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so I kinda get paid to know about this stuff
So knowledgable, in fact, that your best defence of the technology is to call people 'b!tches'.
Call me old fashioned, but that's not what is known as a very strong argument in the world of science and technology.
This is the best description of cryptocurrency I have seen, "libertarian derp plus technobabble"
https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/1395073512600129536
I could be making stuff up to win an internet argument) but I work in banking technology after a fairly long stint in the energy industry, so I kinda get paid to know about this stuff
Major parents' spare room energy here.
so I kinda get paid to know about this stuff
REALLY?!
I find that very hard to believe…….since your most insightful & intelligent response is to hurl
insults…
That Paul Krugman nailed it. It’s all vapour to me but if you can have a little dabble and perhaps make a bit of beer money, why not?
I’m a lurker, not got a coin base account yet etc., but as mentioned in an earlier post, it seems a really accessible way to get into the stock market.
Like @sirromj I bought a few small bits of crypto hoping to learn more about it with an open mind. So far, all the arguments I've seen have boiled down to 'I had some money and now I have more money so it must be good' and I don't really find that convincing. Also, having some 'skin in the game' didn't really help me learn anything other than seeing some numbers go up and down a bit on my screen. It felt a bit like playing Championship Manager.
So, did anyone actually click on and read the hedera link I provided when challenged to "enlighten"?
No?
Hence the "whiny little b1tches" comment. Over the years I've seen the same arguments rolled out over and over again from people who clearly don't actually want to look for themselves at the potential uses for these technologies. People who've decided that it's a con, or it's worthless and spend their time dismissing it - without actually looking at the work that's being done.
I'll provide that link again. It might go nowhere. It might not. That's why I said "potentially" transformative.
https://hedera.com/users/power-transition
There are literally hundreds of use-cases for the various cryptocurrencies / token ecosystems. That is where there value is - real value.
Even if you don't buy into cash replacement - that's fine. If you don't like the volatility - that's down to the small number of actors significantly involved. Mass adoption brings (has brought) increasing stability. But like I said - that's not what this is all about.
I don't feel the need to "defend" crypto (as someone said). It's your loss if you're missing what's going on, not mine. But I do like to prod people who are unremittingly negative about stuff they've not got the inclination of really looking below the hood of.
Yep, thanks for asking @chevychase I clicked on the link so thanks for 'enlightening' me. Having done that I can't get my head around where the crypto currency and token ecosystems diverge with Hedera. For example, in a microgrid environment the usage will be captured using Hedera Hashgraph but presumably the customer will be billed in local currency?
hedera sounds like a solution looking for a problem .
and heading towards chaos for various reasons.
that’s down to the small number of actors significantly involved
Something we agree on. Some of these actors also being rogue states.
Mass adoption brings (has brought) increasing stability
Not that anyone would notice..
Even if you don’t buy into cash replacement
If it was going to happen it would have happened this year + conditions were ripe.
In terms of it being used for its blockchain properties I.e. unique identifier, it has potential but as a replacement for Fiat currencies? Not happening. Oh & it’s still an ‘asset’ class where it’s predominant use has been for laundering & tax evasion. One thing it isn’t is a Ponzi scheme though. But its too volatile & it lacks transparency for me to consider as anything more than a punt. There are also like it or not - question marks around its ‘green’ credentials, mind PTVolts looks interesting but it’s in its infancy. I will admit Hedera may have potential.
But lay off the insulting language ok. No need for it.
But I do like to prod people who are unremittingly negative about stuff they’ve not got the inclination of really looking below the hood of.
Okay cool. So lets discuss beneath the hood.
How do you equate the proof of stake approach with one of the original ideas about decentralising power?
What value is being added in that case study you are linking to? It looks like they are sitting in the middle judging from their comments about aggregating and viewing data so what exactly is the advantage here above a normal approach?
hedera - I understand the tech is different (tested and perfected by insects) but what makes hedera any better than any other general use blockchain? (Eth/Ada/Atom/Algo/SOL).
I just finished project for a international org that had would been much better suited to something like VeChain. However, no matter what tech you used - the same master data problems would still remain.
hedera sounds like a solution looking for a problem .
and heading towards chaos for various reasons.
Why so @trailrat?
Eftpos (think Visa) in Austrailia have joined the Hedera council along with big hitters such as Google, LG, IBM, Boeing, Deutsche Telekom etc. Eftpos are also looking at linking payments to stablecoins which are backed by fiat currency so avoid the volatility of other digital currencies.
