[Closed] How's this gym workout for weight loss?

For example, are you unable to physically push the pedals hard enough (a symptom of this may be that you can ride a 20min effort at almost the same speed as a 3 min effort)
Or maybe you are getting out of breath too quickly?
Or you can make good power, but you are unable to sustain it?

No, none of those things. I am happy climbing, I cope with it well, I do some long rides with big climbs in and enjoy them all, likewise I smash out the short sharp ones and enjoy those too. My evidence for being slow is when I (used to) race. My power output is good (I used to train with a powertap), my power to weight ratio is not. No-one's going to reach their potential with 8kg extra fat, are they?

I know I can lose weight if I ride 10 hours of base training a week, but I can't do that any more given I have a family and I work away. So the question is how best to use the time I do have.

I could try and gain power, but I have found that if I do that I end up needing to eat more and I maintain weight. So I'm simply trying somethign new and seeing if it helps my weight, my biking and/or I enjoy it.

I achieved a threshold power* of about 330W whilst training previously. I'd heard suggested that to win a Sport race you'd need a power to weight ratio of 4.2 w/kg. So to get there I could either bring threshold power up to 370W, or lose 10kg. The latter should be much easier than the former, shouldn't it?

* by which I mean 1/2 hour or 10 mile pace

I achieved a threshold power of about 330W whilst training previously. I'd heard suggested that to win a Sport race you'd need a power to weight ratio of 4.2 w/kg. So to get there I could either bring threshold power up to 370W, or lose 10kg. The latter should be much easier than the former, shouldn't it?

I know I can lose weight if I ride 10 hours of base training a week, but I can't do that any more given I have a family and I work away. So the question is how best to use the time I do have.

This covers it pretty much:

The Southern Yeti - Member
Then if it's purely weight loss go for maximal calorie burning HIIT/circuit workouts.
Maximise the time you spend in the gym by doing as little rest as possible. Chuck a 250m sprint on the rower into the circuit to keep your HR as high as possible and try not to lift so much weight your muscles ache after. Key to the weight loss will be total volume of work each week not smashing your legs into hypotrophy.

Doesn't need to have any special workouts, although i'd avoid things that isolate small muscles like biceps/triceps.
Do your exercises in a circuit moving from muscle group to muscle group with minimal rest and keep the HR up. In a busy gym with queues for popular equipment it may be more practical to look at alternative floorwork exercises that cover the same muscle groups.

Good advice, thanks.

One of the biggest faffs so far has been finding and fitting different combinations of weights to the bar for the original workout I was given. I'd much rather jsut leave it at a set weight.

I'd much rather jsut leave it at a set weight.

unfortunatley your legs are bigger than your arms.

I mean I don't want to change weights between sets, not between exercises.

I mean I don't want to change weights between sets, not between exercises.

I see.

5x5 is a great work out for cyclists. add pull ups fo a vertical pull.

I have found that adding weight every workout isn't ideal for hard bike training too. I'm planning on less weight training as i up the bike training (same weights but less progression and 1 session per week rather than 3)

I used to be well over 150kg, and whilst cycling was great for losing weight the quickest and most efficient fat loss period I had was when I was lifting weights seriously, mainly following a routine similar to the Stronglifts 5x5. I was eating 4,000 to 4,500 calories a day and still losing weight.

I put on a lot of muscle, particularly quads and hamstrings, but it was too much muscle to carry around for cycling! The legs were often aching too, so it made cycling a bit of a chore at times.

After breaking my arm it stopped the lifting for a couple of years, but I'm now trying to find the right balance between still being able to lift but not carrying too much weight for cycling. As above doing 5x5 but not pushing the weight upwards week on week would possibly work as a decent balance. If you are MTBing lifting weights makes arm pump a thing of the past too.

My experience of personal trainers is mixed, I know a couple from school who are great, well trained and offer sensible advice. The ones that work at my local gym are useless and offer some off advice - one told me I was squatting too deep when I was just at parallel.

