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Horse is part of a criminal conspiracy so **** that guy
But no, damage to your precious car.
In complete juxtaposition with the hunter who bursts onto a road with no care for damage to their mount.
😉
Only a couple of years ago OH had almost the same experience as the OP except she had to brake hard/stop for the fox. Soon followed by the hounds amd horses. One of the riders even stopped to thank her for letting them cross. She was so shocked and speechless that she couldn't say that she hated the whole thing as much as I do. I believe she did report it but I don't know what happened. That would be Bedale/west of Yore hunt TJ.
Horses involved in criminal conspiracy. Foxes failing to complete risk assessments.
These animals are taking the bloody piss!
Nothing but, well, animals!
🙂
Hate speech? The head of the local country estate when I was younger had a dog called ****....
Speaking from some degree of experience, not all people into country sports are toffs. But most are border-line inbred. The rest are wealthy 'city' types who like to do sadistic shit that happens to be accepted due to tradition.
****….
Strange name for a dog.
^ yes. It's a little hard to roll off the tongue. Maybe it's easier for dogs to pronounce?
(The 'N' word'. I censored it myself but not enough apparently, as I got a friendly message from 'upstairs' ha ha).
I know two people who currently have dogs with that name.
And also a talented doggy actor.
Edit: Not an doggy actor at all. Well, the one in the photo is. But he was real dog apparently. Mascot of an aircraft squadron.
Popping up regularly on STW now.
I can't see what the big deal is about having to kill a fox (from the hunt's perspective)? Drag hunting can retain the tradition and satisfies animal welfare concerns. This did seem to happen for a while after the ban but appears we've now gone backwards.
Having said that, some people were prosecuted locally to me (Wales) for illegal hunting recently - but that may have been only 'cos it was reported.
I suppose it is seen as a birthright, like going to illegal raves if you live in the city..?!
Hello,
Never posted before, not brave enough!! But feel compelled to following a difficult weekend.
I own a small parcel of land in a village that has a strong hunting tradition. We have had issues in the past with the hunt chasing foxes across our land trashing our fields, fences and disturbing our horses.
Last weekend I’d had enough and complained to the hunt master and two other riders. I also phoned the police as they were chasing a fox across an open fields.
After reporting the incident to the police I received three further calls from the police advising me that I need to be extremely careful when approaching the hunt as they have a record of retaliation when confronted. We have been advised to put up cctv at home additional cctv at our yard and my wife wear a body cam whilst out riding.
The police are interviewing us both tomorrow to report our incident, the police are coming in an unmarked car and plain clothes so as not to arouse suspicion.
This is the reality of the hunt.
The people at the top don’t get their hands dirty,it’s the terrier men and followers we have to look out for..
The hunt has a very sinister side that most people never see.
We just want to live peacefully in our village with our animals we work so hard to keep.
Yep weird nasty people. Was stopped on. A disused railway line by two quads with followers. Blocked our way with rifles out and across laps.
We just want to live peacefully in our village with our animals we work so hard to keep.
<sarcasm>You just don't understand their ways, it's your fault</sarcasm>
Yep weird nasty people. Was stopped on. A disused railway line by two quads with followers. Blocked our way with rifles out and across laps.
That needs more detail. I would regularly bump into farmer or stalker at Ardeonaig or the loch shore, on occasion with a rifle across lap or fromt of quad. They were out shooting foxes, deer and on occasion corvids. And they would ask people to wait on occasion, even ask us to take a different route (particularly during stalking season). IMO, perfectly normal behaviour and no concern over a rifle being visible.
@jambourgie - so out of my entire post, slamming the abuse of animals, be it via hunting or by people eating millions of them on a daily basis, you manage to extract that i/someone would be more worried about their car rather than the animal. I thought it would be clearly obvious that the injury/death to the animal would be tragic and i didnt need to spell it out.
My point was that it would be rather inconvenient to the OP if he was sensibly going about his business only for his day to be ruined by his car being damaged/written off buy a heard of dogs or horses exploding onto a country lane.
But let me add to that for you.... plus the mental trauma of injuring or killing any of the already mentioned dogs or horses.
jeeeeeeeeeez.
That needs more detail.
FWIW I've encountered both. But I've only encountered those using intimidation to block access in lowland settings. And only after the Fox Hunting ban.
