[Closed] How do you pronounce 'Dolgellau'?

Doll Geth Ley

Doll Geth Lie
Doll Geth Lee

both correct

with difficulty.

It involves that welsh phleghm sound.

Doll Geth 'ch'lee

how the hell to you phonetically write 'll' 😯

Unless you're American in which case Doller Geh Loo seems to be the approved pronounciation.

Right. The LL sound is pronounced by putting your tongue as if you are going to say an L then blowing.

So it's dol gell eye

It's NOT dol gethl eye or dol gech lie or anything else.

Crazy legs, the au is ai not ee.

Talking of pronouncing stuff, what about "Thule", bike rack people?

'tooler'

Dolgellau

Simple really

[i]Crazy legs, the au is ai not ee.[/i]

IME it can be either, I know Welsh people who pronounce it both ways although 'ai' does seem to be more common.

Llllgh....llllwlwll....lllghhlll...lflflwlwllhhllll....

No. Can't do it. 🙁

To misquote Bill Bryson, Wales is full of places with names that sound like a cat coughing up a hairball 🙂

Dol gech lie...will get you near enough I reckon

tool eh....the rack pronunciation, not the initial poster 😆

Tongue in roof of mouth and breath out whilst speaking will work just practice needed (and a clear area in front of you!)

re place names never forget some English mates visiting me ...couldn't get over the fact that my village name had no vowels in it!

My Welsh Gran says Doll Geth Lee.

Many people pronounce other Welsh places in an English manner, e.g. Llandudno, and think that's fine but Dolgellau sounds completely different so Doll Geh Loo must be wrong but then that means that Lan Dud no is wrong too then? What say you?

Traveling by train a few years ago, from swindon to London, two americans asked if the train stopped at,
slofgh, or slooo, s-loou, eventually they said where they make mars bars, they meant SLOUGH.

Me and a mate stopped in a small pub , in mid wales a few years ago, wnt in and the pub looked as if it was out of the 50,s, so went to the bar and ordered 2 pints, handed over a tenner, and the drinks where slopped acreoss the counter, the fiver change was dropped in the spill, had our drinks, and then some more, gang of welshies walked in, and sat ruight next to us, the rest of the pub was empty, so we went outside , and do you know what, theyd painted my van green, green for gods sake, so me and dave getting angry went back in , me ex miner, dave ex marine, and said in a comanding voice whos, painted my car green, Silence, then a movement at the back of the bar, a man mountain stood up, 7.00 tall and arm like trees, a head like a rock and feet like boats, he proclaimed i painted you car green, any problems, me and dave looked at each other looked round the bar as everyone started to rise up, and i said in what hopefully sounded like an accepting voice,

DRYING LOVELY BOYO, NO DRIPS AND A LOVELY COLOUR.

Thanks all.

Not sure about that green paint post though - that supposed to be a joke?

[i]BOYO[/i] ?

Boyo is welsh for twunt, i think.

DOLL-GETH-LIE

couldn't get over the fact that my village name had no vowels in it!

They have bloody vowels in them, otherwise no-one would be able to pronounce them. Just because you can't recognise the vowels doens't mean they're not there - just means that you're ignorant.

That boils my piss too.

And it's not DOL GETH LEE ffs! And LAN DUD NOH is wrong too. Bear in mind that English speaking Welsh people can sometimes get the names wrong too.

Do you say Paris or Paree?

We just call it dog breath (we are English though) 🙂

Closer pronunciation thatn when I try muckallleth??

Both nice places though.

Not fond of c-y-b after really hurting myself there, handlebar/gut interface. Ow..

Conks

Crikey no wonder no bothers learning the language when you all get so angry 🙂

[b]BATH[/b]
Barf in the south

BAAAth up in the north

Then there's Tom Toms way!

Different region different Pronunciation

Crikey no wonder no bothers learning the language when you all get so angry

Quite agree! When we visited Bovec in Slovenia we were trying to find out, in the local pub, how it was pronounced. One group of locals said "Bovek" and the others said "Bovets", and a further one said "it can be either, depending on context"?? Finally, after none agreed, they all agreed it didnt matter so long as we were enjoying ourselves lol. Thats the spirit, no P boiling going on, and a welcoming attitude.

Damned pot noodle miners!

How about LLareggub?