I have found that adding weight every workout isn't ideal for hard bike training too.

Seem to be discovering that. I said that my legs didn't ache after doing the big deadlift/squat session on Thursday, which is true. However they were totally shredded on the bike Saturday and Sunday, and the commute was hard work.

And I'm bloody starving and feel like I could eat an entire Pret a Manger.

I have decided I love deadlifting. Really satisfying and actually gives a bit of an endorphin high which seems hard to come by for me these days. Going for 5x5 as suggested.

80kg deadlift, 70kg squat, but it still really hurts my shoulders.

Are you setting up correctly for the squat? Read this:

If you get your shoulders arranged right they shouldn't hurt unless you're skinny. There's more technique than most think!

Whilst googling I found his deadlift technique instructions - read this too (page 14 onwards):

The whole book is good but it's a literally weighty tome and can be a bit overwhelming!

I read a lot about deadlifting, I'm quite happy with my technique as I have to put a lot of power in and nothing feels bad. As long as I remember to straighten up at the end to relax my back.

First time I tried the bar for squatting I couldn't do it at all, but this time not so bad. I find it hard to get my hands/arms far back enough, due to shoulder inflexibility.

Those instructions look good, will try and work on it next time.

There's a lot of range of movement required in the lifts - I have a faulty ankle due to a bad break which was pinned back together and my right shoulder is a bit weird from years of bass playing (wouldn't be so bad if I'd used a pick!)

Yoga helps me a lot - and I've found that my recent habit of sitting cross-legged to meditate has helped with the squat! Definitely find some exercises that increase mobility (I hesitate to call them stretches because that's not really the best way to approach them...)

I must start yoga or pilates or something, my upper body is stiff as hell.

Just try some of Abi's routines on Pinkbike.

I also do Scaravelli inspired yoga but that's rather niche! 😉

I find it hard to get my hands/arms far back enough, due to shoulder inflexibility.

Does your gym have a safety bar for squatting? If so try using that. Much easier hand position

Safety bar? The one on runners that just slides up and down?

So is the weight coming off?

[quote=molgrips ]Safety bar? The one on runners that just slides up and down?

Nope. One of these. Give a much more neutral arm position.

[img] [/img]

So is the weight coming off?

Of course not 🙂

(yet)

@boardinbob haven't seen one of those - will have another look.

I'm confused, does the OP want to lose weight or be leaner?

Well no, I don't care about how I look (see Capt America pictures for evidence). I just want to loose fat to cycle better. I didn't say 'lighter' because I want to keep cycling power.

With that in mind, manage your diet and use your exercise time to train on the bike.

I must start yoga or pilates or something, my upper body is stiff as hell.

Yoga, pilates, weights... stuff I'd love to have time to do but given limited time for exercise as I have to fit around job and family (and STW) time I'm pretty sure that substituting on bike training time for these activities would be to the detriment of making me faster, leaner, or lighter.

However if you enjoy it and want variety then crack on.

I'm confused, does the OP want to lose weight or be leaner?

Lose weight.

With that in mind, manage your diet and use your exercise time to train on the bike.

So you don't agree with all the advice about weight training to lose weight?

I know I can lose weight if I ride 10 hours a week. But if I don't have 10 hours, does weight training make sense? Interval training on the bike does not help me lose weight, for whatever reason.

The gym can be done late when the kids are in bed, or I can go for an hour at lunchtime if I'm home, whereas an hour's biking doesn't seem to do much - plus the extra 30 mins spent getting ready and cleaning the bike. So it fits in time-wise.

The idea was that changing to something different would help. I seem to have adapted to doing the riding I do, so not much changes.

It's not just about weight loss though, is it?

The aim is to get faster on the bike and I reckon the best way to do that is to ride your bike. You can do gym work and maybe lose weight but then you won't have been riding your bike as much. There's more to being quick than just power and weight.

Interval training on the bike does not help me lose weight, for whatever reason.

I'd be wondering what that reason is. Sounds like you've now been doing weights and you're still not losing weight, for whatever reason. Hmmm.

