[Closed] "I asked God to help me"

zippykona - Member

Has anyone on here had a near death experience and how did they deal with it? Not picking a fight ,just interested.

Not near death, by any stretch of the imagination, but I hope I'm never as poorly as I was 18 months ago until the day I die

Junkyard - Member

You are not good with evidence are you
Last time an aethist knocked on your door to convert you? Do we hold services every Sunday for the flock?
Get articles published in the papers anbout our special place in society? What utter BS [Your point is probably true for STW bit not the world in general]

I'm sorry for my utter BS, I can't really understand your post that well, THIS IS NOT A DIG AT YOU, BUT ON SOME DAYS MY BRAIN SEEMS TO NOT LIKE SENTENCES PROPERLY.

but to clarify
1. I'm not religious at all
2. I don't consider myself an Atheist
3. I am probably an Atheist

My observations come from that I have, in the past had discussions with people who have turned being not religious almost into a religion in itself. It's ridiculous. THIS IS JUST AN OBSERVATION, NOT AN ATTACK ON ANYONE ON HERE.

In truth, I just don't care enough either way. I still think that it's fantastic if someone can allay their fears with a belief that strong, and on the whole, we should be pleased for them. I'd like to bet there's not a single self professed 'Atheist' on here, that will sit by the side of religious loved one, on their death bed and tell them that they are wrong, I'm sure you'll take comfort from their faith instead. I know I would.

I'd like to bet there's not a single self professed 'Atheist' on here, that will sit by the side of religious loved one, on their death bed and tell them that they are wrong, I'm sure you'll take comfort from their faith instead. I know I would.

I think you've bundled two separate things here as though they're the same thing. They're not. Let me elaborate.

I'd like to bet there's not a single self professed 'Atheist' on here, that will sit by the side of religious loved one, on their death bed and tell them that they are wrong

Being atheist, even militantly so, does not override things like compassion (despite what some theists might have you believe). Someone trying to engage a loved one on their deathbed into a theological argument in order to take away something which is helping them, however misguided their belief might be, has issues. That's not atheism, it's cruelty.

By the same argument, any priests visiting me on my death bed seeking an eleventh hour conversion can sod right off.

However,

I'm sure you'll take comfort from their faith instead. I know I would.

I know I wouldn't. I might take comfort in them being at peace, but I wouldn't derive comfort directly from their faith, that's just... odd, it implies that although I'm atheist I'm just in denial and secretly do believe.

[i]I'd like to bet there's not a single self professed 'Atheist' on here, that will sit by the side of religious loved one, on their death bed and tell them that they are wrong, I'm sure you'll take comfort from their faith instead. I know I would.[/i]

As above you are mixing up two things.

As it happens, I have sat by the side of religious people, who were dying, and talked about their belief and god and my atheism. It's not about telling them that they are wrong; that would be as offensive as someone trying to convert me to religion because I was dying.

The 'No atheists in foxholes' business is cobblers too; dying people often have no time or inclination for any religious stuff; they often reject it outright at that point.

I will wager you will find a large number of believers who will pray for atheists who have asked them not to and I assume on the death bed too.
they will then bury them where they [ the living person] has chosen in a religious service that gives them comfort.

I am pretty sure that even an STW big Hitter /Whoppit [ no offence Whoppit you are just our most passionate member ] would not argue with someone on their death bed

I will wager you will find a large number of believers who will pray for atheists who have asked them not to

I don't think I'd ask them not to. The may be "praying for me" but really, they're praying for themselves, it gives them comfort to think they're helping. If makes not a jot of difference to me, and it makes them feel better. What do I gain by asking them not to?

Funerals aren't for the benefit of the dead. They're for those left behind. When I'm dead you can cremate me and use me to grit the path for what difference it makes.

...and when people who are ostensibly religious realise that I'm not, they sometimes relax and stop pretending; you'd be surprised by some of the things I've heard regarding faith and religion.

rogerthecat - Member
"[i]What is wrong with live and let live. He has his beliefs as many do. He is doing no harm.[/i]"
Wow! You need to read a little more. Belief and religion have been used as control mechanisms to predicate a war against other religions/faiths/belief systems throughout history - does the Holocaust ring any bells?
POSTED 7 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

It seems quite rude how roger's been ignored and had to wait 7 hours for his reward.

