[Closed] I can now choose between Mac and PC for work

there are only about 3 macs to choose from and they are all on one web site 😉

is the thinkpad the 15" one? Makes my dell deal look just ordinary

Surely your job isn't ****y enough to justify a Mac? 😛

I think 16GB RAM is max on Macbook Pros, and if you need a 2nd drive installed I can't see how you'd fit one in.

Got rocket jr a 15" 2.5 GHz Pro with student discount it's pretty impressive

Runs other OSs in virtual boxes effortlessly. Display is spectacular

For someone used to PCs it's in a completely different league

no extra drive on a MBP but i use a flush fitting micro SD card adapter for iTunes/movies so i dont fill up the main drive.
when working at home i use an external thunderbolt2 SSD as a working/scratch disk which is insanely fast (would be even faster with one of the models released last week as the internal disk read/writes are even quicker.)

Thinkpad would be the desktop-replacement style W series, which is 15.6" screen.

One of my main concerns on Ubuntu on the Thinkpad is the stupid nVidia Optimus setup. Makes external monitors/projects a right pain. I could use Windows, but then we have to use PGP encryption which is crap. I don't think bitlocker is approved.

However 16Gb RAM on Macbooks isn't that much. According to their website I could get 1TB storage on a single drive which would probably be enough. Or I could maybe get away with an external drive.

Failing to see any compelling reason to get a Macbook to run Linux (beyond "someone else is paying for it", anyway). Surely the whole point of the Mac is OSX?

Would you run Ubuntu on the Mac in a VM? It's craaaap running natively on a Mac. The tight integration of OSX & the hardware is why they're worth the cash.

OSX can install most unixy stuff anyway using fink, brew or macports.

rocketman - Member
Got rocket jr a 15" 2.5 GHz Pro with student discount it's pretty impressive

Runs other OSs in virtual boxes effortlessly. Display is spectacular

Spec really depends on what you want. I dropped from I7 to I5 to get a 17" screen in budget over the 15" which to me is more important useful than the raw processing. Sounds like Ram is key to you how much do you use the processing? Dropping from OSx will just end up with you running a HW spec in one box vs the other.

Yeah I feel as if MacOS would just annoy me. But if it solves the problems of our corporate Windows build (PGP) and corporate Ubuntu (external monitors) then it might be worth it.

Looks like the W550 only supports 16Gb ram too - the W541 I'd need to get 32Gb. I could probably manage with 16Gb if it were worth it.

Weights seem roughly similar although W541 is a bit heavier, and it has a larger PSU too which is the biggest issue with this one.

As for processing power - I don't need a huge amount.

What's VMWare workstation like on a Mac? Does it support Linux guests as well as the Win/Lin versions? Their site pitches it strongly at Windows guests.

What's VMWare workstation like on a Mac? Does it support Linux guests as well as the Win/Lin versions? Their site pitches it strongly at Windows guests.

I use Fusion, not sure if WS still exists on OSX. Anyway with Ubuntu it works perfectly.

then we have to use PGP encryption which is crap. I don't think bitlocker is approved.

What's wrong with Bitlocker?

If you need RAM over processing drop to an i5 an get the toys upgraded on the laptop. I did the benchmark comparions on my choices and the i5/i7 choice wasn't that significant. Have you looked at the new Dell Inspiron 5000?
http://www.dell.com/uk/p/inspiron-15-7548-laptop/pd.aspx?c=uk&cs=ukdhs1&l=en&s=dhs&~ck=mn
probably on a corp scheme but these do AMD graphics, not sure how AMD and Ubuntu play these days

Using Virtual box with centos and win 8.1 /xp /7 guests on osx.

[quote=Cougar ]Failing to see any compelling reason to get a Macbook to run Linux (beyond "someone else is paying for it", anyway). Surely the whole point of the Mac is OSX?

The hardware is just nicer. build quality on my thinkpad is crap in comparison to my mrs's MB air.

Personally I'd buy a high end MBP and install W7...

The hardware is just nicer.

I use a Thinkpad X1 carbon for work.

Easily the best laptop I've had from a performance, and build quality standpoint, but the non-standard keyboard drives me insane! Beware

The hardware is just nicer. build quality on my thinkpad is crap in comparison to my mrs's MB air.