Sounds like you've now been doing weights and you're still not losing weight, for whatever reason

I haven't done it long or consistently enough for it to have an effect. I ended up going away with work just after I got this programme, so I didn't have the facilities to do the programme so I just sort of made it up a bit - then I was ill, etc etc.

I'll give 5x5 a chnace and do it properly, see how I feel. And I'll ride.

You can do gym work and maybe lose weight but then you won't have been riding your bike as much

I've been riding for long enough that I know I can pick up bike fitness easily enough. But losing weight is pretty difficult, so I'm focusing on this. A large part of the problem in the past has been focusing on bike fitness, training hard there, which means I have to eat more to fuel the hard training and the weight stays the same. Currently planning on more low intensity cycling and the weights, will see how I get on.

Be interesting to see how you get on. I can't see why, if you don't lose weight because you eat more when training hard on the bike, that the same won't happen with weight training.

TBH it just sounds like you're just eating too much 🙂

I've started doing a fasted commute 3 times a week again and have lost 5-6lbs in a fortnight.

Eschew the recovery can of coke and you'll be lighter in no time.

I did fasting commutes. Didn't lose weight. Ate little. Endurance improved a lot, legs stayed incredibly tired all the time.

Are you sure you didn't have an overactive H2M reflex at the same time?

Yes, I am, for that period.

BF seems to be lower at around 18%, it was 22% a while back.

Quite enjoying Stronglifts 5x5.

It started me off at 42.5kg squat a month ago which was very easy, now on 65kg squat and 55kg for the bench press, both still reasonably easy. Looking slightly slimmer but weigh the same.

Feel like a significant improvement in leg power on the bike. 5 hour mountain slog last weekend and finished strongly despite being incredibly hungry.

I'm sure you all care.

Up to 82.5kg squat now - it's getting to be a proper effort. 37.5kg overhead press is hard though and I may have my first failure tonight at 40kg.

Still weigh the same and subcutaneous fat also doesn't seem to have gone down much visibly but I somehow look slightly less pot-bellied. Definitely buliding muscle under the fat though.

I care Molly. Keep it up.

I'm only posting to keep myself honest 🙂 May do another selfie soon.

I care, too. In fact I was going to bump it to enquire but thought you'd probably take it the wrong way.

My squat is the same weight (with bar) and yeah, quite hard work to stop it becoming a Good Morning. Bench is up but the overhead is seated so although I'm lifting the same my standing was 10kg more before surgery last year. Deadlift I had to dial back as an old upper chest injury started up again. Physio's helped but I'm only upping the weight by 2.5kg to try and get back to the 140 before the recent strain.

I don't know about you but I'm eating shit loads (clean) and not suffering like I did when I tried it in calorie deficit. Fat loss is slow but as you write, muscle makes its way through. This week (though probably next week or the week after 🙂 ) I'll start the hill sprints and box jumps but the mesh makes itself known whenever I move too fast so that's my excuse and definitely not the 10 minutes of vomit inducing struggle.

Pehaps an STW Shirt-Off is in order.*

* JK

Edit : I'm only doing 3x5 on the squat, too, not 5x5 as on the presses and row. I'm 49 so that's my excuse. I have a love/hate relationship with squats even though I'm short and gravity is on my side.

I'm not finding that the lifting makes me eat more. If anything less, because they replace a run or a bike ride which, although I can manage them because I'm so used to it, they do take more out of my system that it then demands be put back in. I'm only doing 2 workouts a week instead of three, because I'm still running and biking.

The problem during April when I settled into 5x5 was that due to the great weaather I was doing lots of riding at the weekends. So I'd still have slightly sore legs come Tuesday which made the sqauts hard. Didn't do so much riding the last few weeks and the squats are easier.

I originally decided to eat moderate carbs - small bits of pasta, wholemeal bread etc - whilst doing this and felt fine, but now I am seeing what happens if I run a significant calorie deficit. But the strength gains seem to be really helping on the bike, so maybe it's not worth trying to diet. If I can sqaut 1.5x body weight at the end of the summer, it should generate a load more power on the bike, shouldn't it?

