How do you navigate in the hills?

Similar to you, but also for relating the screen to a larger area

Maps are nice when sat at home or in the pub but pretty much obsolete on the hills.

I use a phone or sometimes preplan a route and put it on my watch.

Watch and phone (and maybe a powerbank) is enough redundancy for me to not bother with a paper map anymore.

Fenix 7 and an iPhone 12 mini.

If doing very remote stuff, I'd take something like a eTrex for backup and possibly an inReach mini, too.

Only use maps. I enjoy using them, using the various basic skills

Madame likes the phone but not on hill walks. Great for forest dog walks though

I almost exclusively use maps, I just prefer them.

Had a (failed) Bob Graham attempt last month. My friend had a GPS and it was a lot quicker so made sense for racing, just follow his watch, turn here, then turn here etc etc,  no thinking. Until we decided to bail out and had to work out the best was down to a road, then my map came out and was brilliant for seeing a context of where we were, what options were available to us, in a way that would have been impossible just following his pre-programed arrow.

The GPS was good for it's purpose but I'm still sticking with maps.

Only use maps. I enjoy using them, using the various basic skills

Fair point and I suppose we should all use them solely, from time to time as a refresher.

I don't bother carrying a map, not since I got my Garmin 820 (about 10 years ago) with pre-loaded OS maps.

Recently I also downloaded the OS App for my phone, works great and you can select & download areas for use when there's likely to be no signal.

Worked great at the weekend for a near 200 mile bikepacking route in the Highlands, plus able to see alternatives.

Carry a powerbank too.

Paper maps and compass. With OS Locate app in case I get a bit doubtful in mist.

Can't remember the last time I took a paper map into the hills, and TBH given where I mostly ride, it's not remote enough that I couldn't just work out using Garmin/apps/knowledge where I am and in which direction I'd need to go.

Something I realize with experience is how little I'm actually looking at a map on a typical decent weather day out. A lot of the route info and topography is taken in and roughly memorized.

If the plan for the day changes then I'll get the map out to quickly reevaluate distance and altitude gains.

A real advantage for me is not having to put my specs on when reading my screen. I can quickly check my position and zoom in if necessary, my sight is good enough to do this but not to read my map. I find orienting the map each time then locating my position on it takes a bit of time and i need to find my specs and put them away, cleaning them when they get wet etc.

I use print outs from a hacked Memory Map app, which allows me to print A3 of the area I am in.

I got a Foretrex 601 last year and It's great.

Default is OS map app on my phone. But I still carry a map (even if its just an A4 or A3 laminated printout) in all but the short simple still stuff. I do a lot of gold DofE training and assessing and we still expect kids to be able to use an actual map and compass.

My thoughts:-

Actual maps are way better when you need to redesign the trip in the field. Being able to see beyond what you can see on the screen makes a big difference when looking at options and feasibility.

Where I find maps on phones are a bit rubbish is in very cold or wet weather. Having to take your winter gloves off when the wind chill is minus 30 is properly brutal. Once the phone and your hands are wet and finger prints stop opening the phone (and facial recognition stops working because you look like a yeti). And the screen is not very responsive because everything is wet. You can turn the lock off but then my phone at least has a mardy because all the pay features don't like it and want disabling. And the battery life is much reduced because it's so cold.

You really need to practise- it's so easy to de-skill yourself. I realised I was guilty of stopping a group and asking them to tell me where they were.....and I'd get my phone out and double check! It's actually quite fun to have a day where you put all the tech away and do a bit of micro nav, pacing using your old sliders on your compass string or pebbles in your hand. Fixing a position using bearings etc. The tech is awesome and it's my go to but I know I have the old school skills still if needed. I do wonder if there is a generation who had it from the start of their time in the hills and if the tech failed on them (dropping your phone or it bricking or running out of power is a thing- or just user error where you fail to download the map before setting off and find yourself without signal) might not have what it takes to sort themselves out.

I have always used a map and compass, until about 9 months ago and I started using the OS app on my phone, it took a while and now its just easier.

I always carry a map and compass wherever I go as I have used them a few times on some of the walks when the weather and conditions have been poor.  The map and compass just reassure me.

usually plan a route on os map and download hardcopy, which work without a signal, i hate it when my friends use garmin, as we are forever taking the wrong track

Breadcrumbs are my backup. Maps.Me is what I use on my phone. I can use a map if necessary. If in doubt follow the people in front of you!? Winky eye..