Part of it is a response to Sabs (everyone was basically already keyed up for a fight), part of it is wanting to keep the activities beyond hidden because they're not legal. And that was certainly the case where I lived in England going by what I was told by people directly involved.
There was an unmistakable difference in the manner of the encounters.
@edthecarpenter - sorry to hear this. Just reinforces what I knew about what horrible people they are.
That sounds pretty shit edthecarpenter hope you get something sorted and good to hear the police are keen to get evidence.
Popping up regularly on STW now.
I can’t see what the big deal is about having to kill a fox (from the hunt’s perspective)? Drag hunting can retain the tradition and satisfies animal welfare concerns.
Bit of a muddled one this? You're right in so much as fox populations can be controlled adequately and humanely (by shooting). But you are advocating for Drag hunting as a way to "maintain traditions", it certainly doesn't satisfy animal welfare concerns as it's simply being used as a cover to continue inhumane fox hunting with hounds, and also continues to be pretty destructive to land and property. It would be hard to think of a more inefficient way to hunt vermin, but take that away and really what's left? An even more inefficient way to exercise dogs and horses? It's not really about maintenance of tradition, it's about maintenance of privilege, participants get to be part of an in-group who don't really have to answer to anyone as they barrel about the landscape with some barely controlled dogs taking out fences and having their henchmen block access for other users...
This did seem to happen for a while after the ban but appears we’ve now gone backwards.
Having said that, some people were prosecuted locally to me (Wales) for illegal hunting recently – but that may have been only ‘cos it was reported.
Did it? Was it? Hmmm... I expect hunts in the home counties have had to be be more careful for the last decade or so because of the numbers of nearby urban crusties who can be mobilised to oppose and document their deeds. The further you get from the big smoke the more "standards slip" perhaps?... Let's not pretend hunts were ever intending to stop doing the thing that was made specifically illegal, they just worked out how to go through the motions and still tear the odd fox to bits. Hardly a shock though is it...
I suppose it is seen as a birthright, like going to illegal raves if you live in the city..?!
Welcome to the Social concerns of 1992...
As for "birthrights" I grew up in rural(ish) Dorset, and it was all my mates living in the villages would talk about, the day they'd get to sit on a horse and chase a pack of dogs about*...
(*Internet sarcasm).
Drag hunting is not the same as trail hunting. The former is legit whilst the latter relies on a scent trail that just so happens to meander past known fox populations.
I am chuckling that on the right I currently have an advert for Schoffel showing folk in country attire carrying rifle bags.
Just sorting old slide scans and came across this, so here it is. This was a foot pack we met on the road in the western lake district maybe around 1978 or 1979. It was nice to stop and say hello to the hounds, but even nicer to stop and get some fresh air having gone up and over the Hardknott/Wrynose combo facing backwards in the dickie seat of the Saab 95 which my dad loved to emulate the rally drivers in. (I'm the floppy haired non-ginger btw.)
I don't really have a problem with people who dress up and prance around on horseback for a few hours - it's pretty much what MTB'ers do!
I find setting dogs onto a fox a pretty distasteful and think drag hunting is a good compromise.
The issue seems to be that the current law not being enforced.
My comment about raves was trying to look at each side.
Is it? Since when? I can barely afford a bike, never mind a bloody 'orse 😉
That sounds pretty shit edthecarpenter hope you get something sorted and good to hear the police are keen to get evidence.
I echo Dracs comment. Glad the police are appearing to take it seriously. What they said sounds like they are talking about an organised crime gang.
part of it is wanting to keep the activities beyond hidden because they’re not legal
I’m just chuckling at the idea of people on horses in bright red jackets followed by a pack of dogs and people on quads keeping their activities hidden. They’d be well shit at hide and seek
They aren't always dressed in red coats
"FIFE FOXHOUNDS COVID-19 GUIDANCE
...... Hunting Dress – For the time being, the Hunting Office recommends that there should be no red coats on the Hunting field. Public perception is crucial at this time of national sensitivity – we therefore advise that Hunt Staff and followers should not wear red coats. Packs with larger mounted fields, those in the public eye or those with a larger anti presence, should also consider asking their followers to remain as low key as possible and continue to hunt in tweed or ratcatcher. This is an evolving situation and will be kept under constant review."
😂 tweed is basically like a cloaking device. Remember, low key on your massive horse, with your loud hounds, with more people on horses and the groupies(?).
