[Closed] HR advice - secondments

secondment allowance is tax free and can be quite generous...

You can't be forced to do anything but your role could be made redundant if there was no work for you to do ie somebody else takes the secondment and you don't have a job left.

Travel costs etc. should come under the allowance or just do it as straight claimable expenses.

If you do go see if you can get a shared house or small flat rented it's cheaper overall and so much better than a hotel.

Finally whats the biking like 150 miles away.

PS I may have spent 10 of the last 15 years bouncing around the place for work...

You can't be forced unless its a change of contract?

Raise a grievance

If there is a pressing business need you could ultimatley be sacked, but you'd have a good case for constructive dismissal

Will they give you allowances for the extra expenses? I spent several years on a secondment in London and I made a killing on the allowances.

+1 for allowances.

Ours used to be enough to live on, which meant you could pretty much bank your salary. Apparently a bit more mean now, but still enough to make it worthwhile.

How long for?

I know that you can't just be moved like that. 10 miles? Sure, but 150? No way.

IIRC, by moving you a distance like that it gets treated as a redundancy so they have to pay you off as such (if you don't want the job). The missus' job was moved about 100 miles away and offered to her in the new location. She didn't want to move but didn't get any redundancy payout as she'd been there less than 2 years. Her longer serving colleagues did get the payout though.

If you do want it then they I'd have thought they should be paying your travel costs as well as your accommodation/moving fees.

In this situation I would as if the 5 days has to be 5 full days or 40 hours. There may be some room for flexibility.

Regarding the traveling expenses they should reimburse all reasonable expenses.

I know that you can't just be moved like that. 10 miles? Sure, but 150? No way.

My secondment I think I got travel time to and from home each week - 150miles - about 3hrs? so thats 6hrs a week off the working week. If it came to it I'd be looking to do 4 day weeks and have friday off. Have some room to maneuver, perhaps agree 3 months with an aim to resolve it.

Thanks for the replies. The allowance is £35 per day which does not even cover the additional childcare I will have to pay let alone food, travel, etc. It will cost me around £175 per week to take the secondment. Accommodation is paid for but will be sharing a 2 bed flat with another two guys who are already there.

The travel time will be unpaid and will amount to around 8 hrs round trip. This will mean I will have to leave on a Sunday afternoon and won't get home until late Friday night giving me a whole 1 1/2 days a week with my daughter and 1/2 a day a week with my wife (she works Saturdays).

There is other work to do here but I suspect if I refuse it may be the redundancy route that is taken. Been here less than 2 years so that will mean no payout.

The riding around Norwich sucks and no climbing either so I wouldn't even have those to enjoy. I might as well buy a road bike as there are no hills in Norfolk!

Thanks for the replies. The allowance is £35 per day which does not even cover the additional childcare I will have to pay let alone food, travel, etc. It will cost me around £175 per week to take the secondment. Accommodation is paid for but will be sharing a 2 bed flat with another two guys who are already there.

Oh and get some proper independant HR advice and make sure you read all the companies HR docs on travel etc.

That is a proper crap deal. As you rightly point out, it is not just about financial cost, it is family time and upheaval.

For the sake of avoiding redundancy it might be worth trying to thrash out a compromise deal, something like 3 days there, two days at home. That shows willing but stops you being shafted.

Good luck though, doesn't sound like you are in a good situation at all.

What!!!!! So it's a two bed flat, but there'll be 3 of you???

Who gets top bunk???

That really is complete crap, if that's how they treat their staff I'd be looking for a new job.

I hope you can sort things out so you don't get shafted.

"What!!!!! So it's a two bed flat, but there'll be 3 of you???"

hotbedding suppliment..... best take a sleeping bag and some flea powder....

Three blokes - two bedrooms !

My concern would be
1. two people appear to accepted something to be already in a flat if you kick off and they didnt then you are obviously a trouble maker
- what did they accept (and are they moving same distance / married etc)

2. an employer that cheap would likely choose absolute minimum severance - ie zero.

need to get existing blokes onboard that it is not OK to share bedrooms.