[img] [/img]

Mucho ta for the award, I'd like to thank my parents, my teachers, my family, STW Forum and the Third Reich for making it all possible, and above all, God for his unseen and unnoticed hand in all things for making this happen. 😀

Just my view....
I have no faith although my wife was brought up Catholic and does. It has never really been an issue in our relationship and we rarely discuss theology although we share many values with regard to being good human beings. Last month our son was born by emergency c-section and as he came out we quickly realised something was very wrong. He had no heartbeat and I watched while the crash team did eight minutes of CPR, during which time I saw a staff member check for a trace and solemnly shake his head. As I sat there helplessly sobbing with fear, I realised my wife was silently praying. The doctors and nurses kick started our little man and he was whisked away to the neonatal ward to be cooled. Nothing about this has changed the beliefs of either me or my wife. She was massively grateful to the staff that saved him and I can well believe Muamba could be grateful to both his God as well as those who helped him.

Now, I am well aware of the doubtless misery and oppression that has been carried out in the name of organised religion, but I also believe that faith in all it's forms can give great comfort to many in what is for them, a cruel difficult world. To sneer and belittle that source of comfort seems to be, to me at least, somewhat inhuman. Maybe those of us that believe in 'live and let live' need to shout as loudly as the religious zealots and the militant atheists.

Well said that man!

Just because it's comforting, that doesn't mean it's true.

Just because it's true, doesn't make it comforting.

[img] [/img]
I guess that that settles this little argument. 😛

Looks like he's waiting for a second coming.

The only slightly frustrating thing about this is the amount of credit the cardiologist gets, there's not anything more he could have done that the paramedics who helped him. They get very few mentions though but that's normal, everyone knows that we only transport just check any media reports.

Zulu-Eleven - Member

Well said that man!

And yet again I'm forced to agree with Zulu-Eleven.

Well put LimboJimbo - particularly liked [i]"Maybe those of us that believe in 'live and let live' need to shout as loudly as the religious zealots and the militant atheists."[/i]

And I'm very glad to hear that Little LimboJimbo didn't end up in Limbo 8)

Has an atheist ever knocked on your door and tried to foist his non belief on you?

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to where and when these "militant atheists" have been "shouting loudly"?

....handing out leaflets on behalf of Falun Dafa/Falun Gong

I have never understood why the plight of Falun Gong in China is so comprehensively ignored by the British media and politicians. For whatever reason the persecution of Falun Gong doesn't pull the heartstrings of bourgeois guardian reading liberals in the way the Dalai Lama does.

Thanks for raising awareness of a highly neglected and yet extremely persecuted people CountZero.

Now, I am well aware of the doubtless misery and oppression that has been carried out in the name of organised religion, but I also believe that faith in all it's forms can give great comfort to many in what is for them, a cruel difficult world. To sneer and belittle that source of comfort seems to be, to me at least, somewhat inhuman.

I am not following the logic that means we accept this [s]lie[/s] utterly unproven conjecture and the misery and oppression that comes with it because some people get comfort from believing in fairies.

Glad they pulled through had something not quite as harrowing but similar with my second.
EDIT:
Good point /retort re China and other Communist regimes

The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man – state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to where and when these "militant atheists" have been "shouting loudly"?

So... that'll be a no, then. 🙄

Rabid STW atheism is almost as bad as organised religion.

I believe Jaladdin Rumi the Sufi Ppoet said it best for me.

"Rabid", eh? Goodness, has it finally leapt the channel, then? Who has been bitten? I thnk we should be told.

Must be frothing at the mourth as well as doing all that militant shouting...

So... that'll be a no, then.

Actually, I was having my tea.

Perhaps shouting isn't the right expression if you want to take me literally. I suppose it's the aggressive and belittling attitude of some, particularly on here, about the personal beliefs of others. I believe that any actions should be justifiable but beliefs are personal and should be treated with respect.

I believe that any actions should be justifiable but beliefs are personal and should be treated with respect.

What, all beliefs?
Let's say:
All bald people are evil and should be killed.
Female genital mutilation is justified.
Paedophilia is perfectly acceptable.
A man should be allowed to beat & rape his wife.
White people are superior to any other ethnic group and the laws of our society should reflect this.

Those kind of beliefs?
They should be treated with respect should they?

