[Closed] How fast are police cars allowed to go.....

No need to have sirens and lights going, they're just there to warn other road users. Driver must be able to justify any law breaking though, e.g. speeding or running red lights. Same applies to all emergency services. You can speak to the Duty insepctor if you think it was out of order

Are they allowed to exceed the speed limit for the road that they're on?

They have to drive at the speed limit if not answering an emergency but dint know if that means they have to have lights on (for example they may not want to draw attention to their approach).

As far as I am aware they are supposed to obey speed limits unless attending an emergency (blues n two's).

I once got pulled by a police car I was following at 80mph on the Leeds ring road. The passenger got out and asked if i was aware that I was speeding , I just told him I was doing the same speed as his driver. He called me a smartarse and just walked back to the car shaking his head.

I thought they could do pretty much what they wanted. They seem to round here.

Interesting, on my way home tonight we were overtaken by a North Yorks Police Ford Ranger.

We were doing a stread 68(ish) mph, they left us (relatively) standing. My friend who was driving had to get up to nearly 90 (by his speedo) to keep pace (not condoning this sort of speed at all).

NYP vehicle maintained speed in excess of 80 for the next 12 miles 😯 and overtook on 14 occasions without indicating.

Was going to nip into the local police station to have a word but was rather overtaken by events at home.

Worth mentioning?

Worth mentioning?

...if they don't have their blue lights or sirens on?

Are they allowed to exceed the speed limit for the road that they're on?

I though that without the blues & twos they should stick within the limit for the road....."

No they can exceed the speed limit without activating public warning equipment. There is no requirment under the Road Traffic Regulation Act to turn on the pwe. Forces may have local regulations / guidlines regarding speed limits in certain areas and under certain circumstances but they would be force specific.

 

[url= http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/49/section/19#text%3Dspeed%20limit ]Link to legislation[/url]

In short, there is no specified maximum speed they can do, it isn't specific about when they can and can't exceed the limit (only that "if the observance of that provision [the speed limit] would be likely to hinder the use of the vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion"), and the legislation does not specify when lights and sirens must be used. It's up to the driver to justify both the speed and the use or not of lights/sirens in the circumstances of whatever they were doing.

EDIT -

Forces may have local regulations / guidlines regarding speed limits in certain areas and under certain circumstances but they would be force specific.

Worth mentioning?

Do you want to make an enemy, who will always have the upper hand?

A police car is aloud to go what ever speed it wants with out lights or sound as long as the justification is there:

examples:

road wars today, keep up with a known robber and gain distance before the robbers were aare and pegged it.

Attending any form of hostage situation if necessary where tensions are high

Suicidal person, not wanting to cause harm or prompt in the taking of a life?

A police car is aloud to go what ever speed it wants with out lights or sound as long as the justification is there:

*allowed

😆

Wombat:

All the replies about police being able to exceed speed limits in appropriate circumstances are basically correct. The police are very sensitive about police officers demonstrating sensible and lawful driving habits, for obvious reasons. If you feel as frustrated about this as appears from your posts then a quick email to North Yorkshire Police's Professional Standards Department (Email from the NYP website) will make sure that the driver in question is asked why? But only if you have the registration number. If you haven't, don't waste your time.

NYP vehicle maintained speed in excess of 80 for the next 12 miles and overtook on 14 occasions without indicating.

Sounds like a good progressive drive

pretty much seem to go at whatever speed they like where I live, one rule for some and another for the boys in blue.

'speak to the duty inspector' would be a complete waste of time as nothing will get done (from experience)

Are the lights and sirens not just there to warn people around them in case they might not spot them? So they're pointless if they're just coming up behind you and going to overtake cleanly? What they're doing and where they're going is of no interest to me, unless they were doing something dangerous around me and not warning me of their presence, and I don't think breaking the limit while overtaking cleanly necessarily constitutes causing a danger.

what tyres for speeding .

Bungie, thanks for that, I don't have the reg no so it wouldn't be worthwhile to send an email on this occasion.

