[Closed] I did a Speed Awareness Course yesterday

I did one ages back,  (35 on a radar gun in a 30 dual carriageway) ..and I was genuinely astonished how most folks know next to nothing about the Highway code, or  signs or traffic signs...

Yeah but don't dare interfere with folk's God given right to drive. It's their right, don't you know? 🙂

I, for one, are in favour or some sort of regular/ongoing checks. I don't drive many miles but do have an interest in driving (not necessarily driving quickly), so undertook advanced driving training myself. Just makes sense and I find it genuinely helpful.

Yep, they're good and should be compulsary every 10 years [or similar] - along with doing a CBT before learning to drive a car.

I found mine very interesting to be honest and yes, the stopping distance thing surprised me a lot.

It was nicely unpatronising for the large part as well and agree, it is the Surrey of thing that I thing should be mandatory every few years.

<BLEAT> ANOTHER TAX ON DRIVERS!!@!@!@@! </BLEAT>

I think it's a good idea TBH. Everybody should be able to drive to the standard required of a test - no harm in checking/ refreshing every so often.

Did 1 a few yrs ago.

Completely agree that there should be an element of this either in the test itself or as part of regular testing.

Was very informative.

I wonder if rather than making them mandatory, you could attach a discount to insurance to voluntarily completion of one to encourage people to do so.

I wonder if rather than making them mandatory, you could attach a discount to insurance to voluntarily completion of one to encourage people to do so.

Is a good idea, but the insurance companies will, understandably, only do this if there's data to support that drivers who've been on one are at a lower risk of being involved in an accident. Intuitively they should be, but they'd need hard data.

Well, if the hard data can’t be found, what’s the point of them?

...is a very good point, fair enough.

heh when i did mine i was convinced it was literally a time-wasting deterant and i'd be on my phone all afternoon. Was quite interesting and i actually learned some stuff.

(won't admit it was what the "National Speed Limit" sign meant 😳 *)

Did chuckle when they went round everyone and asked then why they were over the limit. Err my brothers friends dog was at the vet and i had to get his wifes sisters kid from karate and i was late and the signage was not clear and i was accelerating to get up a hill etc

"What caused you to be here?"

Me: was pressing my pedal too hard for the given senario 🙁

One more senior lady was convinced she was right and they were wrong and she was not for changing.

Might have enjoyed it a little bit,

But in answer to your question, possibly

*in my defence i learned to drive in Gibraltar.
*In Addition to that, it was a momentary lapse of concentation on a main road. wasn't tearing up a residental area or anything

I did one years ago. Went in expecting not to learn much, and yet I think it genuinely changed the way I drive. Mainly just small things, but all small things that I'd never put much thought into, or wasn't aware of previously, and are now normal considerations every time I sit behind the wheel.

I think that's a bloomin marvellous idea, along with making everyone do a motorcycle CBT.

Yeah, I did one last month. Less tedious than I expected - amazing how many people on it didn't know their speed limits though.

I did one a few years ago.

It was OK, I did learn what a "dual carriageway" actually is.

The instructor was very anti cyclist, she made some pretty stupid remarks, the rest of the group lapped it up. Didn't make much of a fuss as I am sure she would of kicked me out.

Did one probably 12 or 14 years ago and I still bear it in mind when I drive now.

I'm sure they are useful, given driving standards out there.

They should be mandatory.

The instructor was very anti cyclist, she made some pretty stupid remarks, the rest of the group lapped it up. Didn’t make much of a fuss as I am sure she would of kicked me out.

You should report this (with evidence) after you've 'passed'. It's plain wrong.

Agree with the OP.. did mine in the past year... found it useful and gained an understanding more than I thought I would.
Think it too should be a 10 year thing!

DrP

What would be better is re doing a test every 10 years.

speed limits dont make safe drivers, they just help to minimise the impact of poor driving.

You sit it all the time, people who sit either at the speed limit, or 10 mph below it, but are quite clearly paying no attention to whats going on around.

I did one a few years back and found it useful. Hopefully never again though. My error was believing I was in a 40, but it was a 30 🤦

There has to be a move to retesting, these could form part of it. My lad learned to drive last year, taking him out to practice identified a few of my own bad habits.

Any countries have regular retests do we know, from our international members? Do they work?