I would expect to expense all travel costs and get an allowance for the travel time

I am sure you will be more then happy to get in the management frame of mind when they stop treating you like Sports direct

Give ACAS a call to get some proper advice.

They are not responsible for things like your child care costs.

Nope, it's not but if it makes it unviable from a financial perspective (ie. I cannot afford the to pay the extra) due to a situation of their creating then it will impact on my response to being sent away. Plus I am pretty sure there is something in employment law surrounding the need to look after dependents and employers putting you in a position where you can't.

Oh and get some proper independant HR advice and make sure you read all the companies HR docs on travel etc.

I have read the staff handbook but it is very vague. The only HR person in the company is on holiday for the next 2 weeks. Any ideas where to go for alternative HR advice (other than here obviously)?

What!!!!! So it's a two bed flat, but there'll be 3 of you???

Who gets top bunk???

2 singles in one room and a double in the other. As the oldest and most senior if I go whoever is in the double can consider themselves evicted

I'd be looking for a new job.

Just waiting for responses from various applications

utter bilge but unfortunately as you ve been there less than 2 years you havent a leg to stand on.. my old employers used such 'secondments' to make folks leave and if they didnt they were made redundant when they finished..

Are you in a role where work on client site is contractually expected, even though you haven't to date?

If yes, then I would expect them to pay travel to client site, pay accommodation there, pay food (that's your £35 allowance), and take travelling time over and above your normal commuting time out of work hours. This is what my employer does and I do regularly but my job is expected to have work on client site.

If no, and your contract is for a role based solely at your head office then politely decline, but expect the negative consequences that may come.

I suspect your contract will have some weasel words like 'the company expects Joe Bloggs to work hours and at locations necessary to support the business'. In which case, ACAS.

I'd be questioning a lot of things there, not least your expectations and right to privacy. Shared rooms, WTF?

To be frank it sounds like they're trying to get rid of you and if not then they might as well have, if you have any sense at all you'll be looking for a new job.

Just waiting for responses from various applications

Wish you luck.

I'm not a massive fan of Unions as I sometimes think they push things too far....but this is definitely one case where there assistance would be helpful.

Secondment and moving are 2 different things.

Looks like they want you out, silly terms and conditions that very few would accept, thus you leave or they sack you it appears.

Looks like they want you out

Not so much that but I am the lowest paid engineer in the company and have been working on a PV funded project. I have been "chosen" as it gives them the biggest profit whilst moving me onto a customer funded project.

I can see the business sense but their route to getting there sucks.

Plus if they actually paid me the salary of the grade they will be charging me out as (or even paid me the same as everyone else my grade, currently I'm on about 20% less) I wouldn't be so pissed.

My alternative offer will be:-
2 days head office, 3 days client office (all 5 days on client project)
All travel expenses paid over and above the allowance
All travel time paid (or accrued and taken as time off in lieu)

I think this would be fair and would be acceptable from my perspective.

In the mean time, look for new opportunities.

At least it appears I am not being totally unreasonable. Thanks for all your responses.

That's terrible. It would be crap enough to be that far from home 5 days a week (and the travel) even staying in a proper hotel with all costs covered.

Politely decline the secondment, look for a new job elsewhere while they figure out how to get rid of you.

had a chat with someone today around this.. the travel time must be considered as part of your working hours.. as you have a base and they are asking you to work at another..

At under 2y employment you are effectively sackable anyway with little recourse. I wonder if they would even have offered this if they really wanted you out. Anyway, it seems your options are (1) to refuse and see if they sack you, (2) take the move as offered, or (3) try to negotiate something better (money/time off or whatever). I'd try the third option first unless I was desperate to leave anyway...

You are certainly not being unreasonable to think they are taking the piss!

Well, after meeting today and trying to negotiate the offer was:-

Shared accommodation
£35 per day whilst away
No travel time
Expenses for 1 trip home a month

So the outcome is they can get f***ed.

and their response? (I would be looking for another job at this point even just for options)

So the outcome is they can get f***ed.