Actual maps are way better when you need to redesign the trip in the field.

I'd disagree with that assessment, my Garmin will make a better fist of rerouting - either by shortest, or by road than I ever could  if it came to it if I'm cold or turned around in an area I don't know. The only advantage maps have is the lack of battery they need to operate, it's a significant advantage in some circumstances, but good planning and back up makes them all but redundant unless in extremis.

A combination of

Garmin 530 with talkytoaster maps

Alpinequest app on phone with pre-loaded maps for wherever I am. OS if possible in the UK, or if not, then Open source cycle/hike map.

If I'm somewhere remote then I'll take a spare power bank for my phone, or if walking then also I'll take the Garmin 530 as a backup device.

For route plotting (either walking .or riding) I prefer to do this on a full PC with dual screens. I generally use a combo of bing maps (has OS mapping) and Strava heat maps.

I never use paper maps

In the actual hills of the lakes and dales it's generally memory and feel with a phone in my pocket. V v rarely a paper map.

In the rural bits, following invisible footpaths round farms, having os maps on a phone is invaluable and so much quicker than a paper map. And if my phone exploded Id just have to talk nicely to farmer Palmer.

I've done multiple decades of the old school stuff. Would feel a bit exposed if map and compass free in any bit of the Highlands.

I’d disagree with that assessment, my Garmin will make a better fist of rerouting – either by shortest, or by road than I ever could  if it came to it if I’m cold or turned around in an area I don’t know. The only advantage maps have is the lack of battery they need to operate, it’s a significant advantage in some circumstances, but good planning and back up makes them all but redundant unless in extremis.

We clearly have way way difference experiences. Firstly, where I am journeying there is no way in hell I'd allow a computer to do the routing.For lots of reasons but primarily I might well not be using a path recognised as such on a map. I'm talking about the sort of scenario where we'd say planned to walk from A to B but something has changed (a weather front came in sooner than forecast or someone in the group was struggling and the pace was slower than planned). You are 20km+ from a road and the planned exit was west. Checking out the map beyond the screen (without having to scroll around) you can work out that if we abandon that, pop up onto the ridge and descent the other side by that gully into a different glen we can have a bit of shelter in that bothy for an hour to warm up and walk out faster to here and blag/hitch a lift to where we need to be. No garmin in the world will make any sort of fist of that. But being able to see 150+ sq km of map all at once allows you to look through the options pretty effectively and use your noggin and experience to sort a new and improved plan out. I know the group, can assess if the gully descent is reasonable and in their capabilities and I can see the weather and predict where shelter could be sort and headwinds tricky. Way beyond any Garmins capability. But me and a big old bit of map have a chance.

being able to see 150+ sq km of map all at once allows you to look through the options pretty effectively

Good point, I do use paper maps for planning new routes even in areas I know well.

It's horses for courses and personal preferences and all that but I am genuinely surprised that paper maps have been described as obsolete and redundant.

Like Convert above, i am involved with DofE over this last year, did my MLTB Summer and Winter years ago, and have taken fresh first aid and DofE assessors courses this year to be able to help out my daughters and other small local rural schools trying to get it off the ground.

I have really enjoyed going back to map work, and have also really enjoyed teaching it, especially getting involved with a school where many of the kids are neuro-diverse and teaching them to think of the map as a book and the route as a story and asking what they can actually see and how it relates to the map, and even going into a bit of history and geography, when we have been walking some ancient routeways, you can really get them engaged, along with a few fun games.

I tend to find two type of map readers, the analytical who think in bearings, steps, pacing and that side of it, and those who are "Landscape" navigators, who can look at a map and see how it relates to the landscape around them, they are the ones who walk with their heads up, the best navigators combine the two.

Maps are also great for the "big picture" especially if you are new to an area or a route, see how everything relates to everything else, why that valley is there, why those slopes are particularly steep, what mans effect has been on landscape with mines etc, detail you won't get from a small screen often

So if i am on my own and just wanting to move quickly then often use GPS, but always with a paper map as back up

Yeah, that's not what I'm doing in the hills. I only ever do my exploring in areas I don't know in the summer, I'm unlikely if not actually never going to be in the scenario you describe, I'm on on my bike, not on foot, and I'd only ever realistically need to get to the nearest village/town/ dropped pin. In the sorts of places I ride, that's probs going to be max. 20 mins away down a county lane. It's not a binary choice though, it's just knowing beforehand what the realistic risk is and planning accordingly, I'd add that if you're reliant on a  phone/device and it runs out of juice and you've no way of recharging it, that's still bad planning, and if you're that disorganised, a paper map probs isn't going to help you that much.

