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Well, just to update.
Ive just had an email back from the credit card provider saying they have gone back to the merchant and asked for a full refund.
Not sure entierly what that means or if the merchant can refuse etc?
I'm talking about incidentals that are being incurred because of the garage's inability to resolve this quickly.
Ah, OK.
Yeah, that'd be a final kick in the teeth for the garage after they've had to process the credit card refund...
Which is great news!
I don't know if the garage can refuse, but I guess the risk is they don't get to process that credit card in future, which they'd definitely not want.
If it's the same process I went through with Booking.com last year the first stage is just a request and each stage will take time. I would suggest asking the CC provider for clarification of the process.Well, just to update.
Ive just had an email back from the credit card provider saying they have gone back to the merchant and asked for a full refund.Not sure entierly what that means or if the merchant can refuse etc?
As far as I'm aware on this, the CC company will _ask_ for a refund first. The dealer can transfer the funds to them and won't incur any fees. If this doesn't happen within the CC's proposed timescale (and I don't know what that is), the CC can enforce a chargeback through the dealer's card processing provider, the company who owns and runs the card machine(s) the dealer uses. At this point, the dealer will also have to pay significant fees.
I run a small bike shop and we've never actually had to deal with this, but as far as I know our card processing provider's chargeback fee is about 8%.
Ive just had a reply back from the CC and they have said that if the claim is upheld and the merchant refuse to pay, then the CC would pay out. However they may ask me to go to we buy any car and see what they offer and if its less than the contract amount then the CC would pay the difference.
They then go onto to say that at this point the outcome of the claim has not been finalised.
They give the merchant 7-14 days to reply
Ive just had a reply back from the CC and they have said that if the claim is upheld and the merchant refuse to pay, then the CC would pay out. However they may ask me to go to we buy any car and see what they offer and if its less than the contract amount then the CC would pay the difference.
They then go onto to say that at this point the outcome of the claim has not been finalised.
They give the merchant 7-14 days to reply
How can you sell a car that doesn't work/has multiple issues to WBAC ?
How can you sell a car that doesn't work/has multiple issues to WBAC ?
'Cos they'll buy *any* car?
How can you sell a car that doesn't work/has multiple issues to WBAC ?
They will buy anything. You may not get much for it but they'll buy it,
Most people don't tell WBAC of the faults (especially if they're looking to maximise their payment).
Actual chuckle at the naivety! Why do you think their offers are so low? Yes they have to make profit by selling it on to trade etc, but they also need to take into account the large number of people that palm off absolute lemons on to them that they then can't even get on the trailer as they've just put a rod through the block.
WBAC is British Car Auctions, they know exactly what cars are selling for at their auctions and price accordingly.
if the merchant can refuse etc?
They can try but the card company will remove their merchant services ability. Which will hurt cashflow somewhat.
Any update on this ?
Nothing yet.
Waiting to hear from the credit card who are in turn probably still waiting to hear from the car garage. I believe they give them 7-14 days to respond
Good luck Renton, I'm sure you'll get it sorted.
WBAC will knock off £2.5k for warning lights on the dash.
Mind you they must pay peanuts as the employees sometimes don't mind if you cancel the lights with an OBD reader while they try to get a photo of the dash with the lights off............. Allegedly.
Luckily there are no warning lights on at the moment.
I’m hoping the garage will just stump up rather than the WBAC option but I’m not holding my breath
Just as an update:
No news really. Tomorrow is day 14 of the credit card giving the merchant 7-14 days to refund. Ive sent a couple of email to see if there were any updates but had no reply.
No contact with the garage either.
This is all starting to really stress me out and run me down. Im not giving up though.
**** me gently with a chainsaw, is this still going on?
If you can get as far up here as Whitefield I'll pour coffee down your face and give you a cuddle. Binners is on standby for emergency pastries.
This is all starting to really stress me out and run me down. Im not giving up though.
I admire your determination. Try and focus on the fact that when this gets sorted out those shysters will be having a far worse day than you will be enjoying.
Just out of mild curiosity I sent the list of parts required to the local Seat main dealer.
The cost to supply and fit all the parts required is £4600. I know thats main delaer prices but wouldnt expect it to be much cheaper through an indie garage.