I find it more than a little frustrating that this driver displayed lower driving standards than I would expect from a member of my staff driving a non police vehicle on the public roads. The total lack of any use of the indicators for 14 overtakes over a 12 mile distance was the main thing that struck me.

I'm irritated that it appears (possibly only occasionally) that there is a bit of a "do as I say, not as I do" attitude.

The driver's actions were not unsafe, the road was pretty qiiet, dry and visibility was good but it appears to me that poor driving by those who should be setting an example isn't really sending out the right messages.

A pretty poor rant really... 😳

I'm pleased that there in a hurry, it means they're trying to get some graft done 🙂

We were doing a stread 68(ish) mph, they left us (relatively) standing. My friend who was driving had to get up to nearly 90 (by his speedo) to keep pace (not condoning this sort of speed at all).

NYP vehicle maintained speed in excess of 80 for the next 12 miles and overtook on 14 occasions without indicating.

Was going to nip into the local police station to have a word [b]but was rather overtaken [/b]by events at home.

So you were speeding to begin with, then sped up to chase a car that you thought was driving dangerously, and followed it for a number of miles whilst matching it's 'dangerous' speed, I'm assuming you also had to partake in similarly risky overtakes though maybe you used indicators? And you think the police will be interested in THEIR driver breaking the law?

LOL at being overtaken by events at home, was Topgear on?

Can't speak for other forces, but my own limits standard response trained drivers to drive at 20mph above the posted limit, although unofficially in a national speed limit it's as fast as is safe. Traffic Officers and Firearms officers are trained to a higher standard and are not limited.

As has been mentioned lights and siren don't have any legal status as such, and are there as a request for motorists to move over. There are any number of scenario's where a police officer needs to make progress, and blues and twos aren't always a good idea.

The driver's actions were not unsafe, the road was pretty qiiet, dry and visibility was good but it appears to me that poor driving by those who should be setting an example isn't really sending out the right messages.

Reasonable point, but not something I could be bothered writing home about to be fair. If there wasn't a reasonable chance of me wanting to overtake too (i.e. if there was a massive gap between cars) then indicating is a bit futile anyway. Indicating before overtaking someone really only tells the person behind not to try overtaking you (which you shouldn't be doing as they're speeding) and the person in front that they're about to be passed so not to go for their own overtake. So if they've assessed the gaps are massive and are doing 80, it's not much of an issue. As a fellow road user I'd be more worried about you and your friend driving at 90 to chase them, that seems somewhat stupid and more worth writing home about.

wombat - it might be worth complaining even though you don't have a reg number, but you can specify an accurate location and time period to narrow the search down. I know of one police force that can, and does use technology (GPS) to identify the location of vehicles when a reg number isn't available...

I believe the ceiling is around [s]140mph[/s] 159mph (sorry), as tested in court

unless, of course, the copper is on duty

This is at the excessive end of things:
[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/8028666.stm ]Clicky linky[/url]
There can be no excuse for those events. As stated above, any exemption for being outside the law have to be justified, speed, relative speed in relation to a hazard, etc. In a given circumstance 20mph on lights and sirens could be deemed excessive.

Are we really, seriously, considering complaining about an emergency services vehicle that could well have been attending an incident but didn't use his indicators while overtaking while discussing it with someone who openly admits to chasing said car while not trained, not capable and blatantly flouting the law? Singletrack has become a minefield of morons!

On the point of indicators, I was trained to pull out if safe, get a view of the road ahead, and if safe accelerate past the car. If it's not safe, you pull back in. We never used indicators, as it didn't work with that system of overtaking.

No police officer I know or work with would even consider pulling someone for not indicating on an otherwise safe overtake, let along sticking someone on for it. I'm not sure it's really a case of 'do as I say, not as I do", because it ain't the law to do it as far as I know.

What's your fav flashy novel ^^^

On the point of indicators, I was trained to pull out if safe, get a view of the road ahead, and if safe accelerate past the car. If it's not safe, you pull back in. We never used indicators, as it didn't work with that system of overtaking.

