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Seriously as I lie in the bath pondering.
For example
When we lived in caves there was no such thing as a door...didn't exist so who decided ....we will call that a door lots of things never existed we'll they did but at that point in time they didnt or we invented them so how do they get names
HOW STONED R U?
I'm not I'm just looking at my toes which are next to a tap....I lived once with some Argentinians and they don't have a word for toe....then I wondered who decided that was a tap
A wee guy called frank from the ministry of naming things sorts aw that oot. François sorts out the french, Franco does the spanish.
Latin. All Latin!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gate
Just one little example how things move along, uses, evolution, shortening etc,etc though I reckon there are probably some longer versions in a few PHd's that cover it better 🙂
Ancient Greek was the roots of modern English. Check it out.
In Spanish, foot is 'pie' and 'deda' is finger.
Foot finger? But I'm thinking literal translations here. There doesn't seem to be a literal word for word, word for toe.
Disclaimer: I'm not good at Spanish.
What did we call etymology before language existed?
In Spanish, foot is ‘pie’ and ‘deda’ is finger.
Foot finger? But I’m thinking literal translations here. There doesn’t seem to be a literal word for word, word for toe.
That's exactly what they said....I remember saying something about toes and they were like what's a toe....
There are new things all the time which someone has to make up a word for - helicopter for instance.
That's the thing with modern English, there are lots of precise words for very specific things in very specific contexts who's meaning can change a lot.
A lot of languages are a lot more organic and descriptive.
That said, we don't have to grapple with masculine and feminine, if I got caught using puta instead of puto in Spain, I'd never live it down. 🙂
The French missed a trick when naming bats, they called it a bald mouse when they should have called it an aero mouse 😋
Ancient Greek was the roots of modern English. Check it out.
Sure about that? There are the Indo-European roots, from Sanskrit, then there are the early British/Celtic languages, Anglo-Saxon, Roman...
The French missed a trick when naming bats, they called it a bald mouse when they should have called it an aero mouse
The Germans got it right. Die Fledermaus.
In some instances its also as if some things don't exist until we name them (rather than having to create a name for something newly created or discovered)
Different languages see or fail to see certain colours for instance. In the UK we didn't have a work that distinguished between red and orange until we started importing oranges. Up to that point we'd have described anything that colour as 'red' and we still have names for things where 'red' is used for something we now see as orange 'red hair' 'red squirrel' 'red deer' - non of those things are red as we now see it and yet the colour we now call orange was always there.
In other languages theres no distinction between blue and green.
Mattyfez, you'd likely be in trouble for puto anyway!
Bat is sagu zaharra in Basque, ie. Old mouse
Evolve?
I think "devolve" would be a better description if my Year 11's are anything to go by.
Amongst others:
1.... The inability to pronouncing the "Th" sound. Apparently the hench bloke from Asgard was actually called "For." Equally, "free" is the number after two and before four and "deaf" is what you experience when you shuffle off this mortal coil.
2..... Not understanding that the thing you stand on when outside is NOT the floor. (It's the ground, stupid!)
3..... Using phrases such as "Can I go toilet?" instead of "Can I go TO the toilet?"
4..... "Do you like my new jacket? I BROUGHT it from Primark"......ahhhh!
5.... "Off of the telly" etc (I blame Bloody Chappers!)
etc etc
The French missed a trick when naming bats, they called it a bald mouse when they should have called it an aero mouse
The Germans got it right. Die Fledermaus.
Very descriptive, the Germans are very good at descriptive names. See also the DSG gear box!
Luftmaus would would be good 😃
Yup.... Always liked the Greman word for "submarine."
Unterseeboot.
Amongst others:
1…. The inability to pronouncing the “Th” sound. Apparently the hench bloke from Asgard was actually called “For.” Equally, “free” is the number after two and before four and “deaf” is what you experience when you shuffle off this mortal coil.
The difference between 'Th' and 'F' is easy to feel in the mouth but its extremely subtle to the ear. Although in the case of your kids it'll probably be an adopted/culturally learned mannerism for people who are speaking a second language and especially people who are illiterate the difference is very difficult to hear - you need to back up of having seen and 'felt' the words to easily hear the difference.
But perhaps the real question is - can the kids not pronounce 'Th' or are you not hearing it? They presumably understand each other - theres no confusion as to which movie character they are talking about. Maybe your ears are out of date.:-)
5…. “Off of the telly” etc (I blame Bloody Chappers!)
Scott Mills.
It's ironic when the title is 'how does language evolve' and we have a teacher decrying language evolving.
