How long before the...
 

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[Closed] How long before the coup in Chile?

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Chile have elected a young lefty as president.  going on past experience in south america this will lead to a US backed coup.

My bet is by april


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 9:12 am
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It's not the 80's any more, Venezuela and Uruguay stand testament to that.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 9:18 am
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As opposed to the old lefties that the Republicans think was elected in the US?

I really hope we've moved on from that lunacy, but in the modern world, I'm not confident.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 9:20 am
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Venuzuala - the US attempted a coup there only a couple years ago and one in 2002 and also in Boliva a couple of years ago- both times for the crime of electing a lefty


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 9:21 am
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-53686509


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 9:23 am
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Trouble is, in South America, presidents on both sides of the political spectrum can often turn out to be pretty extreme, and end up practically indistinguishable from each other. Certainly US involvement in the past, usually with the CIA, has seldom seen a result that’s anything other than a catastrophe for the country concerned.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 12:48 pm
 grum
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The trouble is we still don't know what happens when a leftist president gets to be in charge in SA without a massive internal/external campaign to undermine/topple/kill them.

For all that Chavez turned into a dictator, having numerous US-backed plots to kill you almost as soon as you are democratically elected could well have lead to some pretty extreme paranoia/authoritarian tendencies coming out. We'll never know I guess.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 1:18 pm
 tomd
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@grum, Chavez was a military officer who went on to organise a coup against the democratically elected government in the early 1990s. To suggest that he only later developed some sort of anti-democratic tendencies is frankly absurd, weapons grade leftist conspiracy theory nonsense.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 1:31 pm
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The trouble is we still don’t know what happens when a leftist president gets to be in charge in SA without a massive internal/external campaign to undermine/topple/kill them.

Didn't Uruguay have a left wing government for 15 years. I think they've only just lost control a couple of years back to a centre right collation. Uruguay is a beacon is south America, it's scored consistently highly in world stats around standards of living, safety, trust in the govt and so on. Real success story.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 2:12 pm
 grum
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I'm not really saying that. I'm just saying that even if we did have a strongly socialist leader with impeccable democratic credentials in a S American country he would still be targeted by the US and internal vested interests, still be the subject of shady plots, foreign spies/agents insurrections, subterfuge, psy ops, agents provocateur, death squads, terrorism, economic sanctions etc etc - I would imagine it would be quite hard to maintain your commitment to democracy and human rights in the face of all that.

And if you think I'm being a conspiracy theorist all of the actions above are documented and publicly available in the CIA's records, and that's just the stuff that's documented/not redacted or time-locked.

Edit: Uruguay was probably saved by having no oil or gas reserves.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 2:17 pm
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Grum is right on this.

Uruguay is small - thats how they have got away without this.  Anyone closer to the US or bigger with a bit of power - its differnt


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 2:25 pm
 tomd
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You mean like Evo Morales in Bolivia? The one that we actually had for 13 odd years. Or Dilma Rousseff in Brazil for that matter.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 2:26 pm
 grum
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Where is Evo Morales today? How is he getting on within his old political party? Did the guardian cover his me too / child abuse tribulations?

Who lasted a whole 5 years

She did really well - 4th longest serving president in Brazil's entire history. Very few Brazilian presidents ever get re-elected, which she managed to do.

I’m not really saying that. I’m just saying that even if we did have a strongly socialist leader with impeccable democratic credentials in a S American country he would still be targeted by the US and internal vested interests, still be the subject of shady plots, foreign spies/agents insurrections, subterfuge, psy ops, agents provocateur, death squads, terrorism, economic sanctions etc etc – I would imagine it would be quite hard to maintain your commitment to democracy and human rights in the face of all that.

So you're saying that if something that has never happened, or is likely to happen, happens then the US would *probably* sabotage it but the existence of this fact means that the original supposition can never happen? It probably needs a few pints before it makes sense, but OK.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 3:06 pm
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Are you really trying to claim that leftist leaders in south america do not get relentlessly undermined by US paid operatives and often coups run against them?

