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Been having an argument on and off all weekend with my wife after her brother asked us a big favour.
So far (not that I should be counting my wife tells me) we have helped him (which normally means taking the lead as he isn't very handy):
- Put up about 60ft of fencing, which meant working until past sunset using torches as his wife 'needed' it finishing that day because they were going out the next day.
- Laboured all weekend digging out, weed membraning and dropping tonnes of gravel on a new drive - approx 30ft long.
- Wallpapered his entrance hall, stairs and landing (he tried to help, I ended up re-doing the stuff he did).
The one time I asked him if he could help me (dig out and lay a hardstanding for one car) he couldn't because 'they were busy'.
Now we have just been asked if we can help them move house because they can't afford* movers (we have 1 yr old twins so I am not entirely sure how he thinks this will work).
*They are spending an obscene amount of money on a new house and have recently been on a spending spree of unprecedented levels so if they cannot afford it, then I think they have no-one to blame but themselves.
So - is this guy taking the p*ss somewhat and I am right to question whether we should be helping him or do we 'do unto others as we would have done unto us' as my wife maintains?
You have collected your karma points, decline. Time is precious.
Saying no sounds reasonable, it's only going to get worse.
You're busy that day, offer to help a month later 🙂
Unless you've missed out the part of the story where he gave you one of his kidneys, then you've been more than good.
That bad back of yours is playing up again isn't it?
Glad someone sees my side of this! No doubt convincing my wife that her 'ickle brother' (who is, to be fair, being influenced heavily by his wife I think) will remain difficult to do.
As it stands, I have to give up an entire day on Saturday to help them move in. Thankfully we had a prior engagement on Sunday so I have got out of a full weekend of labouring.
That bad back of yours is playing up again isn't it?
LOL - it ****ing well will be by Saturday night 🙁
This appears to be more a question of how important this is to your wife?
The fact that you are asking the question means that, for you, the goodwill has already passed.
Although your wife might not think so.
But you will still do it anyway won't you 🙂
Just to play devils advocate...
Have you considered that the [i]one and only time[/i] that you have asked for a favour in return that they may have genuinely been too busy?
It's a very small and unreliable statistic to be drawing any conclusions from..
We have a set of seemingly quite insensitive favour asking relatives that are quite hard to stomach at times.. but I'm fairly sure that they only behave that way with a genuine desire to be equally as helpful if asked to do so..
there are giversa nd takers in life clearly they are a taker and will continue to do so untill you stop giving.
I would litterally explain at as you have here and say that you can no longer assist until help is reciprocated...you could tell him to get stuffed though your choice. Perhaps the twins could have bad night and you are very tired and perhaps clumsy and drop a few things. Perhaps you could always help and do a rubbish job so they stop asking.
I dont help people who dont help me why bother?
Be clear and firm, offer help but, say, only 3 hours so he can arrange further help from some other source. Then he'll get the hint that you're not there for his convenience. He's sure to have friends?
toys - that is a very good point and I know I will end up doing it to keep her happy.
There has been one other contributory factor in my ill-feeling - about 2 years ago they were broke and we were buying a new telly - so we 'gave' him our old Sony widescreen. Now he is earning good money and his recent spree has included a huge wall-mounted telly (plus Sky+ HD etc). So now the tv we 'gave' him is sitting in the kids playroom. I know we gave him it, but I felt that it would have been polite to at least ask us if we wanted it back once it stopped being their main telly.
Ahh well - I can see my wife's point of view too - I guess I will just have to put up 🙁
Have you considered that the one and only time that you have asked for a favour in return that they may have genuinely been too busy?
Well yes, this was possibly the case, but it was more the way it was delivered - it was just a 'no' and move on, not to be mentioned again. When he has ever asked us, we have replanned other things or said we can't do it on x but can on y and made things work.
Standards really are slipping...wee in his shoes as you move them, own him with bombers or coerce your wife through a series of deeply manipulative statements into performing outrageous carnal acts to secure your moving services. That's what I'd do.
Not to your wife though of course.
LOL
Perhaps I am just being a miserable old bar steward I don't know.
lol, I'm in the opposite situation, need to ask the missus BIL if we can borrow the Volvo to move house.
Then need to ask him if he'll give up his day off to help swing the engine out of the midget.
On the other hand I did cook their entire family (2+2) and her mum and dad a full roast dinner with all the trimings which probably cost as much as paying to hire a van!
I think you're justified in saying "no" and sticking to it.
be polite, firm and explain that the favour seem to be only flowing one way.
If it was kust me involved I wouldn't have a problem with saying no, but I have the added complication that I want to keep my wife happy, she wants to remain on good terms with her brother and we are legal guardians to each other's family too - so the last thing I need is a fallout.