+1

Nothing comes close to quality and longevity of a MacBook.

I have a have a W541 in front of me right now. It's very very nice, extremely fast despite the best efforts of our corporate image. PSU is mahoosive by modern standards to the point it attracts comments - the 90s called they want their power block back.

Fusion = Workstation on Mac

Depends on what you're trying to do but if you're going to put Ubuntu on it I'd get the W541. If it was for my own titting about I'd get the Mac though 🙂

Run Ubuntu on VMWare Fusion and it works great.

I would avoid a thinkpad personally. I have a Mac and have done for years with no issues, my work machines have been thinkpads and keyboards and screens keep requiring fixing - quite frustrating, but could be a bad patch we have

It's exactly the same hardware in a different box

does it have thunderbolt 2? is the SSD as fast as the new MBP one? does it have a haptic feedback trackpad?
a retina screen? a digital optical out?

and if I was using it mostly at home I'd go with a nice screen and a really nice keyboard and mouse. Build quality becomes a little irrelevant at that point too

Is the MAC ssd faster than a PC SSD? It's made in the same place. Retina is a TM not a resolution, which res? can you tell the difference between 2 & 3?
What do you do with a haptic feedback touchpad? Personally I use a mouse for most things still.
Digital optical out> Sound goes out on the HDMI so the optical out was redundant about 5 years ago...

Honestly you could find a PC with all but the thunerbolt but as I can go 1ghz on network then thats fine not plugged in an internal drive in years it's all cloud or network these days. As I said earlier consider what you want and pick accordingly, the things you list don't make it any better for what I use my work PC for.

Digital optical out> Sound goes out on the HDMI so the optical out was redundant about 5 years ago...

Honestly you could find a PC with all but the thunerbolt but as I can go 1ghz on network then thats fine not plugged in an internal drive in years it's all cloud or network these days. As I said earlier consider what you want and pick accordingly, the things you list don't make it any better for what I use my work PC for.

agree with considering what you want and pick accordingly.

your choice wouldn’t work for me, as i need the dual thunderbolt ports for high bitrate/raw video and photography/photshop. USB3/network speeds are too slow as is any cloud back-up for real time working.

as for disk speed? no idea but is it as fast as this?:

[i] We measured transfer speeds with BlackMagic Disk Speed Test coming in at 1,328MB/s read and 627MB/s write on the newest SSD. .[/i]

[img] [/img]On storagre access USB3 vs others (from macbookworld)
http://www.sandisk.com.au/products/ssd/sata/
hitting 550 MB/s read/515 write so not that shabby and I'd love to see someone tell the difference in everyday use

Surely the whole point of the Mac is OSX?

I would say the quality of the hardware edges it. Mac keyboard/trackpads are just really really good.

I'd love to see someone tell the difference in everyday use

depends what “everyday use” is. absolutely no difference surfing the web or creating a dull spreadsheet/powerpoint.

huge difference in working on 4k/HD footage without using proxies or retouching 10gb 16bit photoshop files and saving your progress every few mins. last computer upgrade i did gained me nearly an hour a day in time saved waiting for rendering or save times.

I would avoid a thinkpad personally. I have a Mac and have done for years with no issues, my work machines have been thinkpads and keyboards and screens keep requiring fixing - quite frustrating, but could be a bad patch we have

Bad batch I reckon or heavy thumbs I reckon 🙂 - have thousands here and not seen that issue. Thinkpads have been rock solid hardware wise, Dells (global contract before) not so.

This Thinkpad has done brilliantly, despite being battered about, so I'm happy to keep using them. I broke the case a couple of times, and I could've replaced the broken bits for about £15 from ebay, but I ended up gluing it together. The internal metal chassis was undamaged.

I don't care about Thunderbolt - the chances of work buying me an external thunderbolt SSD are about nil anyway.

Nothing comes close to quality and longevity of a MacBook.

Not only do I doubt that, but it's moot because we get a new machine every 4 years anyway, and an instant replacement if it breaks in the mean time.

MrSmith, you wiuld be at the 1-2% of users there, again no benefit to most people certainly not worth paying for if it's not useful. The MAC may fling out some big numbers but if you can't use them what the point?

OP I would get the Mac no question, it will run the VMs and you get the upside of the time you can run it using OSX. The main reason not to buy Mac is cost and that's not a factor for you.