FFS two attempted coups in Venezuela this century!


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 3:14 pm
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I for one look forward to right wingers talking about "the chilean miracle" and the chicago school again.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 3:26 pm
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Venuzuala – the US attempted a coup there only a couple years ago and one in 2002 and also in Boliva a couple of years ago- both times for the crime of electing a lefty

Thats how the USA operate internationally - they want thier cut (whether it be oil, coffee or cocaine) so will sell cheap arms to whatever movement they favour &install a puppet regime given half a chance.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 4:03 pm
 tomd
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Are you really trying to claim that leftist leaders in south america do not get relentlessly undermined by US paid operatives and often coups run against them?

FFS two attempted coups in Venezuela this century!

Chavez was involved in two coups in 1992, let alone 2 decades. I assume left wing coups good, right wing bad? I don't doubt that the US attempts to influence events beyond its borders. As does every other large state since Sumer. Have they messed things up? Yes. Would Chavez have turned Venezuela into a paradise without the US? Unlikely. Defending Chavez and Maduro is a pretty ropey place to be - nothing is black and white but they are responsible for an immeasurable amount of harm.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 4:05 pm
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Chavez was democratically elected was he not?  so what are these two "coups" he was involved in?  Maybe I have forgotten.  Enlighten me!

Maduro reduced poverty and increased literacy hugely


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 4:08 pm
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February and November 1992


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 4:21 pm
 grum
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As with most things, it's a lot more complex than saying 'Chavez bad' or 'Chavez good'. He was a complex character.

So you’re saying that if something that has never happened, or is likely to happen, happens then the US would *probably* sabotage it but the existence of this fact means that the original supposition can never happen? It probably needs a few pints before it makes sense, but OK.

If you want to just be all snarky and ****ty and obtuse then go you I guess.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 4:22 pm
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Ta Nickc -= an episode I had forgotton


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 4:24 pm
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Strictly speaking I think he was in jail for the second attempt, but in contact with the organisers at the very least.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 4:25 pm
 grum
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Would Chavez have turned Venezuela into a paradise without the US? Unlikely.

This is the very strawiest of men.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 4:27 pm
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Maduro reduced poverty and increased literacy hugely

And is responsible for the worst human rights abuses in Venezuelas history.
This Amnesty report is worth a read before making any more silly comments.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 4:40 pm
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Just read about Pablo Escobar (Medellín Cartel), the Cali cartel, and the CIA and the Columbian government if you really want to go down a rabbit hole of corruption and foreign political interference, lol!


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 4:43 pm
 tomd
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Amnesty report is worth a read before making any more silly comments

Don't be silly, no point actually reading so-called sources before launching off on a sixth form common room rant about the Great Satan.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 5:15 pm
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You really are daft and childish.  How naive you are.  name calling?  shows you lost the arguement


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 5:19 pm
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How left is this new leader in Chile? Are we talking communist or more sensible lefty? The latter probably being an extreme communist in the eyes of the US


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 5:23 pm
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Not really clear but far enough left to get communist endorsement and far enough left to upset the US

BTW - I made no comment about how good these deposed leaders where in general - just the basic point that if a central or south american country elected lefties the US will soon launch coup attempts and destabilisation efforts as they have done for a many years


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 5:27 pm
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Just done a bit of reading up on him and he doesn’t seem bad. Chile has been through a lot and hopefully he can instigate some positive change. I imagine it will be difficult with roughly half the country being very right wing and having the US interfering. Best of luck to him.

The US need to sort their own backyard out. Place is basically a third world country in places.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 5:33 pm
 tomd
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just the basic point that if a central or south american country elected lefties the US will soon launch coup attempts

It's still a pretty incredible claim. The South Americans are very capable of organising their own coups, he has more chance of being taken down by Chilean rivals for Chilean reasons.

Actually on a side point, Chavez got into bother with the Columbians for interference in their civil war. Of course only the US interferes abroad.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 5:49 pm
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America

Its a pretty damning list  Even if some of them needed overthrowing theres a good chance they were put there by the US!


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 8:10 pm

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