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I think I have an understanding of the basic 'ground level' infrastructure. 5g isn't very good at penetrating buildings etc. So you need lots of small towers everywhere.
The smaller tower's communicate with a main tower. The main tower communicates with a satellite. But then what? In my ignorance. Is this what is behind the current billionaire space race? From ground level up isn't set in stone and is the new 'gold rush'?
It's undecided and the person/company who creates the framework which becomes commonplace becomes the 5g Google or Amazon. But on a scale which dwarf's them both?
5G doesn’t use satellites it’s all ground based.
It works by linking all the tin foil hats in the world together.
The billionaire space race is about delivering fast access everywhere. The 5g base stations will be fibre interlinked. Going via satellite introduces lag.
Building penetration depends on the frequency used, which is very varied with 5G. Sprint, in the US, is using 28 GHz which has lots of spare capacity but poor propagation, so they will need a lot of base stations to get coverage. A lot of the European operators are using various bits of lower frequency spectrum, which has less capacity, but better coverage.
A cell site looks a bit like this (it's an old photo of an O2 3G + Wifi site, but they all look the same, grey plastic box on a roof somewhere).
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/7176/6850108664_55907f7174.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/7176/6850108664_55907f7174.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/brjADN ]Soho Micro cell (3G + Wifi)[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr
It has to connect into the network somehow, in this case it uses microwave radio (the round dish top right) which 'beams' all the cell traffic a few km to what is known as a Point of Presence, somewhere with a fibre connection.
One O2 PoP is the roof of the Hilton Hotel, Park Lane, where you will find loads of microwave dishes collecting cell traffic from across London.
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/3733/9439968445_2ba659981a.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/3733/9439968445_2ba659981a.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/fobiJD ]VectaStar Access Points on Hilton Hotel Roof[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr
All the traffic gets switched into the core via fibre where it goes off to an O2 MSC (big core switching site) where they connect you to FB, Google, Amazon etc.
The only place you get satellites used for mobile network is very remote areas eg bits of rural Africa. Satellites are slow and expensive, so they generally only get used for voice eg 2G backhaul.
NB I design bits of these network for a living and have been on a lot of roofs!
5G doesn’t use satellites it’s all ground based.
So Starlink is a satellite system which can provide the internet rather than an integral part of 5g?
It works by linking all the tin foil hats in the world together.
Hence my question 😁
So Starlink is a satellite system which can provide the internet rather than an integral part of 5g?
Yeap. I think though am not sure the aim is to provide cheap, reliable, quick and low latency access for all. While making money of course.
So Starlink is a satellite system which can provide the internet rather than an integral part of 5g?
Yes.The end service will be similar but the handset design more complex as talking to LEO satellites flying overhead at 1000s mph is more complicated that chatting to a grey plastic box bolted to a wall somewhere.
As others have said, the main sites will be connected with fibre, some masts that are particularly expensive, or troublesome to get fibre to (near railway lines or motorways etc) can be linked to another mast via microwave.
We are starting to put 10gb fibre connections into sites but I don't think this is specifically for 5g, it's probably just to keep up with demand and extra resilience.
Newsflash for all you telecom nerds, Telent have extended support for System X until 2027!
Might actually have the hang of it by then.
Starlink - seems to be a cheap way of getting internet access to everywhere, I imagine this will take a few forms, such as handsets that work like a traditional sat phone and also base stations that provide local WiFi.
5G - As described above uses traditional fibre and microwave technology to provide links to a main network core, but also crucial for 5G moves some of the core network out to near the edge, I.e local to the handset/device, so that you don’t have all the data going from you to *London and back to your mate on the next table. Instead for some data types it will keep the data local to your area. This means much better performance for high bandwidth services like HD video and low latency things like machine control systems. It also allows for the prioritising of some device over others for quality of service and data throughput. *other network centres are available.
Some of the numbers talked about are nuts. As mentioned above 10gb fibre connections to the cells isn’t that extraordinary until you remember how many of the cells there are going to be due to the penetration issues also described above, that’s a lot of potential bandwidth per user.
I’m on the periphery of a 5G project so may have got some bits wrong, but it’s mighty impressive.
Soooo, just to show my total lack of knowledge on this, why is everyone up in arms about 5G, health wise, not China wise?
I could Google but feel the Singletrack massive's interpretation could me more fun/accurate!
