[Closed] How to make UK PLC great again

Pish

Pish indeed! Where do they get these facts from?!

Set up a company yourself and create some jobs for others and wealth for yourself .......

You haven't heard that there is a crises ? A crises which effects demand ?

How do you expect to increase demand ?

When you've figured that out perhaps write a letter to the Times. And maybe stand for parliament.

It's a remarkable position to argue that nothing has changed in the UK since Victorian times but that meritorious achievements were made in the Soviet Union

You're taking those remarks out of context

Nothing's changed in this country in terms of the economic hierarchy, in that the rich prosper while the poor suffer. Societally, yes we've improved vastly, although those deformed posh kids in charge now seem hell bent on reversing that.

How do you expect to increase demand ?

Who said increase? How about uncover existing but currently unmet demand? That's called generating economic growth...

And what crisis? Developing world is increasingly wealthy and seeing massive economic growth, sell to them?

The point of all my posts on this thread is that we need positive attitude, energy and a bit of DIY rather than being defeatest...

How do you expect to increase demand ?

brooess - Member

And what crisis?

Ah, I see.

Wasn't the iphone4s launched during the current credit crisis

It's a point, but being a cynic I wonder how many of those phones were bought on credit which the owner can't really afford, spurred on by advertisers who suggested you're a duffer if you don't have one of their overpriced gadgets...

Pish

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1508474/26pc-of-council-tax-goes-on-public-pensions.html

Well whatever, all pensions should be money purchase in order to know liabilities up front. But we're still ****ed!

Shoe/cloth repairs? We have evolved into a disposable society, can that change? Often the labour cost of repairs isn't justifiable when compared to the capital cost of a replacement. In many ways we are so much better off than we were in previous centuries - just not relatively compared to the rest of the world when we could pretty much plunder at will.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1508474/26pc-of-council-tax-goes-on-public-pensions.html

Hmmm...a six year old story...
The pensions contribution varies from authority to authority - some are 5%. Some may have been 25%, if calculated by a right wing paper's right wing consultant. Some authorities' schemes are financially very healthy and require no plundering of the public purse to anywhere near the extent the Tory pedagogues would have you believe.

returning to fuller employment is critical and it can be done easily at no cost..
we have the largest public sector in the world the nhs is the 5th largest employer in the world and the worlds largest pension provider.

the salaries of many has exploded expotentially at no reflection of thier contribution or value or private sector value pensions are paid to people who are still employed.

if there was a salary cap of 150k pa for all public service roles all the monies left over could be used to employ thousands at 20k pa enhanced public services
if those in public service could not draw any pensions ( accept ill health) before state retirement age this would free up millions of pounds to be spent on more public service roles

oh non of the best staff would work for only 150k? as they are allegedly the best of the best then surely they can plough thier own furrow in the private sector for thier real worth.

would public servcies be left at the mercy of less able staff .. no not at 100k pa would patients suffer as their medical care was administered by professionals whose income was limited to 150k? where elese would they work?

[url= http://www.coalitionofresistance.org.uk/2011/10/new-tuc-site-debunks-daily-mail-lies-about-public-sector-pensions/ ]null[/url]

and just to reinforce my post above, here's a left-wing (ish) response to the right-wing drivel. And comparatively fresh, at a mere six months old...

By their nature ? That really is complete nonsense.

Still, it's very trendy and fashionable to come out with crap like that........so carry on.

feel free to denigrate it if you so wish, but the brutal reality is and always has been most people who are driven to seek power have a certain mentality, not all by any stretch, but enough. A feeling of superiority, that they know best, that anyone who disagrees with them is wrong, no attempt to understand why someone might have a different opinion just they are wrong. Maybe it is the tribalism that is present in the UK political arena, maybe it isn't. Maybe the UK needs to stop worrying about the next 5 years, or how we used to have an empire and develop a political system where worrying about the next 50 years is at the heart of decision making?

It isn't just Politics though, i have been in enough workplaces where the office and the shop floor, for a better term hate each other, where the management is divorced from the workforce, where the union is there to make cosy deals with the management whilst playing the workforce off against itself.