That's interesting, why can't you indicate in that case? Surely you can indicate that you're pulling out and should you choose to return, just cancel and indicate the other way (or just cancel and pull back in)?

While I've no idea about the law requiring or not requiring indicators, the highway code does suggest you should do it and all it's diagrams include indication.

Thead hijack ahoy! The first one, of course.

An interesting video demonstration of overtakes from a police driver discussing overtake techniques:

8:20ish in usually brings up a lot of controversy, but is justified (discussed elsewhere) in that he can see clear road for about a mile or so, visible for about 30 seconds before the overtake, and so could see there was no opposing traffic on the way. Not sure I'd have gone for that one though personally!

harryflashman - Flash for Freedon is my own. John Charity Spring being the highlight.

coffeeking,

On a police driving course you are trained to a very specific system of car control – indicating during response mode is a distraction from having your hands positioned at the 10 to 2 position on the steering wheel.

+ 1 for Coffeking!

I don't even know where to start with this thread! You are going to complain and tell the police that you know this as your mate was speeding when you haven't had any training (I presume). As for commenting on indicators there is no requirement by law to have indicators fitted (let alone have to use them) to a vehicle. The Highway Code advices that you do. Advanced police drivers are taught to consider all their actions, if there is no need to signal as they are not going to impede or impose on anyone they are taught not to, it's a wasted action. one more thing to do that you don't need to do when you are concentrating on driving.

As for GPS on police vehicles, it isn't GPS! It's uses the radio in the car to get a signal for positioning, plus they won't use that for a piddley complaint like this. Do all the people who complain about their cycle thefts not being investigated then want to tie up officers time with something as trivial as this?

OMG I want to quote myself

On a police driving course you are trained to a very specific system of car control – indicating during response mode is a distraction from having your hands positioned at the 10 to 2 position on the steering wheel.

Oh ok, I was thinking more about road position etc than "in car". Cheers for the note. Still a tad confused as my indicator stalks are AT 10 and 2 on my car so they're ideally placed, but I suppose that's not the case on all cars and to be honest I'd rather a fast driver were thinking about car control than letting me know they were considering overtaking me (after all, it only becomes a problem when they're out next to me and I'll see them approach fast and move out there).

Advanced police drivers are taught to consider all their actions, if there is no need to signal as they are not going to impede or impose on anyone they are taught not to, it's a wasted action. one more thing to do that you don't need to do when you are concentrating on driving.

(if that video's from the A65 near skipton, I've done the same 8.20 overtake 😳 )

That's interesting, why can't you indicate in that case? Surely you can indicate that you're pulling out and should you choose to return, just cancel and indicate the other way (or just cancel and pull back in)?

Maybe half the times you get your view you'll discover the overtake won't be on for whatever reason. Indicating in that instance would be misleading and a faff. The only time you are trained to use indication in an overtake is when there is a crawler lane.

But on the overall point, do you really want to put a complaint on that police officer's card, whether it's upheld or not, for the sake of the lack of indication during a perfectly safe overtake?

M_C / Mr M_C - mightn't it inform the driver in front that you're about to overtake and stop them pulling out or doing something else daft ? That's why I do it

I'd hope the driver in front would see you move to overtake, more likely they'll see a car move out than see a little blinky orange light?

either way, leave the driver alone!

(if that video's from the A65 near skipton, I've done the same 8.20 overtake )

I would, but not past a caravan - too wide and too unpredictable due to swinging ends and usually older drivers who might get upset by it.

Just watched that video, & i'll grant that the overtake at 8:20 is well judged, but the one at 4:16 where the dual carriageway (on the A59 Clitheroe) ends & he's on the [b]hatched markings[/b] isn't. Also the one at 8:48 where there is a [b]dip in the road[/b] wasn't a good move...

You wouldn't be overtaking in a position where the driver in front of you was likely to pull out, as an advanced driver your observation would be further thatn that driver, you would be looking for hazards, right turns etc. You will not rely on him seeing your indicator, you are the one executing the maneouvre and you are in control.