....but beliefs are personal and should be treated with respect.

You're gonna get people like Woppit frothing at the mouth with talk like that.

You've been warned.

Respect is earned, not demanded, I'm afraid.

Doubly so when it comes to beliefs, given half a chance most people will believe any old nonsense. Should we respect a belief in homeopathy over chemotherapy, Darwinism aside?

ernie_lynch - Member

You're gonna get people like Woppit frothing at the mouth with talk like that.

Wasn't there a thread about some people being angry a while back?

So we have had an atheist matins period this morning. Is the renewed, high level of activity an atheist vespers/compline? 😉

(ps, I am not left footed, just enjoying the fun here!!)

A belief is nothing more than an opinion.

It's human nature to discuss and riducule belief and opinion.
If you don't want your beliefs challenged, then don't share them with anyone.

All bald people are evil and should be killed.
Female genital mutilation is justified.
Paedophilia is perfectly acceptable.
A man should be allowed to beat & rape his wife.
White people are superior to any other ethnic group and the laws of our society should reflect this.

Whoa there! Were we not talking about religion? If I've missed a whole other part of this thread where the above was being justified then, apologies. This is generally why I limit my posts on here to trying to offer advice or weak attempts at whimsy. I realise that this is an emotive subject, but I can't imagine many would make the leap from espousing freedom of religious belief to the justification of rape.

I will clamber down off my fluffy, liberal high horse now as Silent Witness is starting.

I can't imagine many would make the leap from espousing freedom of religious belief to the justification of rape.

You don't often click on religious threads then ?

In answer to the OP, I'm not annoyed by that I'm sure the guy is equally thankful to those who he believes Gods hand guided.

When I'm not trolling atheists, ( in truth I believe them to be as bad as theists) I'm probably best described as an Agnostic or maybe a kind of Agnostic theist.

However more than that I believe fundamentally to live and let live, if this guy has this faith then great and I'm glad it helped him even though he's a bloody footballing fairy, maybe it'll change the way some of those Godless heathens that watch that stupid game week in week out in between beating each other up, think.

As to the Guy earlier in the thread that asked about near death experiences, I've had that and i have to say came away from it very enlightened, but not in any man with Beard sitting on throne with harp players surrounding him, way, one day I plan to write it all down but don't, for fear of being defined as even more of a nut job than I currently am.

I believe we need faith in something other than man made guidance, so we'd have to invent some form of after life retribution for evil bastards that would rule us. Whatever, the threads not about wether or what we believe in, it's the right of a footballer to believe he was helped by God and thousands have died to protect that right, so hardly our place to question it.

First and indeed, last time Ernie. Anyway, what tyres for for the road to Damascus?

god(note small g)is made up,read the bible and THINK for 10 seconds,you'll see 😆

derekrides - Member

However more than that I believe fundamentally to live and let live

Except of course those who fall foul of Dereks Law...........those you want to gun down in the street like you would a dog.

Still, it's nice to see that you have your empathy hat on tonight Derek.

This is generally why I limit my posts on here to trying to offer advice or weak attempts at whimsy.

If you want an honest suggestion, I'd say carry on not limiting your posts, but try not to take it personally if someone disagrees.

In this case, we're looking at reductio ad absurdum. Ie, you've made a statement that beliefs should be respected; someone has exaggerated that idea to provide examples why this shouldn't automatically be the case. It's not an attack on you, it's supposed to demonstrate (albeit in a blunt manner) why that someone would disagree.

I'm probably best described as an Agnostic or maybe a kind of Agnostic theist.

By whom?

I believe that any actions should be justifiable but beliefs are personal and should be treated with respect.

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

[img] http://www.spuc.org.uk/images/chains/2011/nottingham01 [/img]

Your last pic made me chuckle TJ......."Women deserve better than abortion" "Hurt by abortion? Call...." Outrageous !!! 🙂

LimboJimbo - Member

......but I can't imagine many would make the leap from espousing freedom of religious belief to the justification of rape.

I didn't.

You said....

beliefs are personal and should be treated with respect.

I'm just wondering whether you mean all beliefs, or just ones relating to the supernatural?

If not all, which ones are exempt from question, analysis and ridicule?

Just interested, that's all.

ernie_lynch - Member

Your last pic made me chuckle TJ......."Women deserve better than abortion" "Hurt by abortion? Call...." Outrageous !!!