I look forward to using any of this new technology once it has something to offer me by making my life easier. If any of it becomes genuinely useful and idiot proof for the average bozo like me who isn't technologically minded, then great! I currently have no use for a cryptocurrency therefore I don't need to speculate on what might become useful in future. I guess if you have a genuine interest and understanding in the technology and concepts then it might be fun to get behind one of them, but that certainly isn't me. But I do enjoy following the bitcoin story, despite having no financial interest in it.
To Checychase - so Hedera is basically a stable cryptocurrency for energy trading? There are links later to opening it up - doesn't opening it mean it will become unstable, so defeating the original point?
It seems to me that there are separate debates to be had about Bitcoin (and other current cryptocurrencies) and blockchain in general. If actual use-cases can be developed that add real value to society (not just making a lucky few rich through speculation) then I'd be all for it.
The below comment gives the game away really - those of us who didn't get in early are indeed 'missing out' on the opportunity to make money.... and I'll freely admit to wishing I'd taken a punt 10 years ago. But the above point still stands - if a genuine use case was found then we would all benefit, and no-one would be "missing out".
It’s your loss if you’re missing what’s going on, not mine
Also, bitcoin mining using green energy is a red herring. It is using our (currently) finite supplies of green energy to create something which has no actual use (again, apart from making some people wealthy). What's more it displaces other users of energy back to non-green sources.
I think my main problem with beating bitcoin with the energy stick - and I personally don't deny its valid - is the extent to which people overlook similar issues in their own investments.
How many of us through pension funds or index trackers own shares in Chevron/Rio Tinto/British American Tobacco/Exxon Mobil/BAE systems/Sturm Ruger etc?
I don't think that argument is valid with respect to Chevron / Exxon / Rio tinto. At present, like it or not, we still need their products in order to maintain our current standard of living. BAT - I will concede make a product which actually negative in terms of overall value to society. That doesn't make it right to add another pointless 'industry' to the mix though !
https://hedera.com/users/power-transition
/blockquote>I read the link.
It must be great, as there are 45 homes in Corby using it... 45...
How you get from that to $19Bn by 2024 i'll never know.Power Transition provides a peer-to-peer energy marketplace and management platform for consumer and business microgrids.
What does this even mean?
I'm sure some people may produce a small amount of power from their home, via wind/solar but I cant imagine its significant to be worth the hassle trading it, compared to whats produced by the National Operators.
Tell these people they are just trading with tulips
El SalvadorPeople who live in countries with unstable Fiat currencies have always turned to other forms of currency. Either the Dollar, or Mobile Phone credit...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04kxddvEftpos (think Visa) in Austrailia have joined the Hedera council along with big hitters such as Google, LG, IBM, Boeing, Deutsche Telekom etc. Eftpos are also looking at linking payments to stablecoins which are backed by fiat currency so avoid the volatility of other digital currencies.
If its backed by fiat currency, then why do we need to reinvent the wheel when well already have a functioning banking system for digital financial transactions?
If you enjoyed the above podcast heres another about the Greater Fool Theory
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3csz2xh
How many of us through pension funds or index trackers own shares in Chevron/Rio Tinto/British American Tobacco/Exxon Mobil/BAE systems/Sturm Ruger etc?
Many of these companies will continue to be successful and will adapt diversify.
Tobacco companies are moving over the Vaping or Cannabis type products, and while some of those products are regulated here, dont forget that there is a huge market across developing countries.
Similar for petroleum companies who are diversifying into renewables.
I don’t think that argument is valid with respect to Chevron / Exxon / Rio tinto. At present, like it or not, we still need their products in order to maintain our current standard of living
Similar for petroleum companies who are diversifying into renewables.
I think that's a bit glib. There are energy companies that are doing much more than [url= https://ejatlas.org/featured/chevronconflicts ]Chevron[/url] and [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exxon_Valdez_oil_spill#cite_note-AUTOREF8-25 ]Exxon[/url], and mining companies [url= https://www.riotinto.com/en/news/inquiry-into-juukan-gorge ]more sensitive than Rio Tinto[/url] (not hard).
Tobacco companies are moving over the Vaping or Cannabis type products, and while some of those products are regulated here, dont forget that there is a huge market across developing countries.
If you are suggesting that British American Tobacco is a company that is making a positive difference to the world (or even has the potential to be vaguely neutral in its impact), I don't think either of us will succeed in winning the other over.