Oddly enough I just had 4 new OS Explorer maps delivered yesterday. We are off to paddle the Spey in a few weeks and while we might not need them I don't ilke to go anywhere like that without a) having a good look at the route and various options along the way, and b) carrying them with me for easy reference.

It's also a very good opportunity to teach my 13 year old how to properly read maps. We will spend each morning looking at our route for the day, marking any potential obstacles, landmarks/waypoints, escape routes, lunch and camping spots. He can then mark them off as we pass them.

I do have the OS maps app on my phone and will take a power bank, but these will be backup only.

I tend to find two type of map readers, the analytical who think in bearings, steps, pacing and that side of it, and those who are “Landscape” navigators, who can look at a map and see how it relates to the landscape around them

That is very interesting, I'd never thought of it like that. Id put myself in the landscape set, I tend to feel my way and refer to the map when things don't feel right.

Id say my main nav aid is my watch- am I taking too long, is there enough daylight left.

but I am genuinely surprised that paper maps have been described as obsolete and redundant.

Why? The vast majority of folks aren't doing the sort of thing that @convert is doing, they're downloading a route to a GPS head and following its turn-by-turn directions, in most cases that's going to be perfectly fine even in areas you don't know that well. Most folks are setting off from a village car park, heading out in a big loop on well trod tracks that can only be described as remote in as much as they're a few miles from the nearest metalled road.

Personally speaking, I've got 4 compasses; one physical, one of my GPS head, one on my phone, one on my watch, I've got access to satellite powered maps (unlikely to loose a signal) on both my watch and GPS head I can download both 1:50 thou and 1:25 thou of the area (even as much as 150Km square) on my phone plus in extremis Google maps. I carry a battery if in the unlikely scenario my phone and or Garmin (8 hours on the 840) and days and days on my watch run out of juice.

For me, and the sorts of riding I do a paper map is redundant. For others; their needs will be different.

In recent years its mostly phone with os maps loaded.

It depends on if I was going into a more remote area though and planning to navigate somewhere with badly defined paths at which point I would be wanting map and compass (although I would need to do a refresher). I find the phone can give a pretty narrow view of things which is fine for my general use case but I think could be problematic in others.

I like to use maps to get the big picture of an area I am visiting but even that I tend to use a computer for now since it is handy jumping between scales.

I carry a paper map and Etrex GPS with breadcrumb track

The map is for "big picture", full route, nearest road for "escape", etc. The GPS is for current location and sticking to the plan

Phone is for phoning so the battery is preserved solely for that

being able to see 150+ sq km of map all at once

Not all of which will be useful to you, unless your current location is central to the printed map. Typically, it'll be in the bottom right corner and then you might be wanting up to four maps 😉 Infinite scrolling on a GPS/Phone then becomes pretty useful.

I rarely take a paper map these days. GPS , watch and phone give me some contingency. FWIW how many paper map users are carrying two copies? I've seen more paper maps lost to high winds than I have phones or GPSs dropped and broken.

Garmin Explore with a TalkyToaster map.

Tend to follow heatmap paths - combination of quad tracks, shooting tracks etc that are on Open Street Map but not  OS maps.

This was Tuesday's ride: (Carleatheran to Touch: https://www.opencyclemap.org/?zoom=14&lat=56.09508&lon=-4.07164&layers=B0000)

It's just a featureless bog on the OS map:

I plan on Walkhighlands app usually - full OS mapping, can be pre-downloaded etc.
I have used OS app before, and usually pre-download a map.
I always have a compass and paper map, even if that is a printed map in a poly pocket as a 'get out of the hill in case' back up. Even last week I used my compass on a summit to confirm which direction our ride off was -

Sorry, can't get quotes to work, but two things from Convert’s posts:

"I do wonder if there is a generation who had it from the start of their time in the hills and if the tech failed on them (dropping your phone or it bricking or running out of power is a thing- or just user error where you fail to download the map before setting off and find yourself without signal) might not have what it takes to sort themselves out."

