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What time is the vote?
What time is the vote?
Same time as the repeat of Jack & Dani: Beyond Love Island. I'll wake up tomorrow and see what happened to to the rest of the UK then.
I don' think there's a set time for it - BBC are saying things could start getting interesting around 19:00, we could see the result at 20:15.
It's interesting from the point of view of it really is history happening before your eyes, but like so much that happens in Westminster, MPs aren't known for keeping quiet when a Mic is put before them so the result is pretty much know already - the whips are even asking for MPs who a loyal to May to abstain, rather than vote against, I guess because it would make the vote seem closer, that really is desperate.
The interesting part comes next - Pro Brexit Torys (the less nutty ones) seem to be saying "you might as well vote for it, or we'll just run down the clock and bring it back again so it's our deal, or no deal". Labour, as ever just want a General Election so they can have a 4th go at forming a Government since 2005.
I think possibly the most interesting outcome might be a vote of no confidence - It could be time for Simon Franks to step out of the shadows, if he, someone else or just collective will could bring together a centrist majority, that really would put the cat amongst the pigeons. There are a lot of senior Tory and Labour MPs who are at odds with their party for a multitude of reasons, I think it would be great to do away with the party system.
I doubt you'd get any sort of cross party coalition government, but might end up with a few defections to the lib dems from strong remain constituencies and embarrassing (for both main parties) by-elections run on the promise of a referendum?
It could be time for Simon Franks to step out of the shadows, if he, someone else or just collective will could bring together a centrist majority, that really would put the cat amongst the pigeons. There are a lot of senior Tory and Labour MPs who are at odds with their party for a multitude of reasons, I think it would be great to do away with the party system.
I thought this in the aftermath of the vote itself, I wish I could find the post now. I don't think Franks is the right person (article is not too impressed) but a centrist / coalition / collaborative type of politics has to be better than this fragmented party within a party within a party shambles we have now; and I have no desire to go back to 2 big united parties even if that were possible. The time's right for fundamental change, and it should be pursued.
https://www.businessinsider.com/inside-simon-franks-united-for-change-new-party-2018-8?r=UK&IR=T
There are a lot of senior Tory and Labour MPs who are at odds with their party for a multitude of reasons, I think it would be great to do away with the party system.
Thats what I'm thinking as well. Both parties have 'leaders' who the majority of their MPs dislike imensely, think are hopeless, and fundamentally disagree with on the most important matters of policy.
Its a given that a hell of a lot of Tory MPs, from both sides of the party, will stick two fingers up at May tonight. Whats interesting is going to be to see how many Labour MPs do the same to Jezza?
If this lunacy somehow ends our completely broken two party system, then there might actually be some good come of it
Laura k reckons the abstentions could swing it
Any last minute predictions?
Both parties have ‘leaders’ who the majority of their MPs dislike imensely, think are hopeless, and fundamentally disagree with on the most important matters of policy.
The flaw there is how many of those MPs would get reelected if they decided to go under their own, or a new, banner?
Laura k reckons the abstentions could swing it
Any last minute predictions?
Still hanging on defeat, to abstain and allow the vote to pass if you don't believe in it then is madness, I do expect to see a few hanging around to see if they need to walk through the door to get the numbers over if they are really remain in a very leave place
Oooof!
Well... that’s a proper dapping in anyone’s book.
Laura k reckons the abstentions could swing it
Whoops. Bit of a miss there (admittedly I didnt have a clue but surely she should have?)
Speaking of the Lord’s, here’s Betty
I enjoyed that and agree with every word she said.
Lost to a majority of 230!!! Bloody ell
mess central. goodness knows what happens now
What a spanking!
Looks like scotroutes/sky were closest!
Never been so happy to lose a bet!
Interesting that there doesn’t appear to have been many abstentions?
Jesus. New PM by the first of Feb then, or General Election.
What happens now to Brexit - surely confidence says now one cares what she comes back with?
and 1st prize goes to
Murray
Member
The dog will eat Mr Tusk’s letter. 200+ for a serious answer.
