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I paid a trainer for some weights workouts, and I told him it was all about fat loss and becoming leaner.
He's given me various exercises, but the weights start at 12 reps of fairly easy weight, then 90 seconds rest, then 10 of the next increment, then 8 then 8 - with 90s inbetween each one.
Sound reasonable for someone whose aim is lean-ness? (and yes I know, diet etc etc) He keeps making references to size, but I dont' want to be big of course. But is it a case of getting slightly bigger first to help shift the fat?
Opinions?
Well bigger muscles result in more energy use so less fat - though appetite likely to increase. I weight train but it's my cycling that helps me control my weight.
It's already worked.
Your wallet is lighter.
Frankly, he's the professional so knows better than fat, middle aged IT works on here.
But...it does seem about right, if it was pure strength and size you were going after it would be less reps and more weight. Saying that, there is an increasing school of thought that working big muscle groups with big weights does wonders for weight loss. Think weighted squats and the like.
The advice always seems to be contradictory, but I though the principle was that pushing big weights makes you strong, which is what the 5x5 program was based on. Although it's not 5x5 because once you're through the first few weeks you start doing warmup sets with lower weights, so it ends up looking more like what you've been prescribed anyway.
You won't get big without eating through, that's always true. So the worst you can do it have very inefficient muscle (in terms of what you can lift for a given lean body mass).
I'd just go with what the trainer said. What you're asking is "I think at some point in the future I might be Monet or Van Gough, how can I be a better painter". Whereas the reality is more like "I have a packet of crayola, can I at least be Banksy?". And once you get there and plateau, maybe re-evaluate your goals and routine.
That's a pyramid workout. as long as you're upping the weight as the reps decrease, then you should be pretty burst by the end of it.
And don't worry about gaining mass. The amount of calories you need to consume to do that mean you're not about to turn into peak Arnie any time soon
Frankly, he's the professional so knows better than fat, middle aged IT works on here.
He is a trainer, he might be extremely knowledgeable or he might have done a short course that gives him a meaningless certificate in an unregulated job.
Have a chat with him, ask him to explain how his plan works towards your goals, then you have to make a judgement call on if his advice is worth following or not.
I would expect a fair bit more detail, goals and progress measurement, I hope there is a lot more to his advice than your brief description.
Frankly, he's the professional so knows better than fat, middle aged IT works on here....
Saying that, there is an increasing school of thought that working big muscle groups with big weights does wonders for weight loss
Fat loss but muscle gain.
Have you done much/any gym work in the past? In not i'd have said 4 sets of each exercise seems 1 too many as a starting point, and i'd have limited the rest periods to 60s to keep heart rate up.
Building muscle is certainly not a bad thing, it will increase the rate you burn calories at all other times of the day, not just when you are working out.
You know the saying, "Abs are made in the kitchen"?
professional
Considering some of the advice I have heard handed out by so called "professional trainers" I would be very reluctant to use that word.
My 2p...
The old saying "Abs are made in the kitchen" is bang on. I'd be looking at cutting out refined carbs and putting myself in a slight caloric deficit.
But gym work wise...if I wanted to lean out, I'd be hitting a couple of big compound movements for 5 working sets of 5 reps for the first half of my workout then some type of metcon. (eg a circuit that involves a 250m row, then KB swings, then thrusters, then burpees.)
I wouldn't be doing what appears to a Hypertrophy workout using drop sets.
My current programming is similar to what you have been prescribed (higher reps, drop sets, low rest periods) but the desired outcome is putting on muscle size.
a weights routine is just that.
it needs to keep you interested and working.
there are no specific workouts that burn fat
you need to burn calories working, change your metabolism and eat less
Fat loss but muscle gain.
True. But OP has said he wants to be "leaner". My experience of people who say that is that the actual weight is almost irrelevant, they want to look a certain way and that way, whether they realise or not, is normally less fat and more muscle.
ungeFrankly, he's the professional so knows better than fat, middle aged IT works on here.
BillOddieConsidering some of the advice I have heard handed out by so called "professional trainers" I would be very reluctant to use that word.
MSPHe is a trainer, he might be extremely knowledgeable or he might have done a short course that gives him a meaningless certificate in an unregulated job.
