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This time my invention is actually something that other people will want.
It’s for a bike.
How do I approach someone like Alpkit ,show them what it is ,without them just copying it?
Patent it.
Cake detector?
Post up here and we'll tell you if it's anygood
Go and speak to a specialist IP lawyer. They’ll guide you on how to protect your interests and exploit it commercially.
Well done for coming up with something new. & good luck..!
Patent it.
Then sit down and read all the previous patents that might apply.
scotroutes - MemberPatent it.
Then sit down and read all the previous patents that might apply.
Or, be an American and just ignore all that stuff
Why do you need someone like alpkit?
Patent/IP lawyer will be pretty costly and take time. Plus you have to have the funds to enforce it.
I remember Mr Crud saying that he didn’t patent the crud catcher as it would cost too much to chase all the infringements.
Pretend that half the profits from your sales will go to a children's charity.
It’s an Alpkit kind of thing and I really don’t have the knowledge of how to get it mass produced.
I thought of it in my sleep last night and knocked it up in an hour for £6.
Amazingly there are absolutely no down sides to it and I’ve not seen it anywhere else.
Or, be an [s]American[/s] Chinese and just ignore all that stuff
Chinese 'Range Rover Evoque'
[img] http://db.carbuzz.com/images2/500000/6000/900/506998.jp g" target="_blank">http://db.carbuzz.com/images2/500000/6000/900/506998.jp g"/> [/img]
I'll have 2 please! 1st dibs!
Pedal powered egg poacher?
So spend a day, make ten, spend a week make 100. ( you’ll get better/quicker at it before you pick up on my maths). Set up a website/Facebook and start flogging them direct.
If it’s an alpkit type thing then I’m guessing you aren’t going to make millions from it. Probably not worth the hassle of trying to protect it. Be the first, make a name for yourself. If you get copied it’s because your onto something good.
Headlights for horses?
Last week I knocked up something to improve my cycling experience in about an hour or so. Materials cost less than 50p. I put a couple of photos on Facebook and immediately had three folk wanting one 🙂
It does show that there are still ideas and concepts that seem too niche but might have some wider appeal after all.
What you need sir is an NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement). I believe the UK patent office may have a reasonably generic template one available to download.
Get a list of companies you think might be interested. Find out who the best person to approach at said company is.
Do not talk to anyone about the idea without both of you signing a copy of the NDA. You will need to put a time limit on the NDA but 20 years should suffice. If you haven't done anything with the idea in that time you probably never will.
Arrange meeting with company representative once NDA is in place and share your idea freely. Make them aware you are talking to other companies (no need to tell them who).
Be clear about what you want from any deal, and how flexible you would be. Are you looking for a royalty / job (to stay involved in the development) / cash sum for the idea.... etc
The product manager at alpkit was jay oram (jay at alpkit.com)
To be honest with you without having at least a prototype of your idea the chances of a rewarding deal are slim. You may want to consider finding a innovative friend to get the idea mocked up (under NDA of course). I would recommend paying them for helping out if possible as by you paying for the work they will have less recourse to claim the idea was theirs
I’ve got a mock up,it’s on my bike and works perfectly.
Perfect, a read up on intellectual property at the patent office website is a good idea. NDA is the way forward.
I agree with other people's sentiment that unless you have deep corporate pockets a patent may not make sense for an idea that isn't worth millions.
Busting to know what it is but I know you can't tell me....Gahhhh!!
I generally come up with ideas after a few beers that seem genius at the time.... then wake up and realise what a complete t*t I was when drunk! lol
Dragons den?
Sausage roll holder?
No point trying to patent it unless you can afford to defend it, which is unlikely. And patents aren't cheap, and cost more the longer you keep them going.
I'd try and make it myself, but it wouldn't be easy, or pay someone to develop it for me, but this would cost.
I thought of it in my sleep last night and knocked it up in an hour for £6.
[img]
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Or do it oldskool.
You have a prototype.
Patent it.
Make 20 more and give them away to people who might appreciate them and spread the word. If all goes well..
Get a local engineering firm with the right equipment to knock out a limited run, try to flog it via forums and social media, group buy discounts etc.
If it goes well, rent a shed /small industrial unit and buy some machinery so you can knock them out yourself in larger volume.
Hmmmm...
I reckon its got to be a holder/ mount for something.
First work out if it's viable. It doesn't matter how good it is, if it costs too much no one will buy it.
Estimate the cost to make it. Add a mark up.
Will people pay this for it?
How is it made? Is it moulded in plastic? If so, tooling could be many £1000's, but the parts will be pence each. Is it still viable if you include tooling costs?
If it's a self stabilising gyroscopic handle bar mounted beer holder, I'm in.
Can you post a pic up of it wrapped up? I was great at guessing my Christmas presents as a kid.:D
On a more serous note, is it so easy to make that most people will just make one at home after seeing the item on sale?
You know what skin flints bikers can be on occasion! lol
Yes you could make it but it needs a pro to make it something you'd be happy to put on your posh bike.