IMO, there should be mandatory training and testing every 10 years.

Random thought.....If speeding (the actual driving faster bit as well as the lack of observance that gets you caught bit) increases your statistical likelihood of being involved in or causing incidents, does living or working near a speed awareness course venue increase your insurance premium? A honeypot location that draws in Britain's least impressive drivers.

To the OP - yes, when put like that it's a no brainer isn't it. The number of refresher courses I have to go on for stuff at work but my car is easily the device I operate that has the biggest likelihood to generate mass carnage.

You should report this (with evidence)

What possible evidence could I have? It would be my word against hers.

Did one a few years back.
Agreed the course was good and it definitely changed the way I drive.

Also there was a quite hilarious cross section of society and attitudes on the course along with me which was worth attending for on its own.
The best one was a very vocal gammon type guy who kept adding '...and then you're buggered' to the end of his sentences.

The instructor kept correcting him with more PC language to use and by the end of the course many people (me & instructor both included) could hardly stop themselves laughing out loud at the gammon guy. No clue at all.

OP - you didn't tell us why you were there, was it because you weren't aware of speed limits etc or were speeding on purpose?

If it was the latter, what's the point of a refresh, as you already knew the law but were breaking it on purpose. If it was the former, then I've no problem with you voluntarily handing in your licence and taking your test 'again'.

Discuss.

I wonder if rather than making them mandatory, you could attach a discount to insurance to voluntarily completion of one to encourage people to do so.

Isn't this what taking advanced driving courses already achieve?

What possible evidence could I have? It would be my word against hers.

What you heard. You might not be the only person who has made a complaint.

OP – you didn’t tell us why you were there, was it because you weren’t aware of speed limits etc or were speeding on purpose?

If it was the latter, what’s the point of a refresh, as you already knew the law but were breaking it on purpose. If it was the former, then I’ve no problem with you voluntarily handing in your licence and taking your test ‘again’.

Discuss.

Crap baiting skills. Discuss.

I know that it's a good idea to wash my hands before handling food. But I've got to confess I don't always bother even though I know I should. If I got to spend an hour with a microbiologist explaining exactly why it's a good idea and the consequences with photos of petri dishes and unwell bowels, there is a good chance my laissez-faire attitude to hand hygiene might be given a reboot. See also every machine safety refresher training course on the planet.

OP – you didn’t tell us why you were there, was it because you weren’t aware of speed limits etc or were speeding on purpose?

If it was the latter, what’s the point of a refresh, as you already knew the law but were breaking it on purpose. If it was the former, then I’ve no problem with you voluntarily handing in your licence and taking your test ‘again’.

Well, at least it took 28 posts before the sanctimonious crowd joined in.

I was there because I was caught, fair and square, doing 44 in a 40. I was doing 44 in a 40 because I hadn't noticed the limit change from 60. I hadn't noticed it change because I'm human, and make mistakes.

Mine took 3hrs because we had a cyclist hating truck driver who just wouldn't let it lie. Arguing with the course leader while the rest of us sat with our head in our hands. I could have made it worse of course by standing up for cyclist but I'd lost the will to live by that point

What would be better is re doing a test every 10 years.

My daughter recently passed her test. She wasn't taught to drive safely or even particularly competently - she was taught purely how to pass the driving test. Being retested regularly wouldn't stop people from reverting to their bad habits once they are away from the test centre.

I did one a few years ago (34mph before I'd actually exited the 30 zone)

I actually found it quite interesting but it shocked me how many people were in there for their 3rd or 4th time and there were certainly a few there who were completely disinterested or convinced it was all a gigantic infringement on their god-given right to drive.

Anyway, it got me thinking – it’s pretty mad, really, that they’re not something that everyone has to do at, I dunno, ten-year intervals or something, to keep their license. Most professions that involve the use of complicated machinery or techniques in a hazardous environment need some sort of recertification, why not driving a vehicle on the road?

Oh very much this - in no other area of life is it acceptable to pass a test to operate heavy machinery and then do literally no further training whatsoever over the next 50+ years. Imagine if you got on a plane and the pilot said "yeah, I passed in the little training school Cessna 30 years ago..." and then had no further training other than just picking it up as you go on an A380... 😲

That's what happens on the road. It's insane that you can pass in a 1.2L Nissan Micra and then you can go out and buy a 3L twin turbo V8 the next day!