Is that from Viz or The Daily Mash?
Some quality on here assume you aren’t on a mobile device..,
http://www.fifefoxhounds.org/etiquette/
There’s even a section on chicken lines so we have something in common.
I’m just chuckling at the idea of people on horses in bright red jackets followed by a pack of dogs and people on quads keeping their activities hidden. They’d be well shit at hide and seek
As noted above, once in Tweed they become invisible.
More seriously, in the examples I’m thinking of, once you have a field between you and them. You’ve no line of sight much of the time.
Car driver in “country roads are just for me to use “ shocker.
No different to a flock of sheep being moved on a road.
And the fact it was hounds is irrelevant, it was other road users.
#rollseyes
What a lot of complete bollocks. I live in a North Wiltshire market town, many of the nearby villages used to have regular hunt meets, and once upon a time it wasn’t uncommon to see hunts charging across fields. I often drive along narrow country lanes, some barely wide enough for a single car, with steep hills and blind corners, so there’s nothing you can lecture me about driving in the country. I can promise you, you will never suddenly come across a flock of sheep appearing at high speed over a wall or hedge bordering a narrow lane. Same goes for cattle. I have come across both at various times, and in every case you will find people at each end of the flock or herd on foot, and often on quads, making sure the animals keep moving and to keep an eye on traffic.
Your comment, son, is complete bullshit and you know it.
As noted above, once in Tweed they become invisible.
Specifically designed to blend in with the local countryside, traditional colours are created from the local plants and lichens, and it was intended to act as camouflage, as well as protection in all weathers, being wool.
One of the best ways to combat the hunt scumbags is to support your local hunt sabs. As others have said, the hunt followers can be exceptionally violent so cameras etc are a really important tool. So you can make a £ donation or give them one of your old go pro's etc.
Also, if you live in a rural area you should be able to contact sabs and get a phone number whereby you can tip the sabs off if you see the hunt out and about. A simple "hunt now at stable lane heading towards delamere" text is quite valuable and helps the sabs keep up.
And if you see a hunt in full flight, try and film it on your phone. If you can get footage of the hounds, riders and fox in pursuit then this is a really important part of any prosecution. But if filming be careful not to put yourself at risk and get on the wrong side of the thugs.
@matt_outandabout we'd heard the dogs come down a slope from our left and cross the railway heading to the river on our right. The dogs were in dense broadleaf woodland (obviously not a man-made trail/drag). We heard quads come towards us. They had rifles across front of quads ensheathed. Exchange of "morning" then a point blank "no not going this way".
And yes borders so lowland.
@countzero
Who’s lecturing you ? You’ve got nowt to do with the OP so a bit presumptuous no ?
As for the rest , yawn .
Nice personal abuse though, suits you.
Can anyone think of a single benefit to society that fox hunting brings? A single one?
One of the best ways to combat the hunt scumbags is to support your local hunt sabs.
While I quite agree with reporting hunts whenever they are breaking the law, and I accept that the majority of violence nowadays is from the hunt side, I've seen some nasty violence from "sabs"at times as well, though whether they were genuine sabs or troublemakers using it as an excuse to attack adults, kids and horses would be different matter of course.
Can anyone think of a single benefit to society that fox hunting brings? A single one?
allows you to understand who the local psychopaths are and stops them killing people? 😉
Can anyone think of a single benefit to society that fox hunting brings? A single one?
Hunting foxes? None.
Groups getting together to ride legally generates jobs and income for stables and equipment suppliers, shops and pubs they use in rural areas, usually quite a lot of charity fundraising events connected to them. A lot of top equestrian riders learnt their skills riding with hunts, if you like flag sharing medal winning.
Just a shame the dickheads can't keep it legal.
Can anyone think of a single benefit to society that fox hunting brings? A single one?
They kill foxes.
They kill foxes
How is that a benefit?
They kill foxes.
After torturing them. And not very efficiently.
Wait, are we talking about before the ban, or after? Cos after the ban, they don’t even do that, right? Cuz it would be illegal.
They kill foxes.
You seem to have misread my post, I asked about benefit to society, not benefits to chickens. Easy mistake.
Foxes are vermin and need controlled.
You asked for a benefit, I gave you one.
Easy mistake.
Society eats chickens .
Society benefits from higher chicken survival rates.
Easy mistake.