Is longevity a moot point? Hopefully work will let you keep the old machine which will still be going strong in 2019 IMO and running the latest OSX upgraded annually for free.

The MAC may fling out some big numbers but if you can't use them what the point?

good for sitting in cafe’s pretending you are creative?

you get the upside of the time you can run it using OSX

If that is an upside..... 🙂

Hopefully work will let you keep the old machine

That would be nice, but I doubt it.

If you really need 32Gb that really limits you to the portable workstations. So macs are out, as is anything thin and light. Add in good native linux support and you're limited again.

I have these requirements (and 32Gb barely cuts it for me, so it has to be), we use Dell 4700 (old version) and 4800 Precisions (new version). There's the bigger screen 6800 too.

Key points from a linux POV: Get the intel wifi card not the dell option, works better. Get an nvidia GPU not budget AMD one. And we disable optimus and just run on the discrete GPU. Find they manage their power well enough* that the lost runtime isn't a huge deal. 2 external screens + 1 internal works ok, only certain configurations of 3 external screens work.

Room for 1 2.5" drive and a mSata SSD too, so you can have a pair of 1Tb SSDs if you want. The 6800 takes 2x 2.5" + mSata, and all can have a 2.5 bay instead of the optical drive. So you can have up to 4 SSDs in the big one 😀

Big heavy machines mind, if you can live with 16Gb you can get some nicer thin/light kit including macs.

Whoever said macs are just PCs - show me a PC laptop with NVMe/PCIe SSD in it?** And yes, you might not notice it but we're talking high end machines in here...

*annoyingly they half the max GPU clock on battery, and there's NOTHING you can do about it even if you want it faster and know it'll hose the battery.

**OK ok, certain models of the latest X1 carbon, how's that battery doing then? 😉

You at Big Blue Molgrips?

And we disable optimus and just run on the discrete GPU

On this machine, W520, that cuts my battery life from 6 hours to about 3.5...

Mac keyboard/trackpads are just really really good.

No dedicated number pad though and who uses a trackpad on a regular basis.

My work Thinkpad is over 2 years old and fine for what I want, does it's job more reliably than my colleagues mac Book Pro. Although I will admit his has a nicer screen.

who uses a trackpad on a regular basis

everyone who uses a laptop on a regular basis, and the mac one is much nicer than the thinkpad one.

I've used a laptop on a daily basis for years and rarely use the trackpad, far quicker and easier to use a mouse.

I use the trackpad when I don't have the mouse, what exactly does a mac trackpad do for you, does it tickle you back?

The mouse just travels with me because it's much better than any track pad can be for what I do.
Anyway the number pad will be a deal breaker for molgrips as it will be hard work entering all those random numbers without one.

+1

I also use trackpad, often I am sitting in a hotel room on the bed, or I'm just grabbing my laptop and heading to a meeting room, maybe presenting on a lectern or something.

Having said that I get on fine with most, not sure what a Mac trackpad would offer?

what exactly does a mac trackpad do for you,

works better. more responsive, recognises gestures better, nicer click action. it's not a mac fanboy thing, in many ways I prefer my thinkpad but with the trackpad and keyboard there is a clear winner.

I've used a laptop on a daily basis for years and rarely use the trackpad, far quicker and easier to use a mouse.

i use a laptop on a daily basis and always use the trackpad (set up so you dont even click it just 1/2 finger taps)
or a wacom tablet when at home. i haven’t owned/used a mouse for 10 years.

I've used both, just wondered whaT i was missing, seems like it doesn't do anything nice if you drop your balls on it so it's probably not worth the $$. Anyway the mouse is king 🙂

I also use trackpad, often I am sitting in a hotel room on the bed, or I'm just grabbing my laptop and heading to a meeting room, maybe presenting on a lectern or something.

1) Decent business hotel rooms have tables.
2) Meeting rooms have tables.
3) Presentations - irrelevant really as it's not like you use the actual trackpad to any major degree.

No number pad is a bigger deal breaker for me than a slightly worse trackpad.

Maybe the deal breaker is whether you'd prefer the Yanks or the Chinese knowing what filth you look at in your hotel room 😆

Decent business hotel rooms have tables.

You sit at the table to surf stw? And yes I do use the trackpad in presentations, I demonstrate things.