Fair play. Use all your energy to find something else, let them boot you out and wait for Karma to take care of things.

Utter wangers. Total disregard for their staff.

Best of luck, I'm happy for you that you will stand your ground.

You've made the right choice, however tough it may feel.

How do they expect people to work professionally while being screwed over like that?

and for reference work travel away for me means on the clock from the minute I leave the front door till when I get back (obviously evenings away not included in that) and 3 meals a day + incidentals and fuel/travel costs covered. Needs to be a good reason to drop below that.

That is a really bad offer from them. I'd jump as well.

and for reference work travel away for me means on the clock from the minute I leave the front door till when I get back (obviously evenings away not included in that) and 3 meals a day + incidentals and fuel/travel costs covered. Needs to be a good reason to drop below that.

what he said.

i also get a day rate that basically covers my hourly rate for the 16 hours i would normally be at home.....plus uplift for hardship for certain countries/locations but i do 4-6 weeks at a time - and if they didnt i wouldnt be doing it.

what they have offered is a shambles.

Recent EU directives mean that travel time is considered part of your working day if you do not have a permanent office location, or you are travelling to a location that is not your permanent location.

A commute (regardless of duration) to your permanent office is not considered part of your working day.

Your working week cannot be greater than 48 hours, unless you have opted out.

From what I understand, if with travel time you are paid less than the hourly wage then you should be able to demand additional payment, however if you are paid over min wage then your company don't need to pay you more.

You mentioned that you're waiting for the HR person, don't mistake their loyalties...they are paid by the company and should make sure than no employment laws are broken (to avoid future court cases), but they won't fight your corner.

and for reference work travel away for me means on the clock from the minute I leave the front door till when I get back (obviously evenings away not included in that) and 3 meals a day + incidentals and fuel/travel costs covered. Needs to be a good reason to drop below that.

That is what I would expect and what I got in previous jobs.

I have been told that if I do split working (home office 2 days and client office 3 days) then I will not be entitled to any of whats offered above but they will pay for fuel at 20p per mile and up to 3 hrs travel per week.

It has been heavily suggested that if I don't take it there will be no work for me here implying redundancy.

Oh well, they can still get stuffed!

Fair play. Use all your energy to find something else, let them boot you out and wait for Karma to take care of things.

With the oil price and current management tactics Karma is already kicking at the door.

Hi

Long banned TJ here

I was having my occasional read of STW when bored and saw your post. The company are clearly extracting the urine.

Firstly travel time is on works time not your own if you are moving from your usual base and also counts against the working time directive ie 11 hours off between shifts max 48 hour week etc
Secondly if your contract does not say overnights away are expected they cannot enforce this – certainly not for more than the occasional night away
Thirdly all reasonable expenses must be covered including all your commute costs and any other costs incurred such as childcare
Finally they have to be “family friendly” to a basic extent and will probably have policies on this.

In your position I would simply refuse this. It’s a change of your terms and conditions and cannot be done without your consent. Dismissing you for refusing a change in contact would be unfair dismissal although given your less than 2 years service this would be hard to get although you could sue for breach of contract. You cannot be made redundant for this. You can only be sacked. Check the TUC webpage for help – its actually quite good

Unfortunately I think what is actually happening here is you are being managed out before your 2 years are up. I think your best bet is to get proper legal advice from either your union or a experienced employment lawyer. Try your local law centre for help

I think the best outcome for you is likely to be a compromise agreement where they pay you to shut up and go away. You should be looking at something like 6 months wages for this.

Another line would be hang on untill you have completed two years and then resign and sue for constructive dismissal. High probability you would win

1) get proper legal advice – I am an ex union rep but not up to date

2) refuse the transfer ( it is not a secondment) in writing giving your reasons all laid out carefully after you have taken legal advice

3) even if they insist you still keep on turning up at your usual place of work at your usual time – do not say “ I’ll try it for a month / 3 days a week” as this would weaken your position.

4) Prepare to be threatened with the sack and counter this with a threat to sue for breach of contract

5) Accept a compromise agreement to walk away

Hi TJ, thanks for circumventing the ban hammer to provide detailed advice.