I would just like to add that I know two personal trainers and the sum total of their professional training and qualifications is zero. What they know about lifting weights and personal training is what they were told by the people they met in the gym, people who trained them and youtube.
They also have a lifestyle which includes taking copious amounts of steroids, fat burning pills and lying in bed all day post workout. Buyer beware.
Think weighted squats and the like
Yeah, to be honest I was expecting those for leg day. I did squats on a machine with a sliding inclined back rest which I wasn't that keen on tbh - hard to keep my feet in place and made my knees a bit funny. I was meant to be hurting after leg day but I ended up feeling lightly warmed up.
My experience of people who say that is that the actual weight is almost irrelevant
Well no, I don't care about how I look (see Capt America pictures for evidence). I just want to loose fat to cycle better. I didn't say 'lighter' because I want to keep cycling power.
The old saying "Abs are made in the kitchen" is bang on. I'd be looking at cutting out refined carbs and putting myself in a slight caloric deficit.
You new here? Suffice to say this has been covered to some length on the forum 🙂
Anyway the main aim for me was being shown proper technique to do the exercises. I can change the reps/weights if I want.
you want low intensity exersise to burn fat. Couple that with reduced sugar and calorie intake will see you loose weight. Weights will help with muscle strength and tone but won't be effective as light cardio to burn calories.
He's given me various exercises, but the weights start at 12 reps of fairly easy weight, then 90 seconds rest, then 10 of the next increment, then 8 then 8 - with 90s inbetween each one.
But is it a case of getting slightly bigger first to help shift the fat?
Light weights and high reps won't make you any bigger so don't worry. Heavy deadlifts, squats and surplus calories might though.
I was meant to be hurting after leg day but I ended up feeling lightly warmed up.
More weights then my boy! Find a weight you can squat 8 times. Do a set to failure (10 reps or so), 60 secs rest, repeat, 60 secs rest, repeat. And when I say failure I mean you squat and can't physically get back up, none of this "it hurts, I'll stop", that'll happen at rep 7, you'v got 3 or 4 more in the locker after that. Do this with a bar and not a machine as it will work your core more. Try to avoid stairs the next day...
Saying all that, if you just want to lose weight then it's diet that will do it. Eat less.
you want low intensity exersise to burn fat
There's a huge amount of research that says that's not at all correct.
You new here? Suffice to say this has been covered to some length on the forum
Not at all...the amount of BS spouted by arm chair dietitians is also breath taking.
Thee is a school of thought that argues lifting small reps of very heavy weights early in the morning burns fat all day. look at lifts that use the whole body - dead lifts and squats being the main two.
Mark Sissons swears by it, and he is ripped at age 60 odd
wartonMark Sissons swears by it, and he is ripped at age 60 odd
He's also on TRT.
Saying all that, if you just want to lose weight then it's diet that will do it.
Suffice to say, I'm doing that too.
Also getting older and my upper body is getting stiffer, less efficient and less mobile.
Cardio is taken care of by biking and running of course.
Hi, I am a Level 4 Master PT, Strength and Conditining Coach, nutritionist etc etc....
Also a XC/Marathon MTB racer with 10 years experience
If you want any advice or guidance I'm happy to help.
Email in profile
There's a huge amount of research that says that's not at all correct.
Strictly speaking he was right, low intensity exercise will burn fat directly as a fuel source.
The research you refer to works by creating a bigger calorie burn and raising metabolism for the rest of the day which in turn burns more fat.
Its a bit like the LSD vs Intensity argument for cycle training. If you are time limited then go for the bang for buck approach, but the large volume of low intensity work is going to be better if you've got the time for it.
Find a weight you can squat 8 times. Do a set to failure (10 reps or so), 60 secs rest, repeat, 60 secs rest, repeat. And when I say failure I mean you squat and can't physically get back up, none of this "it hurts, I'll stop", that'll happen at rep 7, you'v got 3 or 4 more in the locker after that. Do this with a bar and not a machine as it will work your core more. Try to avoid stairs the next day...
I suggest building up to this level intensity over quite a few months!
I remember falling over a barbell I thought I had stepped over after working my legs so hard they would only allow my to shuffle along afterwards.
Today was the last installment of my training instruction, shoulder day.