Have they got an STW logon for the chat forum yet?

I'm not taking anything personally, I was taken slightly aback by the level of absurd in the response to my albeit poorly worded statement. To clarify, my point was that although organised religion has plenty to answer for, a individuals personal religious belief should be respected even if disagreed with. Challenging that belief is fine, but belittling it seems to cross the line and become attack. Just my opinion of course.

nasty bunch of zealots determined to force their views on others

Well obviously not everyone has the same views on abortion, and not always on religious grounds - I take it you don't believe that abortion kills babies for example. But "Women deserve better than abortion" and "Hurt by abortion? Call..." can hardly be described as offensive hate-filled poison, which I assume was your intention.

I presume you didn't bother reading the banners properly as you frantically scoured Google Images for some dirt. I'm sure you could have found something rather more offensive if you had calmed down and taken a bit more time.

......my albeit poorly worded statement

It was very well worded. Don't let them make you start doubting yourself.

Nope ernie - quite calm just couldn't be bothered finding any more.

So it was just a half-arse attempt then ?

Fair enough.......made me chuckle 🙂

To clarify, my point was that although organised religion has plenty to answer for, a individuals personal religious belief should be respected even if disagreed with. Challenging that belief is fine, but belittling it seems to cross the line and become attack. Just my opinion of course.

fine so long as they keep it to themselves, Use their beliefs to ty to tellme what to do or to attack others then expect to be challenged

LimboJimbo - Member

I'm not taking anything personally, I was taken slightly aback by the level of absurd in the response to my albeit poorly worded statement. To clarify, my point was that although organised religion has plenty to answer for, a individuals personal religious belief should be respected even if disagreed with. Challenging that belief is fine, but belittling it seems to cross the line and become attack. Just my opinion of course.

Thanks for the response.

I'd be interested why you think only religious belief/opinion, as opposed to all other forms of belief, is worthy of exemption from attack?

If we are ok to belittle political, sexual and cultural beliefs, what makes religious belief any different?

TJ, I couldn't agree more there is plenty to challenge in those pictures. It seems as though all religious belief is ridiculed by some rather than the hatred some people use that belief to justify.

Jimbo, don't answer if you don't want to, but I'm seriously interested.

I've asked the above question on many occaisions, but never really had a response.

I'd be genuinely interested in your opinion.

Regards,
Pete.

I'd be interested why you think only religious belief/opinion, as opposed to all other forms of belief, is worthy of exemption from attack?

If we are ok to belittle political, sexual and cultural beliefs, what makes religious belief any different?

The problem here is with the word 'attack'.

This thread isn't about religious extremism. It started out about a very humble and down to earth guy (particularly when you consider his peers). Why should someone like that be 'attacked' without any kind of provocation?

I mean, if someone wants a fight. Get your shirt off and go for it. Fill ya boots. But is it OK to attack people for their religious, sexual or cultural beliefs? If it's not to the detriment of those around them then I don't think it is. Is it? They are open to discussion, certainly. But not attack.

my point was that although organised religion has plenty to answer for, a individuals personal religious belief should be respected even if disagreed with

And I would disagree with that. I think an individual's religious belief perhaps should be ignored, tolerated, or otherwise taken into account in some circumstances, but 'respected'? No. A belief in a god or gods commands no more respect than a belief in homeopathy or any other man-made fiction. Why should it?

If my mate Dave thinks he's Napoleon, should I respect that belief, or should I give him a bunch of pictures of diminutive French dictators and a mirror? If he persists in his belief, should I respect that or should I take the proverbial? (See my comments about humour earlier in this thread)

Butcher > well said, sir.

... so, if God made Jesus... who made God?

Butcher, +many.

But is it OK to attack people for their religious, sexual or cultural beliefs? If it's not to the detriment of those around them then I don't think it is. Is it? They are open to discussion, certainly. But not attack.

You see, this is where the problem arises:
One persons discussion is another persons attack.

No, it might not be nice to laugh at anothers deeply held opinions, but humour is a fundamental part of how we debate and reconcile the basic issues of humanity.

Someone is going to get offended, however much care is taken to avoid it.

You can't separate humour and mockery from wider debate - human nature, surely?

Jimbo, don't answer if you don't want to, but I'm seriously interested.

