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Ban comes in here tomorrow. Next door have been running their sprinkler since 8am non stop.
I like them, but if they so much as touch the hose after today I'm going full Bertie Smalls.
I assume Super Grass is what they are aiming for? 😉
Thanks to Tory cuts, the police don't have enough resources for, well, anything. So who is going to enforce the ban?
Anyway, I'm going to water all of my lawns and the paddock, and fill up both of my swimming pools, before the ban comes in.
I have a mate who is nor ally reasonably intelligent and tried to be eco friendly. He has been watering his allotment loads before the ban comes in....
He has been watering his allotment loads before the ban comes in….
This year we've switched to these hozelock troughs for our fruit and veg. You put a big growbag on top and essentially the water is sealed in so there's no water use except what the plants absorb and transpire. They still get through a LOT of water in this weather, they'll soak through a whole trough in 36h. But at least nothing is wasted either soaking into the ground or evaporating off the surface.
He has been watering his allotment loads before the ban comes in….
I'm confused. Do you think this is a bad thing?
I’m confused. Do you think this is a bad thing?
I'm confused, do you think it's a good thing?
If it wasn't for profligate use of resources we wouldn't need a hosepipe ban.
Deploy the Moles
We have a 'power shower' which runs off a hot water tank & takes about 30 seconds to get up to temperature, so I've started catching the 1st 30 seconds of water in a bucket which we now use to either flush the loo or chuck on the garden.
Looking at how much water wev'e wasted over the past few years is shaming.
I've started flushing my toilet with bottles of Evian before throwing the empty plastic bottles on to a disposable barby I have constantly burning on some nearby open moorland
If it wasn’t for profligate use of resources we wouldn’t need a hosepipe ban.
I'd actually suggest if we didn't have privatised water companies losing millions of litres every day from leaks we'd not need a hosepipe ban.
Some people seem to value a pretty lawn over seemingly anything else in life. Never mind that it will come back even if totally brown, the lawn must be protected!
I’d actually suggest if we didn’t have privatised water companies losing millions of litres every day from leaks we’d not need a hosepipe ban.
Probably, although I dread to think what the cost to consumers/taxpayers would be to actually fix it all.
And I've pondered, seeing as most of the water in the south east comes from underground aquifers, does that mean it's probably ending up back in the same place?
I was thinking of starting a Fred about this....
The river local to me is a mere trickle compared to its normal flow. The green fields are yellow.
Despite that there are folks watering their lawns (Sisyphos?) and worrying about having a nice clean car.... FFS.
Allotments are fair enough. Your geraniums less so.
It's crazy.
We all know who's fault it is...
He has been watering his allotment loads before the ban comes in….
south east comes from underground aquifers, does that mean it’s probably ending up back in the same place?
No.
Those are replenished when it rains. They take years to fill and if we keep using them then they will never refill.
If it wasn’t for profligate use of resources we wouldn’t need a hosepipe ban.
Have we really ended up at a place whereby using water to grow your own food on an allotment is now considered "profligate"?
’ve started catching the 1st 30 seconds of water in a bucket which we now use to either flush the loo or chuck on the garden.
Looking at how much water wev’e wasted over the past few years is shaming.
A mate's mum is from Africa, she's been doing this her whole life. It seemed odd in 1980's Yorkshire - British people had very little concept of water being a scarce resource. It's different these days!
power shower’ which runs off a hot water tank & takes about 30 seconds to get up to temperature,
Harden up and have a cold shower.
It's good for your soul, immune system and the environment.
I’d actually suggest if we didn’t have privatised water companies losing millions of litres every day from leaks we’d not need a hosepipe ban.
I agree with the anti-capitalist sentiment completely, but we've had one of the driest years on record, never mind a dry summer. It's been bone-dry with only a few days of rain down here in south Wales since spring.
Many moons ago I worked with a chap who was absolutely obsessed with his mid spec BMW 3 series.
Cleaned the wheels with a tooth brush, tried (and failed) to buy an M badge – “Is it a replacement badge for an M series sir?… oh I see, you want to add the badge to a car that isn’t M series sir?… sorry sir, the badges are not for sale, sir” – that sort of dick head.
Anyway, come the hosepipe ban 20 odd years ago he got pinged for doing his daily wash. So he took to hosing the car down whilst it, and he, were inside a closed single garage. The knob.
