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There's a big difference between falling for a scam and making a gamble which doesn't pay off though
I guess the blanket approach will save the banks money, so they don't end up paying out to customers for failing to detect fraudulent activity.
A few years back I had stocks in a FTSE100 company. Management happy paid themselves out and the stock went to zero.
It was held in a ISA so no capital loss to claim.
You make your choices - you take the risk.
^Carillion by any chance? Got caught out there as well. Yep, accounting scandals are alive and well in the mainstream financial system too.
Forget Crypto... checkout Phunware Inc (PHUN in the States)
Up 1200% on the day !!
Yeah Enron, Worldcom, etc., there is always risk.
Crypto is just a pure speculative vehicle, however, IMHO, there is no underlying value to fall back upon. It will end up at zero.
Any helium miners out there? Seams brilliant but I've probably missed the boat on this one.
Well i've just put some money in Cardano. Anyone care to blow on my dice???
Any helium miners out there? Seams brilliant but I’ve probably missed the boat on this one.
Yep I've got a bit of a fleet on the go, always on the lookout for hosts. 🙂
Boing, boing, boing - anyone else enjoying the crypto markets bouncing up and down these last few weeks! 🙂
It's certainly up & down at the moment, with the emphasis on down! Hey ho.
I'm not too bothered as planning on hanging on for a while. I'd prefer it to go up, up & up but....
A bloke I work with recently admitted that he invested some money from his sideline online business into crypto & is now a millionaire (in crypto at least). He's working on an exit strategy from work. The git. 🙂
A friend of mine gave up work 2/3 years ago, took out a LOT of interest free credit card cash transfers, sunk it into Crypto, crystallised some gains into "fiat shares" and is now a millionaire on paper and retired. Huge risk, but has paid off for him and many others.
Any tips on where to start with Crypto - understand it's likely to all be lost?
Any tips on where to start with Crypto – understand it’s likely to all be lost?
Easiest way is on one of the big Exchanges and with the big coins (basically BitCoin and Ethereum) but whilst you'll have a wilder time than with say FTSE1000 shares you'd have to risk investing a lot to make any serious money
The other option is to try and get in on new coins early and hope they moon - trouble with that is a lot are scams and generally won't be available on the reputable exchanges early enough.
Personally I have some BitCoin & Ethereum and also some more niche coins (but after they were available on major exchanges so not really early enough but it's a bit of a wilder ride than BTC/ETH - although it's all been downhill so far :p)
To start with just keep your coins on the exchange and if you start investing lots (and don't want to be dependant on the exchange in case it goes tits-up) look to have your own wallet
StuF
Any tips on where to start with Crypto – understand it’s likely to all be lost?
Spend a bit of time getting your head around it.
Only invest what you are prepared to lose.
Realise that people who end up investing £1000 & becoming millionaires are the exception rather than the rule.
Stick to the more well established coins with higher market caps that are less likely to just disappear overnight, such as that squidgame scam coin recently.
Sign up to an exchange (I use Kraken) - there's plenty of videos that talk you through the set-up process, how to transfer funds, buy & sell and the best way to buy (with the lowest fees).
I was really anxious about it & procrastinated for a good couple of years before finally sorting my shit out.
Had I got on with it & invested even a small amount when I originally started thinking about it, I probably would be about £100k or more up. As it is, I'm not. But hey ho. That's life and my fault for not getting on with it.
I'm not day trading - just buying a small amount monthly and keeping hold of it for a while. If it makes some money, all well & good. If it doesn't, I'll be a bit annoyed but I'm not risking anything I can't afford to lose & FOR ME the potential reward outweighs the risk.
I’m not day trading – just buying a small amount monthly and keeping hold of it for a while. If it makes some money, all well & good. If it doesn’t, I’ll be a bit annoyed but I’m not risking anything I can’t afford to lose & FOR ME the potential reward outweighs the risk.