FMT600 is the form that tells you what military vehicles you are allowed to drive. It's surprising what it tells you compared to a normal driving test.
Eg parading the vehicle (checking lights, fluids etc) where the fluids go and how to tow, change wheels etc.
Go for northern Europe and you need to know road signs and how laws differ.

There's no way they'll be made mandatory, yes it would create a little industry, but what's the punishment for not doing it, or staying awake, you can't force people to learn and understand unfortunately.

It's always good to know information that helps improve you, but even the braking distances examples are all put in front of you with barely half the variables that can affect them, you start sticking error bars on those distances with certain scenarios and it can look a lot worse, and those error bars, such as braking performance and vehicle condition are a one off check annually for most.

If it was the latter, what’s the point of a refresh, as you already knew the law but were breaking it on purpose.

Very little of the speed awareness course I attended could be described as a refresh. It was a much more thought provoking and down to earth conversation about a whole variety of things. It's designed to positively challenge your perspective. Which I think is why many people take something away from it.

I actually found it quite interesting but it shocked me how many people were in there for their 3rd or 4th time

Full disclosure - yesterday's was my second, previous one was nine years ago. Maybe that goes some way to support the "refresher every ten years might be a good idea" thing, I dunno.

Agree that it should be something everyone does after a few years. I did one four years ago after being caught doing 57 in a 50, was gunning it out of a sliproad to make a gap. I suddenly felt much happier when I heard some of the 'stories' from others about why they were there. A proper cross-section of society and intelligences. My favourite bit was when one young lad got called out after saying all cyclists should be banned off the road, turns out over half the room, including one of the instructors, was a regular cyclist, mainly commuters. He threw a proper hissy fit and was kicked off the course, told he now had to pay the fine and take points plus losing his course fee.

I wonder if rather than making them mandatory, you could attach a discount to insurance to voluntarily completion of one to encourage people to do so.

Is a good idea, but the insurance companies will, understandably, only do this if there’s data to support that drivers who’ve been on one are at a lower risk of being involved in an accident. Intuitively they should be, but they’d need hard data.

When I phoned up my insurers to tell them of a change in circumstances (new job hence higher mileage due to commuting) they gave me a big discount purely based on the fact I had passed my Class 2 HGV and had a valid DCPC card. Their reasoning when asked was that the DCPC meant my knowledge was much more up to date than others and that HGV drivers tend to rarely have a crash in their cars as they're used to the larger size and spotting hazards more often. So a national scheme of refresher training may well get you a discount, it does for new drivers doing Pass Plus so it's not beyond the realms of setting up an equivalent for drivers of 5+ years experience.

Slight hijack, I was driving through a road I've not driven before at the weekend, pavement, normal width, lined with houses and marked as a 40, I still can't work out why it wasn't a 30.

As for people not knowing limits all the people round here drive at 50 on a national speed limit road, then stay at 50 when a 40 zone starts.

I did one, it made me a better driver. But the whole discussion about retraining and retesting needs to be had.

My mother is 83, passed her test in the 1970's and hasn't driven a car for over 20 years, yet she has just renewed her licence again 'just in case' all she had to do to get a new licence was to fill in a medical declaration. She has never been done for speeding, or had an accident (mainly because she never drove more that a couple of miles in any case) so has never had any more training since the day she passed.

But if she wanted to, she could get in a car tomorrow and they have changed a lot in the past 20 years, and drive herself anywhere perfectly legally. Surely this can't be right. The very thought of it is enough to give me nightmares.

I wonder if rather than making them mandatory, you could attach a discount to insurance to voluntarily completion of one to encourage people to do so.

Isn’t this what taking advanced driving courses already achieve?

Yes and no. https://www.cornmarketinsurance.co.uk/valued-groups/iam-roadsmart-insurance/ - for IAM members, but they no longer price-match and won't cover my current car anyway as too high risk. I've never found any insurer offering a discount/better rate when I've mentioned I'm an IAM member, so perhaps back to a previous point here that additional training =/= a safer driver.

It’s insane that you can pass in a 1.2L Nissan Micra and then you can go out and buy a 3L twin turbo V8 the next day!

lets be honest, Footballers and Saudi Princes aside, the insurance companies are doing a pretty good job at policing this.