I agree with the anti-capitalist sentiment completely, but we’ve had one of the driest years on record, never mind a dry summer. It’s been bone-dry with only a few days of rain down here in south Wales since spring.
Agreed. You can moan about lack of investment all you like, but it just hasn't rained. Plus around where I am on the Sussex coast vast amounts of new homes are going up, but think I read it's 20 years since the last new reservoir was built in the UK.
I agree with the anti-capitalist sentiment completely, but we’ve had one of the driest years on record, never mind a dry summer. It’s been bone-dry with only a few days of rain down here in south Wales since spring.
Fear not, we’re going to BPW in a few weeks. Guaranteed a deluge while we’re there.
I’m confused, do you think it’s a good thing?
If it wasn’t for profligate use of resources we wouldn’t need a hosepipe ban.
Wow, not often that vegetables are viewed as excessive consumption.
Where exactly do you think food comes from?
Hint: I'm not looking for the name of a supermarket here.
the ground in the SE is so dry subsidence is a real problem.. its splitting the water mains everywhere.
if everyone had watered their lawns, the ground wouldnt be so dry and the water mains wouldnt split.
obvz
He has been watering his allotment loads before the ban comes in
Is this to do with the Israel/ Palestine cease fire?
think I read it’s 20 years since the last new reservoir was built in the UK
Near us, SE water bought a load of land near Canterbury to turn into a reservoir in the 70s. Only now are they thinking of starting to action it.
Recently the only water supply to the isle of Sheppey burst and we’ve had several local villages with restricted supplies due to leaks. While this was going on, before a pipe ban was mooted, SE water sent letters asking users to restrict use
I’d actually suggest if we didn’t have privatised water companies losing millions of litres every day from leaks we’d not need a hosepipe ban.
If it helps we have a (kind of) nationalised Scottish Water - and still have water shortages this year. In bloody Scotland.
Perhaps if the Environment Agency hadn't prevented Thames Water from building a new reservoir the southeast would be slightly less short of water.
""Thames Water did propose a reservoir at Abingdon, Oxfordshire, in 2006, plans for which were opposed by the Environment Agency on the grounds that it was not needed. It has remained on hold ever since. Proposals for a national water grid have similarly come to nothing. In 2006, the Environment Agency scotched the idea, saying it would cost £15 billion to build a pipeline capable of bringing 1,100 megalitres a day from the North Pennines to London, and that building reservoirs would be more cost-effective."
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/water-woes-whos-to-blame-for-the-shortages
This one I presume. Latest start date 2025 if they can get the go ahead.
https://www.cpreoxon.org.uk/news/abingdon-reservoir-act-now/
I went past a small new build development today. I could hear the ticking sprinkler going, I think the builder is actually watering the weeds beyond the plot to help it screen a bit of no man's land to the existing houses as much as the lawn, as two weeks I had to make a timed move to get through without getting soaked.
The southeast water site says one exemption is 28 days from the installation of a new lawn, I know it was lawn two weeks ago so if I'm still working there in two weeks I'll see if its still going!
Chance of a shower here next week so I've just diverted the main house downpipe onto the garage roof as that will go to the water butts, normally I don't bother as they just overflow after an hour of rain otherwise.
Ban with South East Water does not cover watering new lawns or the filling of fetid sex ponds - fill your boots
The elephant in the room is water leakage. I worked in the water industry 1997-2001 and the amount of leakage was frankly ridiculous. Things haven't improved that much since then.
Also why do we use treated drinking water to wash cars, water veg beds, flush the toilet? It's sheer madness and always has been !!
I hosepiped my allotment last night via the river that runs at the bottom of it, using a drill-powered water pump.
Am I pure evil?
The rest of the allotment water via baths dotted around the site connected to the mains. There has always been a hosepipe ban at our allotments.
To offset it, in our house we've adopted the 'if it's yellow, let it mellow' approach to the lavvy.
Its really really hard to build new reservoirs. They have been trying to get the Havant Thicket site built for years and years and its had planning objection after objection. So yes the water companies could do hugely better its not 100% there fault.
Oldnpastit up there ^^
Only 2 swimming pools? Hope they're both 50 mtr; if not, you're letting down the STW subscribers team!
As for watering allotments, are they in any way exempt from hosepipe bans?
If not, why not?
How do they differ from a veg patch at the end of a garden.
I think the regulator will now become much more focussed on water companies' performance in managing and reducing leaks.