Perhaps the turn up, screw up route is the best way to go - I'll offer to install their new telly and drill it to the wall - with holes drilled right through the front of the set 8)
How about saying 'I'd be glad to help mate but im busy that day doing the (insert name of job that he declined to help you with)'
Of course if the wife wants to help thats her lookout.
Genuine friends and close family can never use up their favours.
As others have said, you have earned your karma points.
😯On the other hand I did cook their entire family (2+2) and her mum and dad
I hope they were tasty you fine young cannibal you! 😆
No idea what you should do, but I'd hazzard guess that saying "Heh, I've been on a bike forum, told them all about him, and they agree with me." might be a risky opening gambit 🙂
NZCol - MemberStandards really are slipping...wee in his shoes as you move them, own him with bombers or coerce your wife through a series of deeply manipulative statements into performing outrageous carnal acts to secure your moving services. That's what I'd do.
Not to your wife though of course.
What's up with [b]mastiles_fanylion[/b]'s wife, are you saying she isn't nice? 😉
make your own requests.
either
a new bike no questions asked
lots of sex, in various positions, on demand (from your wife, not him)
you'll need to cash in quick too, or she'll forget. try and get at least a new frame up front.
No idea what you should do, but I'd hazzard guess that saying "Heh, I've been on a bike forum, told them all about him, and they agree with me." might be a risky opening gambit
Well yeah - I guess I was just trying to gauge whether it is me being unreasonable or not. I know I will be doing it come Saturday. Perhaps I use it as a favour to be cashed in from my wife (ie, I spent last weekend helping your brother, do you mind me taking the bike out this weekend)?
bigrich - beat me to it 🙂
that is a very good point and I know I will end up doing it to keep her happy.
long experience on my part says this does not work 🙁
Don't do it, you've been generous enough.
Often the people best able to afford to pay for services (sounds like your brother in law) are those who take the piss the most.
My brother has a similar attitude, can afford most things (he is a GP) but relies upon free grandparental childcare 7 days a week, yet recently had off me a 6x4 metal shed & a large metal dog cage, the shed needed replacement so I'm not bothered about that, but the dog shed was usuable & probably saleable somewhere - size wise equivalent to the £100 model in Pets at Home.
In the longer term it turns out he's relied on financial handouts from out parents to pay the mortgage in the past. Nice......
Needless to say I'm often busy if he needs a hand, but sadly he usually asks our father or his father in law, neither of whom seem to have the ability to say no to him (decorating hall, stairs & landing, anyone??).
Maybe different things work for different people SFB? Just a thought.
How many rides is it worth? Bargainign chip with the wife? 😉
Based on what has been said here is does appear to be a bit one way. People are odd though and make strange choices - or what appear to be strange from our perspective. I assume you have had the conversation with your wife that says I don't really want to do this?
Maybe different things work for different people SFB? Just a thought.
No, doing things for other people's reasons against your own inclinations only ever breeds resentment.
Genuine friends and close family can never use up their favours.
Spot on. If you are busy say no, if you are free do it, let karma sort out the rest.
Enough is enough....................................
so I've fowarded him this thread to avoid any embarrassment. 😉
It's like kids really isn't it. You are continuaing to reinforce their bad behaviour by accepting it without challenge (experience gained from Super Nanny, I should clarify).
I think they need a few weeks on the naughty step.
I'm just trying to not interfere with other peoples spouses for the moment.
Often the people best able to afford to pay for services (sounds like your brother in law) are those who take the piss the most.
In the past I haven't really had a problem with helping because they always were the ones struggling for cash and needed help as they weren't able to afford tradesmen, but they are clearly not struggling any more (hence being able to afford the new telly etc and this big house move).
I assume you have had the conversation with your wife that says I don't really want to do this?
Yes - it is what we have been arguing about all weekend and she feels we should set aside any 'scoring' of favours and just help because he is family.
EIT: When I say 'arguing' it isn't shouting, just discussing - we don't really argue as such and are very open and honest about things - she knows exactly how I feel on this one just as I know how she feels.
Ah sorry SFB, forgot for a second there that you are the oracle 🙄
I wouldn't do it....
Annoys me when people clearly have the money to spend on certain things (generally 'nice' stuff) but then 'can't afford' to fork out on practical things and expect mates to help out or provide for them.
It's OK up to a point if it's a genuine need, but when someone has made the choice to spend their money in a certain way meaning they then have to rely on others to fill in the gaps, it quickly becomes a favour too far.
You can't really say no and I think you know it. Your missus is keen for you to do it, so there it is. I'd do it but I'd be very slow, take many tea breaks and make it abundantly clear that I wasn't keen. Also well worth damaging the back just prior to.
