If Phelan is used to being in charge on the training ground then he's not going to be happy laying out cones for Moyes. I read that Moyes did ask the dutch guy to stay, but he didn't want to - took the step up into management with predictable results.

Meh, What do I know, I hate Wendyball, and all it stands for, I just saw that pic, and thought it was quite telling..

Guess I was wrong.

Hey ho..

If Moyes and Ferguson had been managers of different teams at the same time... it would have been.

However that's like saying the English should win at cricket because in Bothams days they did... or same with Rugby and Will Carling...

This is a completely different time in history. What happened 25+ years ago has no bearing on what happened 12 months ago

not a manu nor mancity fan me but here's my take

moyes didn't do himself any favours letting phelan go etc

Ferguson didn't help staying for 1 or 2 seasons longer than he should have
Ferguson/board/david Gill should have planned and acted on replacement of giggs/ferdinand/scholes/vidic as well as all the other players who aren't making the grade (and what of the youth policy? not really delivered..)

board should have helped with investment and taken more interest in manager replacement
board shouldn't have let the chief exec (David Gill) go at the same time as ferguson
players should have been a lot more professional

any one of those failures could have been managed if they were individual issues but it's the combination of all of the above that have scuppered moyes

I think Alan Pardew is in the top 3 of longest serving managers now, when a Newcastle manager is up there then there is something wrong with the game.

He is second, Allardyce is third and Rodgers is next on the list.

That's a telling stat that will be made worse when Wenger goes after they lose the FA cup final to Hull.