Is it a lightweight aero chassis that perches on the rider and bike? 😆
My parents next door neighbour invented the wind-up radio. AFAIK even though he did well out of it there was some IP issue along the way, so much so that he set up a company to help inventors not get stitched up.
Don't know any specifics, only of its existence: [url= http://www.trevorbaylisbrands.com/ ]http://www.trevorbaylisbrands.com/[/url], might be worth a look
Unlikely it’s patentable (or usefully patentable) if you just came up with it and made it with no problems in an hour.
Also likely alpkit will not be interested in signing an NDA (and certainly not a 20 yr one) for a product they have never seen or had described to them. Even if they do the definition of the confidential information is likely to be difficult without being too narrow to do anything other than prevent a direct mm perfect copy or so broad they won’t sign it.
Unless there is really loads of money in it then Niche Facebook offering to prove a market, or gentlemanly discussion with alpkit to assess interest is the way to go.
Sausage roll holder
Stupid idea. Pork pie holder on the other hand, now that is something that I could get behind!
For £6 I'd have one. Even though I've no idea what it is!!
Here's my bike related invention. You can make your own for free. I'm sure it's been done but never seen one. I give you... the 11 speed keyring!
[img][url= https://thumb.ibb.co/gsiio6/keyring.jp g" target="_blank">https://thumb.ibb.co/gsiio6/keyring.jp g"/> [/img][/url][/img]
I would speak to a patent attorney. A good one should give you sensible advice about your invention, NDAs and some commercial advice. They do this sort of thing every day. They will also often give some time for free on an initial consultation. It’s what I would do...I am one.
That’s handy!
I had a bike chain key ring when I was 14 (1988) although it was a bmx chain.
davros - MemberHere's my bike related invention. You can make your own for free. I'm sure it's been done but never seen one. I give you... the 11 speed keyring!
Damn you, I've been happy using my 7 speed locks for years, now I need a new house
Zippy..... Are we cunningly being used as your initial subliminal advertising campaign?
Getting to the point where I'll pay you £6 to know what the invention is! 😀 😉
For the cost of a patent you could get the first batch of production parts made.
If you don't know how, ask one of the many engineers on here to help.
All the patent will give you is a piece of paper with your name on you can frame and stick on a wall. It will not stop someone else copying your idea.
Unless this invention will sell in huge quantities (millions) I can't see it being worth patenting. You're best off looking for a licensing deal but how you go about that I have no idea (I assume as someone posted you'd want to have an NDA in place before you discuss but if what another poster said is true, that most companies wouldn't sign an NDA in those circumstances, then it seems a bit of a chicken and egg situation).
The more I ride with it I can't believe how simple and how well it works.
I think it has applications beyond beardy bikers.
Specialized hq aren't far from where I live. They are good at sending in the heavies.
I have shown it to someone else and they want one, so it's not a piece of crap!
Oblong I've messaged you.
A patent isn't just for enforcement, it's a legal document saying you've done something new. It's very very helpful in securing any investment. Have you noticed how often they ask about it on Dragons Den? It gives the investor protection against copies (it's their money you will be spending). Don't just base this on an anecdote from Mr Crud!
I'd recommend speaking to attorney as well. You could for instance file for a UK patent quite cheaply, then try and get some investment, if that works later extend the UK patent to cover other countries (via a PCT Application - patent person will explain)
This thread is reminding me a little of this..
Radio4 the bottom line did quite an enlightening episode on intellectual property, patents and the like. Really worth digging it out on iPlayer.
Just make it and sell it
Unless it's high value IP it's not worth it
@zippykona Where are you based? I work helping companies commercialising new ideas and there can be a lot of support available for this.
I'm in epsom.
How do you plan to exploit your idea? Either set-up a manufacturing and marketing operation yourself or simply license it to someone else to make? The first one takes lots of time and investment - how much can you afford to lose? Option 2 is lower risk, but without IP protection / patent you'll have difficulties getting a licensing agreement - but even if you're only getting pennies, it stacks up if there are volume sales . I have a number of product patents from my time as an industrial designer - one product is produced by the million, I get nothing in return!
C'mon what is it? Or hints at to what it does. I'm another for a six quid blind punt. You'll remember all us early backers when you hit the big time won't you....
Ah OK, I'm in Devon. Happy to discuss further (work have an NDA to sign)
Do a Kickstarter (and see how many Chinese manufacturers can copy you and beat you to market).
I've signed lots of NDAs for bike inventions. About half the time, I can then advise the inventor that their invention has already been invented*.
It's pretty unlikely you'll find a company to just buy or license the idea from you, so you have two choices - go into mass production yourself, or go into small batch production yourself.
First option requires lots of investment, and definitely you would want to get it patented/registered. Second option, just accept you have a limited window before (if it's a good idea) someone rips it off, so make hay while the sun shines then get out with some profit and minimal risk.
*the best was the guy who spent £20k on designs, injection mould tooling etc for his radical new invention - a license plate holder to attach to bike racks.
No idea if it's been said already, but print something out to show it's your idea, sign it and send it to yourself. Keep the unopened envelope somewhere safe. The postmark is unique and proof of date.