I get that this thread is about crypto, but sticking ones' head in the sand about the (other?) worst excesses of capitalism while levelling similar criticisms at bitcoin is unhelpful I think.
If its backed by fiat currency, then why do we need to reinvent the wheel when well already have a functioning banking system for digital financial transactions?
That's what I took from the link supplied and hence my solution looking for a problem comment.
trail_rat
Free Member
If its backed by fiat currency, then why do we need to reinvent the wheel when well already have a functioning banking system for digital financial transactions?That’s what I took from the link supplied and hence my solution looking for a problem comment.
From what I've discovered so far it seems to be a solution to micropayments where e.g. paying an artist directly to listen to a single track or buying an extra life in an online game. The current banking system would make the cost of a micropayment prohibitive so the receiver would end up owing the banking system money for a transaction of pennies.
People who live in countries with unstable Fiat currencies have always turned to other forms of currency. Either the Dollar, or Mobile Phone credit…
Yes - and of course the dollar can be inflated away and mobile phone credits can be taken away. Also hard to store wealth in USD if you don't have a bank account in El Salvador. Banking the unbanked. Lighting network makes cross boarder micro payments possible on bitcoin. A parent working in the US can send their kids $2 back in ES.
We may not need BTC to buy out essential £5 post lock down pints - but it is life changing for others.
Want a real copper bottomed use case for cryptocurrency???
Cumrockets - directly tip your favorite artist for their fine work. Nuff said.
The current banking system would make the cost of a micropayment prohibitive so the receiver would end up owing the banking system money for a transaction of pennies.
Have you seen transactions costs for some of the cryptocurrencies? You are still going to need to cash it in and out of real money at some stage so how will that work.
No one has yet figured out how to make micropayments work properly but I am not sure how this would address the problem any better than anything else.
One issue with all the companies pushing various crypto schemes is they still seem to want to sit in the middle which undermines one of the key arguments for it.
Lighting network makes cross boarder micro payments possible on bitcoin. A parent working in the US can send their kids $2 back in ES.
Not much use for that yet though, is it? By the time their kids receive the BTC (and change it into something they can spend at present) it might be worth $4, or $1 ??
No one has yet figured out how to make micropayments work properly but I am not sure how this would address the problem any better than anything else.
This is what the poc eftpos ran in Australia was trying to establish using a combination of hedera and Aus$ stablecoin. link
Even that press release screams getting in here early as the consultancies on this to get our claws into the pie and ensure we get our cut.
I just don't see how adding more process to the existing expensive process makes things simpler and cheaper.
Add in the vollitility and you'd be as well having Zimbabwean dollars
Lighting network makes cross boarder micro payments possible on bitcoin. A parent working in the US can send their kids $2 back in ES.
But the whole point of a centrally controlled fiat currency, is that we can all wake up in the morning/next week/next month and the £/$/€/Yen will worth a similar amount to what it is today.
My $2 will still be worth a loaf of bread
In your example:
Yesterday I send by son $2 in Bitcoin so he could by some bread
Yesterday 1 Bitcoin was worth $40,623, so I sent him 0.0000492 Bitcoin
My son has been busy so has only now gone to the shops with his 0.0000492 Bitcoin
At this moment 1 Bitcoin is worth $37,938
That is now worth $1.87
The shopkeeper wants $2 for his bread
My son doesnt have enough money, and so goes hungry
I might as well have sent him 50,000 Vietnamese Dong
Not much use for that yet though, is it? By the time their kids receive the BTC (and change it into something they can spend at present) it might be worth $4, or $1 ??
If the shop keeper is asking for 1000 sats for a loaf and you pay them 1000 sats then its all good.
If the local currency is all rubbish then people are opting out on both sides. Its the same as if they were using the USD. If the USD drops a few % overnight against the Dong, the loaf doesn't get repriced. It was 1USD yesterday - its 1USD today.
I don't convert my daily wages back to gold or the USD every day and ask my employer to match it.
I just don’t see how adding more process to the existing expensive process makes things simpler and cheaper.
Add in the vollitility and you’d be as well having Zimbabwean dollars
Keep up at the back @trail_rat, my post and the link clearly state the currency is StableCoin linked to Australian Dollar so hardly in Zimbabwean dollar territory.
If a commercial organisation like eftpos want to bring a new financial product to the marketplace it will have to be financially viable for all parties and it will sink or swim on that premise.