My plan very much follows your advice in that providing a well reasoned refusal, preparing for the consequences and standing my ground regarding payoffs or threatening court action if dismissed as insinuated.

Out of interest, whats the opinion on management calling up nurseries in the area to confirm my childcare costs, getting quotes and suggesting I move to a cheaper one they have found so I can reduce my childcare burden thus making the secondment more attractive?
Personally, I think it is completely out of order but nothing surprises me with this lot after the last week!

"whats the opinion on management calling up nurseries in the area to confirm my childcare costs, getting quotes and suggesting I move to a cheaper one"

out of order - doesn't make the secondment more attractive , it makes working for that lot less attractive....

I'd ask them if they would move their kids to a new nursery so they could spend 4 nights a week away from home sharing a room with someone. I'd expect they would say no.

Stick to your guns, I second staff out but only where I think it will be beneficial, isn't a burden and is discussed and agreed upfront. I also don't people into roles I wouldn't do myself. Look for another job, how you care for your children has no relevance to your employer.

"whats the opinion on management calling up nurseries in the area to confirm my childcare costs, getting quotes and suggesting I move to a cheaper one"

Out of interest, whats the opinion on management calling up nurseries in the area to confirm my childcare costs, getting quotes and suggesting I move to a cheaper one they have found so I can reduce my childcare burden thus making the secondment more attractive?

Are they having a laugh? It's not up to your employer to decide where your kids spend their day. That really is laughable.

[quote=jonm81 ]Out of interest, whats the opinion on management calling up nurseries in the area to confirm my childcare costs, getting quotes and suggesting I move to a cheaper one they have found so I can reduce my childcare burden thus making the secondment more attractive?

😯

I doubt there's anything illegal about them doing that, though it does make me wonder whether if you give them enough rope they'll hang themselves and do something which is and so give you leverage (particularly if HR is away - as mentioned above, I'm sure they'd have advised against doing that).

<my opinion, not TJ's>

If you want to stay working with them you'll need to negotiate better.

Although is it an 'Indian' based consultancy? Only ask as I've seen these kinda thoughts before, ie not understanding UK/European/US 'rules' and believe that we're all 'replaceable'.

I'd be looking for 45ppm for all travel, ie every weekly, and a 4 days in 5 type agreement (arrive Monday mid-morning, leave Friday mid-afternoon. The £35per day is plenty and will cover breakfast/lunch/dinner. As for sharing, fine but I'd want my own room and a cleaner engaged.

Unfortunately your childcare costs etc are your problem, but I'd still ask for an allowance to help (this will be taxed though).

I'd be ever so politely telling them to get ****ed and if the nursery has given out any personal information they'd be getting some grief as well.

Out of interest, whats the opinion on management calling up nurseries in the area to confirm my childcare costs, getting quotes and suggesting I move to a cheaper one they have found so I can reduce my childcare burden thus making the secondment more attractive?
Personally, I think it is completely out of order but nothing surprises me with this lot after the last week!

Jesus!
So not only would Daddy not be there to read them a bedtime story they'd have to make new friends and change their routine too. Not fair on them or your missus.
Have they actually done/threatened this? Turds of the first order if they have. I thought this sort of management went out in the 80s.

Wow

Sounds like you work for an absolute bunch of arseholes.

You have my sympathy

Out of interest, what line of work are you in?

If you are under 2 years and they don't need a reason to sack you, as some suggest, then why would they try and manage you out? Just let you go. Also, as the manager of an ICT Dept., there is no way that I would want an unhappy employee on a client site. It sounds to me that the contract is not progressing how they expected and putting in a cheaper resource in shared accommodation may well turn things around without impacting profits. Either way, TJ's advice on this would be well heeded.

[i]and believe that we're all 'replaceable'.[/i]

We are.

[i]Unfortunately your childcare costs etc are your problem[/i]

Even if the only reason that additional childcare is required is the 'secondment'?

as above what do you do, and is the company uk based or from some other country with different values towards its workforce.