I've asked the above question on many occaisions, but never really had a response.

I'd be genuinely interested in your opinion.

Regards,
Pete.

I'm still considering it TBH. I initially responded to the specific theme of the OP (please check my first post) but the discussion has widened to cover points that I genuinely don't have the answers for. My initial instinct is to defend the right for individual belief whether I personally agree with it or not. The paradox is that, that freedom can allow some to hide behind it and cause harm. I am open minded to the views of others and have lots more to think about.

James.

Cougar, I think it probably comes down to a definition of 'respect'. In terms of expecting ones views (religious or otherwise) to go completely unchallenged and be 'untouchable', then I'm 100% with you in that this should never e te case. If you strongly believe something then being challenged on it shouldn't really be a big deal. However, in terms of expecting ones views (religious or otherwise) to be allowed to be expressed, even if every listener (or reader) dismissed them instantly, then yes I do think that should be expected. I expect to be able to say 'hey, I'm a Christian' and, if they don't agree, for other people to go 'great, I think your wrong, but fair play if that's what you believe in'. More than happy , and fully expect, to then be challenged on WHY I have that belief, but NOT on the fact I have that belief in the first place.

[edited for a should instead of a shouldn't!! stupid iPhone....]

CaptainFlashheart - Member

Butcher, +many.

😀

May I refer you to several hundred posts where you've attacked, nay, MOCKED, other's cultural beliefs that association football is a valid, intelligent and entertaining sporting endeavour?

ernie_lynch - Member
derekrides - Member
However more than that I believe fundamentally to live and let live

Except of course those who fall foul of Dereks Law...........those you want to gun down in the street like you would a dog.

Still, it's nice to see that you have your empathy hat on tonight Derek.

I try so hard to be good.

Resist the temptation to troll you lot.

But I fear it is temptation beyond my power to resist, I had to fall on my own can of anti troll spray last time to cut it out after 9 pages and this one is already at 4 pages and such a target rich environment.

Godless heathens abound and lots with beards, lycra and riding single speed, it's already heaven. 😆

LimboJimbo - Member

I'm still considering it TBH. I initially responded to the specific theme of the OP (please check my first post) but the discussion has widened to cover points that I genuinely don't have the answers for.

Ta for the reply.

Yes I did read your first post - hearty congrats to all of you.
Sounds like a tough little lad. 🙂

My initial instinct is to defend the right for individual belief whether I personally agree with it or not.

However, I don't believe that any belief or opinion should have the right not to be challenged, mocked or belittled.

Obviously, it looks like we're not going to agree on that one, but I really appreciate your response, and all the others too 😀

Pete.

"Challenging that belief is fine, but belittling it seems to cross the line and become attack."

I don't know the bible well; I have only read what was absolutely necessary for anyone going to a UK school in the late 70s and 80s.

I feel I know enough to say that they are fairly sure that anyone who doesn't embrace the word of god isn't going to make it into the Kingdom of heaven. Whether or not another person believes the 'Kingdom of Heaven' exists, those that believe accept that those who don't will be excluded.

I have read a little more of the Koran, but still not all of it. When it is said that the only way a believer may help an infidel is to 'take him under his protection', I honestly don't think they meant to give him a good meal and a bed then say goodbye in the morning. 🙂

I don't think it's balanced at all to claim that atheists are offensive and 'on the attack', and that religious folks are accepting of all. Belittling those who do not believe as you do is fundamental to many religions.

Belittling those who do not believe as you do is fundamental to many religions.

If you think that then I reckon you weren't paying attention at school in the late 70s and 80s when you were reading the Bible.

i`ve read the bible(cover to cover)absolute tosh made up by bearded tent dwelling loonies 😆

Ernie - its absolutely fundamental. Non believers are lessor beings than believers in the eyes of the religious. Its absolutely central to the faith otherwise there would be no point in being a believer if it did not make you a better person.

On these threads on here we have been told one cannot have morals without religion. that its both the right and the duty of the religious to attempt to convert the non religious but we have no right to challenge their superstition.

You forget to mention [i]rather intelligent[/i] bearded tent dwelling loonies pitduck. Unless of course you think there is nothing spectacular about a book still being in print 2000 years on.

ernie_lynch - Member
You forget to mention rather intelligent bearded tent dwelling loonies pitduck. Unless of course you think there is nothing spectacular about a book still being in print 2000 years on.