That's great but only works if everyone in the chain converts to SAT otherwise there will always be a loser in the chain - and it won't be the bank
Shinton. It's an extreme example but if that's the only bit of my arguement you want to call me out on then my point is made.
Its the same as if they were using the USD. If the USD drops a few % overnight against the Dong, the loaf doesn’t get repriced. It was 1USD yesterday – its 1USD today.
Yep, and you said it right there.... you can generally expect swings of only a few% with USD and other stable currencies. When/if BTC gets to have a relatively stable value it could be used for the case you describe..... but then many folk who current hold it will lose interest!
Hmm. I better tell all those El Salvadorans to stop using it and go back to the USD, 1 day remittance times and 12% western union fees.
Fact is - according to that artical they are using it - and its working for them. Those who were using pre 2021 and have managed to save a few sats have 3x their savings. Compared to using and saving in the USD - that's pretty good.
If I was selling bread for sats right now, I'd be accepting and saving as much of it I can knowing it's almost 50% off its ATH.
But the whole point of a centrally controlled fiat currency, is that we can all wake up in the morning/next week/next month and the £/$/€/Yen will worth a similar amount to what it is today.
Is it? It's worth noting that the contemporary idea of centrally controlled fiat currency is relatively new, and to some degree has been blamed for pretty much every recession since its inception, because it's arguably an exercise of kicking the can down the road, passing off any debt to the future.
Cryptocurrency will stabalise if it reaches mass adoption. And there are some obvious and concerning risks that come with that, but it can be argued that it will lead us down a more natural path of economic evolution.
Is it?
Yes it is.
If I give you a £10 note, you know you can go to the pub and buy 2 pints and some crisps.
If next month I give you another £10 you’ll be able to buy the same.
The whole point of a currency is that we all know what a £ is worth, and so it’s easy to exchange goods from one form to another.
If I wake up in the morning not knowing what by £10 note will worth, then any currency becomes worthless, and that is where cryptocurrency is currently, with all of the volatility.
Bitcoin as fallen by 6.85% in the past 24 hours, so now I’ll have to forgo those crisps…
I suspect this thread on wwq.singletrackworld.co.ng would be very different.
I’d take anything written on that site with a handful of salt…
It’s not particularly unbiased is it?
Worth looking at the ticker at the top.
All of the most popular cryptocurrencies are down 10-20% today.
Well I'm out; turns out it wasn't money I was prepared to lose when it came to it! (£500, spread amongst about 10 different coins, and a normal earning person for context). I was a believer in holding, but my waters are telling me to get out now before I start losing money - really feel for the poor sods that have.
It's really tanking now! I'm actually still slightly in profit. Not going to sell, will hold for the long term...... It might pick up again 😳
The whole idea of Cryptocurrency just isn't going to collapse based on one bad week.
Everyone is panicking and prices are reflecting that. It'll be back up but may take months.
The whole idea of Cryptocurrency just isn’t going to collapse based on one bad week.
Everyone is panicking and prices are reflecting that. It’ll be back up but may take months.
Don't disagree (actually, I don't pretend to understand any of it) but as a basic principle people panicking in either direction drives the price of something up or down! 🙂
The whole idea of Cryptocurrency just isn’t going to collapse based on one bad week.
True, but then buying currencies isn't that. Buying bitcoins/ethereium/dodgecoin isn't an investment in some future technology, it's probably going to be like buying betamax but already knowing one day netflix will win.
Except in this case betamax is a bad idea only actually seem to appeal as a product to drug dealers and ransomware hackers.
Netflix has a problem. It's streams from centralised servers. When demand is high it can't keep up. It could deploy more capital to inc capacity - but the capital would not produce return when demand is low.
So everynow and again we have a little wait. Ok when watching box set. Very much not ok when streaming live sports or porn.
What if Netflix was decentralised like bit torrent? It would stream the video to get it out there. By the time these 010101s gets to me it's not directly from Netflix servers but from my neighbors feed - whom is from down the roads feed etc. So the more people watching, the more places I can get my 01001s from - the more resistant the video stream??? The more people watching the better it is?? Complete opposite of the current model!
What if no-one on the network has the 3seconds I need? Well Netflix will stream that out to me directly thank you.
Word on the street is Netflix and Sky Sports are looking at using a crypto currency blockchain (which you can gamble some money on) to do exactly this. Well that's what my son tells me from tiktok.