Thule isn't pronounced 'tooler' it's 'toolay'

The nice (Welsh) chap running the hostel I stayed in when I did CyB told me it was pronounced 'Doll Geff ley'

But he spent a lot of the weekend drunk so who knows 🙂

PeterPoddy - Member
Talking of pronouncing stuff, what about "Thule", bike rack people?

When I phoned up the customer service phone line recently, the lovely sounding lady on the answer machine pronounced it "Too-lay"...made me feel a bit of tool for calling it "Thewl" 😕

Deffinitely Toolay, despite it sounding bloody stupid.

I thought it was just Doll Geth.

What about Machenelleth or however its spelt, heard some great ones for that.
and Leominster, thats in england and most englishmen get that wrong too.

How about St Ockwell?

BATH
Barf in the south

BAAAth up in the north

Eh? Can you define "south" and "north" because, as I read that, south = south east, and north equals everywhere up to about Oxford.

And is the world flat?

"They have bloody vowels in them, otherwise no-one would be able to pronounce them"

Try this one - str? prst skrz krk

Thats the spirit, no P boiling going on, and a welcoming attitude.

It's not the getting it wrong that I object to. It's the insinuation that the place names are somehow stupid because THEY haven't bothered to make the tiniest bit of effort (apart from the OP, apparently 🙂 ). I know there are plenty of places with Anglicised names around the world, like Paris for instance (we don't say Paree) but that's pretty much the exception. Most people will talk about Marsailles as Mar-say not Mar-sales and we don't call Agincourt a jin caught. So English people CAN do it, they just don't feel it's worth bothering with in Wales.

I don't really think it's because the English cannot be bothered, it's more like getting the information to learn it is like getting information out of some sort of secret pack. I was born and lived in Wales for the first 5 years of my life, so many of the place names are ingrained into me, but then I have lived in England for the rest of my life so there are many more I don't know. My friends are English and we visit Wales loads and pretty much all want to know more about the language and place names, but the locals can be so unhelpful sometimes it's untrue. It's a generalisation for sure, but there comes across an overall attitude that you have no business to be speaking Welsh if you're English. To be honest molgrips, your post doesn't do much to improve this impression.

And while we're on the subject, C-y-B the first word is NOT Code it is Coed, like coy but with a d at the end.

I've always called it Do-ga-loo....

And while we're on the subject, C-y-B the first word is NOT Code it is Coed, like coy but with a d at the end

Not to all people. Some North Walians pronounce it Co-ed (as in co-educational).

But I take the point, and agree.

Anyway you want, they're a defeated nation who work for us now (praise the lawd for Al Murray). Did a very memmorable weekender there a few years back. CyB one day, ByC the next, happy days.

BATH
Barf in the south

BAAAth up in the north

Eh? Can you define "south" and "north" because, as I read that, south = south east, and north equals everywhere up to about Oxford.

And is the world flat?

For a Yorkshireman, it doesn't get any easier to pronounce than Bath because it sounds exactly like it's written. Why the hell it gets called Barth or Borth is beyond me.

So then, how are you supposed to pronounce Slough (like plough?) and Leominster? (Linster?)

Come on then phoneticists - I give you "Llwchwr". Went there for a day many years ago and said it something like 'thlucker' as a best guess.

I was once asked how to get to 'Bicker-Nack-Re'. Took me a while to work out he wanted to get to Bicknacre (bick-nay-ker), but I could see his point.

but there comes across an overall attitude that you have no business to be speaking Welsh if you're English. To be honest molgrips, your post doesn't do much to improve this impression.

Well I dunno about that - on this thread I am trying to help people get it right, and I always do that in real life. I only get crabby when people take the piss continually - I don't think that's particularly outrageous. Many times when people have asked me how to pronounce something and I reply, they burst out laughing and say "WHAT???!!HAHAHA what the hell was that?!" rather than making the effort. It gets on your nerves after the hundredth time. That might be why locals get grumpy sometimes.

If you want pronunciation guides there are any number online, so you could always look there. There's only two sounds that aren't in English, and only one of those is a noise you don't know how to make.

Although perhaps a deeper reason for Welsh people being grumpy towards outsiders is that the piss is continually being taken, usually without any kind of respect given in turn.

Yeah, but people who take the piss so much look like narrow minded idiots. You have to learn to rise above it and not let them get to you.
The language does seem a bit difficult to grasp to the English, which I think the natural reaction is to laugh.