Ive had no contact with the garage since my last email and lefdt it in the hands of the credit card. As it stands with them my claim hadn't been upheld two weeks ago but they still contacted the dealer asking for a full refund.
Stick with it @Renton the end is in sight!
Sounds like you should get resolution soon. Fingers 🤞
Yeah the wheels can turn slowly (sorrry for the pun).
The time may have expired for the garage, but it might take a few days for the credit card company to reconcile the reply (or lack of) and get back to you with a solid update. These things are never quick.
Good luck, they sound like total theives... and if the charge back fails, you might just have to sue the garage personally, but hopefuly it won't come to that!
I managed to speak with my case handler at the credit card yesterday.
She informed me the last contact she had with the garage was the 17th when she sent them the independent report. Apparently they simply aren’t replying to her.
She had to give them 7 days to respond to the report which is today.
She did then say she has a meeting with her manager to discuss my claim either late yesterday or today. Once she had that she said she would come back to me.
It’s all such a slow process.
Just found this thread - what a crap situation. Good on you for sticking with it - hopefully the credit card company now follow through and chargeback etc. Sounds like the dealer has just stuck their head in the sand and hoping it goes away.
Sounds like the dealer has just stuck their head in the sand and hoping it goes away.
That was exactly my experience when I did a chargeback last year. It's as if they know they are in the wrong but are determined to make the whole process as slow and unpleasant as possible.
Sounds like the dealer has just stuck their head in the sand and hoping it goes away.
That was exactly my experience when I did a chargeback last year. It's as if they know they are in the wrong but are determined to make the whole process as slow and unpleasant as possible.
That's the weird thing, rhhr wheels are in motion albeit turning slowly they are just delaying the inevitable
It's the Ryanair school of refunds - don't pay until you're standing on the courtroom steps because there's a chance the claimant will give up before then.
Just had an email from my credit company case handler.
My case has been passed to the senior management team for a decision.
She is now on leave until early October so has passed my details to a colleague.
If I haven’t heard anything by tomorrow I have to call them.
My head is in tatters with the stress.
Got everything crossed it goes in my favour. I’ve done everything they have asked.
I don't understand why a 'decision' has to be made – surely it is a formality?
I don't understand why a 'decision' has to be made – surely it is a formality?
I'm sure it will just be a case of the senior manager checking that the process has been followed rather than any active consideration.
Any update from the credit card company Renton?
Sorry missed this.
It got handed over to senior management on Wednesday for a decision.
I’m still waiting for that to happen. I’ve phoned a few times to be told that the seniors have been off or have been in all day meetings so not got round to it.
Today I phoned to be told they get 7 days to review before they have to give a decision.
Sounds like I will need to wait until Wednesday for that to happen then.
Maybe to stop you fretting, we were on a long train journey on Saturday, opposite us was a long term bank employee, who had dealt with all sections of banking in his long career. I asked about the S75 payout, he reckons there is no way they can not pay you out. It may take time (apparently, there is a lot of fraud going on, e.g. cars bought for £10k, then, a false invoice is made out for £15k, and they try to claim back £15k).
What surpised me was it isnt Barclays/Lloyds/Tesco who lent you the money, it is Visa or Mastercard. All credit card purchases are (well, most) settled by the big two, the bank who issued the credit card is just an agent who takes a small fee each time you use it.
He was surprised that the Car Dealer hasnt sorted you out, as there are some big consequences in having a S75 against your business. If they dont repay the bill to Visa/MC then they will be hit with large fees for any card use, along with an alert going to their Bankers.The CC Provider can remove their access to receiving card funds too, so when a dealer has such a claim aganst them, they usually try to sort it before the CC Co. get involved any further, as it is going to cost them even more in the long run if they dont refund or repair the vehicle.
FFS this is turning into an odyssey. They might get 7 days to review but do they need to take them all? I suppose you should at least know the outcome soon and I hope it is a positive one for you.
Second hand cars are a minefield. After seeing a couple of colleagues buy lemons from very dubious dealers I decided to go down the leasing route and seemed to have saved myself a bunch of stress.