Apparently my original post hit a nerve with some one.
So I would like to rephrase it as a plannet "when a mummy and daddy love each other very much they like to practice wrestling moves on each other"-ly bad idea.
Word on the street is Netflix and Sky Sports are looking at using a crypto currency blockchain (which you can gamble some money on) to do exactly this. Well that’s what my son tells me from tiktok.
Except that's not what gambling on bitcoin is. If netflix finds a use for the tech in some other way that gamble on bitcoin wont pay off. You're not going to get a dividend because someone at netflix bought a textbook on how to code blockchains.
In the meantime ..... more greenhouse gas emissions than a middling country and actually real industries cant get parts because all the silicon factories can't make enough gpu's and asic's. For what?
so I kinda get paid to know about this stuff
you come across terribly, I can only read your posts in a Swiss Tony voice
...can someone pop the plug back in the Cryto currency bath! Ta! 🤪 🛀
Apparently Trump has declared bitcoin a scam and that's lead to a collapse. Surely Trump's words should do the opposite nowadays!!
He must be driving the price down before he buys a load then!
Netflix has a problem. It’s streams from centralised servers. When demand is high it can’t keep up. It could deploy more capital to inc capacity – but the capital would not produce return when demand is low.
They use Amazon AWS to serve the video as its probably the biggest CDN out there. AWS will spin up servers / BW as required and charge Netflix accordingly based on the SLA etc.
It wouldn't make sense to build a CDN network of your own as these things benefit from economy of scale, makes more sense to just use one of the biggest in existence.
Apparently Trump has declared bitcoin a scam and that’s lead to a collapse. Surely Trump’s words should do the opposite nowadays!!
Well China is banning all social media posts about Crypto..
Rumoured they'll really outlaw all transactions.
Plus people are slowly realising that BC isn't 'outside' the law and the law can crack accounts and confiscate funds etc:
Well China is banning all social media posts about Crypto..
Rumoured they’ll really outlaw all transactions.
This is definitely for the best. And in other great news, the Chinese can now have more than one child without fear of forced sterilization. (They wait till after the second?)
So El Salvador have now made Bitcoin legal tender - along side the USD. (If you want to buy a Tesla there the dealer must accept Bitcoin). Obviously the full infrastructure is not there yet but the intent is.
More importantly - what will this do for the political and economic stability of Latin America as other countries are watching hard? I'm (uneducated) guessing the US will have less influence/control?
I’m (uneducated) guessing the US will have less influence/control?
Given that most just over half of El Salvadors debt is in USD I would think the adoption of Bitcoin will make absolutely zero difference!
More importantly – what will this do for the political and economic stability of Latin America as other countries are watching hard?
Adopting a wildly unstable non currency as a currency. Hmm, do I think that will make things better or worse? Let me think real hard about that one....
(If you want to buy a Tesla there the dealer must accept Bitcoin)
Given that 30% of the population live in poverty, I can't see this being much of an issue...
You do know that El Salvador is a tiny, poor, heavily indebted third world country? It's a sign of despration that they think jumping on the BC bandwagon will somehow improve things for their country.
Adopting a wildly unstable non currency as a currency. Hmm, do I think that will make things better or worse?
yes it is wildly unstable - but for whatever reason - BTC is working well enough for them in the field that they have decided to make it official.
(If you want to buy a Tesla there the dealer must accept Bitcoin)
Given that 30% of the population live in poverty, I can’t see this being much of an issue…
Of course it also applies Ford's, GM's, phones, kettles and everything else sold there where the parent company is US owned. In a way it forces these international companies to interact with BTC. I recall that M&S used to take the euro at the till.
yes it is wildly unstable – but for whatever reason – BTC is working well enough for them in the field that they have decided to make it official.
They don't currently use it for anything that I'm aware of.
Of course it also applies Ford’s, GM’s, phones, kettles and everything else sold there where the parent company is US owned. In a way it forces these international companies to interact with BTC. I recall that M&S used to take the euro at the till.
Well local retailers might have to, but I suspect 99.9% won't as its mainly a cash in hand economy. It's a very poor country..
You really are clutching at straws if you think this makes any difference.
Back in the real world....
Global regulators are calling for cryptocurrencies to carry the toughest bank capital rules of any asset, arguing that requirements for holding bitcoin and similar tokens should be far higher than those for conventional stocks and bonds.