My dad was part of the group that came up with them in the first place. A couple of police forces (Essex and Hertfordshire, I think) spotted there seemed to be a group of drivers who were done for speeding, but only a bit, who didn't seem to understand why it was a problem and why they'd been caught, but responded well to roadside police officers giving them a bit an education.

When they first tried the scheme, over two years the rate of re-offendending among those who had taken a course dropped so much that they proposed it was rolled out nationally to the then Minister for Transport (I can't remember who it was then, this was 25-30 years ago). It then took years to get it through, even though it was so obviously effective.

I think about five years later the same group also proposed that it became an ongoing part of the driving licence system - as IHN said, standard industrial practice for remaining qualified to use any other piece of dangerous machinery - and were flat-out refused, told that it was impossible and un-workable, the motor industry would lobby against it and the public wouldn't support it.

Completely agree with the comments above, everyone should have a mandatory re-test every 10 years.

I was caught, fair and square, doing 44 in a 40

Im surprised, whilst you were obviously over the limit the ACPO did (used to) recommend not prosecuteing for upto 10% +2mph over the limit. Whilst this was totally discretionary it did seem to be fairly common, both your experience and crazy-legs suggest otherwise.

As for having to re-certify every 5/10 years i'd be all for it.
Even some medical issues are basically self declaring, you'd have thought something even as basic as an eyesite test/declaration that you still meet minimum standards would be a good idea.

We did do enhanced training years ago because one of the vans was over 3.5 ton so we needed to hold a CPC card to drive it. Whilst everyone resented having to come in on a Saturday to do the training it was a good reminder/refresher.

Oh and

The instructor was very anti cyclist, she made some pretty stupid remarks, the rest of the group lapped it up. Didn’t make much of a fuss as I am sure she would of kicked me out.

I'd have certainly made a complaint after the session. One of the instructors who did our cpc session was very anti-cyclist, however on the basis they couldn't fail me I was able to be quite forthright in suggesting just how wrong they were.. this was the same instructor who told us that our mobile phones have a "secret" battery so even if they are flat we can still make a call...

When I did a speed awareness course I was surprised by the amount of attendees who thought the national speed limit for a single carriageway raod was 50 mph so they left the course knowing they could drive another 10 mph faster completely legally.

I was caught speeding (it was a stitch up with very poor signage, but I couldn't be bothered to challenge it) and I did the course. It didn't change the way I drive as I agreed with everything the instructors said, it could've been me up there. And yes, lots of drivers were very stupid. I did learn a few things about default speed limits though that had changed since I first read the HC.

Insane that it's up to us to refresh our own knowledge of the HC when it changes. Who the hell does that? Even I don't and I'm as sanctimonious as they come!

everyone should have a mandatory re-test every 10 years.

Completely agree with this sentiment, and if it was at the drivers own cost (I know, another tax on the motorist... * yawn*) then it may go a little way to seeing a driving licence as a privilege, rather than a right...

I did one during lockdown 1. Complete waste of time and effort. It was clear the instructor was there to pedal the message and didn’t let facts get in the way. Many delegates on the course we able to describe areas where according to the instructor signage was not compliant with legislation and insisted we all wrong and it couldn’t happen. In some cases more than 1 delegate described the same place.

Completely agree with this sentiment, and if it was at the drivers own cost (I know, another tax on the motorist… * yawn*) then it may go a little way to seeing a driving licence as a privilege, rather than a right…

There needs to be a dramatic shift very quickly.

Much harsher roads policing and sentencing - in fact i'd be in favour of removing jury trials for road crimes and just having it dealt with at magistrate level but with far harsher sentences. Currently it's far too easy to kill someone and be let off with a fine, a few points, a short ban. Bans are difficult to police - you'd have to be quite unlucky to be caught while banned so sentencing for that needs to be immediate. Caught while banned = we will transport you to jail there and then and you'll stay there for 6 months. When you come out, your car will have been crushed.

The daft thing is, this is actually quite easy to police, the tech is all there. There's just no political will to enforce or mandate any of it. Stuff like speed limiters, black boxes, dashcams, smart keys linked to insurance databases, mandatory retests (again, linked to insurance)...