For those saying if you don't like it do something, maybe people are just trying to muddle through. They have accepted the system is b******s and out to screw them. They have made the decision that trying to pay the rent, the mortgage, put food on the plate. That trying to forget how s**t things are by watching X-Factor is the way forward? That politicians are scum, you only have to look at the trust figures to see how respected politicians are these days?

I'd start by banning all that shite on TV for a start.

You're not going to get rich quick by being a great singer or a model or by winning the lottery, you'll get rich by working hard and making something of yourself. Build a business, rely on yourself, help your staff, grow, make stuff.

It's actually insanely easy to rebuild the economy, trouble is, there's too many people who think they're smart, but are stupid, in charge.

On this matter Samuri, you are quite correct!

It will take a long time to make good the damage done by 30 years of Thetcherite / Blairite "the free market is always right". There is a national groundswell for more manufacturing and less short termism and less flogging off of assets to foreign corporates but not much yet being done to make it happen. Will Hutton's 'The State We're In' covered it all off perfectly 15 years ago and whilst he was in the wilderness then he has been proved so right.

I do fear for today's kids. They all need to have one eye on moving abroad.

and just to reinforce that, here's a left-wing (ish) response to the right-wing drivel.

So 25% of council tax (i.e. the amount I pay every year) does go on pension then?

Anyway, money purchase is the way forward right?

oh non of the best staff would work for only 150k? as they are allegedly the best of the best then surely they can plough thier own furrow in the private sector for thier real worth

so you're happy to pay anyone in the private sector as much money as they can possibly get their greedy grasping hands on, and that's their "real worth". Is Katie Price "worth" more than a paeditrician? Or a teacher? Or a fire officer?

So 25% of council tax (i.e. the amount I pay every year) does go on pension then?

eh? how did you interpret that from anything in that link?

Will Hutton was hardly in the wilderness in the mid to late 90s - his book was very much part of the zeitgeist, no?

zimbo - Member

voter for voter apathy is simply wrong

The only people who will ever be blamed for voter apathy are the voters; no-one in power will ever read that as dissent, because it suits them not to.

No aggression intended, honestly! I'm just not very diplomatic in my tone, which is why I'll never be a politician! It's all just debate, and I apologise if it sounds personal. Enjoy your day...

Thanks I will,

feel free to denigrate it if you so wish

Thanks, but I did anyway. To claim that politicians are "[i]by nature[/i]" just power seekers is nonsense. Most people enter politics to make a difference. Obviously they need the power to make the difference, but that's as far as it goes.

Even the likes of Cameron and Osborne are more motivated by making a difference than some sort of lust for political power. If they weren't then they wouldn't doing so many things which are making them so unpopular with voters - they know very well that what they are doing today is very likely to result in them losing power next election.

But that really won't matter that much as long as they achieve what they intend to achieve - they know that the bulk of it is very unlikely to be reversed by an incoming Labour government.

In fact Labour have boosted their confidence in that respect by very publicly announcing that they won't commit themselves to reversing what Cameron and Osborne are doing. Generally Labour likes to give the impression that it will reverse Tory policies whilst having absolutely no intention of doing so - Tony Blair being the classic example. Under Miliband we now have a new level of honesty.

Will Hutton was hardly in the wilderness in the mid to late 90s - his book was very much part of the zeitgeist, no?

Well he is much better regarded now I think. The trouble with this government is they say "we want to encourage the march of the makers" (G Osborne, June 22nd 2010, Emergency Budget) and then award the next big train contract to Siemens without any guarantees over the UK made content. And other examples almost weekly. No other country would do this, even USA, that actually has a very assertive and pro active industrial policy.

Is Katie Price "worth" more than a paeditrician? Or a teacher? Or a fire officer?
well yes she is she has sole ability to be herself and we only need one of them..on the other hand we need 100k teachers and anyone ith a degree can do the teachers course if they wish so i suspect thats probably several million could be teachers as could also be firemen etc.
supply and demand.. when katies value dries up she ll be worth nowt but the teachers firemen etc will be still working and rewarded and when so old they can no longer work will still be able to benifit from a state subsidised pension.

cinnamon_girl - Member
Hmmm, difficult one. Can politicians be taught the meaning of morality? And honesty? This could equally apply to CEOs.

Sort out the education system by increasing the number of subjects taught whilst getting rid of the gimmicky ones. Teach practical skills and encourage creativeness.