You can't really say no and I think you know it
Yep - got it there. I know I can't not do it without fallout. If my wife felt like me about it we could have constructed a reason not to help (say something like 'we have two one year old babies that need caring for and we want to spend our weekends together as a family seeing as dad works all week'). But she wants to help so will make it work and I get a day lugging boxes and not seeing my girls. 🙁
One of you is going to be looking after the girls while the other humps boxes, why not suggest that you stay home with the kids while she helps.
That way she gets to help her brother, you get time with the kids and no-one is falling into traditional gender roles.
I hope that they take you out to dinner at least! Have similar problem with one of our neighbours and some friends. The wife being a soft touch has taken the neighbours little girl to school about half a dozen times now and all she gets is a text saying thanks!! Perhaps a bottle of wine or actually come over and say thanks would be nice. Incident with our friends truly stunned us tho, we'd paid for the four of us to stay in Manchester over night after a gig. First round at the bar he turns round and says you get yours and we'll get ours! All it would have taken was a don't worry mate I'll get these to say thanks! Perhaps we expect too much from people at times!!!
I've always been lucky that favours are always repaid by family and friends usually with interest.
I would take him aside and say that you weren't thrilled that he asked bearing in mind you don't see your girls all week and had made plans to. I doubt he will tap you up again.
But she wants to help
then obviously she should do it
[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/may/08/change-life-asker-guesser ]Your brother in law (or his wife) is obviously an asker. I suspect you may be a guesser. [/url]
One of you is going to be looking after the girls while the other humps boxes, why not suggest that you stay home with the kids while she helps.
That way she gets to help her brother, you get time with the kids and no-one is falling into traditional gender roles.
Other than then falling out with the in-laws for allowing my wife to do loads of lifting. I won't win this one, no matter how I approach it 🙁
get a divorce
Think that the "couple of hours just to get you started" idea's a good one. Maybe your BiL just needs to feel a bit of blokey "problem shared" vibe and the confidence to get stuck into what might be a daunting task. Maybe not getting much help from his Mrs. Perhaps in future just offer to be on the end of the phone if tips are needed but to be "a bit tied up" if your presence is required. Maybe worth having a "so, what you got planned" chat from time to time to help him think through and anticipate what jobs might involve, to plan better for himself and build confidence that he can manage better alone.
That bad back of yours is playing up again isn't it?
This without doubt.
It saves face all round.
Speak to your wife and explain that you think you've done enough for them now. Yes, they are all spent out at the moment but like with anything its not unreasonable for people to take time improving their own homes anyway.
Say it in a nice way. Plus- say you want time with your own family to destress from your working week.
Now, imagine this. You really do pull your back out next time. I've done this. Two weeks with a bad back. No thanks.
You wont win with that attitude :-). You need to stand firm mate, or it'll never end. Only one of you can actually do any work, theres no reason it should be you. If you asked your Mrs to do something cos it was girls work i'd imagine you wouldn't get far. If thats the case she cant complain, and as for the inlaws, its them that are making her do the heavy lifting- not you.
Just let her know that in a real emergency you will be there with bells on, but that you are not prepared to give up valuable time to keep helping out when theres no real need or reciprocation.
Ok.
Speak to your wife and agree that you will give them 3 hours help to move.
speak to your wife and offer this as a compromise/a one last bit of help.
After this- your wife must agree that you've done your bit now.
That sounds reasonable also say that you'll be round at 7am and can stay till 10 am as you want to spend time with your kids. That way breakfast loses 1/2 hour and tea breaks another 20 mins.
I don't think any excuse will work this time around - my wife knows I am not happy about doing it so any excuse will be spotted before I can utter it (she knows me way too well).
I suppose I just wanted to know that I wasn't being unreasonable in thinking he is taking the Michael and that appears to be the case.
I will just have to ensure he is asked the next time we have something big to do* and if he can't do it (now that my wife understands how I feel) then I feel I will be justified in refusing to help any further.
*If all goes well in negotiations with the farmer next door, that will be a big fence to erect, several trees to dig out and a lawn to lay 8)
IMO you've done your bit, now it's time for him to get off his ar5e.
Sometimes we just need to look after ourselves (and our own time, priorities, etc) instead of "always" being there for others.
I've practiced this more and more in the last couple of years and it's remarkable how less I've been "hassled" in that time (and yes, that's taking into account the better half's feelings towards friends and relations).
Is his missus fit?
I suppose I just wanted to know that I wasn't being unreasonable in thinking he is taking the Michael and that appears to be the case.
And has your view point been validated adequately by a bunch of randoms on an internet forum then?
My view, fwiw (which should be bugger all to be honest) is that you decide what you want to do and do it, if you want to take into account your wife's views then go for it.
to take into account your wife's views then go for it.