It's amazing how many people DON'T every look in their mirrors, they don't see you when coming with blues and two's on, so no hope ..... 😉

anyway back to the original point, as Coffeeking said don't bother.

& he's on the hatched markings isn't

It's not illegal to cross hatched markings with a broken border?

The one at 8:48 is questionable, but I presume that he knows the road and knows the dip isn't deep enough to hide a car (though that doesn't stop a very low car being there I suppose!) but he may have considered the duration he had the dip section and the road behind it (further from him) in sight gave him grounds to assume any car would have been visible by that point.

"I'd hope the driver in front would see you move to overtake, more likely they'll see a car move out than see a little blinky orange light?"

Well, no driver looks behind constantly, so them judging closing speed isn't necessarily going to happen. If you've gained on them fast they may need all the help they can get to see you at all.
Also, seeing you coming isn't everything - surely they'd be better off knowing what you're up to. If it's a marginal overtake, needing all that much concentration, your action is going to be highly unexpected for them so they may react oddly unless "warned".

Agree, there's no point in indicating as you change lanes - indicators are to show intention (makes me laugh how often the indicators come on after the lane change starts)

"either way, leave the driver alone! "

What driver ?

The police driver in question, not our hypothetical ones :).

Id suggest that if you're not looking behind often enough to see a car approaching and judge speed quickly you're not observant enough to spot their indicator either. And if you're scared into reacting oddly by a car passing quickly you shouldn't be driving due to a dodgy nervous disposition. But that's just me. I'd also hope that someone overtaking at speed would have checked there was no-one for me to overtake either, but it doesn't rule out me taking to the right hand side of a bend if there's good visibility, but I wouldn't do that if there were traffic behind close enough to overtake..... 🙂

as an advanced driver your observation would be further thatn that driver...you are the one executing the maneouvre and you are in control

I think you might occasionally influence the behaviour of the driver in front by giving them a clue what you're up to

Id suggest that if [b]one 😉 is[/b] not looking behind often enough to see a car approaching and judge speed quickly you're not observant enough to spot their indicator either. And if [b]one is[/b] scared into reacting oddly by a car passing quickly [b]one[/b] shouldn't be driving due to a dodgy nervous disposition. But that's just me.

Ed (I cycle with a blinky light on the back of my bike even in daylight - I think it's moderately well known that they can get you noticed)

Up here our we're only exempt when we use all our warning systems.. 20mph above speed limit gen ok and we use the same book as the police..
Mind you, if it's a kiddie or an arrest we don't really hang back..

Police traffic officers / pursuit trained cops are scarily good. One of the motorcycle magazines took a bunch of them out onto tracks and found even BTCC racers and BSB racers were impressed at the speed they do and the ability they had - and that was on a circuit. On the roads they are untouchable

Mind you, if it's a kiddie or [s]an arrest[/s] [b]the kettles on at the station[/b] we don't really hang back..

FTFY

Yes, police drivers are scarily good.....no, make that just [url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/3679954.stm ]SCARY[/url]

I'm sure you're peerless, mate, but you have seen the average drivers on UK roads, have you ??

I'm not quite sure why you've changed my grammar, both are correct but mine's a tad less pretentious.

I'm sure you're peerless, mate, but you have seen the average drivers on UK roads, [s]have[/s][b]haven't[/b] you ??

FTFY

not yer grammar ck, just kidding - removing the "you" (ie no longer possible to infer that you might mean "me" from my perspective and leaving a hypothetical driver in front)

not yer grammar ck, just kidding - removing the "you" (ie no longer possible to infer that you might mean "me" from my perspective and leaving a hypothetical driver in front

Sorry, I took that a bit personally 😳 😆

I was never intending it to mean you personally 🙂 Damn lazy Americanisation of English caught me out again 🙂

I was never intending it to mean you personally

We should make a club or something, maybe call it "advanced motorists".... 😆

is "awesome" taken already, then ?

Cardiac arrest Gary.. And the kettles always on.. We have one of those ones that's plumbed into the mains and constantly puts out hot water..
Most of the time we drive pretty sedately really..