It's not bullet-proof but does present a decent case, and it's very cheap to do.
*the best was the guy who spent £20k on designs, injection mould tooling etc for his radical new invention - a license plate holder to attach to bike racks.
Did he work for [url= http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/halfords-floats-idea-of-number-plates-for-cyclists/022026 ]Halfords[/url]?
Last week I knocked up something to improve my cycling experience in about an hour or so. Materials cost less than 50p. I put a couple of photos on Facebook and immediately had three folk wanting one
What is it, what is it?????? ❓
Did he work for Halfords?
Funnily enough, I suggested he go look in Halfords. Never heard from him again.
What is it, what is it??????
Catheter-to-waterbottle adapter.
it only says that when it is granted. Unless what he has is earth shattering and/or he has loads of cash then he’s looking at 4-5 yrs before it gets granted, and probably for a much narrower set of claims than he thinks he has invented.A patent isn't just for enforcement, it's a legal document saying you've done something new.
It's very very helpful in securing any investment.
Sometimes, but the op hasn’t suggested a plan to seek investment.
that bears little resemblance to any real investment process! Patents can be useful, but only if it covers a very wide claims. Most patents end up very narrow, so can be easily worked around. Bear in mind the inventor thought of it one evening and made it the next day in an hour. Good luck convincing the patent examiner that your solution is truely novel (genuinely new and not just a combination of existing ideas) and inventive (not obvious to someone else who sees the same problem)
Have you noticed how often they ask about it on Dragons Den?
no it gives a granted patent holder legal recourse if someone infringes - but in many cases you can copy without infringing by designing around the claims, or by operating entirely in a different country from the granted patents (so the expense of patents is multiplied many times to gain extensive reach), or by just ignoring the patent and waiting to see how big the op (or his investors) pockets are. If the damages don’t run to six figures a case may not be worth it.
It gives the investor protection against copies (it's their money you will be spending).
and don’t just base it on the advice of patent agents who get paid by filing and arguing over patent applications for years; you can make a quick business plan on a few sheets of paper and it will soon tell you if the value is worth protecting. (To put some perspective on it, I have a patent that is over five yrs old has just got granted in the US (along with three other less exciting countries), EU still pending (along with 4 other less exciting countries) total fees to date are well over 40k. It IS worth us having this protection as it is quite broad and our technology sells for tens of thousands or more. I’ve binned three other patents over the last 20 yrs which have never brought us a penny in extra revenue.)
Don't just base this on an anecdote from Mr Crud!
Contrary to what others have said licenses can be negotiated on design rights (either registered or other) copyrights on design documents, know how, trademarks etc. A patent license is theoretically easier to sell, but that’s just cos sales people are lazy and don’t understand what they are selling!
Funnily enough, I suggested he go look in Halfords. Never heard from him again.
😆
If this was the catalyst that's set Halfords off I wouldn't actually be surprised...
Catheter-to-waterbottle adapter.
Are you taking the pi55 ❓
Have you noticed how often they ask about it on Dragons Den?
That's always funny when they do. They read the first page and look at the drawing on the cover, not the claims which are later. If anyone can understand a patent that quickly I wouldn't believe them.
Saddle mounted penis beaker?
Also likely alpkit will not be interested in signing an NDA (and certainly not a 20 yr one) for a product they have never seen or had described to them.
Yes, the NDA might not work if you have to say to them "I have this thing for bikes but can't tell you anymore, here's my NDA to sign". They will then have to take that NDA to their solicitor/legal counsel and pay them to check it, before signing and then finally getting to see what you've made.
I think the only way an NDA can work is if you can describe what the item does without revealing how it does it. Can you do that?
Yes I can do that.
Well explain it then man!!
It's a way of letting any bike carry extra water bottles or gear. Whether it's a bike without mounts, using a frame bag or you just want to carry lots and lots of water.
Yes, very good, but what about Scotroutes idea????? ❓
It's a way of letting any bike carry extra water bottles or gear. Whether it's a bike without mounts, using a frame bag or you just want to carry lots and lots of water.
https://international.camelbak.com/
😉
Hmm, my guess is a frame mounted colostomy bag holder...
possibly made out of titanium.
https://international.camelbak.com/
I knew I'd seen that somewhere else before.
Oh well back to the lottery tickets!
[quote=natrix ]Yes, very good, but what about Scotroutes idea?????
<Cough> here you go
[img] 
?oh=22f6db8ed547c40353e9b403cde55fd4&oe=5A80BA5F[/img]
here you go
WTF is that?? Looks like a piece of shaped and drilled guttering, an adjustable tri bar for a one armed rider?????
zippykona - Member
It's a way of letting any bike carry extra water bottles or gear. Whether it's a bike without mounts, using a frame bag or you just want to carry lots and lots of water.
So it’s one of two things then..
[img] 
[/img]
Or
[img] 
[/img]
Hope it goes well BTW..
I'd be interested if it's not a velcro job like the current options.
I've got 2 mounts on my current bike that I use (bottle & tool keg) and will struggle for options to replace the frame if I want to keep that setup.