I think that's probably more of an issue with experiencing being lost/confused and learning to deal with it regardless of the nav method. I did loads of walking as a kid 30+ yrs ago, Scouts, D of E, and with my mates, all map and compass. I reckon 50% of the time we had no idea where we were or were in the wrong place, but I guess that experience meant that we didn't get stressed, adjusted our plans, partly as it was a laugh and we were young and a bit stupid. This was Peak district, Lakes and Snowdonia mostly, rather than big remote Scottish areas, where you can pretty much just turn left or right and find a road.

Do agree with this point to an extent though "Firstly, where I am journeying there is no way in hell I’d allow a computer to do the routing."

Had experience of this at Easter – did a walk with the family at Easter in the FoD, they were struggling a bit so we cut it short. Options were to walk along the road (no verge so a bit iffy) or let the app re-route (didn’t bother with a paper map). We followed the re-routed walk down a cheeky DH track and ended up on one of the Red MTB routes briefly before getting on a fire road. I was more stressed doing that than any time I’ve been lost in a white-out on my own running or walking, but that was probably more that I was worried I’d end up as a thread on here moaning about bell end families strolling down MTB routes

I can recommend trying orienteering as a good way of improving navigation skills. There's a wide variety of courses from 60 minute street eg lampposts, post boxes through to mountain multi hour events. They're good for making you really think about where you are on a map and for matching up the various map features and how you travel through them.

Typically, it’ll be in the bottom right corner and then you might be wanting up to four maps 😉

Very true! Sod and his laws are normally at work on OSMaps!

Access to an OS maps account and a colour A3 printer helps a bit here though a laminated A3 page can be a faff. We normally arm our kids on expedition with their route on A4 laminated printouts (normally 2 copies of each day per group) and a waterproof copy of the relevant OS maps per group. We actually use aqua3.com maps a lot. OS maps centred around a grid ref of your choice. OS do the same themselves obviously but aqua3 are  way cheaper. So for areas we use a lot not covered by a single OS maps, a bespoke aqua3 of the area makes good financial sense.

I never had a smartphone until recently so always OS paper map and compass for me.

Now I have one, albeit with a very small screen, I hardly ever get out into the hills any more but I'd probably still use a map with the phone as a backup.

I can recommend trying orienteering as a good way of improving navigation skills. There’s a wide variety of courses from 60 minute street eg lampposts

Echo this. plus look out for fixed courses in parks in your area.

I think that rather than a discussion about the material the 'thing you use to navigate is made from', these sorts of threads are really about: How organised are you? and how well are you at assessing the risk?

For something proper serious I’d have paper backup, usually a custom print from OS maps in a plastic sleeve, but only probably for stuff in Scotland or Mid-Wales. Otherwise offline maps (tested) and a fully charged phone.

iPhone with OS map on it (Outdoor Active app currently). Although I tend to navigate manually rather than follow a route. Certainly never follow an automatically-generated route. IME, modern phones don't "fail" so I am happy to rely on it. Besides, I wouldn't be anywhere remote on my own, and I am happy that the chances of two iPhones "failing" at the same time is essentially zero.

I use my phone with OS map and Garmin 830. If I'm somewhere I don't know that well, will also have a paper map and compass.

I always carry an OS map and Compass, but can't recall the last time it ever got unfolded. Just use OS Maps on my iPhone.

In theory I could navigate properly at some point (Summer and Winter ML), but that was a long time ago (pre hand held GPS).

On a bike, Garmin. On foot, map and compass (with gps backup for when I "can’t get the map to agree" with the ground).

these sorts of threads are really about: How organised are you? and how well are you at assessing the risk?

Good point. I suppose I've got some thresholds that I'd struggle to quantify. I'd only follow a route from a Garmin etc (turn left in 200m or you are off route) on faster moving events. A bike or maybe a run. Never a walk. I'd never follow a route generated by automation, It's always be one I'd plotted myself. My follow a route on a device threshold is probably when it goes from xc blast for an hour or 3 to day trail riding trip with a bike. That's also probably the point when I go from I carry what I can fit in my pockets roadie style to a bag. And in the bag might go the sort of stuff I'd carry for a day in the hills walking - ie I've gone from worst case a long walk home to a bit more self sufficient. It's probably the point at which a bit of first aid comes with me too. There's probably a bit of a black spot in my thinking there as a 3 HR circular ride here could easily find me somewhere no one will go for days and a long way from help.