I'm with ksba, the correct pronunciation is Doll-ga-loo

Dol

Hmm I'm with traildog i think, Im fairly sure most English just can't quite figure out how they're meant to be said and since they rarely come into contact with such sounds they just give it their own twist. Like people saying crossonts for those little french bready things 🙂

We laugh because we struggle to see the link between what is written and what is being said, and often it seems even locals cant decide on how it's said, so how are we meant to say it without looking a tool? I'm sure most of the time the laugh is one of embarrassment at their lack of understanding and trying to cover it with bravado.

I hated french lessons because I couldnt stand the sounds in the language, I felt so "wrong" when using it that I just stopped trying, but didnt have any of that with German. Russian is the same, if someone puts a russian word in front of you and tells you what it says you just cant help but giggle as it looks nothing like it's written, and chinese just takes that one step further.

[i]And while we're on the subject, C-y-B the first word is NOT Code it is Coed, like coy but with a d at the end. [/i]

That annoys me too, people saying co-ed when it is, as you correctly say, 'coyd'. The other one that gets me is people saying 'betsy' (as in betsy co-ed) when it's actually 'bet-uss uh coyd'
I always liked Welsh although I never really got much beyond a dozen phrases and maybe 30-40 words. The problem is that a lot of English people don't speak any other language and, while some will make an effort for going on holiday abroad, most wouldn't even think about learning anything in Welsh (or Gaelic for that matter) since everyone in Wales, Scotland and Ireland speaks English anyway. That may not be the correct attitude but it's the way things are.

Previous addresses have included

Heol Doll, Machynlleth. (Hay-ol Doth) (Ma-kun-thleth)

Wallog (Wathlog)

And to finish I give you...

Gillfach yr Allt, Llanddeusant, Llangadog, Llanymddyfri Sir Gaerfyrddin.

. The other one that gets me is people saying 'betsy' (as in betsy co-ed) when it's actually 'bet-uss uh coyd'

Never once heard it pronounced like that, and spent a fair amount of time there!

,

Oops, I forgot the comma before Sir. Sorry.

Well my cousins from Penmachno pronounce coyd as co-ed, so they pronounce Betwys Y Coed as bettus uh co-ed, Mrs catfood is from west Wales and pronounces coed as coyd, so I`d say both ways are correct.

oooh [url= http://www.cs.cf.ac.uk/fun/welsh/Lesson01.html ]this[/url] is handy, with audio too!

Llangadog, Llanymddyfri Sir Gaerfyrddin.

Or, Llangattock, Llandovery, Carmarthenshire 🙂

I agree crazy-legs - all I'd ask is a bit of open-mindedness and effort. I once spent about 45 minutes on a ferry having someone from Turku in Finland tell me how to pronounce it properly. Because I care - I really do.

Because I care - I really do.

Most English don't care though, and deal with "foreigners" making a mockery of their language day in day out, but dont bother correcting unless they ask them specifically. I've had the same laughing response when my chinese friends asked how to pronounce things, I didnt take it as abusive. Jeeeeze victim mentality..... <runs, grinning>

Catfood, I woldn't mind my saes friends pronouncing it co-ed, it's when they can't even be bothered to think of it not being an english word and presumably decide it's code mis-spelt!

english word and presumably decide it's code mis-spelt!

Probably because when rushed (as english tends to be spoken) it sounds like codeybrennin etc, missing the subtleties.

Coffeeking, english is hardly A language though is it, Welsh is a phonetic language with simple rules on pronunciation (as long as you learn the welsh alphabet), english is a hotch potch of several languages with bizarrely inconsistent rules!

Mothertongue by Bill Bryson is a very informative read for those who want to improve their English pronunciation 😉

it depends whether you want your pronunciation in taff or gog (south or north)..

Problem with welsh names the CH, LL's etc is very difficult to pronounce properly and write phonrtically.

The u at the end of dolgellau is not "you" but more as in the u "dull" but pit a little more emphasis on it.

A as in Ad in advertisment.

Dol as in "Col"

"gell" is easiest as "geth" for you english, but is NOT the correct pronounciation.

And the "au" pronounce as "lau" with e u prononced as above.

Handy language Welsh though as it makes speaking and pronouncing other languages very easy....

So then, how are you supposed to pronounce ... Leominster? (Linster?)

Lemster

The u at the end of dolgellau is not "you" but more as in the u "dull" but pit a little more emphasis on it.