But thanks for trying to tell me what I do and don't do 🙂

Not only do I doubt that, but it's moot because we get a new machine every 4 years anyway, and an instant replacement if it breaks in the mean time.

If that is an upside.....

This Thinkpad has done brilliantly, despite being battered about, so I'm happy to keep using them.

Just get the Thinkpad.

But there are two flaws with the thinkpad, not physically but in use. One is having to use PGP for windows, which causes issues, and the alternative OS, Ubuntu, doesn't support external monitors well on the Thinkpad.

That's the only reason I am consdering Mac - it will work better, probably. Until I find something that doesn't work well on that for work and then I'll be annoyed 🙂

it's not a mac fanboy thing, in many ways I prefer my thinkpad but with the trackpad and keyboard there is a clear winner.

The trackpad is definitely better, but the keyboard is a POS when you're used to a Windows keyboard - it's missing the begin/end keys which is a right pain for selecting text, as well as the right-button menu key. And no number pad. The backlighting's nice, but hardly Mac only.

as well as the right-button menu key

Macs have right click, you just have to enable it...

yes I do use the trackpad in presentations, I demonstrate things.

Have you considered some form of remote? Might be a bit more professional than hunkering over a keyboard. (Genuine suggestion, not being an arse.)

There's no home and end on a Mac? ❗

Have you considered some form of remote?

Like what? I'm demoing products usually, so I have to operate the computer and talk through it. Don't worry, I do face my audience 🙂

If you use Mac and Keynote you can control the presentation from your iPhone and preview the next slide

On this machine, W520, that cuts my battery life from 6 hours to about 3.5...

Ah it's a non-issue for me, because the reason I'm using a portable workstation is, well, i need a portable workstation. Nothing compute intensive is going to last 6 hours on any laptop.

And if you're not using it for "proper work"* then why do you need 32Gb? Dropping that requirement opens up a world of "nicer" machines

missing the begin/end keys which is a right pain for selecting text,

fn+left/right, various other keyboard shortcuts for previous word/line/page etc. I actually prefer how text selection works on my macs.

Those saying what's special about mac trackpads presumably haven't used them much/at all? They're generally much larger and far more responsive. The only PC one I've seen that comes close is on the HP Spectre.

That's the only reason I am consdering Mac - it will work better, probably. Until I find something that doesn't work well on that for work and then I'll be annoyed

If the requirement is "linux" nearly everything you can do there works fine on a mac, it's a proper *nix after all, unless you've got particular stuff that's distributed binary only. In which case a VM maybe? The awkward possible exception could be a VPN client if not available for mac (most are, though corporate support may be an issue).

Sounds like the monitors and battery life matter more to you than the OS per-se and the power, so a 16Gb 15" macbook pro sounds like a good option? Nice high res screen and pretty good battery life.

*;-)

Ubuntu, doesn't support external monitors well on the Thinkpad.

Might be better on the W541 as it has a 'real' video card, but I draw the line at formatting it to find out for you 🙂 (NVIDIA Quadro K2100M on mine)

Though the interaction with the HD graphics might introduce new and interesting problems for you too post about..

Macs have right click, you just have to enable it...

I mean on the keyboard. There's a dedicated key for it, between Alt and Ctrl to the right of the spacebar. Not the old canard about no right click with a mac mouse/trackpad.

That video card uses nvidia optimus, that's the issue - it's a low power graphics card (an intel one) with an nvidia bolted on the back for 3D duties. The output of the Intel card is connected to the display, and the output of the 3D card is piped through the Intel card. All fine and dandy, except that for some unexplained reason the external monitor outputs are connected to the nVidia card, not the Intel one.. There'd better be a sound technical reason why they can't be connected to the Intel one, that's all I can say.

Nothing compute intensive is going to last 6 hours on any laptop

No, but as a mobile consultant this laptop is a bit of a lifeline. In the day it may be running a couple of VMs with server software installed on them (hence memory requirements), on trains or planes it's used for documents and admin, and in the evenings if I am away it's used for surfing, chatting and whatnot.

No, but as a mobile consultant this laptop is a bit of a lifeline. In the day it may be running a couple of VMs with server software installed on them (hence memory requirements), on trains or planes it's used for documents and admin, and in the evenings if I am away it's used for surfing, chatting and whatnot.