Kinda used to conserving water without thinking too hard about it. The wife grew up in the Bahamas on a little island with no water supply at all. The island still does not have it. When you build you house you make sure you have enough roof area to capture rain to fill the cistern under the house. And then use it very very sparingly.
Old friend of ours there had a filter bed for grey water so he could water the veg garden with it. It’s old school but we really could do with returning to some of those measures because they still work and work well.
I’m confused. Do you think this is a bad thing?
It's like panic buying. There's hardly any left, let's get as much as we can before it runs out!
As for his veggies - is he using up more or less water per courgette than the local farmers? I honestly don't know.
Also why do we use treated drinking water to wash cars, water veg beds, flush the toilet?
Because having two water pipe networks servicing everyone's house is too expensive?
I like the mandatory water storage idea though, but again, it's a big project to retrofit that. With the garden refurb, we've created a spot in which we can stick three or for 200l butts which I reckon we'd easily fill in a winter. Just as well because we now have loads of big perennials to water!
I think the regulator will now become much more focussed on water companies’ performance in managing and reducing leaks.
OFWAT are toothless like all regulators. Leakage in water distribution systems has been a huge problem for 40+ years so don't expect anything to change 'cos we've had 2 heatwaves this year.
Because having two water pipe networks servicing everyone’s house is too expensive?
As a society we should be investing in grey water recycling for these tasks but we don't. Many people think that we have unlimited free water falling out of the sky 'cos we live on a wet, windy rock in the NE Atlantic. Sadly it's not that simple. We can all do our part though
Back from my holidays and had 4 loads of washing. The waste water was all collected and poured over our wilted flowers.
Probably 150 l of water.
Where exactly do you think food comes from?
The fridge.
Magic thing, I've never quite understood how it fills itself back up again.
Anyway thanks for reminding me shouldn't be washing the car 🙂
I hosepiped my allotment last night via the river that runs at the bottom of it, using a drill-powered water pump.
As long as you have the necessary abstraction licence from the Environment Agency, you have my blessing. 🙂
Wow, not often that vegetables are viewed as excessive consumption.
Where exactly do you think food comes from?
Hint: I’m not looking for the name of a supermarket here.
Alright smartarse,
The difference is, trying to overwater them to compensate for a future ban is:
a) pointless, they can only absorb so much, the rest will just soak into the ground beyond their roots.
b) pointless, the ban doesn't cover veg growing only ornamental flowers
Leakage numbers in the late 90s were in the order of 10-25% depending on the water authority. What other industry think it's acceptable to lose that proportion of their "product"? Things are slowly getting better but leakage is still far too high.
Its really really hard to build new reservoirs. They have been trying to get the Havant Thicket site built for years and years and its had planning objection after objection. So yes the water companies could do hugely better its not 100% there fault..
they have started building it
I’m going full Bertie Smalls
I'm enjoying this reference!
We have a ‘power shower’ which runs off a hot water tank & takes about 30 seconds to get up to temperature, so I’ve started catching the 1st 30 seconds of water in a bucket which we now use to either flush the loo or chuck on the garden.
This is a great idea, I'm going to start doing the same
I’d actually suggest if we didn’t have privatised water companies losing millions of litres every day from leaks we’d not need a hosepipe ban.
I suspect the network were probably leaking before they were privatised.
It's not the privatisation per-see that is the problem, it's the total lack of regulation - they were allowed to sit back and do nothing for years, whilst paying dividends.
is that right (in the SE?) Commercial growing operations specifically seem to be allowed, couldn't see anything related to non-commercial though (even for food rather than ornamental)b) pointless, the ban doesn’t cover veg growing only ornamental flowers
Interestingly, drip irrigation systems specifically seem to be allowed, as does any indoor irrigation system.
I say kill half the population - then we'll have plenty of water.
Thanos was right.
Harden up and have a cold shower.
It’s good for your soul, immune system and the environment.
Who do you think I am, Wim Hoff?
In fact I’m going to start using the leccy shower in the main bathroom, it uses less water & gets hot straight away. It just doesn’t have as much poke as the other one.
Dammit, then it takes longer so might use as much water as the Aqualisa, so might use just as much.
Dilemmas eh?
I say kill half the population – then we’ll have plenty of water.
I’ve said this all along, 1/2 the population = 1/2 the pollution/resources required.
It’s not even science just logic & obviousness.
they were allowed to sit back and do nothing for years, whilst paying dividends.