I have a love/hate relationship with squats

I like them. Prefer deadlifts but the Stronglifts guy doesn't so I don't do many 🙂

May do another selfie soon.

Who's currently in possession of the STW 'sensual sock'?

This is interesting:

https://breakingmuscle.com/learn/why-serious-cyclists-should-consider-strength-training

Didn't do so much riding the last few weeks and the squats are easier.

I found it difficult to keep the weight increase going when I combined cycling with weights. The 10 - 15 mins of hill sprints and box jumps straight after the weights session is much more manageable for me. Definitely wouldn't consider riding on a rest day but I'm lifting for strength and body recomposition at the moment hence the calorie surplus - it's deliberate rather than forced through lifting. Better for recovery, too.

I am seeing what happens if I run a significant calorie deficit.

I tried that late last year - got down to 800kcal before injuries and tendon pain started and the fat fell away in no time. Looked good, tho...

Also, last year when I was still cycling on the odd occasion, I hooked up with a friend for a local ride which always starts with bloody Stocking Lane - a bastard of a climb when cold - but to my surprise I killed it without any issues on the leg muscles, suffering only in the lung department.

Heavy squats are good for cycling, for sure.

The Stronglifts app gave me really light weights to start with, so I'm only now beginning to feel like it's a workout. But whilst my legs are pushing hard they don't really get tired; my arms do though. But it keeps on ramping up so it'll happen 🙂

Re tendon pain.. I found that with the squatting my ITB pain has come back on the run the following day.

Just had a salad for lunch...

With chicken, right?

Greek yogurt with raspberries and peanut butter (Sunpat for good oils) and a squirt of runny honey about to be necked here.

No, barbecue burnt ends salad bowl from Subway. Not that great.. I should go to Sainsbury's and get a bag of decent salad and add my own chicken.

Then a paeleo bar as I thought effectively no calories was not quite enough for lunch, some thing made from dates and coconut.

barbecue burnt ends

That's a new one on me, had to Google it. Images make it look pretty rank, tbh.

🙂

This is interesting:

https://breakingmuscle.com/learn/why-serious-cyclists-should-consider-strength-training

Good link.
Not sure it applies the same to everyone, as i'd expect most are limited far more by CV fitness than leg strength. For really skinny folk like me, i'm convinced there's huge gains to be made from strength work.

However, I couldn't get squatting to work for me, I found it left me with too much muscle soreness, and really badly compromised the quality of on the bike work.
I've found on the bike strength work to be a compromise that has worked well.

Sounds like you tried to lift too much and at the wrong time in the season.

Strength work for cycling is about muscle recruitment rather than muscle growth.

And Molly! You shouldn't even set foot in Subway, shame on you.

That's a new one on me, had to Google it. Images make it look pretty rank, tbh.

It's good. It's just roast beef with a bit of barbecue flavour.

I found it left me with too much muscle soreness, and really badly compromised the quality of on the bike work

This is an interesting topic actually. Some cyclist on the internet tried a strength programme to see if it'd give him sprint power, and all it did was make him tired. But he was already a skinny bugger and admitted he was all endurance and no power to begin with.

OTOH I've always been a sprinter and I reckon it's workng for me quite well. So I think that some people respond well to weights and some don't.

i'd expect most are limited far more by CV fitness than leg strength

Not sure about 'most'. Especially after having done sprint intervals on foot, the pain in my legs is what determines my max on climbs, not my breathing.

And Molly! You shouldn't even set foot in Subway, shame on you.

Why?

Sounds like you tried to lift too much and at the wrong time in the season.

Been a while, but iirc, 5x8 @ 60/90/100/110/115% BW
Felt ok lifting every 3rd day, and making strength gains, but struggled to even manage decent z2 rides on non lifting days.