I was pulled over by traffic cops last Friday night as I returned to Bournemouth from a day in Brighton.

I was well over the speed limit and felt sure I was about to get some points and a fine. The policeman was very chatty, asked what I'd been up to, spotted my girlfriend sleeping in the passenger seat then said 'Well, I don't want to spoil your day' and advised me to slow down a bit. With that he returned to his car and drove off.

I like the police even more than I did before now! 😀

8:20 is the B6255 to Hawes, a fantastic drivers road. If anything he left the overtake a bit late as was only pulling back in approaching the next corner. Many bikers and nice sports cars use that road at interesting speeds so perhaps was a little daft as some one could have been coming the other way greater than 100 mph.

So Mr Wombat... you followed a Police car for 12 miles at 90 mph, did you? Thanks for the admission; do you want the fine now?

[i]I don't even know where to start with this thread! You are going to complain and tell the police that you know this as your mate was speeding when you haven't had any training (I presume).[/i]

?

don't get this comment.

I've reported the police for appalling driving on several occasions.

1) Police car driving down pedestrianised high st with blue lights but no sirens (Buses & Taxis only) at something like 50-60mph. The sound of a high revving engine caught my attention so turned around to se what it was... A pigeon then landed on the ground to nibble on some crisps which had been dropped and the police car attempted a rather messy emergency stop and ended up broadside across the st. - Driving fail. phone call to the local police station.

2) Police car overtaking on blind corner again in town centre with lights and sirens on. There is a vehicle coming the other way which I can see because I'm across the road watching the whole thing, thinking this is going to be messy. Fortunately the two vehicles just about stop in time with about a 1-2foot gap between both front bumpers. Phone call to the local police station.

3) Following a police car driving down the M4 between Bath and Swindon, the car is a Ford Focus, it's 4up and travelling at around 90mph by my speedo. The weather conditions are pretty bad, pouring rain, it's November. The car overtakes without indication on several occasions is blown across the lanes by the howling wind. Fortunately this happened when there were no other cars nearby. The driver makes no attempt to slow down despite clearly not being in full control of the vehicle. Phone call to the local police station.

4) Driving down the M40 I pull over let a police car overtake me. The car then accelerates to in excess of 100mph with no signals or sirens. I follow it for about five miles watching the car push other road users out of the way by tailgating - phone call to the local police station. When asked how I know the vehicle is travelling so fast I explain that I myself am driving in excess of 100mph and am only just able to keep up with it.

5) Another police car speeding on the M4 near Bracknell with no emergency signals. Reported.

Kev

3) Following a police car driving down the M4 between Bath and Swindon, the car is a Ford Focus, it's 4up and travelling at around 90mph by my speedo. The weather conditions are pretty bad, pouring rain, it's November. The car overtakes without indication on several occasions is blown across the lanes by the howling wind. Fortunately this happened when there were no other cars nearby. The driver makes no attempt to slow down despite clearly not being in full control of the vehicle. Phone call to the local police station.

4) Driving down the M40 I pull over let a police car overtake me. The car then accelerates to in excess of 100mph with no signals or sirens. I follow it for about five miles watching the car push other road users out of the way by tailgating - phone call to the local police station. When asked how I know the vehicle is travelling so fast I explain that I myself am driving in excess of 100mph and am only just able to keep up with it.

In response to the OP's

How fast are police cars allowed to go.....

If there's an armed intruder in your house, "not fast enough!!!"

Like Dibb's response! Oh so true. .. you just can't win as a bobby nowadays!!!
Keva .. I don't even know what to say other than OMG do you not have better things to do? Okay 1 & 2 fair enough to report those. As for number 5 you have no idea what was going on, where they were going etc. Plus another muppet agreeing they were following at speed... so not that dangerous then??

The op wants to complain about the police's driving after they were chasing the police car at 90 mph.

PMSL 😆

I followed a police van for a long stretch down the M1 once. We never did less than 90, and mostly closer to 100.