I currently carry my Spot GPS with me on pretty much every trip. It's expensive and overkill but as I own it I take it. I might well be downgrading to paying monthly and only activating on for big trips. I'm struggling with this decision as I do lots of stuff on my own and it's not just the long super remote stuff where I might need it. Arguably at the middle of those 3hr xc style rides with little kit on me I'm at my most vulnerable.

All the above I agree with - todays technology is wonderful, paper backup and proper compass still a Good Thing the further you are from simple landscape and people.

BUT

The one thing rarely mentioned is the emergency. The hours of cold, wet waiting, making calls or using data / screen on time. Batteries die. Devices drown.

For me there is a strength in having two totally different technologies / resources in my bag and skill set. And if there is one thing I know from all the years in the hills, is that no-one expects the sh*t to go down, and we are often left wanting when the sh*t overwhelms us in an incident...

The one thing rarely mentioned is the emergency.

 I suppose I’ve got some thresholds that I’d struggle to quantify.

I completely agree with that sentiment , I think we probs all have those, and it's knowing that point for you at which it becomes sensible to have redundancy if it all goes to shit. I'm realistic enough to know that could happen anywhere, but its extremely unlikely, given my experience.  I'm happy with automated routes from some places, given that I know how they generate them, but if I do that, I always have an alternate plan if it doesn't work.

@convert I used to carry my Spot for those 3-4 hour XC rides too. The risks are obviously greater in Winter, with darkness, cold, the (im)probability of someone passing by etc. At some point, I just stopped doing so. Maybe I was getting more familiar with my new surrounding, but more often riding with pals, the increasing subscription cost and the increased availability of 4G all played a part too. I guess I've also been doing more running in winter (especially since getting studded shoes) so the amount of time I've felt at risk has significantly decreased. Your post has given me pause for thought though, thinking I might reconsider the value of a subscription of some sort. I might need to dig out a calculator and compare my Spot vs an Inreach.

As regards generated routes, I regard those in the same way as a gpx file I've downloaded or been given. I'd never set out to follow it without analyzing it on a map first. Only that way can I consider possible obstacles, inclines, surface types etc. I'm always a little dismayed when I see folk asking for a gpx file for what appears to me to be a simple route as I think it's further cementing that lack of map reading knowledge and skill.

I had an interesting experience with OS maps on my phone. We were out for a walk in the Lakes, in an area I was very familiar with. The phone app persistantly showed us up to 1Km away from where we were. It put me of using a phone for any sort of critical navigation. Normally I use a mixture of a real map, GPS with OS maps and a Garmin 840 for some gravel rides.

The down side of paper maps are that we have a large collection some of which are quite old. The old map are missing some useful information particularly as new cycling routes. I would probably never just use somebody elses gpx file. I like to plot the routes first and then down load to other devices.

I rarely do any sort of outdoor activity without a paper map and compass.

Paper map if I do not know where I want to go or want to explore an area this is mainly running.

Watch/gps if I am doing a set specific route with a map as back up, this is mainly biking.

I did the dragons back a few years ago and started with using watch/gps but eventually turned to using map/compass as I preferred the longer sight line of what is coming up, the context around where you are and to be more fully immersed in the endeavour as I found just watching a dot move across a line was pretty boring.

My background was doing lots of navigation events so its always just been my preference to fondle maps

I have an personal locator beacon for seakayaking and you are now allowed to use them in the UK on land. When you activate it is sends a signal to a satalite and transmits your location. If I am out in Scotland in remote areas I put this in my pack. I have never had to use it, it's subscription free and you just need to replace the batteries every 7 years?

+ 1 on thinking about managing risk and what if scenarios.
+1 on I can never follow a route without looking 'big picture' as to where it goes. In old navigation this is journey storying, landscape layout, waymarkers and handrailing etc
+1 on I would struggle to express some of of my thresholds. I'm often find myself being the one who carries the bag of a waterproof and emergency gear, even on some less obvious places (took it on Aran Islands last week in Ireland...) yet will daunder up the Ochils in an evening with nowt but the clothes I'm stood in...

The phone app persistantly showed us up to 1Km away from where we were.

How could that happen?

I have worked with GPS for around 30 years and I have never seen that?

I am a bit of a GPS geek and have about 6 different units.

As long as they have a clear view of the sky, they only need 3 satellites to get a 2d fix, 4 for 3d.