^^Same for me. Just beer money every month into a few coins. Could make me rich in 5yrs, or I could lose the lot! 🙂
I use the Kraken App.
I got into this a couple of months ago. Just before the market decided to tank ha ha.Hoping it will recover soon.
Another recent trader here and echo @stumpy01 above.
I'm using etoro at the moment to get an understanding of what I'm doing, may change to kraken at some point.
Main reason I'm using etoro is I've got a few non crypto trades on the same platform as well.
Having a mix of the big two (ETH and BTC) plus some altcoins just to see what happens, after dithering and talking about it for ages I decided to put my money where my mouth was!
I've decided on a limit I'm happy to "lose" and won't add any more just yet, having just bought in the dip. Be prepared to hold on for a while, I'm looking at this as an alternative to premium bonds. More risk but better returns.
Another Helium miner here, pretty new to it but it's quite interesting.
@nickc i thought after all these months, even you would have seen what the space is capable of, but no......still spouting the same old rhetoric!! Meanwhile, many people have made PLENTY of cash (Fiat and Crypto) out of it! 😀
Did nickc write the article?
No one is denying that money can be made, that's not in dispute.
I read the article earlier and thought of this thread!
Everyone is an expert in a bull market 😀
Ponzi schemes are to bitcoin as foreigners are to brexit. Or something.
No one is denying that money can be made, that’s not in dispute.
Literally; I'm making some newly minted riocoins as we speak.
There's a good point from that article that hadn't really occurred to me. I'd roughly estimated that the value in cryptocurrencies was the amount put in by the punters minus the amount skimmed off by exchanges, fraudsters and other middle men, but of course as he says you should subtract from that the cost of all the electricity paid for by miners, so the actual amount left that can be extracted by the lucky few gamblers from the gullible serious and far sighted investors who can see the striking potential of this amazing technology is actually quite small.
that the value in cryptocurrencies was the amount put in by the punters minus the amount skimmed off by exchanges, fraudsters and other middle men
I don't think you can state value like that. The cost is maybe the electricity and middlemen etc, but the value could be higher or lower that that. The computations done have no intrinsic value of their own, unlike, say, gold or oil which have a speculative value but also a base, usable value to many people
Rio
There’s a good point from that article that hadn’t really occurred to me. I’d roughly estimated that the value in cryptocurrencies was the amount put in by the punters minus the amount skimmed off by exchanges, fraudsters and other middle men, but of course as he says you should subtract from that the cost of all the electricity paid for by miners, so the actual amount left that can be extracted by the lucky few gamblers from the gullible serious and far sighted investors who can see the striking potential of this amazing technology is actually quite small.
Does the same thing happen with gold, diamonds etc? Is the cost of finding, extracting, processing, storing, marketing, selling the precious material taken off it's value?
I quote I heard.
Don't be so arrogant as to presume your opinion is correct.
Crypto is the future - or not.
Claiming that bitcoin has an inherent value because 'work was done' to produce it sounds like a variant of the labour theory of value. Ergo it's wrong.
Tarrantino releasing Pulp Fiction related NFTs on the Secret Network after Mirramax sued him for copyright infringement over NFTs in November. Only the owner of a Secret Network NFT can view them. So Miramax will have to buy them to discover if they need to sue him or not.
Claiming that bitcoin has an inherent value because ‘work was done’ to produce it sounds like a variant of the labour theory of value. Ergo it’s wrong.
This statement demonstrates both a misunderstanding of “the Labour theory of value” and a lack of knowledge of how crypto works.
That work is done doesn’t give value it demonstrates security, which gives value to the currency associated with the token.
Noticed I could buy Bitcoin and Ethereum last week via the paypal, picked up a small amount and am down 1/4 a week later...
Noticed I could buy Bitcoin and Ethereum last week via the paypal, picked up a small amount and am down 1/4 a week later…
Well, if this was a stock, you should now be examining the reason for the drop (because no decent investment drops 20%+ for no reason) and deciding if/how it affects your investment thesis. If your thesis still stands you might like to average down, but if you're less risk tolerant then probably not, better to simply hold. If your thesis has been compromised then it's time to cut the loss and move on.