I'm really intrigued as to whether the employers are UK based*, their attitude is shocking. Seems a clear attempt to make you walk.

Or constructive dismissal, as a lawyer might like to think of it?

[*Obviously, we all really want you to name and shame, but we know that you can't}

Does is start with a W and end with an O?

You might want to consider the significance here of how expecting you to stay away from home, travel in your own time and demanding you move your kids child care in order to accommodate their requests might amount to indirect sex discrimination - have any women been asked to do the same?

I certainly wouldn't be politely telling them to get ****ed. I would be directly and rudely telling them to get ****ed in precisely those terms.

I am a project engineer working in Oil and Gas but as of this week transitioning back in to the defence industry which I recently left to take this job. This is a small UK consultancy.

if you give them enough rope they'll hang themselves and do something which is and so give you leverage

That is my thinking at the moment

So not only would Daddy not be there to read them a bedtime story they'd have to make new friends and change their routine too. Not fair on them or your missus.
Have they actually done/threatened this? Turds of the first order if they have.

Exactly, expecting my wife to deal with a 15 month old child on her own 5 days a week is unacceptable to me. Yes they have done this and I have the screen shots of the instant messages to prove it.

Sounds like you work for an absolute bunch of arseholes.

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner!

why would they try and manage you out

I don't think they are trying to manage me out. This is a project management role and I am the only person there with proven project management experience of large complex projects. Plus they will be charging me out as a senior engineer but are paying me slightly higher than a graduate so the profits will be higher helping the none to good bottom line.

Does is start with a W and end with an O?

Nope

You might want to consider the significance here of how expecting you to stay away from home, travel in your own time and demanding you move your kids child care in order to accommodate their requests might amount to indirect sex discrimination - have any women been asked to do the same?

That thought has crossed my mind and is part of the giving them rope to hang themselves strategy. I am expecting the next suggestion to be my wife giving up work to be a full time housewife.

I'm afraid that at under 2y employent unless they really **** up somehow (sex discrimination is possible but a long shot) you have next to no chance of then "hanging themselves" to any significant degree. Best to just refuse the secondment and hope to find a new job more quickly than they manage to sack you. If you are really close to 2y it might be worth trying to hang on until then but even if you might "win" life's too short to waste it on arseholes. TJ's advice is good of course, his departure was a sad loss to the STW community.

Despite what you still believe that youre important to the company, youre not, and quite a few of have pointed it out theyre doing their best to alienate you, like sending you away, paying no traveling expences, telling you to share a flat, ring child care providors to look for cheaper prices etc.

And all this when youve less than 2 years service with the company, threyre pushing till you resign, and it costs them nothing, and in the nxt few days they will have more little straws to load your shoulders with, till you finally leave.

This is a project management role and I am the only person there with proven project management experience of large complex projects.

What are the consequences of them failing to deliver the project on time, and would that definitely happen if you didn't go? I.e, if they had to employ someone else competent quickly, is that possible or would there be serious risk.

If there are serious consequences and you aren't easily replaceable (lots of specialist knowledge) I think you should continue to negotiate until you're happy. You're in a strong position. Keep looking for a new job.

If limited consequences and easy to replace within a few weeks, refuse and put maximum effort into job hunting.

Either way, their behaviour isn't what I'd expect from a good employer and your best long term future would be away from them.

Agree with project.

I'd roll with it to the extent you can while you find another job/go contracting. Unless you can afford the gap, in which case walk.

Remember, if they sack you there's no reference. Better to walk with head held high and reference in pocket.

Good luck.

This sounds utterly horrible and I just wanted to sympathise and concur with much of the advice above, not least that from the much missed TJ who also gave me useful words at a point in time when I needed them.

It never ceases to amaze me how employers think it's Ok to screw people into the ground. Family first always, do what's best for you & them, exit under your terms with your sense of self intact.

Project, I have no illusions that I am important to them nor that I cannot be replaced. Having said that this has come completely out of the blue and their offer is the standard they offer anyone who goes on secondment (such as the two guys already up there). Whilst the offer suits them as they are young, single and have no commitments, what they have offered is not suitable for my circumstances hence my rejecting it.