You sure about that? As I understand it, the Welsh letter 'u' is pronounced either as an 'i' sound, as in bit or an 'ee' sound as in teat.

Always pronounced Dolgellau as Doll-gethl-eye or sommat like that.

I had a boss from Leicester once, who was stopped by an Australian tourist one day and asked directions for Looga-buroo. He was after Loughborough apparently. My, how we laughed.

My personal favourites are Cholomondley, Cheshire and Rhosllanerchrugog, Wrecsam.

Regarding Dolgellau. I think "ll" should be pronounced in a similar way to "th" in "thought" but rather than the tongue being placed between the teeth the tip should be placed behind the lower teeth. So it is not the same sound as "th".

The "au" should be as in "eye", Welsh is also a phonetic language so there shouldn't be different pronunciations from different areas in Wales.

Dol-gell-ow. Shouting louder each time the person on the other end of the phone mis-understands you.

The best explanation for LL I found was tongue placed as for an l but don't vocalise it. So it's a kind of aspirate L sound. Seems to work for me, it sounds just like they do it on the telly.

And yes, it's true that Welsh spelling is phonetic. So it's actually very very easy to pronounce anything even if you've never heard it before, provided you make the effort with a couple of letters. Which is ironically the complete opposite of English.

PS I am from Leominster and it is indeed pronounced Lemster. Interestingly tho, old references to the place have it variously as Lymnster or Lempster. So it's actually grown AWAY from how it sounds not towards.

One of the reasons for different pronunciations of Dolgellau is that the spelling of the place was changed for reasons that nobody can agree on;

it is in old records as Dol-Gelli or Dolgelli (different pronunciations again)

So a student of the language might state how the written name should be pronounced might be rather different to what is said by those who live nearby.

Where I live is known as Darenfelen, Daren Felin, Darren-Felin. These all mean quite diffent things, and (by the phonetic model) should be pronounced diffently, but only those living within five miles ever get to say it, so it tends to be consistent.

Another source of variation comes from the "Correct Pronunciation" Movement of the Cardiff intellectuals and adopted religiously by BBC Wales. Compare (Molgrips will know this one) the pronunciation on the telly of "Caerleon" with that of someone who lives there. Just as in England, we all just say thing diffently.

Half the reason placenames across wales were spelled incorrectly in the past is due to English administrators and illiteracy.

I've seen Dollgelley in old Parish Registers and Censi for example.

I've heard Dol-ga-loo from tourists. I've also heard Aber-wrist-watch and Penrhyn-cock amongst others. Its sad how many people think it is funny to be completely ignorant of these things yet would take offence or be the first to correct if the shoe was on the other foot.

Just top put the record straight and get back on topic the answer is:

Dol-gell-eye, but the locals will often just use Dol, Mach or Aber for example. 'Llanfair PG' possibly being the worlds best shortening of a placename 😉 Lazy bastards, us Welsh.

Dol-Ge-ll(try putting tongue to roof of mouth and blow out through side of your mouth through gap between rear teeth)- eye.

You might need something to wipe the screen after???

Dog-loo......

Cos the place is full of sh1te..... 😉

I though "au" was similar to "aye"/"i": Doll-Ge-<gutteral>-L-aye; the <gutteral> is the unfamiliar combination of "L" at the front of the mouth and a "being sick" noise at the back.

Oh and locally (in the backward, sheep-shagging West Country), Bath is pronounced like the sheep noise: Baaa-th; no "r" and the -th- is very soft as in "thither".

While we are on the subject of Dolgellau, could anyone enlighten me on what the BAT is? I've heard some 'interesting' stories... but no-one seems to want to elaborate on what it is?

It's just Dog-el-oo to me
I have no reason to be interested in how the locals pronounce it

If you're from Yorkshire its "Dog allow" 8)

Compare (Molgrips will know this one) the pronunciation on the telly of "Caerleon" with that of someone who lives there

Good point. Quite a few examples of that down here in South Wales. Wales Today makes for interesting listening on that point. Not very interesting mind, and only on that one tiny point.

I have no reason to be interested in how the locals pronounce it

Exactly.

the <gutteral> is the unfamiliar combination of "L" at the front of the mouth and a "being sick" noise at the back.

No, it's not at the back of the throat; it's all at the front. No phlegm is required. Just tongue in the L position and then breathe out. It's easy.