You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
A relative of mine is in a lot of shit. He is possibly facing a prosecution for assault.
No previous and no knowledge of how these things work. Me neither.
I have advised him to get a "good" solicitor and I have offered to pay.
My only experience of solicitors has been when moving house and their performance has varied, to say the least!
So how do you go about choosing a solicitor for something like this?
Is there a Trip Advisor for lawyers?
Phone around, ask for recommendations for an experienced criminal lawyer. Or hang around with drug dealers and get personal recommendations.
No idea. Hope you got him a soap on a rope for Christmas
A relative of mine is in a lot of shit. He is possibly facing a prosecution for assault.
No previous and no knowledge of how these things work. Me neither.
no previous and if no weapon was involved then it's probably not as bad as you think, ending up as a police caution.
He is possibly facing a prosecution for assault
Assuming he did it, do you need a good, expensive, lawyer to plead guilty?
no previous and if no weapon was involved then it’s probably not as bad as you think, ending up as a police caution.
No previous and no weapon. No serious injuries.
Assuming he did it, do you need a good, expensive, lawyer to plead guilty?
I don't know.
Drink was involved and a back story of a great deal of stress and depression.
The case is with the CPS at the moment, so he doesn't even know if he will be prosecuted.
Other person isn't pressing charges but apparently there is some CCTV.
Just want to make sure sure he gets the best possible support.
Legal Aid?
Ohhh wait... Who scrapped that I wonder??🧐
Oh, wait.. it was this right winger who is an incompetent moron.
I don't pretend to know much about this, but I do know a little bit. A good solicitor might be able to navigate the BS the police will tell you at interview, but the best at this will probably be the free duty solicitors as they do that all day, everyday.
Based on 24 hours in police custody it's the normal 'man in the street' types who get off worse by going into interview thinking the truth will set you free and pouring their guts out to the Copper who tells them they're doing the right thing and how that all sounds so reasonable to them blah blah blah whilst they're busy ticking boxes for the CPS, the career criminals always go 'no comment' and more often than not, walk free.
If it's serious enough to get past magistrates court, you'll need a Barrister and they'll be appointed by the solicitor. My Wife's uncle is a QC, I've seen his house, and his collection of cars, I wouldn't offer to pay that bill if I were you!
If it’s serious enough to get past magistrates court
From what I understand it won't get past magistrates.
it’s the normal ‘man in the street’ types who get off worse by going into interview thinking the truth will set you free
This is what has seemed to have happened. It feels like a Police getting a successful conviction exercise. For what it is, seems a waste of time and money to me.
This is what has seemed to have happened. It feels like a Police getting a successful conviction exercise. For what it is, seems a waste of time and money to me.
Its a crime. Its been solved. It goes on the stats as a solved case. MPs report it as a good thing.
Friends who are in the force say the same thing over and over again. Especially drunks, who used to get a night in the cells to sleep it off. Now they get charged with something, and it's 'solved' and its a good stat and a tick in the box...
The case is with the CPS at the moment, so he doesn’t even know if he will be prosecuted.
And could be 12 months before they get back to him if they ever do at all. When they don't prosecute you just never hear anything!
And could be 12 months before they get back to him if they ever do at all. When they don’t prosecute you just never hear anything!
Seriously? That isn't going to help his mental health at all.
How can somebody who feels he has hit rock bottom, start to get help he needs and rebuild his life, if he has that hanging over him?
What a pile of shit.
This is what has seemed to have happened. It feels like a Police getting a successful conviction exercise. For what it is, seems a waste of time and money to me.
I can imagine, I really enjoy 24 hours in..., but it's been a bit of an eye opener in terms of Police goals and such, I guess like a lot of jobs, you take wins where you can because you need to perform.
It hard for me to say it's wrong as such, OPs relative assaulted someone, they may get a caution, they may get a fine or even a short sentence and it sounds like an isolated incident with mitigating circumstances so they probably won't be treated to harshly. The bit that's annoying is that the people you see with a list of convictions as long as your arm are obviously better at being criminals, they know to say SFA without a brief and even then it's usually a short prepared statement and 'No Comment' for 10 mins.
It's likely worth buying a copy of The Secret Barrister: Stories of the Law and How It's Broken.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Secret-Barrister-Stories-Law-Broken/dp/1509841105
You should both have plenty of time to read that before going to court and it's well worth the money. Unfortunately it won't tell you any magic tricks to make it go away, but it will give you a hell of a lot of information about the process and what to expect and the characters you will be dealing with along the way.
It will frighten you. Or at least if I was accused of a crime, innocent or guilty, it would frighten me.
The NHS gets a lot of press and rightly so, but what the Tories have done to the 'Justice' system is mind blowing.
His first mistake was doing the assault, his second was talking to the police. Not sure if there will be a big difference in outcome now between getting the best solicitor and any old one. They will likely have everything they need now for the case against your relative.
If you are ever arrested/charged. Never say anything to the police except to confirm your identity and then answer no comment to everything else until you have taken legal advice. No matter how deep the trouble you are in may be, or how smart you think you are, always no comment.
the people you see with a list of convictions as long as your arm are obviously better at being criminals
other than the 'not getting caught' bit of being a criminal.