Noticed I could buy Bitcoin and Ethereum last week via the paypal, picked up a small amount and am down 1/4 a week later…
That’s just how it is - treat it as a gamble and a bit of fun - and don’t put your life’s savings in! 😀
That work is done doesn’t give value it demonstrates security, which gives value to the currency associated with the token.
The need to 'mine' (and thus 'do' work) new bitcoins (or any crypto) is an entirely arbitrary mechanic. A new coin could easily start with a fixed supply or expand based on some kind of queue or RNG based system. By your logic, it would have no value.
Security is demonstrated by the blockchain not being compromised. If someone failed an infinite number of times to break the blockchain the coin wouldn't acquire infinite value.
Noticed I could buy Bitcoin and Ethereum last week via the paypal, picked up a small amount and am down 1/4 a week later…
That’s just how it is
You can hold or sell. Or buy the dip.
Who is buying the dip?
And who is getting out while they're ahead before the bubble burst completely?
Who knows what the best thing to do is, it's all very exciting
Or buy the dip
Or try catching a falling knife.
Every time a new block of transactions is added to a crypto currency’s blockchain, the “miners” attempt to solve a complex mathematical function using the new transactions as input data. The first miner to get to the answer is rewarded with some quantity of the crypto currency – this is how new crypto currency comes into the world. In the case of Bitcoin there are probably thousands of mining rigs around the world. The big issue with this scheme is that every time a new block is added to the currency’s blockchain, almost all of the considerable amount of electrical power consumed by miners is entirely wasted, since this is a race in which only one miner can win – all the other miners in the network who fail to find the answer fist just consume electricity to no purpose. I saw an estimate recently that compared the amount of power consumed by Bitcoin miners to be equivalent to a small country (I don’t remember which one).
All of that electricity has to come from somewhere, and almost certainly results in yet more CO2 being pumped into the atmosphere, and mostly for no good purpose. So in environmental terms crypto, and in particular Bitcoin, is a major environmental disaster area. This is something which people maybe ought to take into account before diving in. Personally I won’t go near any crypto currency for exactly this reason, regardless of the financial risks and/or rewards that may or may not be involved.
@AndrewH - I have. I have bought into a spread of 9 tokens. I crystallised 15% of BTC holding in December when we reached a record high.
Yup, interesting times ahead! Try not to check your balance too often though, it'not always pleasant viewing....for now! 😉
i managed about 20secs of that
ARB down at 80p. Worth a dip in.
ARB down at 80p. Worth a dip in.
Why?
Number go up?
Anyone interested in hosting a Helium hotspot for a decent share?
Squeaky-bum time! 😬🤣💰
the-muffin-man
Squeaky-bum time!
Ha ha! Certainly frustrating but given I've only been putting spare cash in, I'm am not too bothered by these fluctuations.
I've currently got money in Bitcoin, Ethereum, Cardano, Ripple, Solana & Chainlink.
If the market stays low or continues to drop I will keep my current holdings (not really looking for short term gains) and put the money I would be investing into more crypto aside to see how things pan out.
If the market stays low or continues to drop I will keep my current holdings (not really looking for short term gains) and put the money I would be investing into more crypto aside to see how things pan out.
Eh. Does not compute... you have crypto, you were planning to invest in more crypto, but just at the point your new investments will buy you shit loads more crypto than your previous investments...
You stop buying crypto. 🤔
i got drunk and bought £850 worth or crypto (etherium).
It's now worth nearly £300 less.
That was fun.. sigh..
DrP
Can anyone explain to me (an idiot) why all the cryptos seem to be tanking? I tried to read a couple of articles but they all used a bunch of finance jargon that I don't have the energy to translate.