I am just running myself down stressing over it. I just need an answer one way or another so I can move forward.
It’s messing us about as a family too as I’m having to drop the wife at work early so I can use her car etc.
Obviously have everything crossed for a positive outcome.
What @alanl said.
In a perfect world it would only take a week or two, but when there are multiple checks and balances in place, regulatory requierments etc,and multiple parties involved, it just doesn't happen that fast.
If the dealer is a very small business the result could be ruinous for them, so its not a process the CC company are likely to rush though.
I'd mentally try to park the thought for a week or two, and assume you have to make other arrangements in the meantime.
If the dealer is a very small business the result could be ruinous for them, so its not a process the CC company are likely to rush though.
IIRC, it is a Car Supermarket isn't it?
If the dealer is a very small business the result could be ruinous for them, so its not a process the CC company are likely to rush though.
Read the rest of the thread. The business isn't small and they have previous, this is their MO.
Ah yes...dunno where I got that notion from, and I've read and replied to the thread previously, haha! Any whoo, the main thrust of what I'm trying to illustrate is these things aren't quick. Don't sit by the phone, get on with your life, chase them up in a week.
Contacting for updates so often will just result in frustration... the wheels turn slowly with these things, but they don't stop.
gutted this is still going on for you but im not surprised.
@cougar - on the basis that the pensions ombudsman has told me it will be 10months before any adjudicators will look at the case I've raised against my friends employers, I would hope Renton doesn't have to resort to the financial ombudsman....
Still no news.
I had an email off the case handler last Wednesday saying she has escalated to senior management for a decision and that if I hadn’t heard by Wednesday evening give them a call as she was going on annual leave until 6th October.
So I’ve phoned most days since then and been given all sorts of excuses such as manager in a meeting or it only got escalated on Monday or they had 7 days to review.
That 7 days was yesterday and so I gave them another call and spoke to the bloke who I spoke with on Monday who told me on Monday that they had until Wednesday to review.
Yesterday he said it had only been escalated on Monday but I should hear within 24 hours. That 24 hours has passed and I’ve still not heard.
I’m starting to feel guilty for chasing everyday but I just need a bloody answer one way or the other.
Don't feel guilty - they made commitments which they have failed to meet. Be a pest and leave them in no doubt that you are annoyed.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease!
No you should not feel guilty.
I'd be giving them a deadline, say, noon tomorrow. Then make a complaint if not spoken to.
A squeaky hinge gets oiled. (Edit: Sorry Cletus, I'd missed yours)
Keep calling them.
Ok so, update time.
Not the response I was hoping for to be honest, but the senior manager has reviewed the case and had decided to give the garage one final opportunity to do something about it.
As they arent sure if the garage is still trading or not, the Section 75 team have sent them a recorded letter yesterday given them a final chance to contribute to the remedy of the situation. Apparently they get 7 days to reply one way or the other. They are trading by the way and still have cars on autotrader for sale.
To say I'm a little upset is an understatement as the case handler has already contacted them twice and been completely ignored.
All so bloody frustrating as the way the people were talking when I've phoned was that it was just going to the senior management for a final approval and it would be done and dusted.
It was the same guy who Ive spoke with a number of times this week and he has now basically said the original claim handler is back next week and she will be able to give me updates going forward.
Presumably by “doing something about it” they mean refund you as per their legal obligation to do so under the CRA rather than repair the car. If the latter I would reject that on the basis that they have failed thus far to do anything properly and have issued a fraudulent MOT.
I'd be complaining to the bank/CC company about that lack of progress as well. They're regulated, so your complaint will end up with the ombudsman (cost them 650 quid). Make sure you lay it on thick about being without car, family needs, appointments etc etc.
I am confident that you are going to get all your money back, but not about how long it will take.
Complain to the Credit Card company. Make sure they know that is an official complaint. They have 8 weeks to resolve it for you, ie cough up. After that you can escalate it to the Financial Services Ombudsman, and as above, this will add cost to them.
I would also point out to the CC co that other costs are mounting up. You are insuring and taxing a car that you cannot drive. Make it clear that you expect these costs to be reimbursed too. The longer it drags on, the more it will cost them, especially if you escalate to the FSO.