Been a while, but iirc, 5x8 @ 60/90/100/110/115% BW

that's where you started to or worked up to?

That sounds big.

Stronglifts started me on 50% bw or near enough, and I maintained the cycling which contributes to the overall leg fatigue and the point at which I'll fail as I ramp up the weight. Without cycling I'd be going further with the weights, so it's all going to balance out.

that's where you started to or worked up to?

It's irrelevant if it was stifling on the bike work.

Warm up at 60% x 12
Transition set at 100% x 8
Max strength set att 120% x 3

Should be fine.

Pity you're not keen on swimming, Molgrips. An hour in a pool gets through a lot of calories and is excellent non-traumatic exercise that will make you more rather than less supple. The only problem is that you get out of the water feeling ravenous so make sure you have a bag of apples handy.

that's where you started to or worked up to?

Worked up to - i'm not even sure I could have stood up without knees buckling with 115% when I started 😳

Pity you're not keen on swimming, Molgrips.

Yeah I would swim more, but as I'm working all over the place I don't always have a local pool. Plus even when I'm at home the pool is 1/2 hour cycle away and tbh I'd rather carry on cycling and get a 2 hour ride in 🙂

Worked up to

that makes sense. i was concerned that you's started there then given up on squats!!

Warm up at 60% x 12
Transition set at 100% x 8
Max strength set att 120% x 3

sounds better than

5x8 @ 60/90/100/110/115%

set of 8 is a lot at near max. especially around cycling workouts.

Yes I think a lot of internet stuff is aimed at people who want to get really strong for the sake of it, and isn't necessarily compatible with cycling or some other sport.

You all need to get on Johnnie WOD...

http://johnniewod.com/

I think a lot of internet stuff is aimed at people who want to get really strong for the sake of it, and isn't necessarily compatible with cycling or some other sport.

As per posts above, I agree to a degree but I think it might be the Stronglifts guy that claims it's useful for what he calls "yard work". Whatever you want to call it, it's usable strength in most things. Last year I attacked a 6" deep, 3ft wide raised centre turf of a 100m driveway with just a mattock. I'm not going to claim it was easy but the only thing I felt at the end of a days (seven, all told) was glutes from pushing the barrow filled with turf to the top of the sloped drive.

Strong or not I still wished I'd simply hired a mini digger. Most folk gawp when they see the length of the drive. Fnarr...

Good call on the swimming, Johnny boy, especially the non-traumatic benefit.

Downloaded My Fitness Pal to use as a food diary. I must say I don't like the app itself but I'm pleased to learn that I only had 1800cals yesterday. It doesn't tell me how much protein I had though.

You can set the macros too. Can't remember how but it's in there somewhere.

Premium feature no?

nope, i used it for a year or two until i sort of knew what i was eating without using it, but it was easy enough to set macros. protein, carbs and fat, think you could also set others such as salt etc but i never bothered going that deep into it.

I'd like to know how much protein I've had in a day.

EDIT ah, easy to find on the website. I conclude that I did not need the protein shake to reach my ideal protein levels for the day. It was nice though 🙂

It was nice though

Always amuses me seeing overweight people taking protein supplements in their pursuit of weight loss.
Very few people get insufficient protein in their normal diets for their needs, unless you read the marketing blurbs of supplement sellers of course.

Downloaded My Fitness Pal to use as a food diary. I must say I don't like the app itself but I'm pleased to learn that I only had 1800cals yesterday. It doesn't tell me how much protein I had though.

Sure that used to be a free feature, I used to use it but as I eat pretty much the same every day, I got very bored....

EDIT: yep, still there:

[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4160/33904217993_e6f4e4d0a1.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4160/33904217993_e6f4e4d0a1.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/TDZYND ]MFP[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr

Very few people get insufficient protein in their normal diets for their needs

That's why I wanted to know my protein intake. Doing some endurance traning and some strength work it seems 1.4g proten per kg body weight is desirable. Excluding excess fat body weight it seems I should be on about 100-120g protein per day. I managed about that without the shake.