Just had a look on my phone and there are 12 US above me now and a total of about 40 with the systems.

@bruce what plb? I looked a while ago and they were all subscription and never quite justify it for the amount of use it would get.

For biking various apps on my phone with map as back up.

For walking map with phone as back up .

Relatively new to canoeing so either no real navigation required òr go with a much more experienced person

I don`t think you can beat the Garmin Edge range when riding new routes or in the hills.

Never once have I felt in the slightest lost whilst in the hills local, or when riding abroad. Im surprised everyone here isnt the same or similar. It seems a million years ago that a person would need to take paper maps etc.

The mobile phone is another good option, but not as robust as a Garmin Edge of course.

@ajf

I use a McMurdo Fast Find.

https://www.marinesuperstore.com/safety-beacons/plb-ais/mcmurdo-fastfind-220-gps-plb

There are other options like the Rescue Me PLB1

https://www.marinesuperstore.com/safety-beacons/plb-ais/ocean-signal-rescueme-plb1-with-gps-plb

You have to register the device with the Coastguard.

@gobuchul

I don't know how it happened but it did we were in woods between Grassmere and Rydal. the phone was showing us near the carpark in Grassmere, as we walked to the caves near Rydal our position didn't change. My Garmin GPS 62 shown us in the correct place.

Phone fault? OS maps bug?

Sounds like a weak signal from the tree cover.

The Garmin probably had a better antenna.

Were you going in and out of the app on the phone? Probably a bit of a "cold start" problem?

Was it an older iPhone? More recent chipsets are much quicker at establishing an initial position.

I have an old Magellan handheld from about 1998 and it takes about 5 minutes to get it's 1st fix from cold.

will daunder up the Ochils in an evening with nowt but the clothes I’m stood in

Thats a whole new thread! I have done the same myself hundreds of times. I hate carrying anything if the truth be told and if I do then I use a waist pack. In my younger days I would have thought nothing of running for a few hours in just fells shoes, shorts and vest. Never done it in areas that I didnt know well and always took the precaution of informing of my route, times etc but I was very fit then. I understand the risks but I do think there is sometimes what I call an "overgotexification" of the hills and this puts lots of people off exploring and building the experience and self reliance that is key to being independent in the outdoors. If you dont have £00's worth of gear then "its not for the likes of you" I used to go camping as a teenager and we simply explored and had fun, probably helped by the fact that most of my mates were distance runners so had a high degree of fitness. I do think a lot of kids feel intimidated by the hills, that was never my perception.

Samsung s10e.

I have had problems with Google maps as well so it might be a phone problem.

I understand the risks but I do think there is sometimes what I call an “overgotexification” of the hills and this puts lots of people off exploring

Yep, recognised myself doing this very thing to a group of teenagers who asked me if I had any spare food/water a few weeks back. I was about to give them some 'advice' about coming out prepared, but then I remembered the first trip I did that got me hooked on MTB, and how I was very nearly heat-stroked, and I just gave them my emergency mars bars, and half my water and pointed them in the right direction for the café that they were looking for.

I'll alway want to see the route on (electronic) map before setting off to follow it. Whether thats a downloaded route, or if its simple I won't have a recorded line, just remember the basic directions. A day out in the lakes or peak on legal ROW at least can probably be summed up in about 20 directions/turns.

For a simple route, I'll have the "map" including basic topography, rivers, wooded/open memorised.

For a longer more complex route, I'll know the basics of it but certainly not enough to do it from memory.

When I look at my phone or other navigation device, its primary purpose for me is to tell me where I am and how far along the route I am. More important when biking as speed varies so much. Therefore the phone with its blue dot is ideal, gives me the info I require in seconds, no taking bearings or timing your pace or anything.

If I know in my head that I need to cross the bridge, climb halfway up the hill, then turn right - I can see I'm on the right track, and I'm 3/4 of the way to the turning.

I always carry a map and compass, even on walks I have done before, but mostly use Memory Map on my phone although I just  every now and again rather than constantly checking. I was given MM 1:25000 for the whole UK as a present and downloaded the whole dataset onto the phone so it doesn’t rely on a mobile signal, just GPS. I like to use maps before a walk as I find it much easier to orient myself and work out a route on paper.

