[Closed] I am looking for a quote about science and dogma - anyone got a famous one?

"I do not feel obliged to believe that same God who endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect had intended for us to forgo their use."

or

"The church says the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church."

any good?
Dave

edit - or were you talking about institutional dogma, rather than religious dogma?

Outside the practice of science itself, scientists have sometimes been the greatest offenders in adhering to dogmatic ideas against all the evidence - Mary B. Hesse

[url] http://www.todayinsci.com/QuotationsCategories/D_Cat/Dogma-Quotations.htm [/url]

F*** you I won't do what you tell me

Mother: Have you done your Science homework son?
Son: Nah, it was eaten by the dog, ma.

That do?

I like this one too:

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science."

I like this one.

It's by the Hungarian psychiatrist Thomas Szasz:

When religion was strong and science weak, men mistook magic for medicine; now, when science is strong and religion weak, men mistake medicine for magic.

not really dogma related per se....

"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe."

I like that one Alfabus - very true!

oh, here is one about dogma:

"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry. There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors."

i'm on a roll now - this is much better than working

"To those seaching for truth - not the truth of dogma and darkness but the truth brought by reason, search, examination, and inquiry, discipline is required. For faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction - faith in fiction is a damnable false hope."

There is no science behind dogging

All good keep them coming. It's scientific dogma that I'm looking at. Main philosophy in stroke rehab has no scientific grounding, but people wont accept that even though it's ineffectiveness has been proven.

Main philosophy in stroke rehab has no scientific grounding, but people wont accept that even though it's ineffectiveness has been proven.

It seems to be the same in most areas. Those delivering treatments and interventions do what they're told as 'it must be right because that's what I was taught to do'

Acceptance without proof is the fundamental characteristic of Western religion, rejection without proof is the fundamental characteristic of Western science.

— Gary Zukav

Scientific research is based on the idea that everything that takes place is determined by laws of nature, and therefore this holds for the actions of people. For this reason, a research scientist will hardly be inclined to believe that events could be influenced by a prayer, ie by a wish addressed to a supernatural Being.

However, it must be admitted that our actual knowledge of these laws is only imperfect and fragmentary, so that, actually, the belief in the existence of basic all-embracing laws in Nature also rests on a sort of faith. All the same this faith has been largely justified so far by the success of scientific research.

— Albert Einstein

...dogma is getting in the way of scientific progress in stroke rehab.

I didn't realise it was such a problem in stroke rehab. 🙄

Serious academic advise:

Regardless of the subject - unless it is an [i]actual, empirical study about the conflict between dogma and technological progress[/i], [b]it would not be advisable to include such a gratuitous, polemical quote[/b] just because... what? You feel like it? Does it contribute to your overall argument? Is there some serious point you are making? Or are you just feeling clever because of the recent, interminable thread about atheism on STW?

If there is an argument you are trying to make, and you do go ahead and use some sort of quote, then you must be able to make a case of it. Or restrain your unacademic impulses, and don't put it in.

I once read a history paper where the student was discussing Cromwell, whom he obviously hated. He concluded an otherwise satisfactory paper with an combative quote from the Pogues' 'Young Ned of the Hill'. He lost marks.

EDIT: Surrounded By Zulus clarified what he was asking for in the more recent post, making everything I said completely moot.

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored

- Isaac Asimov

Old ideas don't die, only their proponents do.

Neils Bohr.

Well he said something like that.

In any case, regardless of the subject - unless it is an actual, empirical study about the conflict between dogma and technological progress, it would not be advisable to include such a gratuitous, polemical quote just because...

+1

I've always really liked this one from Albert:

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them"

You see what Saxonrider has typed take that on board even more so because by the sounds your bunging the quote in at the end to bulk it out.

"There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened."

Douglas Adams (borrowed from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy).

Einstein had plenty to say on the subject:

"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Albert Einstein

"The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing." Albert Einstein

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

This seems relevant:

"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illustion of knowledge." Daniel J. Boorstin

or, for a biking twist

"Really new trails are rarely blazed in the great academies. The confining walls of conformist dogma are too dominating. To think originally, you must go forth into the wilderness." S. Warren Carey

It's scientific dogma that I'm looking at. Main philosophy in stroke rehab has no scientific grounding, but people wont accept that even though it's ineffectiveness has been proven.

This sounds like my experience of lots of medical, engineering and science I have worked in. Loads of received wisdom, "we've always done it that way" and assumptions. Good luck.

"My karma ran into your dogma" - Dilbert (I think) of no use but I like it.
EV

This sounds like my experience of lots of medical, engineering and science I have worked in. Loads of received wisdom, "we've always done it that way" and assumptions. Good luck.

You only have to read the threads on here (or other cycling forums) about anything scientific related to cycling to see more of the same.

Whenever someone mentions "that's the way we've always done it" I'm reminded of this:

Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, hang a banana on a string and place a set of stairs under it. Before long, a monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the other monkeys with cold water. After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with the same result, and all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon the monkeys will try to prevent it.

Now, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of the other monkeys attack him. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.

Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm! Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one, then a fourth, then the fifth.

Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked. Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs or why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey. After replacing all the original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs to try for the banana. Why not? Because as far as they know that’s the way it’s always been done around here.

That's great Jon. I like that.

You have a wonderful name too.

People who like quotations love meaningless generalizations. -- Graham Greene

My favourite dogma quote.

Jay: All right, but let's say we're caught in a situation where we've got like five minutes to live, like a bomb or something is gonna go off. Would you f|## us then?
Bethany: In that highly unlikely situation? Yeah, sure.
Jay: She's a slut. Bunnnng.

I think i'll use the "The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Albert Einstein. It'll allow me to talk about a parallel with the development of physics.

"Science tells us what we can know, but what we can know is very little, and if we forget how much we cannot know we become insensitive to many things of great importance."

Bertrand Russell

How about one that's the reverse of your request i.e. science interfering with dogma?

"God does not play dice with the universe"

Also courtesy of our friend Albert.

On a separate note, my mum wrote her thesis on stroke rehab. It was called 'Stroke Rehabilitation - A Patient's Perspective'.

It was empirically based but used first hand accounts from rehab patients to get a better sense of the effectiveness of their treatment. It looked at things like social factors and how these impacted on the patients treatment. I may be able to get you a copy if you thought it useful.