I'll admit I thought I was being harsh with
mikewsmith
Subscriber
170,pull.the vote and no confidence by a narrow majority.Leftfield part…. Vince cable and kier stammer running the show by Monday
Let's see what happens tomorrow
Is she going to pull a rabbit out the hat?
As I posted in the other thread DUP on her side
She’s going balls out now? She’s actually offering out anyone who fancies it.
Brexit now feels dead somehow, we can’t have a deal the Brexiteers can live with, only the really hard of thinking want no deal. It feels like a game of musical chairs, but the last one sitting has to revoke A50 immediately setting fire to their career as everyone else’s scapegoat.
Chaos.
Isn't it about time that a TV crew caught up with that prick Cameron to get his take on the mess that he has left us in?
Currently driving my superior half and stepdaughter daft by bursting into the Haircut 100 song when anyone asks:
Where do we go from here?
See the EU thread really
Brexit now feels dead somehow, we can’t have a deal the Brexiteers can live with, only the really hard of thinking want no deal. It feels like a game of musical chairs, but the last one sitting has to revoke A50 immediately setting fire to their career as everyone else’s scapegoat.
*Raises hand*
I’ll take one for the team...
She'll be lucky to find any EU leader in the next week who isn't still pissed on Nyetimber Grand Cru and has stopped laughing so they can speak to her with a straight face.
It's all been like a game of Jenga for the last couple of years. Everybody knew it was going to collapse, everybody was taking turns to remove a plank to make it wobble but nobody, absolutely nobody, wanted to be the person to remove the final piece and be branded the LOOOOOOOOOOSEEEER.
Isn’t it about time that a TV crew caught up with that prick Cameron to get his take on the mess that he has left us in?
Indeed, he’s probably propping up a Pig Roast somewhere..
Its groundhog day
We are a month closer to Brexit & May has come back with a completely reworked & 100% different deal to put to parliament....
some MPs are not optimistic
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1105117430823768064
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I reckon she will lose by a mere 96 votes this time
Please please let her delay the vote again, just for the lols...:)
So I'll pitch in with an opening bid of 163 against, after all she has promised that if people don't vote for her deal there might not be a brexit.
....or there might be a hard Brexit, which she tried last week at that wind turbine factory. That went so well for her.
Thats what I’m thinking as well. Both parties have ‘leaders’ who the majority of their MPs dislike imensely, think are hopeless, and fundamentally disagree with on the most important matters of policy.
These disaffected MPs had the option to do something about the situation, by joining together and putting forward a new plan, but they preferred to focus on themselves. It's not a problem with the 2 party system as such, more a problem with our shitty democracy. String 'em up, I say.
Already botttling it. It's pulling teeth. It's amazing they ever get anything done.
200 votes for me. All the conservatives are lining up to see who's going to be leader, voting TM down hard will accelerate that bun fight.
It's still on as of 1707CET, so I am going to say lose by 153 votes
I'll go 205.
This is going to be a proper thrashing. It would be funny if the consequences weren’t so dire.
I'll got 180, just for the 'Bullseye' joy of it.
Can it still be delayed?
Lose by single figures due to abstainers and the lightbulb moment that the deal she was managed to pry out of the EU is the best there is ever going to be and a shitty deal is better than no deal. Like a station toilet when you are out of options. . .
Can it still be delayed?
Anything is possible, after-all, it's a no-gamble game for May personally, all things being equal she's gone by the next election, a short-lived PM who's only going to be remember for this bit of a mess. Her only chance of a legacy (aka a seat in the Lords) or even a u-turn on her leaving is to 'Deliver' Brexit, she knows a no-deal will NEVER pass, so she's fighting for her (political) life to get her deal.
"bit of a mess" ha ha, that's not what I typed.
I'm conflicted. I am an ardent remainer, but this deal is better than a crash out deal which is widely regarded as a catastrophe & I am not sure I can see brexit being cancelled and us staying on as we were before the referendum.
It's a shit situation but I think I have resigned myself to this deal being the least damaging to my future.
Even at that it is akin to offering to chop my left hand off 'cos it's not as good as my right hand when originally I voted & wanted to keep both my hands 'cos they are quite useful thankyouverymuch!
“bit of a mess” ha ha, that’s not what I typed.