Shoulders feel pretty unimpressed by it, tbh. Didn't even sweat. Unsure if I just need to up weights or what... I was hoping to be shown how to do things like squats and deadlifts and whatnot...
Shoulders feel pretty unimpressed by it, tbh. Didn't even sweat. Unsure if I just need to up weights or what... I was hoping to be shown how to do things like squats and deadlifts and whatnot...
how much you hurt after is a fairly poor measure of how successful a workout is. That pain often means longer recovery times and more chance of over training and injury.
I visited the doctor yesterday and among other things discussed weight. He is adamant that "we are what we eat" and weight loss is all about calorie intake. That and not eating carbs, any carbs. I think they might have different calories from the calories in his first comment.
Weight training is unlikely to reduce your weight, in fact it is likely to increase.
Exercise in any shape or form is going to burn fat.
Look carefully at what you're eating and don't kid yourself.
Thought it was generally accepted as impossible to gain muscle mass and lose fat at the same time? So assuming you're at a calorific deficit effectively any weighted exercise is simply a means to burn calories. And presumably moving heavy objects is an effective way to.
Suppose there may still be some strength gains. The only thing to consider is are you likely to be more fatigued and do less work compared to a less intense activity you might do for longer e.g. exercise bike or treadmill?
Please excuse my ignorance on this, but surely lifting weights, especially compound exercises like squats isn't a great thing to do with a calorie deficit. I'm probably wrong. It just seems a bit counter-intuitive. Don't you need the energy to push the weight and risk injury if you don't have the reserves to do so.
I did the 5x5 a few years ago and ate quite a lot. Just got stronger as opposed to gaining or losing much weight.
Weights (in my limited experience) work well for strength and tone. More effective weight loss via diet and aerobic style excersize. You could fhrow in some protein shakes too. So my 2p is yup it's all part of the game but a relatively small part
Three reps a day of an 80-mile round cycle trip should do it in a few weeks. 😉
In the gym, I would be mixing up rowing machine; cross country machine; hand cycle; exercise bike (if you can stand it on top of cycling outdoors). With just a dash of light weights.
Cardio machines in a gym are depressing and a waste of time generally. Do big movement weights (deadline, squats etc) along with the cardio you already do and you'll be laughing, as long as your diet is good.
And you can build muscle and lose fat at the same time, it's just easier of you focus on one.
I started weight training to improve posture, flexibility, core strength, joint strength & injury prevention. This is why EVERYONE should do it. They'd be a lot less knackered backs, knees, etc. The strength & physique improvements are just a bonus.Also getting older and my upper body is getting stiffer, less efficient and less mobile.
lol. Could not be more wrong. But then would you trust someone who didn't know the difference between loose and lose 🙂you want low intensity exersise to burn fat. Couple that with reduced sugar and calorie intake will see you loose weight. Weights will help with muscle strength and tone but won't be effective as light cardio to burn calories.
In answer to the OP, the ONLY way you could put on weight/size is to have a calorie excess. Think about it. Lifting heavy is ALWAYS the optimum course of action.
The week after I set up this programme I got sent to London for forever, and am at the mercy of hotel gyms. Many of which are decent enough but don't have half the kit specified in the programme so it's a bit of a balls up. So I just improvised really.
Also tried deadlifts - 70kg, I think. Feels good to do and works up a good sweat unlike the rest of it. Briefly tried squats with a bar but it hurt my bony shoulders so will try to work out how to do it. Bench press is up to 50kg which is fun too.
Weight is stable at a relatively low level despite having eaten quite a bit.
For squats if the bar is hurting your shoulders you have it in the wrong place. Down a bit would likely help.
Have a look at Rippetoe's vids or 5x5 for form.
The correct place for the bar on a back squat is the base of the traps.
Did lots of deadlifts on Sunday, didn't feel battered but then went riding yesterday and felt tired, so I guess that means I did some good work.
Say what? Is it this time of year again already?
Lift some heavy things, repeatedly, in a few different ways. Run around a few times a week. Eat less food, drink less booze.
I could dress it up a bit and charge you £50, if you like.
I'm doing the paleo workout.
You have to heave animal carcasses about and deadlift logs etc. As many logs as you can until you've enough to build a modest shelter.
One of the key fat burning sessions is shivering around a camp fire.