Protect your chickens properly.
They don’t need to be controlled with packs of hunting dogs. What about a riffle if you must.
Foxes are vermin and need controlled.
Why the dress up, torture and inefficiency though?
I never said using packs of dogs wearing red coats was a benefit
Someone asked for a benefit from hunting foxes, I have one.
Foxes don’t only get controlled for chickens so let’s rule that avenue out as an argument from the off. They are a vermin species that needs controlled in some areas.
Foxes are vermin and need controlled.
You do have a lovely world view.
You asked for a benefit, I gave you one.
No you made a claim which isnt supported by the evidence. Foxhunting is of limited value for controlling fox numbers.
Even the countryside alliance acknowledge this with the use of wildlife management rather than just pest control.
So you’d be happy to stop all the hunts, and replace them with (presumably more efficient) standard pest control, and all the regulation that goes with it, then? Focus on the end goal (controlling numbers) rather than the ‘how can we justify our want of killing for fun’.
No you made a claim which isnt supported by the evidence. Foxhunting is of limited value for controlling fox numbers
Rubbish. I never made any claims.
Try reading the thread correctly please.
And my world view is nothing to do with anything.
Foxes need controlled same as deer and pigeons.
Try being realistic instead of bloody minded.
So you’d be happy to stop all the hunts, and replace them with standard pest control, and all the regulation that goes with it, then?
That’s already been done.was done years ago.
some folk need to learn to read. I have not defended fox pack hunting cause I’m not getting into that discussion. I stated a benefit to hunting foxes.
Rubbish. I never made any claims.
Yes you did.
You made a statement "they kill foxes" as a direct response to a statement about what benefits fox hunting brings. That is what most people would define as a claim.
Try reading the thread correctly please.
Have you thought that just possibly it might be you to blame? As a general rule if you are needing to "correct" multiple people then chances are its you to blame.
And my world view is nothing to do with anything.
Of course.
Foxes need controlled same as deer and pigeons.
And now we get onto more claims. Completely unrelated to anything I have said though since the question is around the effectiveness or not of fox hunting.
Try being realistic instead of bloody minded.
Rather ironic.
Can anyone think of a single benefit to society that fox hunting brings? A single one?
Finely tailored jackets.
@dissonance
What the hell are you on about ?
Are you reading your posts ? Lol
You can try and twist what you like into whatever you want , makes no odds to me.
Blame lol. Taking this internet stuff a bit seriously are we ?
We have a visiting fox who kills the rats in our garden and outbuildings.
Some may say that’s ‘vermin killing vermin’ (foxes also hunt rabbits and berries). But when I look outside and at the news then it seems to me that the world’s most troublesome ‘vermin’ by far is the human.
Despite the continuing insistence of those who have historically sought to justify killing them for sport or, in the case of old fashioned ‘pest controllers’, for profit, foxes are not and have never been legally classified as ‘vermin’. https://foxproject.org.uk/foxes-and-the-law/
No you made a claim which isnt supported by the evidence. Foxhunting is of limited value for controlling fox numbers
I’m starting to see where your confusion lies.
I stated the kill foxes. That was a benefit of hunting foxes.
Your assumption as shown by your post above is that I was claiming some high efficacy of methods used, which is of course utter rubbish.
Hope that clears it up for you.
And we are saying they don’t/can’t kill enough, humanely, to be of benefit to society, vs the drawbacks.
HTH
So you need to kill higher numbers to be a benefit ?
Not if the only one killed is the one that’s been running off with your lambs.
Edited to add humanely.
And to answer, it depends what the drawbacks are, but animal cruelty, illegal activity/intimidation & destruction of property off the top of my head, they would have to be a great menace to a LOT of people (not just farmers who can’t secure their stock) for it to be of overall benefit.
Can anyone think of a single benefit to society that fox hunting brings? A single one?
Yes, it acts as a visible focal point for those forms of hunting that are little more than acts of organised animal cruelty, shifting public opinion against the activity directly and similarly inhumane methods of hunting.
I find setting dogs onto a fox a pretty distasteful and think drag hunting is a good compromise.
Drag/Trail hunting (if we must split hairs) is really just a useful cover to carry on Fox hunting...
The issue seems to be that the current law not being enforced.