Because they are ignorant, often with zero technical knowledge. Much easier to protest and break something than understand how it works or build a better version. The same people will have mesh WiFi network in their home, take a CT scan or fly without thinking:
https://www.businessinsider.com/flying-airplane-cancer-radiation-risk-2017-12?r=US&IR=T
Very few will take an engineering degree, then go and work at a telco or co like Ericsson and think about contributing to 6g / 7g etc...
Starlink – seems to be a cheap way of getting internet access to everywhere, I imagine this will take a few forms, such as handsets that work like a traditional sat phone and also base stations that provide local WiFi.
From what I can find out, the receiver will be the size of pizza box. The cost is unknown but suggestions are that it will be about 50% more than UK broadband. Cost will be massively affected by take up, and it could start off heavily discounted to build up the subscriber base - Tesla suggests Musk doesn't expect quick profit.
This seems like a good intro
https://www.howtogeek.com/423720/how-worried-should-you-be-about-the-health-risks-of-5g/
Telent have extended support for System X until 2027
That's extraordinary. I designed chunks of that in the 1980s, at this rate it could outlive me. It's a shame all the skills and knowledge we had then got dissipated rather than building on it so that we didn't have to rely on the Chinese for 5G, with all the problems that's bringing.
It spreads death through radio-frequency signals.
But, wearing a cardboard box on your head will protect you.
That dry cough you've got is just a packet of data being disseminated.
Thank you for all your replies.
Am I correct in thinking, when the Starlink system is up and running. It will be the end of slow internet speeds in remote areas with electricity. But I won't be streaming HD video on top of Helvellyn because there isn't a base station close by?
O2, EE etc will have their own core ground network. But will use Starlink to provide a service in remote areas. In a similar way too Giffgaff and O2.
Am I correct in thinking, when the Starlink system is up and running. It will be the end of slow internet speeds in remote areas with electricity. But I won’t be streaming HD video on top of Helvellyn because there isn’t a base station close by?
Starlink should provide global coverage eventually (when the 100s of satellites required are up there). It works by your Starlink handset talking to the nearest satellite overhead which then relays your traffic between a whole set of satellites till it gets to one which has a link to a ground station at which point it goes into the internet. Should work fine on Helvellyn.
5G on the other hand needs a 5G base station nearby, which is tricky in National Parks as they're ugly and difficult to hide.
O2, EE etc will have their own core ground network. But will use Starlink to provide a service in remote areas. In a similar way too Giffgaff and O2.
Starlink will have its own core network with Satellite ground stations feeding the mesh of satellites.
I am curious about Starlinks business model, 3G/4G/5G mainly works because of the vast economies of scale which everyone falling over themselves to provide chipsets and handsets, which means access is super cheap (think really basic phone).
Starlink on the other hand needs a completely different handset with completely different chipsets, which no one is making. They're not going to get the economies of scale of 3/4/5G nor have the fancy iPhone handsets which get you the premium customers.
But I won’t be streaming HD video on top of Helvellyn because there isn’t a base station close by?
I think it's lack of mains electricity that would stop you.
O2, EE etc will have their own core ground network. But will use Starlink to provide a service in remote areas
As I've understood it, you'll have your own Starlink box, with its own aerial, like satellite TV, and I assume you'll connect to it as you would a broadband router.
why is everyone up in arms about 5G, health wise
Morons be moronning again. A friend of a friend is all over this sort of stuff, after a little nudge from me a couple of days back he's currently shitting bricks over the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide.
‘dihydrogen monoxide’ brilliant, putting that one in the back pocket for work next week.
A friend of a friend is all over this sort of stuff, after a little nudge from me a couple of days back he’s currently shitting bricks over the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide.
🤣🤣👏🏻
I was being a bit slow on the uptake there. I thought a phone would be compatible with both systems.
If Starlink can get close to 5g on price and speed then I'm guessing it could take a large part of the market?
Do you think at some point in the future it will be possible to make a phone which is compatible with both systems? It just automatically switches between ground system and satellite depending on which offers you the best service?
I'm curious because if that became possible and Starlink is the system used globally the revenue would be enormous. I've noticed that some of the richest people in developing countries are in the telecommunications industry. If Starlink is taking a cut of that globally sending nearly 1600 satellite's into orbit makes much more sense.
I think that for us any satellite based system will be too laggy for voice calls or data capability. This will be the same for anywhere where there is already up to date cellular coverage. It’s the ‘developing’ countries where the cellular and broadband infrastructure isn’t as good where Starlink will make its mark.
Perhaps not for data consumption where the capability (cost) of the device is important to be able to render media content, but getting consistent, if laggy, voice or low bandwidth messaging calls is key.