Currently, 5 people a day on average are killed on the roads and very few people bat an eyelid. If that happened on the rail network, the entire thing would be shut down instantly. There would be total, complete reform, court cases. On the roads though? Yeah, whatever, price of freedom.

I managed to get through one a few years ago by sitting there as quietly as possible even though I wanted to kill the argumentative guy who had to challenge everything the instructor said and seemed intent on making the half-day fairly tedious exercise a full day slit-your-wrists to escape hell.

I got caught doing 35 in a 30 after dropping someone at Bristol airport, my fault, was tired and really should have told them to take a taxi, with hindsight it would have been better to take the points and fine rather than sit through listening to "that guy" bleating.

the tiny effect that going faster actually has on arriving sooner,

This is the biggest thing for me. If only people realised how effing pointless it all was - tailgating, trying to go 10mph quicker before the next clog of traffic, trying to get past that lorry before your slip-road in 1/4 mile, overtaking the same cyclist 5 times over before the next red traffic lights.

Some people would still be dicks, obvs, but realising that all the stress of trying to go as fast as possible when you might, at best, save a minute an hour might get a lot of people to chill the **** out. Exactly what re you going to do with that extra minute anyway, even if you do "win" it?

the stopping distance thing surprised me a lot

Yeah me to - the way in which speed is shed when breaking got me. I can't remember the exact numbers but it was something like if 2 cars break to a full stop at the same time, one doing 70 and one 100mph, and the car doing 70 stops just before crashing into something, the car doing 100mph is still doing around 70mph when it hits.

I have been caught twice, many years apart, Both times roads I knew the road / speed limit (and once when I knew where the fixed speed camera was - doh). Sheer inattention, and the courses can go some way to addressing that.

I dodn't learn a lot on the one course I did. The above re stopping speeds was probably it, but as others have said the numbers who didn't seem to understand anything about driving was concerning. Had a couple of anti-cyclists, and one guy who was insistent that pedestrians are not allowed on national speed limit roads. I pointed out to him that my house was on such a road (country lane with no footpath) and did he expect me to call a taxi when my kids wanted to walk the 40 yards into the village to the shop...

EDIT - found this which explains the difference just 5kmph extra can make https://www.science.org.au/curious/technology-future/physics-speeding-cars

It was clear the instructor was there to pedal the message and didn’t let facts get in the way. Many delegates on the course we able to describe areas where according to the instructor signage was not compliant with legislation and insisted we all wrong and it couldn’t happen. In some cases more than 1 delegate described the same place.

It's almost as if the purpose of the course that day was to have "the system" picked holes in rather than enhance the skills of the users. And by finding anomalies the users got to feel vindicated that they were after all awsums.

I drive coaches for a living, so also have DCPC card, i undergo regular driving assessments, and regular training in the classroom too.
Does it make me a better driver?
I’ve had 1 accident in my car in 21 years, when someone else ran a red light and clipped the bumper on my car.
Freak accident, you might think, but the lady admitted to me she had just got the car as she’d rolled the last one.
Some people just can’t drive/or do other things very well.

I recently took my mum to Glasgow in my car, the 2 things she noticed were that i left a safe gap to the vehicle in front, and that I spotted potential hazards a lot earlier than she did.
I’d consider my driving to be average.
I’d be in favour of all drivers having to take periodic training, at their own expense, and of a CBT type scheme which had to be completed before you even get near a public road.
I never fail to learn something from the training courses I attend. (Or, possibly, relearn)

Oh, and, as someone mentioned already, make every car driver do a motorcycle CBT course, the added awareness makes everyone safer imo.

I did one a few years back, didn't really find it all that useful, tbh.

I've done two, one was forever ago and the more recent one was (with no hint of irony) done over Zoom. I'll not bore you with excuses, I could whine that both were blatant money-making honey pots but ultimately it was my own fault. The Zoom call was professional enough, the in-person one was deeply condescending.

My take-away from both was a) I've never seen such a motley bunch of abject morons and b) anyone coming away going "wow that was brilliant, I learned loads!" shouldn't be on the road.

Highlights included:

Absolutely no-one knowing speed limits.

Absolutely no-one knowing what a dual carriageway is.

A woman admitting she'd run over a cyclist, thought this was hilarious and expected a big laugh from the rest of the group.