Banks with exposure to volatile cryptocurrencies should face stricter capital requirements to reflect the higher risks, said the Basel Committee on Banking Supervision, the world’s most powerful banking standards-setter.
Its intervention came in a report released on Thursday as policymakers around the world step up plans to regulate the fast-emerging market.
The Basel committee acknowledged that while banks’ exposure to the nascent crypto industry was limited, “the growth of crypto assets and related services has the potential to raise financial stability concerns and increase risks faced by banks”.
Among the risks it cited included market and credit risk, fraud, hacking, money laundering and terrorist financing risk.
https://www.ft.com/content/3fe7be31-179a-47dd-9a61-8f4ea42b9c62
Is BTC wildly unstable?
It fluctuates wildly compared to USD.
Is this because we use USD as the base?
If we, or El Salvador or whoever's, used BTC as the base it would look as though USD was fluctuating wildly, it's risen loads against BTC in the last month or so after plummeting for the previous six
.
I'm not saying it's a good idea, just pointing out that it depends what you use as your reference point.
I’m not saying it’s a good idea, just pointing out that it depends what you use as your reference point.
You normally use whatever currency most of your debt / trade is in as that is what keeps your economy going on a daily basis. Pre-covid ES owed something like 70% of GDP in US/Euro denominated debt, so even a very small fluctation in price of those currencies or respective interest rates will have a big effect on their economy, whereas BC could collapse to zero and no one in ES would even notice.
NB People used to think the sun orbited around the earth.
For what it's worth I don't think the FBI have said the got the logkey for that account via the backdoor they pulled in one of the middle men and he
A. gave it up
B. Wrote it down to keep it safe and was nicked with it in his jeans Pocket.
C.went via a US owned server to get IP addresses then nicked said middle man.
El Salvador folk have been using crypto of some form for a long time 3ish years, making it legal was just a rubber stamp the people have been given the rough end of the stick for years corruption everywhere so crypto becomes another assest to be exploited.
Crypto is no better or worse for crime than cash it's just easy to hide large amounts on a flash drive.(and no laundry bill from the swiss)
Criminals will be criminals and take whatever is valuable at the time.
I do think paper cash is dead or on life support at least everything is just a number after that,and that's a huge problem that may impact very poor people in well off countrys who don't have access to banking/internet, NI numbers ect because they are dirt poor or non citizens.
And as for China come back to me when they stop running concentration camps*(sorry re education) and using north Korea to conduct state wide digital terrorism.
Sorry not a huge fan of China's government after reading some of the diplomatic wires countrys sent home after Tiananmen square.
Buts that's a different thread.
Crypto is no better or worse for crime than cash it’s just easy to hide large amounts on a flash drive.(and no laundry bill from the swiss)
Crypto is great for crime! As you say, easy to launder, easy to send across borders, easy to get millions of dollars of ransom payments without having to collect it from someone under a bridge or even visit their country, easy to buy drugs and child porn online, easy to set up scams, ponzi schemes and all manner of other schemes to separate people from their cash.
There are a lot of pro's and cons to crypto, but you can't say it's not absolutely superb for crime.
You really are clutching at straws if you think this makes any difference.
Back in the real world….
NB People used to think the sun orbited around the earth.
Very WOW much scary language!
BC could collapse to zero
You keep saying BTC could collapse to zero.. Yet... it hasn't.... Yet.... 😀
Very WOW much scary language!
It wasn't meant to be scary, I'm merely pointing out that an impoverished 3rd world country adopting BC is probably not a significant tipping point....
Global regulators requiring banks dealing in Crypto to hold much bigger reserves is probably more significant.....
Crypto is great for crime! As you say, easy to launder, easy to send across borders, easy to get millions of dollars of ransom payments without having to collect it from someone under a bridge or even visit their country, easy to buy drugs and child porn online, easy to set up scams, ponzi schemes and all manner of other schemes to separate people from their cash.
There are a lot of pro’s and cons to crypto, but you can’t say it’s not absolutely superb for crime.
What makes bitcoin good money full stop is also what makes it good money for crime. What makes it bad money - i.e. its completely traceable on the block chain is also why the latest gang got caught. How they actually recovered the coins however was probably more due to a iron wrench than a cracking an algorithm. There is no defense from that.
Given the reputation for corruption, is it not likely that the rulers of el Salvador have bought a load of bitcoin and are hoping this announcement will inflate their investments? (So they can cash out and buy stuff in usd)
Crypto is great for crime!
Crypto (or at least non-privacy coins but even then...) is terrible for crime.