Not strictly true, when water was first privatised massive investment was needed in waste water treatment, that's where the focus was.
It's too easy to bash the private companies, they inherited a Victorian system and now have a regulator who has no vision. Before privatisation our state run water boards were a disaster.
Our infrastructure is not what it should be but if it had been left in public hands it would be considerably worse. This was one of the drivers for privatisation, give the problem to someone else.
they were allowed to sit back and do nothing for years, whilst paying dividends.
This is not really true, as stated above they inherited crappy systems especially in the NW but they do like to pay dividends like any other Plc.
One thing I found back then was the battle between the office staff and the operational staff who were out in the field was highly counter productive. The ops guys knew every valve, meter, pipe on their patch and didn't care about neighbouring zones. The office bods, usually Civ Eng grads, thought they knew everything so there were often clashes. 25 yrs later things are much much better
If it wasn’t for profligate use of resources we wouldn’t need a hosepipe ban.
I’d suggest that having a water network which loses something like 3.1 billion litres of water a day through leaks also has something to do with it.
But the water companies have made a shit load of profit so it’s all good!
is that right (in the SE?) Commercial growing operations specifically seem to be allowed, couldn’t see anything related to non-commercial though (even for food rather than ornamental)
Interestingly, drip irrigation systems specifically seem to be allowed, as does any indoor irrigation system.
Now I'm doubting myself, that was definitely the announcement when I heard it last week. We seem to be on the border of both the Thames water and South East Water hosepipe bans so maybe they have different rules. The wording was definitely (along the lines of "you can't water ornamental plants [in your garden]", but that's not what the actual law says.
And the rules seemed quite vague, you can't do anything that would replace a hosepipe (e.g. a sprinkler), but presumably watering your veg by bucket/watering can is OK.
Hosepipe bans were originally to stop you using a hosepipe which can deliver a lot of water without effort and can left running overnight. The theory is that watering your veg plot/car/paddling pool with a watering can is much more work and only the most determined will use a lot of water.
the SE Water notice specifically says watering cans are still allowed, but presumably watering your veg by bucket/watering can is OK.
It's amazing to think that at the same time temperatures and droughts have increased, and the population has increased by 15 million people, the UK hasn't built any new reservoirs, that's over 40 years without a single new reservoir to provide additional cover for droughts and the increase in usage.
Water is following closely behind the railways and other services that were privatised and run to failure, it'll be handed back if it becomes too much of a problem for companies and stakeholders.
Reservoirs are bugger all in the big scheme of things. We abstract our water directly from the water table.
Of course, water table is lower and lower because of drought.
KILL THE PEOPLE!
Water is following closely behind the railways and other services that were privatised and run to failure, it’ll be handed back if it becomes too much of a problem for companies and stakeholders.
Rail was hardly an amazing success before privatisation - still took billions in subsidies. Privatisaton hasn't fundamentally changed anything. The current problem, facing the railways, is that post WFH people have realised that commuting to work is no longer necessary and as that was the backbone of revenue for the railway, it's a bit of a problem....
The current problem, facing the railways, is that post WFH people have realised that commuting to work is no longer necessary and as that was the backbone of revenue for the railway, it’s a bit of a problem….
The current problem for our household is that none of us trust Scotrail to actually run the service they should, so we're opting to not go by train. That includes journeys from Dunblane to Glasgow - 30 miles direct, which used to be 2 trains an hour for most of the day.
It’s been bone-dry with only a few days of rain down here in south Wales since spring.
Seeing this on Sunday really hit home just how dry it's been in Wales this year:
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That's the Beacons reservoir near Pen Y Fan. It's never been that low in my lifetime. The water level is 2-3 metres below the outlet that moves it downstream. You can walk all the way to the island on solid mud easily, the stream that feeds it is just a trickle and the top few metres of the mud has a decent amount of (now yellow) grass growing in it. It will take a lot of decent rain to fill it back up.
It’s amazing to think that at the same time temperatures and droughts have increased, and the population has increased by 15 million people, the UK hasn’t built any new reservoirs, that’s over 40 years without a single new reservoir to provide additional cover for droughts and the increase in usage.
Water and waste water provide detailed insights into many things e.g. the current rise of Polio in London. When immigration from Eastern Europe was bringing in lots of new workers, many councils refused to accept that population growth and the subsequent stretching of local services and amenities was an issue. They were saying oh it's only 3-4% more people so we can cope without investing. When the quizzed why the sewerage had increased by 50-60% they had no answer..