A young lad who didn't know any road signs at all bar the half dozen he knew were on the test.

A bloke who was shocked to be told that no, his brother couldn't sit the course instead of him. Then kept trying to surreptitiously change places throughout the course.

Me being lectured for being "overconfident" when asked whether we thought we were above average drivers. Dude, look around you, that wasn't a critique of my own ability, rather the 'average driver' is a $%^&ing roaster. If I thought I was a below average driver I'd take lessons or take the bus.

Many, many excuses and attempts at justification as to why they were there. Almost everyone was speeding intentionally, I think I was pretty much the only one going "yeah, I screwed up, sorry."

I am, of course, demonstrably a monster so I'll now go and look for my asbestos pants whilst the STW proletariat mount their leggy equines.

There should be a simulator course with a machine that tracks your eyes to see what you're not looking at on the road.

Yeah, yeah, whatever. Fair cop.

It was, genuinely, a useful couple of hours; we covered the basic of speed limits (i.e. it’s pretty obviously 30, 60 or 70, unless there’s a sign telling you otherwise), honest discussion about why people speed, the significant effect that just a couple of MPH over the limit has on stopping distances and impact speeds, the tiny effect that going faster actually has on arriving sooner, hazard awareness and techniques for dealing with tailgaters, stress, distraction etc etc. All done in a very open, collegiate, non-judgemental, way.

Anyway, it got me thinking – it’s pretty mad, really, that they’re not something that everyone has to do at, I dunno, ten-year intervals or something, to keep their license. Most professions that involve the use of complicated machinery or techniques in a hazardous environment need some sort of recertification, why not driving a vehicle on the road?

Discuss…

Agreed. Refresher every ten years and suspend the licence of everyone involved in an accident until they've sat a refresher course.

Me being lectured for being “overconfident” when asked whether we thought we were above average drivers. Dude, look around you, that wasn’t a critique of my own ability, rather the ‘average driver’ is a $%^&ing roaster. If I thought I was a below average driver I’d take lessons or take the bus.

Don't most people think that everyone else on the road is an idiot?

Some of our buses have ‘eyeguard’
Tracks your eyes to make sure you’re watching the road.
Look in the mirror for 2.5 seconds and it sets off an alarm.
Happened to someone i know, he said the depot called him less than 10 mins later asking him wtf was going on.
The technology is out there, we could stop people using their phones/driving distracted quite easily.

Probably fair to add, the considerable technology fitted to my company vehicles has saved me from several completely false allegations too.

as someone mentioned already, make every car driver do a motorcycle CBT course,

This just isn't practical, sadly. Plenty of people wouldn't be able to ride bikes for all manner of reasons. But it's the single best thing I ever did to improve my driving post-test, I learned way more on the CBT than I ever did on a SAC.

My take-away from both was a) I’ve never seen such a motley bunch of abject morons and b) anyone coming away going “wow that was brilliant, I learned loads!” shouldn’t be on the road.

Actually, yes - I did think it was concerning how many people had no idea about.... driving.

The course instructors stopped asking me questions after the first few after it was obvious I knew all the answers and no-one else in the room did.

Don’t most people think that everyone else on the road is an idiot?

I've no idea. I wish that this were true, but I fear that messrs Dunning and Kruger might want a word.

Don’t most people think that everyone else on the road is an idiot?

I assume they are and try to drive accordingly...

Everybody should be able to drive to the standard required of a test

and

My daughter recently passed her test. She wasn’t taught to drive safely or even particularly competently – she was taught purely how to pass the driving test.

My daughter has her test Friday and I'd tend to agree. I'm sure the instructors know what they are doing and what examiners are looking for, but eg: rigidly dropping to 2nd and 15mph for every roundabout even when clearly clear etc., - I'm not sure it is checking the right things.

I did think it was concerning how many people had no idea about…. driving.

Right?

Sure, we can all learn something, there were bits that were interesting. But "loads"? Just... wow.

There should be a simulator course with a machine that tracks your eyes to see what you’re not looking at on the road.

I'd love for dashcams, front, rear, and pointed at the driver; to be mandatory. Both party's reviewed in the case of an accident (by a human) and blame apportioned based on that.

Could probably then get rid of every other law and rule.

I was there because I was caught, fair and square, doing 44 in a 40. I was doing 44 in a 40 because I hadn’t noticed the limit change from 60.