Crypto is great if you'd bought for peanuts but at its current price...I don't know, it needs to come lower for me..
Can anyone explain to me (an idiot) why all the cryptos seem to be tanking? I tried to read a couple of articles but they all used a bunch of finance jargon that I don’t have the energy to translate.
A number of reasons. Mostly because countries like China & Russia are moving to ban it & the FCA are moving closer to regulating it IMHO.
Can anyone explain to me (an idiot) why all the cryptos seem to be tanking? I tried to read a couple of articles but they all used a bunch of finance jargon that I don’t have the energy to translate.
I think when Bitcoin and Ethereum move, maybe a couple of other largish ones, the rest go in the same direction.
Unlike shares there's much less in the way of fundamentals to make judgements on, it's much more about market sentiment. But as with shares one big one goes down rapidly and the whole stock market crashes.
Now why Bitcoin and Ethereum and maybe a couple of other largish ones, are dropping so rapidly is another question
market sentiment
In a nutshell.
From what I understand it's not unusual for this time of year. Just like with other industries to experience lulls this time of year too.
The other theory is that crypto is used by some whales as a large depository for a cash-like currency that probably has better returns than USD - a bit like gold.
In a bullish stock market, the price of gold typically goes down. This is sort of happening with most stock markets seemingly going up in spite of everything. BUT there are fears of a crash, and when the stock market requires large injections of cash (to prevent liquidations?), they sell gold (or perhaps now crypto) to raise some capital.
So basically, crypto volatility is either to do with the crypto sentiment, or the stock markets. If it's related to stock market movements, it can be either a bullish or bearish sign depending on what information sources you subscribe to. I.E. Trying to predict these things is a dark art.
The other theory is that crypto is used by some whales as a large depository for a cash-like currency that probably has better returns than USD – a bit like gold.
Indeed. The presence of these whales means that they can very easily affect the price, even more so given the lack of regulation. clarity & presence of more than a few scam artists masquerading as legit trading platforms.
@mrlebowski Isn't the lack of regulation a key element though? If it was regulated then we end up in the same position as normal currency? I might have read your post as pro regulation with absolutely nothing to suggest it was, so sorry if I did this 🙂
I just bought some Litecoin purely because this thread popped up and said the price had dropped. I am so easily led.
Ok, thanks for the input. Can't say I really undersand it yet but I'm going to go with 'some people have decided to do their online gambling* differently because they're worried about some other bits of the economy'.
I was hoping for something easier to put your finger on like 'China has banned logarithms' or 'Jeff Bezos deleted 5% of the blockchain'.
*or as some prefer, 'investing'.
I've stuck some more into BTC, ETH & Tether today.
Chinese new year always seems to bring about a drop albeit not quite like what we've just seen!
Isn’t the lack of regulation a key element though? If it was regulated then we end up in the same position as normal currency? I might have read your post as pro regulation with absolutely nothing to suggest it was, so sorry if I did this
I'm neither for or against TBH. I suppose I might be more for as it would grant investors some protection - as currently there's none. More pointing out a weakness in terms of how 'safe' your investment is.
super bubbles?!?
but i would be nervous investing in crypto or anything currently, might need that money soon. feels like a crash is on its way? though i have no information of knowledge or skill on the subject, so what do i know!
thegeneralist
Eh. Does not compute… you have crypto, you were planning to invest in more crypto, but just at the point your new investments will buy you shit loads more crypto than your previous investments…
You stop buying crypto.
Yeah, I probably didn't explain very well.
I have been basically taking a bit of spare money at the end of the month and almost immediately buying whatever coin I wanted to, based on a bit of research. There were certain coins I was keen to get some money into and because of this, I was perhaps a bit rash.
With the current situation I will keep money aside and move it onto the exchange account so its ready to be used. But, I will probably be a bit more wary about when I actually buy more crypto, rather than just buying when the money becomes available.
Hopefully I will still be buying at these lower prices, just doing it with a bit more thought and care.