Was it "omni-shambles" or the other one?
She's heading back to Brussels tonight apparently.
Got to admire her lunacy...
Got to admire her
Frequent flyer balance, going to come in handy when this job ends.
One of the ERG fruit loops was on Radio 4 predicting an even bigger defeat than last time
Our countries politics is so totally unhinged at the moment, that wouldn’t actually surprise me in the least. Nothing does any more
Beginning to worry that she'll come back with something the party will kid themselves that it meets requirements, then it'll be game over...
I’m conflicted. I am an ardent remainer, but this deal is better than a crash out deal which is widely regarded as a catastrophe & I am not sure I can see brexit being cancelled and us staying on as we were before the referendum.
I’ve been through the emotions myself, but the remainers or ‘Brexit Saboteurs’ / Traitors and they’re sometimes called in the gutter press have a clear plan and goal in mind, unlike the more fractured Leavers from both sides.
May’s deal goes down in flames tomorrow, The vote to block ‘No deal’ passes with a huge majority tomorrow and Brexit is up a creak without a paddle, both exits are closed and the only way is back. They need an extension from the rest of the EU, which they will only give if there’s a meaningful reason, okay it’s a bit of a leap, but not much to think it’s going to be Ref2.
Ref2 will be Mays Deal v Remain, or for remainers, good v least worse, it’s by no means a given remain will win this time, but at least it’ll be based on the truth, not open ended promises. It’s just the millions that very rich people and other nations who would benefit from a weaker Europe and weaker UK that we have to worry about.
they will only give if there’s a meaningful reason, okay it’s a bit of a leap, but not much to think it’s going to be Ref2.
I’d vote for schengen and the euro at the moment, just to see the ERG and the daily mail explode in a fit of rage.
I reckon she’s borrowed that digeridoo from that Aussie/ NZ (apologies to either nation if he wasn’t yours)guy at the commonwealth gig across the road and is just going to blow that
I’d vote for schengen and the euro at the moment, just to see the ERG and the daily mail explode in a fit of rage.
This.
Same! 😀
The vote to block ‘No deal’ passes with a huge majority tomorrow and Brexit is up a creak without a paddle, both exits are closed
Exept they're not...if she loses her deal, and no deal is rejected, and A50 extension is rejected we leave on 29/3 with no deal even tho Parliament rejected that.
isn't that some sort of rhetorical circular oxymoronic statement
A.- Mays best effort gets rejected tomorrow ( probably )
B.- Leaving the Economic Union without a deal is then also rejected ( even more likely )
C.-The Article 50 extension to 29th March is then voted on and also rejected
D.-So we then overturn 'B' by default as there was a law passed to set a date etc
I hate politics . Run by self progressing toffs who dont live in reality and have never had to work 2 jobs to pay the rent (boy)
Exept they’re not…if she loses her deal, and no deal is rejected, and A50 extension is rejected we leave on 29/3 with no deal even tho Parliament rejected that.
The scenarios I’ve read only offer ‘delay’ or ‘revoke’ as possible outcomes of a non-deal block, well unless May can polish up her deal for a 3rd go and somehow get it passed.
It's been said time and time again ... But predictions of May gone by end of week in a couple of scenarios.
Anything is possible.
The scenarios I’ve read only offer ‘delay’ or ‘revoke’ as possible outcomes of a non-deal block,
No, because we leave at 23:00 on 29/3 as per article 50....if Parliament reject extension and revoke (which isn't even being talked about...yet), we just stumble out, because we have to do SOMETHING.
What's the latest tomorrow's question to be voted on can be announced? Midnight tonight? 10:30?
I wouldn't put money on May voting for it at this rate… never mind on how many will vote against.
it makes you wonder what all of the politicians were doing before brexit. She will lose, but an I am not sure by how much.
it makes you wonder what all of the politicians were doing before brexit.
Name a politician and I'll give it my best shot at telling you… Liam Fox for example (he's on TV right now, pretending that he works for us) was working on getting better access to UK markets for USA companies. Look up "Atlantic Bridge".