It's been law for a decade and a half, hunts have been working round it since day one, non-compliance with said law is now a well polished act. "Enforcement" is pretty reliant on concerned, private citizens doing the detection. It's almost as if it's not really a policing priority, Imagine that, the police not wanting to fully enforce a law that happens to affect wealthy country dwellers and countryside alliance headbangers.
My comment about raves was trying to look at each side.
If you say so.
But perhaps it's a good proxy for fox hunting actually. Illegal raves haven't really been an issue for the last couple of decades, and strangely enough were made a priority for policing pretty rapidly when they emerged, fox hunting somehow seems to be a harder activity to actually stop.
The key differentiator is arguably the demography of the participants? Oh and the levels of animal cruelty involved.
Yeh bloody hippies leaving lsd tabs for poor rabbits to ingest.
Car driver in “country roads are just for me to use “ shocker.
No different to a flock of sheep being moved on a road.
And the fact it was hounds is irrelevant, it was other road users.
As has already been pointed out this is a plainly stupid comment
cookeaa
Full MemberDrag/Trail hunting (if we must split hairs) is really just a useful cover to carry on Fox hunting…
TBH the difference is that drag hunting was conceived as a way of hunting without a fox- yes it can be abused but it's got a legit purpose. Whereas trail hunting is for accidentally hunting foxes.
.
'humanely' always makes me chuckle..... there is no such things as 'humanely' taking an animals life.
Be it a fox being 'controlled' via a trap, the pigs you eat getting gassed to death, the chickens being hung upside down and having their throats slit, cows being electrocuted etc etc.
Rubbish
There are humane ways to kill an animal.
there is no such things as ‘humanely’ taking an animals life.
You could kill them with kindness?
TBH the difference is that drag hunting was conceived as a way of hunting without a fox- yes it can be abused but it’s got a legit purpose. Whereas trail hunting is for accidentally hunting foxes.
The definitions I am aware of (and I grant you they might not be correct) was that Drags are normally along pre-planned routes/in defined areas, they can and do include a scent trail and hounds, but are intended more to give the Horses a stretch...
While Trail hunts are a bit more "freestyle" the trail(s) being set more randomly, on the day and supposedly to give the dogs a bit of a challenge...
Both are open to abuse as the trail setter might (utterly by accident of course) splash some extra piss adjacent to a fox den or two. I'll grant you Trail hunts are probably better cover, but I'm sure a drag will accidentally result in a dead fox from time to time...
Essentially both are "training exercises" for the animals, for an activity they'll never be involved in... But somehow frequently are.
foxes also hunt rabbits and berries
My money is on Berry!
but I’m sure a drag will accidentally result in a dead fox from time to time…
Drag hunts use artifical scents and, in some cases, dont even use foxhounds. Even hunt sabs seem to think they are okay and given they are the most motivated opponents to fox hunting I go with their view.
CountZero
I can promise you, you will never suddenly come across a flock of sheep appearing at high speed over a wall or hedge bordering a narrow lane. Same goes for cattle.
Have to disagree with you on that one @CountZero. OH's car was quite severely damaged when around two hundred milk cows came charging over a wall out of the woods and she was terrified. Turns out that the cows had just been let out after wintering indoors and a gamekeeper on a shoot had left a gate open and the cows went a bit mad with their new found freedom. Also, sheep can and will regularly jump walls onto the road, usually knocking the wall down in the process.
Regarding controling fox numbers, the hunt is/was extremely inefficient. I regularly have to visit gamekeeper's premises and there is usually a hanging display of ten or more fox tails somewhere around that seems to get regularly refreshed.
cookeaa
Full MemberThe definitions I am aware of (and I grant you they might not be correct) was that Drags are normally along pre-planned routes/in defined areas, they can and do include a scent trail and hounds, but are intended more to give the Horses a stretch…
The magic words there are "pre-planned". Because if you plan out your route and you "accidentally" flush a fox every time you go out, it's a bit unsubtle. Not to mention it's easier for landowners to challenge/prevent access. Trail hunting was invented to deal with that- as admitted by the master of the foxhounds association, it's only there to provide a "smokescreen"
Drag hunting is a legitimate activity. Trail hunting is a smokescreen for killing foxes
I could see what you were saying Brads 🙂
Did I not read somewhere, possibly here tl;dr that huntmasters were leaving chicken carcasses about the land to encourage foxes to stay in that area.
Nothing would surprise me about those dicks.