Lift some heavy things, repeatedly, in a few different ways. Run around a few times a week. Eat less food, drink less booze.
That is exactly what I am doing, so no £50 for you.
Let's not get into the 'you useless fattie' slanging match ok?
Gym workout for weight loss you say?
Join a boxing gym. The weight will fly off. And you are learning a skill and it is also SLIGHTLY more fun than standing in a gym.
Must admit I am rather tempted to do that.
Did lots of deadlifts on Sunday, didn't feel battered
Sorry, but that means you're weights aren't heavy enough. Deadlifts should beat you up, as should squat sets (and arguably any gym work really).
If I walk out of the gym after a large muscle group (generally that means legs) session and I'm not aching I think I've not gone hard enough. If I can walk up stairs the next day and not feel uncomfortable I know I've not worked hard enough.
Wow. it's the southern Yeti. Haven't seen that name on this forum for yonks. Where you been?
[quote=lunge ]Did lots of deadlifts on Sunday, didn't feel battered
Sorry, but that means you're weights aren't heavy enough. Deadlifts should beat you up, as should squat sets (and arguably any gym work really).
If I walk out of the gym after a large muscle group (generally that means legs) session and I'm not aching I think I've not gone hard enough. If I can walk up stairs the next day and not feel uncomfortable I know I've not worked hard enough.
Yip.
I'm in tatters after last night's pyramid deadlifts. By my calcs, 39 total lifts amounting to 4087.5kg.
yep, and remember to recover/eat/sleep sufficiently afterwards otherwise you're wasting your timeSorry, but that means you're weights aren't heavy enough. Deadlifts should beat you up
I'm a bot developed by the moderators and simply posting the same answers to the same questions from 5 years ago Tricky.
For cycling Mol, I'd advise looking into Joe Friel's weights workouts.
They're not designed to lose weight (you'll do that on the bike if combined with a good diet) they're designed to increase strength / power without gaining weight.
Sorry, but that means you're weights aren't heavy enough.
It was my first time with a bar and didn't want to put my back out. I did it til I could do no more, probably 5 sets of 12 down to 6 or so. I felt ok *at the time* but the point is when riding the following day I realised I was pretty tired. I meant that nothing hurt.
I will probably go heavier next time, but I'm taking it easy to avoid injury.
you'll do that on the bike if combined with a good diet
*ahem*
Late to the thread, but, if you want the advice of a pro about how to burn fat through lifting weights, then look no further
http://www.jameshaskell.com/blog/fitness/how-to-burn-fat-through-lifting-weights
Oh yeah, and how to deadlift properly
http://www.jameshaskell.com/blog/fitness/how-to-perform-a-deadlift-the-right-way
Lots more good stuff on his blog and YT channel.
If you seriously want to lose weight improve fitness, firm up become an allround lean-steely-eyed fanny magnet learn to row young man, learn to row ! study the correct use of the concept 2 machine, learn to set up the drag, get your technique right and before you know it you will be a new man and thinking of a nice gift to send to Cheekyboy 😉 the reason the rowing machine is always empty is because most people are scared of proper exercise, they just want to grunt and scowl and carry protein concoctions around.
lose weight improve fitness, firm up become an allround lean-steely-eyed fanny magnet
No I just want to be better up climbs. Speaking of which must get to the climbing wall too.
learn to row
CV machines in gyms are so frigging boring.
I wonder if a VR headset would be a good way to watch films in the gym? 🙂
What length of climb Molly? Short sharp punchy ones, or long steady Alpine ones?
I suppose so, if you're one of those people who insists on reading a book, etc, at the same time, but still thinks they're getting a decent workout. Personally I'd either be going as hard as possible or desperately trying to recover, neither of which give you time to be bored!CV machines in gyms are so frigging boring.
Personally I'd either be going as hard as possible or desperately trying to recover, neither of which give you time to be bored!
Yeah they do. Working hard on some pointless machine is so unpleasant that it does nothing to offset the fact you are staring at a wall.
I can put far more effort in out running or on a bike, so that's what I do.
What length of climb Molly? Short sharp punchy ones, or long steady Alpine ones?
Anything over 1 minute. But for any climb, not carrying 10kg of extra fat is a major advantage, so that's my target.