The fact is that language is fluid, and many commonplace words today have a very different meaning from the same words a few hundred years ago. Grammatical rules change as well; in Chaucer's time it was perfectly acceptable to use a double negative as a means of adding emphasis:
"He nevere yet no vileynye ne sayde / In all his lyf unto no maner wight"
In response to the OP's question, the origins of language are keenly debated. From a philosophical point of view, the necessity of language to map to private mental states and ideas causes issues with its fairly obvious social function.
English has its origins in Indo-European, as do most European languages. Its relationship with Ancient Greek is much more distant than its relationship with Germanic languages; the most commonly used words in English are generally derived from German (blame the Saxons). Greek and Latin made their way into the language through scientific and technical terms (mainly from the Enlightenment onwards, when Classical civilisation and ideas were rediscovered).
JP
Simon_Semtex
Member
Evolve?I think “devolve” would be a better description if my Year 11’s are anything to go by.
Amongst others:
1…. The inability to pronouncing the “Th” sound. Apparently the hench bloke from Asgard was actually called “For.” Equally, “free” is the number after two and before four and “deaf” is what you experience when you shuffle off this mortal coil.
2….. Not understanding that the thing you stand on when outside is NOT the floor. (It’s the ground, stupid!)
3….. Using phrases such as “Can I go toilet?” instead of “Can I go TO the toilet?”
4….. “Do you like my new jacket? I BROUGHT it from Primark”……ahhhh!
5…. “Off of the telly” etc (I blame Bloody Chappers!)
etc etc
In fairness to the weans, you're the teacher. So, where should the blame lie? 😆
Maccruiskeen....... Sorry to hear that your ears don't work properly.
I'm away to help my Uncle Jack off his horse.
The devolution has gone a long way....
SIR ANDREW
But it becomes me well enough, does ’t not?
SIR TOBY BELCH
Excellent; it hangs like flax on a distaff; and I
hope to see a housewife take thee between her legs
and spin it off.
Doth thou not speak as we should?
in Chaucer’s time it was perfectly acceptable to use a double negative as a means of adding emphasis:
and in Glasgow you have the Double Positive
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There are some excellent books about how the English language evolved.
The Adventure of English Bryson
The Stories of English by David Crystal
Mother Tongue by Melvyn Bragg
What did we call etymology before language existed?
Ug!
According to my dad (retired English teacher), English peaked around 1980, and NO new additions, changes, or adoptions of americanisms are allowed. It was incredibly satisfying when 'text' as a verb was added to the dictionary and I could correct him out when he called me out for using it.
His favourite lingual beef just now is 'good' used in place of 'fine' or 'ok'. As in 'would you like a drink?', 'no thanks, I'm good'. Invariably an argument ensues. He knows exactly what I mean, as would anyone else, so it's only a matter of time before it becomes technically acceptable. Can't wait.
Edit: reading this back, he'd likely have something to say on this post too. 'I'm not an English teacher, I'm from Wick. I'm a teacher of English'.
There are some excellent books about how the English language evolved.
The Adventure of English Bryson
The Stories of English by David Crystal
Mother Tongue by Melvyn Bragg
The Adventure of English is Melvyn Bragg too, unless Bryson did one as well?
Grammatical rules change as well
There aren't actually any rules. Many of the things we consider rules were just style guidelines published by some chap in the 19th century, many of which were taught as rules by teachers on the basis they were essential if you didn't want to sound fick.
I found out recently that the Dutch have a governing body for their language, and they periodically change the rules so what you learned in school may not be correct anymore. Of course people continue to use what they were taught so there ends up being many versions in use.
and in Glasgow you have the Double Positive
Only in Glasgow? Yeah, right.
And the Spanish for toes is "dedos de pie", foot fingers. They don't have a word for "thumb" either, it's the "dedo gordo" (fat finger)...
Goes both ways of course, for example there's no English word for "sobremesa", that time spent chatting at the table when you've finished your meal.
There are some excellent books about how the English language evolved.
The Adventure of English Bryson
The Stories of English by David Crystal
Mother Tongue by Melvyn BraggThe Adventure of English is Melvyn Bragg too, unless Bryson did one as well?
Bryson wrote Mother Tongue I believe
…. The inability to pronouncing the “Th” sound. Apparently the hench bloke from Asgard was actually called “For.” Equally, “free” is the number after two and before four and “deaf” is what you experience when you shuffle off this mortal coil.
Which, along with glottal stops, was how my grandparents spoke. I bet you're a riot at parties.
I fancy a pint with kenneththecurtain's dad.
Language "evolves" by someone going on the internets and finding out what the Merkans use and then using that. Hence people going to the bathroom "slash" restroom to take a comfort break. When I were a lad* we went to the bog to have a slash (no quote marks). As you can see, the new way of speaking has empowered us to reach out to ourselves. Or something. IANAT.
* not long after Chaucer would have been "havynge a slashe".