There are some very talented people in that industry.
chevychase
Free Member
I say kill half the population – then we’ll have plenty of water.Thanos was right.
esselgruntfuttock
Free MemberI’ve said this all along, 1/2 the population = 1/2 the pollution/resources required.
It’s not even science just logic & obviousness.
Well, we've got our first two volunteers.
It’s not the problem many think it is. The fact that we have a population of a certain size shows the resources can and have supported it. But obviously there will be a limit to expansion. We have exploited history and it will be at the expense of the future. We can harness the power of the sun and moon, but we're running out of dead dinos. The famines in Africa aren't as far away as people like to think. If we'd had this current drought earlier in the year, we wouldn't be having the successful harvest we're having now.
I think this generation will probably get away with it and that's as far ahead as most of us like to think.
I hosepiped my allotment last night via the river that runs at the bottom of it, using a drill-powered water pump.
As long as you have the necessary abstraction licence from the Environment Agency, you have my blessing. 🙂
Unless I put 20,000 litres onto me partners roses, I already have the blessing of the Environment Agency bro 😊👊
Taking water from a surface source (such as a river, stream or canal) or from an underground source is called abstraction. If you plan to take more than 20 cubic metres (20,000 litres) a day, you are likely to need an abstraction licence from the Environment Agency.
<smug>
Our 2 x 1000 litre IBCs are still more than half full after a good top-up from the rain a couple of weeks back - that's with daily watering anything in pots.
</smug>
I don't know why IBCs aren't used more for domestic water storage - we had a couplef of 200l ones and they'd be empty after a couple of weeks. The IBCs have a cage so you can grow stuff up them, and a flat top which can be turfed. It needs a bit of plumbing bodgery to make sure they fill efficiently - ideally diverting 100% of the run-off rather than using the crappy diverter things.
I’ve started flushing my toilet with bottles of Evian before throwing the empty plastic bottles on to a disposable barby I have constantly burning on some nearby open moorland
😂
Well, we’ve got our first two volunteers.
Did I volunteer? Didn't realise, sorry.
I'm 66 this month, doubt if I'll see the shitstorm you're looking at.
Which is once again why I wonder why couples plan on having more than one kid nowadays.
@reluctantjumper it was that low in 2020 too, walk out to the island and the original Pont ar Daf that the wood is named after was visible.
For context someone worked out that every day Severn-Trent leaks the equivalent of 36000 households leaving their shower on for 24-hours (4.5mn customers)
They aim for an average of no more than 3 restrictions on use per 100 years
I'm doing my bit to save water by not using the toilet at home. Instead I defecate into a dog poo bag and tie it in a tree in the local park.
Unless I put 20,000 litres onto me partners roses,
Fnarr fnarr!
Hyuk hyuk!
Snurk snurk!
Etc etc and so on and so forth
Binners has started flushing his toilet...
I’d actually suggest if we didn’t have privatised water companies losing millions of litres every day from leaks we’d not need a hosepipe ban.
While I agree with the sentiment, we had just as many leaks before they were privatised, and as MrsMC pointed out the other day, hosepipe bans in some part of the UK most summers 15-20 years ago.
Yeah I remember hosepipe bans in Shropshire in the 90s. Felt like quite a regular occurrence!
@reluctantjumper it was that low in 2020 too, walk out to the island and the original Pont ar Daf that the wood is named after was visible.
@timber - I saw it then and it's far lower now, plus the exposed parts are baked solid. The ranger who was up there said it's the lowest he's ever known it in 20 years taking into account the other rervoirs further down too.
Binners has started flushing his toilet…
Flaunting his wealth in the grim North. I bet it's inside as well!!
For context someone worked out that every day Severn-Trent leaks the equivalent of 36000 households leaving their shower on for 24-hours (4.5mn customers)
I wonder for context how much of those are what you get rightfully anoyed about wasting, long term problems in pipes that haven't been fixed. When someone says "wasted last year", lack of investment, etc. That's what springs to mind, pipes leaking all year?
But how much is either:
Pumping stations transfering between reservoirs down concrete lined tunnels that are probably riddled with small cracks.
Or Recent issues like the dry ground cracking pipes?
Flaunting his wealth in the grim North. I bet it’s inside as well!!
No chance! His local Tory MP has banned indoor loos