Maps.  The idea of following somebody else's route and losing a whole dimension is not appealing. Usually now I will have a printout to hand with the full sheet as backup.  GPX files are for recording your wanderings not predetermining them.  Orienteering background, so map memory skills are pretty sharp.

“overgotexification”

Garmin and Outdoor Active on my iphone as back-up.

I'm rarely far off the beaten track though.

I always have an idea of what my escape route would be.

Planning on doing some further afield riding next year, not sure what my plan for that will be.

Rainy phone screen on a half-loaded google maps with 8% battery left; that either crashes when I try and zoom in, or the raindrops make my phone accidentally call people from work.

Eventually, watching a downloaded video from a hiking vlogger in roughly the same region from 2021 and desperately seeing if I recognise anything.

And after that, pure guesswork based on vibes and which way the lichen is growing, I think I learned that in a bushcraft class at a music festival once.

Rainy phone screen on a half-loaded google maps with 8% battery left; that either crashes when I try and zoom in

Paper maps are ace but a bit of a faff to open/close/use.

On the bike I tend to use a garmin with a phone with osmaps. If it was a really big day out or I think I'd need to do rerouting I might take a paper map in my bag

On foot I tend to use a paper map in a map case, just because it's nice. But I often have a garmin attached to my bag and running as a back up, with my phone with osmaps just in case

I get far more appreciation of where I am with a paper map, but on the bike I'm generally just cracking on so digital versions are easier and quicker

Scale and size of the hills and what you plan to do adds a heck of a lot of context to this, and how much local knowledge you have - like most people there are plenty of places in the hills where I know the geography well enough that nothing is required.

There are places the only thing I need is a climbing guidebook all the way up to needing a 50,000 map - I love the certainty of electronic devices, especially in big woody hillseides, but sometimes the context from a paper map is invaluable

Map & compass with a foretrex as a check nav. I'd be sad if/when it dies, many memories connected to that little toy.

I mostly just like to keep in touch with an old but fundamental skill. Good to know I could still find my arse in a hill if guccier tech shits the bed.

That and I can't justify the expense of fancier devices for the frequency I need it.

OS maps give me genuine joy to use and I have 70+ Explorer and around half that number of Landrangers. Any planning for UK based holiday I take starts by spreading the map out and looking for likely points of interest (and planning days out) - picnic spots, walks, nature reserves, viewpoints, driving detours, potential beaches. I'd much rather do that than just putting "top 10 things to do in Pembrokeshire" into Google.

Walking I'm exclusively map and compass (with a basic grid reference app as a backup if/when I get lost). Provides so much more context to where you are/where you've been/where you're going.

On a bike it's trickier, the speed you're going at means stopping every few minutes to pull out a map isn't ideal (and I've never worked out a good way of setting up a map in the cockpit or having it otherwise readily accessible). Can you get OS Explorer maps on any GPS devices these days or does it have to be a phone? I've never bothered with a subscription, it never appealed that much, but with the right setup it might be best. Road cycling of course you have plenty of GPS options

How could that happen?

I have worked with GPS for around 30 years and I have never seen that?

I am a bit of a GPS geek and have about 6 different units.

Given they still had selective availability switched on 30 years ago, you would have always seen a consistent error in the location every time you used it up until May 2000.

As for how it could happen, phone got confused and needed a reboot, someone carrying a portable GPS jammer / spoofer, accidental jamming from military exercise.

GPS is very fragile (compared to modern systems which can be jammed, but not spoofed).

For walking map and compass. I enjoy using them and the large area view the give. Having said that in wild conditions I have resorted to OS App though using it continuously with GPS on savages the battery. In country with few landmarks and paths I will often upload a GPX to my bike computer as a backup and it has come in handy. Battery life far superior to an iPhone with GPS on and leaves the phone for more important eventualities.

On the bike - bike computer.

I have resorted to OS App though using it continuously with GPS on savages the battery.

I stick my phone on flight mode and just use the OS App as and when needed and find it pretty light on battery use. I normally drain far more taking dozens of photos.

Iphone with OS App, double map and compass when I'm guiding.  I find the app doesn't help with tricky nav (which way to take a group off a ridge in the clag) so I still use map and compass a surprising amount.

I have had problems with Google maps as well so it might be a phone problem.

Some androids had an issue defaulting to the less accurate location (based of wifi etc).

Cant remember the exact details as several years back  but I had a similar massive inaccuracy on it and after some googling found a setting to switch.