If I do not go the secondment will be offered to another company and 6-24 months of work will go to a competitor. It starts next week so not time for my employer to find a replacement to go.

If I do not go the secondment will be offered to another company and 6-24 months of work will go to a competitor. It starts next week so not time for my employer to find a replacement to go.

Expensive lesson for your employer to learn. Treating your staff reasonably can mean the difference between losing and making money.

Im really interested as to who the employer actually is as well as the best possible outcome for the OP of course.

If I do not go the secondment will be offered to another company and 6-24 months of work will go to a competitor. It starts next week so not time for my employer to find a replacement to go.

Sounds like you have the perfect bargaining position to just turn around and say "look, if you want me to do this, then you need to take a step back and [u]seriously[/u] reconsider what you are offering me to make it worthwhile, not least due to the effect on my wife and kids" and put the ball entirely back in their court.

[quote=project ]And all this when youve less than 2 years service with the company, threyre pushing till you resign, and it costs them nothing, and in the nxt few days they will have more little straws to load your shoulders with, till you finally leave.

Hanlon's razor needs to be applied here - as mentioned before, if they wanted to get rid of him with less than 2 years service they could just sack him.

[quote=jonm81 ]If I do not go the secondment will be offered to another company and 6-24 months of work will go to a competitor. It starts next week so not time for my employer to find a replacement to go.

So you actually have a [b]lot[/b] more leverage than you've previously suggested!

This is a project management role and I am the only person there with proven project management experience of large complex projects.

Right then, slightly different advice at this point but...

On the kids and nursery thing about 10 years ago I'd have kicked off big style at something like this, these days I get the most senior person in a room and explain that perhaps their ideas on being helpful are not that clever.

You should know or be able to get right up to speed with the financials of the project. What is in the budget for travel?

If a project is so screwed that it needs a 5 day a week on site PM then it's buggered. Either that or you are working with the old guard who just want to see/touch something to prove it's real.

I've been in this one before, was asked to do 5 days a week and it was expected. further questioning and it was essential. So I got the hire car and hotels booked and went down there. After 2 weeks got to the point where people were sick of me being there waiting for the "essential"information or meetings that never were. They had my mobile number I went down Tuesday mornings and came back Thursday night. Again on real expenses.

OP, have you re-read your contract? I'm seeing a few things here that suggest that working away from home may have been expected. You work for a consultancy, so all work is expected to be client work. You've worked away from home before, mentioned your wife had to look after your kids on evenings.

I'm not saying what your company is doing is right, far from it, but you may want to be careful when looking at route like constructive dismissal. And I don't disagree with a lot of the advice you've been given, but some of it is very much assuming you have a contract that says you work for one company in one place all the time.

To me, it sounds like pretty standard request to work away from home on a client project. I do this all the time for one of the big IT consultancies. It's expected for me, and written into my contract that I'm expected to be fully mobile. Stuff like childcare is no concern of the company ever. But costs to travel to client site, four star hotel nearby, evening meals and reasonable sundries expensed are all taken care of. Travel time to site, over and above normal commute to base office is taken out of client time. This applies to all 260,000 consultants of all types from junior developer to the most senior CTOs.

If I refused to do this, I'd be out on my ear as it's my job.

If a project is so screwed that it needs a 5 day a week on site PM then it's buggered. Either that or you are working with the old guard who just want to see/touch something to prove it's real.

Not necessarily. I've been on a projects where hundreds of staff are based on client sites. Multiple PMs included. It's the most cost effective way of running a large project often.

I'd roll with it to the extent you can while you find another job/go contracting. Unless you can afford the gap, in which case walk.

I'd expect in the contracting world the requirement to travel to a job be even higher. Certainly in IT this is the case if you want good roles.

2) refuse the transfer ( it is not a secondment) in writing giving your reasons all laid out carefully after you have taken legal advice

It may not be either a secondment or a transfer, it may just be regular client site work.