Cancel the Jubilee and Olympics.

That's just for starters!

Where and how do i vote for you.

also lets have a reduction in politicians, and move parliment to Salford as was recently suggested, enlarge manachester and newcastle airports to take the strain off heathrow and speed up travel for us northerns, cancel all road building in london along with all trains and new train lines that will only be used twice a day in rush hour.

Cancel all reality tv shows,make documentries about engineering/science and biology instead.

Cancel all reality tv shows,make documentries about engineering/science and biology instead.

Whilst I don't doubt that only documentries about engineering/science and biology is exactly what the British public wants, are they cheap to make ?

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-11572171 ]Television licence fee to be frozen for next six years[/url]

Although advertisers on the commercial channels will undoubted be thrilled by the increased viewing figures.

eh? how did you interpret that from anything in that link?

Seems I understood it better than you. Anyway, this is of minor importance in some respects; I'm sure we won't end up like Greece....

A 6 year old newspaper article? You'll be advising people to borrow as much as possible because there's easy money in property next.
The biggest challenges facing this country are the endemic short term thinking in both politics and financial sectors and the lack of investment for the future.
Our main industries are almost wholely foreign owned, our politic leaders are fixated on ideological point scoring and feathering their own nests and it seems like the majority of the population is only concerned with themselves.

1) Gather all Guardian and Daily Mail readers in a big chalk-lined trench
2) Machine gun them
3) Carry on with a radically less moany population

Seems I understood it better than you.

Did you only read the first paragraph? This is the bit you needed to get to -

"So the cost of pensions is a quarter of a quarter or about 6% of the whole of council income"

It points out that you can't extract council tax from the whole council budget, so attempting to work out any percentage of council tax alone is meaningless, and any figures presented on that basis are misleading.

Still, it's an attention grabber for all of you that see little value in public services, and value the societal contribution of Katie Price. Times like this I wish there was a god, because I'd pray for us...

Is Katie Price "worth" more than a paeditrician? Or a teacher? Or a fire officer?

She may not be worth much for society or valuable though she may have a market worth - see also definition 5 below

HTH

she has sole ability to be herself and we only need one of them

the rest of your argument was also poor

FFS taking right wing dogma to the exetent you will defend jordan 😯

benefit [worth] to society 😯
quivalent to what she earns
worth 1 (wûrth)
n.
1. The quality that renders something desirable, useful, or valuable: the worth of higher education.
2. Material or market value: stocks having a worth of ten million dollars.
3. A quantity of something that may be purchased for a specified sum or by a specified means: ten dollars' worth of natural gas; wanted their money's worth.
4. Wealth; riches: her net worth.
5. Quality that commands esteem or respect; merit: a person of great worth.
adj.
1. Equal in value to something specified: worth its weight in gold.
2. Deserving of; meriting: a proposal not worth consideration.
3. Having wealth or riches amounting to: a person worth millions.

So, can you OCD IT boys take your side argument about Katie Price elsewhere so we can go back to arguing over a 6 year old newspaper article. Please.

if there was a salary cap of 150k pa for all public service roles all the monies left over could be used to employ thousands at 20k pa enhanced public services

On one condition- the 150k cap also applies to anyone in the private sector involved in supplying public services, including the CEO.

Surely the answer is to change the name, if UKPlc isn't performing well, just rebrand. Simples.

Sir, that is Geee-nee-us!!!

Make the rebranding into a 'UK's Got Graphic Designer Talent' reality show (I agree these shows should be banned but, one last one For The Common Good 🙂
Talented designers are paired with awful singers (to try and out them off their creative flow, and give pundits something to point at and laugh..) and challenged to create a new brand idea each week, in just 1'30"
When the show reaches the live stages they take their design and develop it for their 1'30"...
Voters are charged a pound a call.... we'll soon clear the debt 😉

<packs bags and heads to London Village - this needs pitching to someone at the top>
🙂

<packs bags and heads to London Village - this needs pitching to someone at the top>

if there was a salary cap of 150k pa for all public service roles all the monies left over could be used to employ thousands at 20k pa enhanced public services

How many public servant earn over £150000? Not that its a bad idea but it wouldn't raise much

However the argument goes we need to pay millions to attract and retain talent in the private sector - does this not apply in the public sector?

don simon - Member
<packs bags and heads to London Village - this needs pitching to someone at the top>

Steady on Tiger! You've not discussed what level of commission you expect me to pay you.
I can see something on the lines of designer + Supersize v Superskinny + Hunger Games.