Once the authorities tie you to your crypto wallet they can see exactly what you have been doing with your money.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/why-criminals-cant-hide-behind-bitcoin
Sure, if you and absolutely everyone you interact with is very very careful and makes no mistakes then it's great. I have yet to meet anyone who never makes a mistake.
On a related note, this is an interesting twitter feed to get a feel for how Cyrpto is moving: https://twitter.com/whale_alert?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
It's particularly interesting now that we seem to be in an accumulation phase for institutions.
Given the reputation for corruption, is it not likely that the rulers of el Salvador have bought a load of bitcoin and are hoping this announcement will inflate their investments? (So they can cash out and buy stuff in usd)
Possibly.
Another possibility is that it just makes sense for them, as a country, to accumulate as much Bitcoin as possible.
If the value of Bitcoin continues to go up and US inflation continues then their debt will evaporate.
What could possibly go wrong?
What could possibly go wrong?
I take it you're long on fiat currencies.
What could possibly go wrong?
Crypto (or at least non-privacy coins but even then…) is terrible for crime.
And yet apparently a quarter of Bitcoin users and 46% of transactions are used for illegal purposes, making crime it's second most common use after speculation. Makes you think...
Possibly.
Another possibility is that it just makes sense for them, as a country, to accumulate as much Bitcoin as possible.
If the value of Bitcoin continues to go up and US inflation continues then their debt will evaporate.
OK, so pre Covid their foreign denominated debt was 70% of GDP. How are they going to pay for enough BC to hedge against 70% of GDP?
It's bad enough having debt in a stable foreign currency, a few % rise in interest rates on the USD or Euro will seriously hurt them. But, having debt in the roller coaster ride of BC would be completely insane.
I take it you’re long on fiat currencies.
Given thats what keeps the world's economies going, yep, I'm long on them along with several other billion people.
I wouldn't describe myself as long on fiat, because I'm not a currency trader. But living in the UK I find GBP works for all my currency needs.
If you are not being blackmailed or if you are not buying drugs, then why would you buy cryptocurrency?
And yet apparently a quarter of Bitcoin users and 46% of transactions are used for illegal purposes, making crime it’s second most common use after speculation. Makes you think…
I don't have access to that paper. What's the gist?
OK, so pre Covid their foreign denominated debt was 70% of GDP. How are they going to pay for enough BC to hedge against 70% of GDP?
It’s bad enough having debt in a stable foreign currency, a few % rise in interest rates on the USD or Euro will seriously hurt them. But, having debt in the roller coaster ride of BC would be completely insane.
No one who has bought Bitcoin and kept it for four years has lost money. Ever.
It could, of course, go to zero. So far it has followed a fairly predictable cycle tied to the halving (roughly every four years). The time from bottom to peak of each cycle has increased each time and the ROI has reduced each cycle.
The recent collapse was expected given that we have been well ahead of the previous cycle for over a year. I suspect the reason for that is because this is the cycle where institutions begin adopting crypto which is adding another element into the mix.
It's only a roller coaster if it eventually goes back to where it started.
Given thats what keeps the world’s economies going, yep, I’m long on them along with several other billion people.
I know you're long. In fact, I'd go so far as to say you're a zealot. Most of the rest of us on this thread are realists and are interested in hedging our bets. You are a true believer.
I wouldn’t describe myself as long on fiat, because I’m not a currency trader. But living in the UK I find GBP works for all my currency needs.
And hopefully things will continue as they are. I hope you don't mind if some of us aren't comfortable betting our entire financial futures on that.
If you are not being blackmailed or if you are not buying drugs, then why would you buy cryptocurrency?
Like all good meme's, 'Haha, money printer go brrrrrrr' is based on an element of truth.
And yet apparently a quarter of Bitcoin users and 46% of transactions are used for illegal purposes, making crime it’s second most common use after speculation. Makes you think…
Probably true - at this stage. I guess that the majority of the 46% is drug related. How much of that is for individual use? What was the % of £20 notes that had traces of coke? What's the 2nd most used function for Tesco Club cards? And if are talking about buying mushrooms and pot with Bitcoin, then yes its a illegal transaction in UK but the same transaction is not illegal in many US states.
Illegal is defined by government - depends on what - depends on where.
If I was concerned about the collapse of traditional currencies and existing global financial systems, I wouldn't bet on a cryptocurrency to save me from the absolute chaos that would ensue.