Going for a run tonight, let's see what that does to my recommended calorie intake 🙂

My squat is the same weight (with bar) and yeah, quite hard work to stop it becoming a Good Morning.

I have the same problem as I can good-morning more than I can squat and when ever the weight gets heavy (for me) I just good-morning it.

Solution is box squat, all my back squats are done to a small stool set at the right height for the limit of my lower back (just before it rounds out). I have to touch and go on every rep...

Only downside is if you do ditch the bar behind it will fold in two over the box. How do I know this, well learning this cost me £220 for a new Olympic Bar at my gym (I insisted on replacing it for such a school boy error). The stool was completely unmarked even with 120kg dumped on it.

I now get someone to spot me if I'm pushing it...

Always amuses me seeing overweight people taking protein supplements in their pursuit of weight loss.
Very few people get insufficient protein in their normal diets for their needs, unless you read the marketing blurbs of supplement sellers of course.

I think it's more a case of replacing carb meals with protein, which is better. The issue is that a lot of protein shakes are also full of carbs.

I notice a significant difference in recover after a heavy set of squats if I have a protein shake.

The issue is that a lot of protein shakes are also full of carbs.

I just mix up My Protein unflavoured with water and a bit of cordial so it tastes nicer. Also way cheaper than buying a ready made shake.

Are you trying to lose weight northerntom?

I have the same problem as I can good-morning more than I can squat and when ever the weight gets heavy (for me) I just good-morning it

I'm only a forum expert but you have some major flexibility problems. Do front squats.

FWIW Myprotein Vanilla blended with frozen berries is just about the best post ride recovery drink ever.

The issue is that a lot of protein shakes are also full of carbs.

Most of them tell you. The overpriced ones at the gym have a range of protein and carb content.

The big thing they do for me is taste sweet despite having little carbs, and really satisfying any food cravings I might have.

I'm only a forum expert but you have some major flexibility problems. Do front squats.

Nothing to do with flexibility, I just have weak glutes (which is pretty normal).

Never heard of this good morning thing. I think I like Stronglifts because I've spent so much time at lower weights I think my form is quite good.

Pasta for lunch today.

Pre-emptively added my run to my MFP diary to see what it would do to my totals. It changes my evening meal from a pretty meagre one to quite a big one and still keeping the target deficit.

how much protein do you get in these shakes? I've not had one for about ten yrs or more..

Never heard of this good morning thing.

A recommended exercise for complementing squats / deadlifts.

Different people recommend different weights eg Greg Everett (Catalyst Athletics) recommends aiming for good form at 1/2 whatever your back squat is whereas Louie Simmons (Westside barbell) aims for max efforts.

I think I like Stronglifts because I've spent so much time at lower weights I think my form is quite good.

I started off doing British Weight Lifting which is pretty much based on a 5x5 format for all exercises. I still use it now, but ramp the weight up each set rather than keeping all 5 working sets the same.

how much protein do you get in these shakes? I've not had one for about ten yrs or more..

They are either 20/0, 20/20 or 50/20 protein/carbs in my gym, IIRC.

So about as much as you get in a pint of milk.

How much are you lifting on your good mornings footflaps?

So about as much as you get in a pint of milk.

In the 20g ones yes. Not 50g.

How much are you lifting on your good mornings footflaps?

I don't normally do them, but have managed 110-120kg when attempting a squat. I now just do Back squat to box. I used to do just front squat, but have switched to back squat only this year for a change, plus as you lift 10-20% more it should give slightly better gains.

My training is a bit messed up right now as my main sport was Olympic lifting, but I now have a 40% tear in my supraspinatus tendon plus bone oedema plus inflamed bursa (from being hit by a snow boarder at New Year) which means limited over head strength / mobility, which sort of rules out OL.

Plus I lost all of 2016 through patella tendonisis (from too much front squatting)....

So I'm just sort of spinning the wheels till it heals (hopefully by end of the year).

This am's session was walking lunge, Nordic Curls and some RDLs...