High fives the don.....
add in a splash of Deal or No Deal, a touch of Embarrassing Bodies and we're on to a winner
Commission - i'm a fair man - 50/50 split 😉

The first thing we need to do is form a very long queue of people wishing to give John Terry a good hard kick in the testicles.

Then we need to make Oswaldtistle the Capital city of England, forcibly sterilize all drivers of German cars and make littering a capital offence.

After this, there will be a lottery: The winner gets to beat Piers Morgan to death live on television with the severed limbs of Simon Cowell.

That should do to be getting on with......

Um....

Maybe stop thinking about it as UK PLC, and start thinking about it in terms of it being a country where people are born, grow up, age, and die in.

Maybe start running it for the benefit of its inhabitants instead of as a cash cow to milked by multi-national companies.

Maybe get medieval on those who make money here then don't pay as much tax as someone on a low wage?

Tesco, Vodafone, Zac Goldsmith, I'm sure you could add names to that list...

add in a splash of Deal or No Deal, a touch of Embarrassing Bodies and we're on to a winner

Rusty spanner for PM

Thanks, but I did anyway. To claim that politicians are "by nature" just power seekers is nonsense. Most people enter politics to make a difference. Obviously they need the power to make the difference, but that's as far as it goes.

Even the likes of Cameron and Osborne are more motivated by making a difference than some sort of lust for political power. If they weren't then they wouldn't doing so many things which are making them so unpopular with voters - they know very well that what they are doing today is very likely to result in them losing power next election.

But that really won't matter that much as long as they achieve what they intend to achieve - they know that the bulk of it is very unlikely to be reversed by an incoming Labour government.

In fact Labour have boosted their confidence in that respect by very publicly announcing that they won't commit themselves to reversing what Cameron and Osborne are doing. Generally Labour likes to give the impression that it will reverse Tory policies whilst having absolutely no intention of doing so - Tony Blair being the classic example. Under Miliband we now have a new level of honesty.

[url= http://www.cool-smileys.com/images/207.gi f" target="_blank">http://www.cool-smileys.com/images/207.gi f"/> [/img][/url] plus 1. I can't believe it but I'm starting to like you Ernie!

Rusty spanner for PM

Junkyard - Member
You have never been to Ossy then [ I was there today]

We went to look at a house on Rising Bridge Road after todays ride.
Ossie is nicer than Baxenden, trust me.

Commiserations Junkyard, have a cup of tea, a couple of paracetamol and an early night. The nightmares will have subsided by next weekend! 😉

Thoughts?

Thanks. 😀
I like to think of it as a gift.

However the argument goes we need to pay millions to attract and retain talent in the private sector - does this not apply in the public sector?

Is there talent in the public sector ?

Only joking...............or am I ?

Rusty Spanner - I'd vote for you tomorrow with headline policies like that.

I'm going to add one of my own, in that anyone who's a member of the cycle to work scheme is allowed to offset a claim for a morning pasty against taxes. Any takers?

rustyspanner would get my vote in a flash

Ignore the EU directives (just as the French do). Stop paying into the multi-culti left wing experiment run from Brussels. Ignore red tape and force money lenders into funding projects with a much longer ROI than 3 years! Have engineers and people who can actually make stuff call the shots, not some toff who looks down his nose at skilled and talented people.

Also, send people like TJ to work in an Israeli Kibutz. Those sort of people will be much happier there and all the hardworking entrepreneurial types won't have to listen to the depressing commercially naive jealous clap trap that spils incessantly from their left wing chums' mouths. 😆

Spongebob - Member

Stop paying into the multi-culti left wing experiment run from Brussels.

What is a multi-culti left wing experiment ?

I assume that you are using multi-culti as short for multicultural, but you didn't want to say multicultural in case it made you sound racist (the Norwegian racist Breivik claims he murdered 77 people in order to fight multiculturalism) am I right ?

And what "experiment" are they doing - what are they trying to achieve ?

Finally on what basis is it left-wing.