It is a partnership. So the OP needs to compromise.
Don't forget his missus is probably aware quietly about her younger brothers over-spending and is quietly worried about him.
My own bro in law got into a right pickle once. His own fault but I had to step up to help HER mind/worry.
I suppose I just wanted to know that I wasn't being unreasonable in thinking he is taking the Michael and that appears to be the case.
And has your view point been validated adequately by a bunch of randoms on an internet forum then?
Quite a few of whom dis-agree and think your wife is correct. 🙂
"I will just have to ensure he is asked the next time we have something big to do* and if he can't do it (now that my wife understands how I feel) then I feel I will be justified in refusing to help any further."
MF - just what I was going to suggest
Don't forget his missus is probably aware quietly about her younger brothers over-spending and is quietly worried about him.
openly is - as are his parents 🙁
In that case you are helping your wife and parents. Hes not asking you for money- thats a no-no but you are giving your time. I'd help him this one last time.
Jees yes - I hope it would never come to that - especially as we don't have any to give.
But thanks for the voice of reason all. I will go along at the weekend and try to give my time without any ill-feeling. Let's just hope he doesn't then ask for help decorating the new gaff or I fear I may kill him.
Is his missus fit?
I can never make my mind up - any beauty within remains hidden by my growing resentment to all the favours asked of us.
Don't assume that favours will be eternal though. He just wants help getting up and running.
He just wants help getting up and running.
Well yeah we thought that when we helped them get their last place knocked into shape. Hopefully this will be their last move for a long time - my wife has also helped them with another move a few years ago but I *was* busy that weekend - but she drove 250 miles to get there and ended up elbow deep in bleach cleaning their old bog as she couldn't bear to leave it in the filthy state they were prepared to leave it in 🙁
Ahh well, best not bear any resentment he says, continuing to rant....
best not bear any resentment he says
a neat trick if you can do it, which I doubt...
LOL at mf "discussing" things with his missus.
We discuss things in our house too, same result mate (unless you finally put your foot down)
I'd do the favour personally, family 'n' all, but you do need a hard word with the brother - or his wife, (NOT yours, in this case)
Hang on. They have previously used you guys on at least two other houses?
Unless they have reciprocated at somepoint I really do feel its a poor-show.
The etiquette (to me) is both sides know what is acceptable to ask (or if they know its abit much)- they voice/admit this.
If its numerous times and essentially a one-way street then no.
Growing up was the younger brother used to being given/spoilt?
Growing up was the younger brother used to being given/spoilt?
He was by my wife - she has always doted on him and will do anything for him.
And yes - this is the third move and now, thinking about it, I helped him move into the house he has just moved out of too...
The little....
Speak to your wife and say ok 'how many moves'? Agree that we will do this one last thing for him then he has to stand on his two own feet'?
Judging by the size of this house (and the accompanying mortgage) I think this will be the last one. If he moves again he can pay a team of butlers to move everything for him, then walk him to the new gaff in a gold-plated sedan chair...
Talking of big mortgages. I know someone who has recently bought a house for £430,000 that the previous owners paid £250,000 for just two years ago.
I can't get my head round HOW its worth that much.
Simple. It's because that's how much someone is willing to pay for it.
Economics FAIL hora.
Oh it is a nice house and in a good location. Its just not THAT nice.
Watching Location Location Location this week there was a house in Cheshire for £430,000 in 3/4 acres that was amazing.
Now that is what I'd call VFM.
The issue is with your wife ignoring how you feel
Read all this because it strikes a massive chord with me - had a vaguely similar situation recently with my Dad and his new girlfriend. I spent about two weeks over the course of three months elbow deep in all the filthy junk my Dad had accumulated. The problem is that he not only collects cr@p, he's very unwilling to let anyone chuck or burn it - it's a form of minor insanity.
Made worse by the fact that the house belonged to my still living grandad (now in a home).
I've had more stand-up-and-chuck-stuff-at-each-other arguments with my Dad recently than I've ever had with anyone in my whole life, and on the last trip, the girlfriend also pushed me over the edge. Hopefully the damage isn't too permanent - we have since spoken on the phone....
Family stuff is always a mare.
EDIT; someone mentioned that because the OP is in a partnership, he always has to comprimise. True to an extent but there are times when feet must be firmly stomped down.
I find it strange that someone is looked upon poorly for simply asking. As a family we end up being helped and helping all the time for different projects. If someone needs a van i end up being called. If someone needs something like a patio laying we all chip in. I ended up with a lovely decking being laid a couple of years ago.
If you think he is taking the pee are you having a go at him for asking too many times or are you kicking yourself for not asking enough? You admit earlier that you have only asked once. Maybe he is sitting there asking his wife if you dont like him enough to ask.