I can only see the other EU27 offering an extension if Ref2 is on the table. We've gotten all the deal we're going to get, tweaks to the "political statement" are meaningless, Moggy and the ERG knows it... They're busy plotting what comes after a hard Brexit.
The rest of Europe need Brexit to be a cautionary tale for any other countries with an anti-EU movement, and TBF we're giving them it in handfuls; vote to leave the EU, trigger A50, your country will implode over the next 24 months... The cherry on the top would be a 2nd ref where we called the whole thing off.
I can honestly believe we're going to be asked to vote on No deal Vs Remain and whatever the outcome of it we will emerge an even more deeply divided nation...
I can honestly believe we’re going to be asked to vote on No deal Vs Remain and whatever the outcome of it we will emerge an even more deeply divided nation…
^^^ This ^^^
It’s been said time and time again … But predictions of May gone by end of week in a couple of scenarios.
People have been predicting May's demise for so long I'm almost willing to put a fiver on her still being PM in 2O years time.
Long live our unsinkable leader. She's like the politician version of a cockroach. But nastier.
I can honestly believe we’re going to be asked to vote on No deal Vs Remain and whatever the outcome of it we will emerge an even more deeply divided nation…
I'd hope it would be that simple and not also a third option including the deal, a 3 option referendum would be a disaster. A no deal vs remain referendum would presumably result in remain and if so I think although there would be a right-wing media storm I think the country would recover from it pretty quickly, at least the economy would have some stability. If it ended in no deal then apart from people wondering how the majority of the country they live in are so stupid it would be accepted and we'd all be riding the roller-coaster together.
No, because we leave at 23:00 on 29/3 as per article 50….if Parliament reject extension and revoke (which isn’t even being talked about…yet), we just stumble out, because we have to do SOMETHING.
I don't see it, if May's deal gets shot down tonight, then tomorrow there's a vote to block to any form of 'Hard Brexit' was designed exactly to stop the likes of the ERG from down voting any deal into a 'stumble out'. It's a proper 'flags for orphans' so it'll pass. It might put the EU in a strange position, May might have to go back to them to ask for an extension knowing that unless things change, if they say no, then the UK has to revoke A50.
The press seems to be very busy asking if the likes of the ERG will accept the deal, but they're a very minority group - they may well through their hands up and say okay, only to find the rest of parliament, who can sniff the chance to try for Ref2 or even revoke, might vote it down anyway.
The wildcard, as ever, if Corbyn the 'Remainer' who really wants to Leave, and leave hard.
Actually you're right, either I've got it wrong, or they've change their tune on the BBC.
Seems it's a vote for May's deal today.
A Vote FOR no-deal tomorrow
Finally a vote for an extension on Thursday.
It seems to me that Thursdays Extension is a bit of a moot one - if we don't vote for No-Deal tomorrow (assuming May loses tonight) then the same numbers will also vote for an extension, but for 24-48 hours we will be as close to disaster as we've ever been.
It's a real rollacoaster, as in it's exciting, but terrifying all at the same time - still, we can change the colour of our passports, wow.
So everyone seems to be suggesting a general election if the vote goes against TM tonight.
Not sure that really solves anything though. Can't see Lab or Cons getting a big enough majority to force something through.
Not sure that really solves anything though. Can’t see Lab or Cons getting a big enough majority to force something through.
It shakes things up a bit... might get a majority who are not labout or conservative or forced to work together. Any government or party we elect this spring will probably not last a year of Brexit
No more bets please
Her Majesty's government is in a bit of a state...
Any winners or are we rolling over to next time?
Same time next month?
Willard is the closest , only 4 out
So is it just me that's sort of slightly edging towards wanting a no deal? I'm an ardent europhile, but this whole thing is a ****ing mess, and the ABSOLUTE LAST thing I could stand is seeing the country going to shit and some vile lowlife scum Brexiteer saying it was due to the fact that we didn't get a 'proper Brexit'. I want nowhere for these scum to hide when it goes to shit. I want these basturds to stand up and be counted and to admit that they ****ed our country good and proper.
And if it takes Armageddon for that to happen then......
(Except we know that come what may, they won't take responsibility)
I think I'm going to close this now. It's served its purpose and is now a parallel discussion to That Thread.