So really you were doing 44 in a 60. Are you one of those people who also does 20 in a 30 andfrustrates the bejesus out of everyone? (Actually truth nbetold I am one of THOSE people who tends to do just that!)

Re: CBT first

This just isn’t practical, sadly. Plenty of people wouldn’t be able to ride bikes for all manner of reasons.

The number of people with physical disabilites or genuinely poor balance to preclude them riding at the least a twist and go automatic, or even one of those 3 wheeler leaning yamaha things must be small.

Anyone who just refuses based on "but motorbikes are too dangerous" needs to be told "yeah, thats the point. Get the bus"

So really you were doing 44 in a 60. Are you one of those people who also does 20 in a 30 andfrustrates the bejesus out of everyone? (Actually truth nbetold I am one of THOSE people who tends to do just that!)

My worst motoring trait is when i get impatient at times, can mostly back myself off that as i tend to set off earlier on journeys to make up any time i lose on the journey, but i rarely speed, i just find that on most roads, on most days there's always someone doing 30 in a 40, 40 in a 60, etc, etc.

Reality is that speeding isn't a huge issue for most, biggest issue for me where i currently live is that the town has grown, but the roads have been upgraded badly, leaving a lot of drivers unsure what to do, which makes roundabouts 'fun' at times and any filtering/joining roads a gamble.

This just isn’t practical, sadly. Plenty of people wouldn’t be able to ride bikes for all manner of reasons. But it’s the single best thing I ever did to improve my driving post-test, I learned way more on the CBT than I ever did on a SAC.

SOME people wouldn't. Not sure it's "plenty" of people.
Could make it work by having it as an opt-in though with some sort of financial incentive. CBT first = free car test or lower insurance or something. You'd have to iron out the details so it's not a source of inequality to the people who genuinely can't ride a motorbike / scooter but I reckon it's doable.

I passed my test first time and I think a large part of that was cos I'd been riding bicycles since I was a kid, including large amounts of on-road stuff so I knew the hazard perception stuff. My sister (a non-cyclist) took 4 attempts to pass her test.

This is a fortuitous thread as I had my course last Friday.

I am still confused by the fact the instructor was adamant that the vehicle made no difference to the stopping distance. I thought she was very patronising but maybe this was necessary for some of the other attendees and I understand that a simple message is key to it landing in a 2hr course. However, the stopping distance must be variable based on vehicle weight, contact points ie tyre/wheel size, size of brakes, electronic aids etc...

I did one a few years ago, was caught exceeding 30 in a spot where people like to "press on", it was a fair cop and made me realise just how stupid speeding in/around towns really is.

I found it genuinely useful and it calmed my driving and general attitude to driving at speed down a lot.

Never scored a point before or since but I think my likelihood of getting snapped by a camera dipped after I did the awareness course.

I'm now a big fan of using Speed limiters around towns and built up areas, and not treating everything journey a race.

I know I'm not a 'good' driver, just someone with a currently valid licence to drive, which I'd like to keep, and no real desire to be in an accident or kill anyone...

I did one ages back, and part of it was to go out in pairs with an advanced driving instructor and spend 3/4 hr each getting criticised. A very humbling/ salutary experience but also loads of good tips that have stayed with me. Should do another one really.

Don’t most people think that everyone else on the road is an idiot?

I’ve no idea. I wish that this were true, but I fear that messrs Dunning and Kruger might want a word.

That's pretty much the point isn't it. Plenty of people don't understand the basic concepts of driving, but still assume that YOU are the idiot for eg doing 20 mph in a 20 limit. Add in the people who don't care. Add in the drunks and the drugged. Add in the incapable, or the ones with poor eyesight, or the distracted, or the ones who think they have the right to be distracted, the ones on their phones....

From DirectLine : A fifth (21 per cent) of motorists who need glasses or contact lenses always drive without them

So if you add those people to the ones mentioned above then you get to a figure of maybe 1 in 4 or 1in 3 cars on the road really shouldn't be there. The roads would be much nicer place if that happened.

I am still confused by the fact the instructor was adamant that the vehicle made no difference to the stopping distance.

Probably just didn't want to confuse the M3 drivers who think it's okay to do a ton coz of the wonderful German engineering.