The only time it put its blue lights on was when I tried to overtake....

And they could have just as easily put their lights on and done you. More to the point is you didn't want to complain about their driving.

Has anyone else noticed that when an emergency vehicle comes past with lights and sirens going, the reaction of about 90% of drivers is to stamp on the brakes and point the car in towards the kerb? Absolutely *NO* thought about whether it would be more appropriate to continue to a point where the road wouldn't be blocked as you're right opposite a traffic island or something....

Not only were you driving the same speed but you were also on the phone? Good job!

Has anyone else noticed that when an emergency vehicle comes past with lights and sirens going, the reaction of about 90% of drivers is to stamp on the brakes and point the car in towards the kerb?

Can't say I have to be honest. In the US you're taught to pull over when an emergency vehicle comes up, which is a bit strange really as if you leave it slightly too late it causes a real problem. Doesn't work here of course because the roads are too narrow. I have seen people do some stupid things to get out of the way of EVs but mostly people seem to be quite reasonable. Especially at traffic light junctions where people have to go on red lights to get out of the way, and everyone is very sensible about it.

As far as I know not, unless they're in unmarked cars and trying to lure you into speeding so they can nick, yes N. Wales Police I knew who you were!!!

I always thought that it depends on driver training. Your basic bobby in a panda car isn't supposedly allowed to break speed limits, whereas your traffic copper with advanced/pursuit training is in certain situations.

Similarly, a friend that used to be a paramedic told me that ambulances are not allowed to break limits, and any accident caused by them jumping red lights/overtaking etc. can be seen as their responsibility.

(Mr MC posting)

all response trained officers can break speed limits, so that includes local bobbies in 1.3 astra pandas as well as traffic (now called roads policing) in big vectras etc.

Many forces have a +20mph policy, where they will only support you up to 20 over any posted limit, and if you have an accident etc they will disclaim your driving and try to effectively rescind your legal exemption despite their policy having no place in law. It is a farcical policy, one local example is the eastern bypass in oxford. Dual carriageway with central barrier so should be (and used to be) a 70mph. Due to one freak accident years ago it is now a 50. As there are no fixed cameras the traffic travels at 70. So on an emergency run with "blues and twos" we can only travel at the speed of the rest of the traffic 🙄

I have my advanced police ticket and it is an intense course, most of it spent driving at speeds that you (initially) feel uncomfortable with. My mid-course feedback was that I was too cautious (!), but I put this down to 20yrs of year-round motorcycling developing a state of near paranoia to potential hazards.

the reaction of about 90% of drivers is to stamp on the brakes and point the car in towards the kerb?

Unfortunately 90%* of the drivers are so wrapped up in their own world that they don't even notice there is an emergency vehicle behind them.

*Not a statistic.

the reaction of about 90% of drivers is to stamp on the brakes and point the car in towards the kerb?

I have noticed that 90% of the people that NOTICE there is an emergency vehicle behind them do that (stopping adjacent to traffic islands, on junctions, on roundabouts etc).

Even worse they'll pull over to the kerb without looking. The first time I was knocked off my bike I heard a police car approaching, stopped on the kerb directly behind a parked car, idiot behind pulls over straight into me.

Most bad police driving is at slow speed when they are trying to multi task. If a police car is speeding it will be doing it for a reason. The Driver will have to justify their actions in the event of any speed camera tripped or concerned citizen ringing in . Few police drivers would wish to lose their ticket and face a disciplinary for tooling around at speed when they will get plenty of legitimate high speed experience any way.

From the OP's description of what he saw it seems fairy obvious the police driver was driving well and with a purpose so why not trust there was a good reason behind it?

What does the two's refer to in blues&twos? Blues, lights, obviously, but twos?

twos - two tone sirens

Nbt where do you work?

I work in an office in Cheadle :). Was in GMP but quit before finishing basic, wasn't right for me (or rather I wasn't right for them)

Police cars are allowed to indicate right then actually turn left, according to one fat sweaty copper I had cause to remonstrate with once. Knob.