Ah ok, makes sense. I tend to take an ipad/small personal laptop for the planes/trains/etc use. Which is admittedly a PITA. Though mostly it's the size of the work laptop that's the pain.

I tend to take an ipad/small personal laptop for the planes/trains/etc use.

I also write code or do other techie things in the evenings. Plus I don't own an iPad. And when I travel with the computer the tablet would be redundant. Sometimes I ahve to bring a client laptop, that's a PITA then esp if I am cycling. For that, I want to buy my own Microsoft Surface but that'll take some saving up for 🙂

and in the evenings if I am away it's used for surfing, chatting and whatnot.

Get a decent phone / phablet / tablet then. That explains why I didn't get you point about surfing the web on the hotel bed, I'd do that on my phone, not my work laptop which will be sitting on the desk.

If I need to demonstrate for hours on end then I don't use a lectern, but sit at a table, then using a mouse is a fine. If it's just plain presentation then a remote clicker or even just hitting the return button works fine.

Get a decent phone / phablet / tablet then

Spend £x00 of my own money on a second device to cart about? No ta!

I think you are thinking of solutions to things that aren't problems.

I've got a 13inch i5 Macbook Pro (SSD and 16GB RAM) that I use for development.

Having a Unix based OS means I'm happy not developing inside a VM (ssh, scp and bash), so that cuts down on the resource utilisation and will just run a single VM to deploy / run code in.

It's ok running the latest Cloudera Hadoop quickstart VM in Fusion, although struggles a bit if you have too many services running. Anything bigger and I move it to an AWS EC2 instance, which is infinitely preferable to lugging around a bigger laptop and probably cheaper for the few occasions I need to do it.

Worth getting VMWare Fusion as I think this:
[url= https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/11606 ]https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/11606[/url]
is still an issue on VirtualBox / retina display combinations.

Does running a VM on your Mac consume extra CPU resources? It does on the TP under Ubunutu - each VM takes a chunk off battery life and makes it run hotter. Running two at once makes it pretty warm.

Good question... I've never particularly noticed it, but then if I'm just browsing the web or editing text I'll use OS X. Building / running software tends to be more resource intensive anyway and obviously drains the battery more.

Will do a very unscientific test and get back to you!

I mean on the keyboard. There's a dedicated key for it, between Alt and Ctrl to the right of the spacebar.

Shift-F10 is broadly the same thing too, if you have a keyboard without a dedicated button.

Will do a very unscientific test and get back to you!

Ta.. I open up system monitor/top and a process called vmware-vmx starts taking up 10% or so CPU. It's worse with Windows guests, but still does it with Linux.

Yup, vmware-vmx occupying around 3% of my CPU (at a terminal). With Unity running that hops up another 1%.

[i]If you use Mac and Keynote you can control the presentation from your iPhone and preview the next slide[/i]

If someone was presenting to me and I saw they were using their iPhone to control their macbook, I'd stop listening. 😉

Molgrips, I'd go for the MBP if it was me. I don't think OSX is better than any other OS unless I'm using the command line and since you'll be using Ubuntu then that evens out. The MBP is definitely a nicer piece of kit than the Thinkpad.

Tough call I think

I use predominantly Linux at work and I was using it for most things at home too. A few programs I needed to run would not run under Linux I used a windows VM which was annoying. So I got a Mac Book Pro (i7 16GB etc etc) and its great I can run all those programs I needed natively now which is great. If run a few Linux VM's when needed, but the great thing is as the operating system is basically linux at lot of the things I would do on the Linux command line I can do natively.

I am a convert I pushed back on them for a long time, but I was wrong.

Also when I priced a similar spec PC laptop with same screen resolution etc, there was not a whole lot of difference in price.

I am a convert I pushed back on them for a long time, but I was wrong.

I am a convert I pushed back on them for a long time, but I was wrong.

This. I didn't make the switch till 2007 and now would never go back

See, as someone who converted for basically all the same reasons in '03 (the first usable version of OSX was .3 then) I'm now considering going back to windows 8.1/10 for home use.

For work I'd use a Mac still if:

a) I could get one powerful enough
b) Work would let me (i could for one of my machines)

Oh.. just got another email, whilst we're supposedly entitled to Macs, we're not *actually* entitled due to some red tape 🙄