Then if it's purely weight loss go for maximal calorie burning HIIT/circuit workouts.
Maximise the time you spend in the gym by doing as little rest as possible. Chuck a 250m sprint on the rower into the circuit to keep your HR as high as possible and try not to lift so much weight your muscles ache after. Key to the weight loss will be total volume of work each week not smashing your legs into hypotrophy.
This is the problem even with paying someone to give you advice. You are never sure if they've really understood your goals or even know what they are doing. I feel like I've wasted £90
maximal calorie burning HIIT/circuit workouts.
So what would you include? It sounds like you are suggesting anything that makes you sweat.
Essentially mate, yes. Back to the old kettlebell routine I'd say or calisthenics.
IMO the only reason to lift heavy weights (for a cyclist) is to develop sprint power and even then you're targetting better muscle utilization rather than muscle growth.
If you're following a busy training schedule the last thing you want is DOMS preventing you doing a decent bike session.
By way of an alternative (and if you find weights a bit boring) I can fully recommend circuits or plyometric type training to lose weight, improve flexibility and refine muscles (less strain on the joints as well if you're a slightly old bloke like me).
Sounds like you need or more likely want some kind of electronic gimmickry to help you up them climbs, how about a few hill sprints, use your extra 10 kg as your resistance weight.
Sounds like you need or more likely want some kind of electronic gimmickry to help you up them climbs
No, I love climbing, I can deal with pacing and effort and all. I'm just not as quick as I'd like to be or ought to be. I want to race, but there's no point entering, planning the family weekend and spending the money to just get the same result as I did years ago.
Essentially mate, yes. Back to the old kettlebell routine I'd say or calisthenics.
I'm thinking deadlifting, squats, pullups and presses, since they are the things that make me sweat the most, but with lots of reps. And maybe rowing *bluch*
I have an old Tunturi Puch rowing type machine. It uses hydraulic rams and levers. It's an absolute monster. There is nothing cardio vascular about it. I fall off mine in a heap. Only do 20 mins at a time. Every muscle group gets a good work out. Back shoulders arms legs abs you name it. I would never part with it. My sons tennis coach uses a concept 2 at the gym. He's a fit bloke. I wiped him out on the rowing machine easily once I upped the resistance haha. Rowing machines are great old tunturi ones even better.
+1 for rowing.
Maybe throw in some press ups and ab work to balance things out.
Rowing machines might do lots of muscle groups but only in one motion though.
I get plenty of cardio outside, I can't stand it inside. I'd rather lift weights than row.
That is exactly what I am doing, so no £50 for you
Let's not get into the 'you useless fattie' slanging match ok?
(a) should all work fine then
(b) eh? I don't recall calling anyone a useless fattie, or any other names.
Well, you were stating the obvious in a pretty flippant manner. Which really looked like you were insinuating that I'm somehow in denial about eating too much and looking for some kind of magic bullet. Which is usually how these conversations go.
Let's just be clear - thread is about weight training, not a 'why can't I lose weight' whine.
Anyway, back to the original topic, last couple of times I've done some deadlifts, got to 70kg in the pyramid deadlifts last night, could've done more but felt something might break. Felt good to do. Also worked up to 55kg bench press but I could only manage 6 at the end of that.
Quite horrified to discover my shoulders are too inflexible to allow me to squat with the bar though. Need to do some stretchig.
No, I love climbing, I can deal with pacing and effort and all. I'm just not as quick as I'd like to be or ought to be.
I'm not sure anyone's as quick as they'd 'like to be', but aren't we all as quick as 'we ought to be' unless there's some form of undiagnosed issue or medical conditions slowing us down?
I mean that essentially, given our base physiology, the combination of diet, training, machinery and motivation mean we're all pretty much as quick as we 'ought to be'. If you really think you're significantly slower than you should logically be given all those factors, there's either something else wrong with you or your expectations are overly optimistic.
My experience of any sort of heavy leg weights, fwiw, is that they left my legs feeling awful on a bike, properly sluggish, but I guess it all depends on what your priorities are and how often you ride. If you're mostly doing slow, steady stuff over winter, I don't suppose it matters that much.
I started weight training this year, following Joe Friel's Training Bible fairly closely.