I invested around £900 , mostly in Cardano after a friend that makes good money from it convinced me to give it a go .... seems like I bought when it was at its highest and now its worth less than half ! ... I've decided to just leave it where it is for now , as I've already lost over 50% of its value and see what happens ? ..... Just thought it would buy me a nice new shiny bike this year ... guessing not anymore 🙁
a friend that makes good money from it convinced me to give it a go
You can console yourself with the thought that its people like you that have enabled your friend to "make good money from it", assuming they cashed out in time. That's what friends are for.
Anyone using dexs and liquidity pools?
I've been playing with Osmosis over the past month. Fees are tiny and rewards come in daily. Much more interactive than just staking, probably addictive... Counting those pennies!
Cardano's dex, Sundae Swap has only just launched in the past few days, currently suffering a few teething problems, could be worth keeping an eye on.
Anyone using dexs and liquidity pools?
I prefer Paddy Power and Bet365 for my gambling habit
Can anyone explain to me (an idiot) why all the cryptos seem to be tanking? I tried to read a couple of articles but they all used a bunch of finance jargon that I don’t have the energy to translate.
🤦♂️
The crypto space is tanking becuase there are more sellers than buyers.
Why are there more sellers than buyers? Because crypto is a risk asset (a high risk asset) with no fundamental value. Investment appetite is currently largely risk off because of central bank tapering and rising interest rates. Investors are taking profits and looking for value and defensive plays as the economic landscape changes.
BTC's price rise was fueled only by speculators, fools, criminals and reflexivity - aka it was a bubble. The bubble has run out of fuel and so it is popping...
So no one is buying in the current dip?
If you can't explain why a crypto shouldn't be tanking then that's the one you should buy. And if you can't then you're basically gambling
If you xxx coins and noone wants them what are you going to do with them?
So no one is buying in the current dip?
Is like saying "why is no one selling at this peak".
a) you don't absolutely know this is the dip
b) there's no intrinsic value, there isn't some sort of regression to the mean. It's not like "buying the dip" in steel prices when you could invest in a mix of mining, smelting companies, futures, or ETF's knowing that those companies or materials have* some intrinsic value.
*well, you could have been left with oil during 2020 when it went negative, but in general, you'd be safer buying oil futures when it's low because it will eventually go back to the same sort of ~$75/barrel it always does.
It's interesting to watch because as they said up there, it's almost purely sentiment-driven, some influencer posts saying this is the dip, it's going up, people on forums "doing their own research" read that, buy it, influencer cashes out, and you get this:
I invested around £900 , mostly in Cardano after a friend that makes good money from it convinced me to give it a go …. seems like I bought when it was at its highest and now its worth less than half ! … I’ve decided to just leave it where it is for now , as I’ve already lost over 50% of its value and see what happens ? ….. Just thought it would buy me a nice new shiny bike this year … guessing not anymore 🙁
There's no more research to it than guessing at the market sentiment. And that's really a coin toss, with survivor bias ensuring you read more stories of new bikes being bought than the people who only bet what they could afford to lose, and lost.
Oops. Well I bought a load of crypto last night. Put a buy order in ages ago at a silly low price and forgot about it. Well, I thought it was a silly low price but its even lower now!
Some of the NFT stuff appears to have hit peak lunacy, but as has been said, the peak is only visible after the market has crashed.
Thanks for the breakdown nobody asked for.
You forgot to mention ponzi scheme and climate change however.
Still trying to separate crypto from tulip bulbs, though tulips can look pretty when planted.
Thanks for the breakdown nobody asked for.
You forgot to mention ponzi scheme and climate change however.
To be fair he doesn't need to. They are a given
Thanks for the breakdown nobody asked for.
You forgot to mention ponzi scheme and climate change however.
Can't knock a man for savouring this belated victory of common sense after having to put up with the evangelical codswallop spouted by crypto fanatics for the past 14 months.