4) Prepare to be threatened with the sack and counter this with a threat to sue for breach of contract

It may very well not be a breach of contract either.

Over the years of doing consultancy I've work with consultants who haven't gone into client facing roles with their eyes open and been 'surprised' when they've been asked to work somewhere other than their base office. Please, re-check your contract.

OP, have you re-read your contract? I'm seeing a few things here that suggest that working away from home may have been expected. You work for a consultancy, so all work is expected to be client work. You've worked away from home before, mentioned your wife had to look after your kids on evenings.

The exact wording "Your place of work is [i]address of head office[/i]. You will be expected to travel to meet the requirements of your role, however, you will not be expected to work away for more than 1 week at a time"

My role is then described as office based at the head office address. although we are a consultancy all work is carried out in our offices except secondments or the odd day or two at a client site.

This is definitely a secondment and not working at a client site.

I have already worked over 2 months out of the last year away from home in this job but the terms for that work were different.

Im really interested as to who the employer actually is as well as the best possible outcome for the OP of course.

Depending on how the conversation goes this morning you may well find out.

old guard who just want to see/touch something to prove it's real.

I think this is exactly the reasoning for being at client site 5 days a week. There is nothing that can't be done via phone or video conferencing rather than on the clients site especially since I have offered to be there 3 days a week.

The exact wording "Your place of work is address of head office. You will be expected to travel to meet the requirements of your role, however, you will not be expected to work away for more than 1 week at a time"

My role is then described as office based at the head office address. although we are a consultancy all work is carried out in our offices except secondments or the odd day or two at a client site.

This is definitely a secondment and not working at a client site.

Fair enough, thanks for that. Good luck.

But costs to travel to client site, four star hotel nearby, evening meals and reasonable sundries expensed are all taken care of. Travel time to site, over and above normal commute to base office is taken out of client time. This applies to all 260,000 consultants of all types from junior developer to the most senior CTOs.

what wreaker said.

what has been offered is not a typical deal for whats expected.

its a typical deal for a uni leaver exploitation work experiance......

Its not a deal for an employee you wish to retain (unless such was written into his contract and renumeration for such built into his basic pay)

As said previously, the OP needs to just negotiate a better deal.

Like many on here I've spent weeks/months working away (over the last 20-25 years), but have always ensured I'm not 'out of pocket' (by hook or by crook 😉 ). Standard company expenses should cover his costs of travel/away, in fact lots of people still make a profit from them.

And his contract saying 'away for only a week at a time' should just mean that he can expense each weeks' travel.

IMO the OP needs to accept that this is the world and learn to work with it, or find another job. Sorry.

"And his contract saying 'away for only a week at a time' should just mean that he can expense each weeks' travel."

Meanwhile his boss says he is allowed 1 trip a month home.....

Well, I have withdrawn from the secondment on the grounds of financial loss, loss of family and private life and lack of ability to properly care for dependents whilst away. No negotiation was entertained by management. I am continuing to work on the project I was already on "for the time being". As such I will not be naming and shaming as much as I would like to.

I will, however, be moving on as soon as possible.

Thanks for all the advice given.

IMO the OP needs to accept that this is the world and learn to work with it, or find another job. Sorry.

And the race to the bottom continues, hurrah!

OP - sounds like you made the right call, if it's really that big a deal I suspect they'll be back to negotiate, if they're prepared to let it go then that's their loss.

IMO the OP needs to accept that this is the world and learn to work with it, or find another job. Sorry.

If I do not go the secondment will be offered to another company and 6-24 months of work will go to a competitor. It starts next week so not time for my employer to find a replacement to go.

Get yourself incorporated and get bidding.

And the race to the bottom continues, hurrah!

Exactly.

OP, you made the right decision. The company doesn't mind charging the client top dollar, but doesn't want to share the wealth....screw em.

A firm is only as good as the people that work for them.

@jonm81 - judging by the language you use is the head office you work in any where near Box Hill by any chance? And given the 150 miles does the secondment happen to be for an organisation which shares a name and history with the makers of fancy cars (in fact do both organisations?).