I was concerned that I wasn't working myself hard enough as I couldn't really 'feel' the benefits and wasn't sore after my workouts. Thinking more about it, I think that's a good thing - soreness means less effective time on the bike, and that's what's going to make me faster.
Have now started to notice a difference on the bike. FTP is ahead of where I was this time last year and I've found I can recover MUCH faster from sprint efforts on the bike. The big difference has been on the mountain bike - I've never felt so in control.
Weight-wise I've noticed no effect either way, but then my weight is pretty reliable anyway.
Also try single leg squats or leg presses. I've gone from 60kg on each leg to 82kg in a few months.
I love the deadlift
Here's a link to [url= http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/ ]a really useful website[/url] about weight training and weight loss. Lyle McDonalds Body Re-composition. Everything you need to know is on there.
I'd been trying various things in the gym with limited results. For my birthday last year I was bought 5 sessions with a personal trainer. She sat down with me and asked what I wanted to achieve and worked out a programme for me. It works for me. Still use her every couple of weeks and she monitors My Fitness Pal. We also tweak the workouts when needed. Definitely recommend it if you can find the right trainer for you.
Are you still racing Tricky?
I mean that essentially, given our base physiology, the combination of diet, training, machinery and motivation mean we're all pretty much as quick as we 'ought to be'. If you really think you're significantly slower than you should logically be given all those factors, there's either something else wrong with you
There is somethign wrong - too much fat! By 'ought' in this case, I meant that someone with my power and endurance should be quicker up hills. I'm something like 22% fat which is clearly too much.
Here's a link to a really useful website
You're right, that is interesting.
Are you still racing Tricky?
Ah no. 🙁 Now have a 2 year old haven't raced cross in 2 years now and gave up on the road racing as i just didn't have enough time to train.
Switched to using weights at the gym last year to improve my core which was really bad. Did deadlifts, plank, single leg presses and glute/ham raise.
Improved my riding loads - particularly on the mtb
Let's just be clear - thread is about weight training, not a 'why can't I lose weight' whine
(a) The thread is "How's this gym workout for weight loss?"
(b) You're putting words in my mouth again.
OK. I'll be obvious, because humour is clearly not working at this juncture.
I stated the obvious, because the obvious is, generally, with medical exceptions excepted, what people who want to train for something, ought to be doing.
I wrapped it up with some vaguely off-colour humour because that's me.
I wish you the best of luck with your training, however long you decide to spend on the internet deciding what you might want to do.
Slightly more virtuous pursuit, Tricky!
... however long you decide to spend on the internet deciding what you might want to do.
Ouch.
I apologise for not getting your humour mrmonkfinger.
however long you decide to spend on the internet deciding what you might want to do.
I rarely hang around on the internet when I've got time to train and haven't done so. This is what I do when I'm supposed to be working. I do do things, I just want to make sure I'm doing the right things, in a way that I can keep up regularly.
This is the problem even with paying someone to give you advice. You are never sure if they've really understood your goals or even know what they are doing. I feel like I've wasted £90
A slightly different take is that whilst you might not have got exactly what you wanted from your £90 you have however got a well rounded routine down on paper and gained some knowledge about best form etc. Once you are familiar with a gym environment and the equipment you can go back later in life or for other goals and never be starting from scratch. Its been years since I was a regular gym user and i'm now a stick insect, but if i'm stuck in a hotel or something and don't have my bike handy I know how to do a weights session without hurting myself.
Anything over 1 minute. But for any climb, not carrying 10kg of extra fat is a major advantage, so that's my target.
No, I love climbing, I can deal with pacing and effort and all. I'm just not as quick as I'd like to be or ought to be. I want to race, but there's no point entering, planning the family weekend and spending the money to just get the same result as I did years ago.
Have you just got a perception that you should be stronger for a given weight on the climbs, or have you got any evidence.
If there is a weakness climbing (other than body weight) have you really focussed in yet on finding what it is?
For example, are you unable to physically push the pedals hard enough (a symptom of this may be that you can ride a 20min effort at almost the same speed as a 3 min effort)
Or maybe you are getting out of breath too quickly?
Or you can make good power, but you are unable to sustain it?
And at the risk of being at a slight tangent to the thread, what typical kind of intervals do you do on the bike to target climbing power?