You are 100% in the right. Don't stress. Just follow the process and it will settle in your favour. Make sure you have documented everything regarding your contact and lack of action from the CC co. While you have a good recollection, write down the timeline. Look at your phone to see the number of calls, when they were, and write a note of each one.
If you want to get forensic, also write to the CC co with a Subject Access Request asking for the transcripts of all your calls and copies of any internal communication relating to your case. Tell them the reason is for your upcoming complaint to the FSO. They have 1 month to provide the info, but your message will be clear to them before that. If they don't comply you can also report them to the Information Commissioner's Office.
Keep going!
What trouty said.
the senior manager has reviewed the case and had decided to give the garage one final opportunity to do something about it
"Ah, cool - if we can pick and choose at our convenience which terms of the legal contract that we both signed actually apply, then I choose to ignore all the ones that say I owe you money."
Nothing yet.
I havent chased them this week as Im too nervous and worried I might pee them off.
The case handler was back from annual leave yesterday so I was hoping that she may have answered an email I sent her but nothing yet.
I'm guessing they are waiting for the garage to receive the final letter and then the 7 days they have to reply.
HUGE UPDATE TIME !!!!!!!!!
Just off the phone to my CC provider: CLAIM UPHELD !!!!!!!
They want me to take the car to we buy any car and get a price from them and then the credit card will make up the difference. I guess that saves any issues with them paying me out and then having the car stuck around on the drive until the garage decided to collect it.
Relief is an understatement !!
I would just like to thank everyone on here from the bottom of my dodgy old heart for all the help, support and guidance you have given me. Its been absolutely amazing and kept me on track.
Will keep you all updated.
^^^ that's the post we've all been waiting for! Bet that's a huge relief.
Thank **** for that.
Good news. Shame they had to drag it out for so long, but at least you got there in the end.
Hurray
That's great news, Renton.
I've been lurking on this thread with little to add but it's good news that you've got a satisfactory result at last.
Great news!!
Now bets please.... its back on the dodgy garage forecourt in 2 weeks time.
now a sweeper on the WBAC value
Yay!!!!!!!
I'll have it for £500
Good on you Renton. The outcome was inevitable and I appreciate that it didn't always feel like that.
So do the CC company reclaim the balance from the original dealer? If so I'm hoping WBACs offer is even more derisory than usual - I'd make sure they are fully aware of every defect!
So do the CC company reclaim the balance from the original dealer? If so I'm hoping WBACs offer is even more derisory than usual - I'd make sure they are fully aware of every defect!
Absolutely! And perhaps be a bit "clumsy" around the car and put a few dings in every panel 🤣
But great news, Renton. It's just a shame the car was mis-sold to you originally, that garage needs a equally shoddy review also.
Hahahaha yeah....oops .... accident.
Fantastic news. I assumed they used their weight as you'd put the deposit on a CC (not all) so they can go after the full value ?
Must say, that retailer didn't give me the right vibes when we went poking about for a Traveller/Vivaro Life etc... some fab cars up front, but the digging about in the rest of the 'showroom' the issue was the vehicles I was after had some major bits missing from all of them - they had about 4-5 in stock (for a rare vehicle).
I'd be having a chat with the WBAC bloke that's having a look at it and explain the situation 😉
Indeed. You're basically under instruction to sell at any price, so say so. £10 you say? Don't be daft, make it 10 pence and its yours!
I hate buying cars, and this thread is why!
Glad you got there Renton - what a faff....
Great news Renton!
Another lurker-follower here happy that you got this outcome but sorry you had to go through the wringer to get there. If there was any justice they'd have to compensate for stress caused. Well done for sticking with it.
Also hoping I never have to buy a car again, though my 17 year old Berlingo probably hasn't got another 17 years in it.
What an utter PITA that turned out to be! Completely unnecessary on behalf of the seller - I hope it costs them enough to make it equally painful.
I know that there are many, many car purchases that are 100% uneventful but this thread reinforces why I rarely change cars (average is about every 10-12 years) and buy used from a main dealer with a big warranty.
Glad you got sorted in the end. Fingers crossed for the replacement car 😬
Great results. Shocking it's 2 months since you started the thread!