As against er latter day bearded tent dwelling loonies who write atb gospels?

Ernie - its absolutely fundamental. Non believers are lessor beings than believers in the eyes of the religious. Its absolutely central to the faith otherwise there would be no point in being a believer if it did not make you a better person.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there mate. You and JC appear to be as one on this. Although apparently you weren't aware.

EDIT : With regards to this btw : [i]"otherwise there would be no point in being a believer if it did not make you a better person"[/i]

(nothing spectacular about a book still being in print 2000 years) not really the world is still full of loonies 🙁

Unimpressed eh ? The world always has been, and still is, "full of loonies".

Never mind pitduck, at least you're sane - and that's what counts.

i never said that ern 😳

"otherwise there would be no point in being a believer if it did not make you a better person"

I suspect you will find that most believers are believers because they believe something - rather that they want to become a better person. Most (but not all) that I know find reconciling many of the questions raised here tough but still believe. There are lots of self help books if you just want to get better at something.

exceptions allowed of course

I remember watching American werewolf in London when I was a kid. It scared the bejeesus out of me and I had all sorts of terrible thoughts and nightmares floating around in my young mind for a loooong time and to this day, have a bit of trouble if I'm honest with walking across the Yorkshire moors in the pitch black of night.

I also went to Sunday School and was told about the consequences for non-believers.

Luckily, I'm older now and intelligent enough to realise that these were just stories.
😀

You're gonna get people like Woppit frothing at the mouth with talk like that.

Sometimes the mouth froth is so severe and all over th screne that I cun hurdli see whatt it is I''m trng t type...

TandemJeremy - Member
Ernie - its absolutely fundamental. Non believers are lessor beings than believers in the eyes of the religious. Its absolutely central to the faith otherwise there would be no point in being a believer if it did not make you a better person.

I agree with your comments there TJ [b]to the extent that they are correct[/b]. There are believers who seek to impose their views (incorrectly I agree) and look down on others (incorrectly I agree). Equally there are (1) believers who do neither, (2) non-believers who do both and (3) non-believers who do neither. It happens across religions - some Christians take the little word "the" in John 8:12 to do exactly that - amazing! And to think that religious people sent missionaries around the world to impose their views on other cultures not that long ago.

As others have said, its a pity that folk cannot live and let live. Otherwise they come across as intolerant, patronising, condescending and rude. You know the other day, some stranger who knows nothing about me, my family or beliefs or lack of them wrote:

You have successfully indoctrinated your children into a medieval superstition. Well done! However this does shed light on your general lack of rational behaviour and thought and credulous nature. More to be pitied than hated.

Extraordinary to think that such behaviour continues these days, isn't it? Like missionaries, you would have hoped it had died out long ago.

I struggle with long sentences, but:

please - keep your superstitious garbage to yourself

Why? If you don't like to read it, don't. The idea that one is supposed to keep ones widely held, mainstream and inoffensive views to oneself just to protect your little mind is quite ridiculous.

I can't see how he was trying to convert anyone or force anything on anyone. So jog on.

Non believers are lessor beings than believers in the eyes of the religious.

Have you asked them all? I don't think you know what you are talking about.

You atheists are no different to people banging on about how 29ers are stupid without ever having ridden one.

I read an interesting book on religion, which pointed out that many fundamentalist atheists are so because they can't believe that there is anyone or anything in the world more important than them ....... sound like TJ to anyone?

It also pointed out that many fundamentalist atheists justify there beliefs by highlighting the extremists in religions (such as the god hates fags lot) to justify there extreme Ego belief system.

For any atheists with an open mind the book was this one:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Case-God-religion-really/dp/1847920349

For the ignorant ones keep on as you were ...... and try not to have a stroke when these posts come up

Molgrips, that's rubbish.

I was forced to go to church and participate in organised religion for over a quarter of my life.
I'm perfectly capable of making up my own mind, thanks.

Whats a "fundamentalist atheist" and how do they differ from "atheists"

It also pointed out that many fundamentalist atheists justify there beliefs by highlighting the extremists in religions (such as the god hates fags lot) to justify there extreme Ego belief system.

In the same way that many people dislike the BNP because they are racist. It is just a little bit "core" to their faith isnt it?