His first mistake was doing the assault, his second was talking to the police. Not sure if there will be a big difference in outcome now between getting the best solicitor and any old one. They will likely have everything they need now for the case against your relative.
If you are ever arrested/charged. Never say anything to the police except to confirm your identity and then answer no comment to everything else until you have taken legal advice. No matter how deep the trouble you are in may be, or how smart you think you are, always no comment.
Well, I'm not getting on the wrong side of Rene! Haha
I agree with Rene. Especially since the effective destruction of fairness that n the criminal justice system and other aspects of our justice system that Apocalypto points out.
OP: you need to look at the Chambers or Legal 500 directories for criminal law firms in your area. Where are you in the country?
It's not true that you'd necessarily need a barrister if it goes beyond the Mags - solicitor-advocates have higher rights. Conversely, you can now instruct barristers directly and they're often cheap, esp for routine matters at lower courts. (All assuming you're in England and Wales).
Numpties saying "if he done it just plead guilty" are exactly why it's useful to have proper legal advice.
I can imagine, I really enjoy 24 hours in…, but it’s been a bit of an eye opener in terms of Police goals and such, I guess like a lot of jobs, you take wins where you can because you need to perform.
Depends which episode you watch, some of it it "24h in police custody" where the case is open and closed in 24h as the title suggests, which means by it's nature the cases have to be easy wins. There's also quite a lot of cases that end up being followed up over months or years.
Also it's TV (I'm involved in making it), sometimes it's random chance what cases happen on a filming day, sometimes editorial decisions get made what to cover. It could probably be made the same way as 24 in A&E (which is filmed in 24h, just the interviews are done afterwards) but you would kill peoples faith in humanity*!
*and cancel your internet service if you have teenagers, I've sat in the gallery (posh word for 'back of a transit van in the car park') through way too many "is this your phone/laptop?" questions!
My wife has been a prosecuting barrister and a defence one.
The advice she gave our kids was, no matter what, "No comment" until you have had independent legal advice. The police are just doing their job, it's a process, but no need to dig a bigger hole.
Phone around, ask for recommendations for an experienced criminal lawyer.
Be cautious who you ask for recommendations from. Regular clients are not necessarily the best judge, and likely have no real idea if another firm would have done a better/worse job.
Assuming he did it, do you need a good, expensive, lawyer to plead guilty?
No you don’t NEED a lawyer at all - but if you are alien to the judicial system it can certainly make you feel a lot more comfortable, avoid mistakes that might make matters worse, and might manage to present the mitigation better than the person themselves. I’m familiar with the process and would still not be rushing to represent myself for anything except the most minor offences.
A solicitor will know if your recollection amounts to the crime charged, or if statutory defences etc might apply. Representing yourself has the potential to plead guilty to crime you actually didn’t commit (in the eyes of the law) or to try and justify something as “self defence” that clearly wasn’t and end up aggravating the magistrates.
A good court solicitor is not necessarily a stupidly expensive one. For this sort of case the solicitor who is in the relevant magistrates court most days would be at least as capable as the self proclaimed expert and as “your” case should take only half an hour (rather than a day of sitting around waiting to be called and travelling) will probably be sensibly priced. If you know which court you could pop in and see which firms do the duty court work. You could even sit in on a few presenting pleas for clients and see who seems most credible.
How can somebody who feels he has hit rock bottom, start to get help he needs and rebuild his life, if he has that hanging over him?
A decent solicitor may actually be able to help there. Not just by knowing who to contact at CPS to get clarity, but also by having a sensible discussion about the issues and alternatives to prosecution. That does need a solicitor who is used to going a wee bit above and beyond (and certainly not having a hostile relationship with the prosecutor). Of course solicitor may advise to wait and see - as CPS aren’t that competent at getting cases to court, with all the necessary evidence it may be the case never gets as far as a trial - especially as their (in)ability to play CCTV evidence from a random source can be the downfall of many a case. That’s just another reason not to represent yourself.
"OP: you need to look at the Chambers or Legal 500 directories for criminal law firms in your area."
Sorry I should have been more clear here. Chambers and Legal 500 aren't just directories, they rank law firms and practitioners according to their specialisations and skills. They're not perfect systems, but they're as close to a Trip Advisor or Yelp for the legal profession as you're going to get.
Hopeforthebest - i’ve Just tested that out with a local search to see if They return the firms I would recommend a friend locally. Whilst some of the firms they list would be on my short list, there are some others who whilst working vaguely in the area and would likely take your money wouldn’t actually be a logical choice (but they might if you need appeal court help etc). Chambers is more comprehensive than the Legal 500 list (here). Perhaps most concerningly the firm I personally would go to if in trouble is not listed at all on either. Neither are a couple of others who I know would be more than capable of the sort of case the OP has. They specialise in exactly the sort of work the OP has - low level, low profile, criminal court work, both legal aid and privately funded work. My experience has always been they were working in the clients best interests. This looks like the sort of place lawyers would go to find a recommendation rather than targeted at those accused of a drunken brawl!
I’d just warn that for a “trivial” case from a “big name” firm you may get the junior with little supervision. I don’t know if you need a marketing department/budget to get listed on there or if they are more likely to list firms that have “processes” for gathering client feedback etc. The sort of client the OP’s ideal firm normally deals with doesn’t provide written feedback!
on the recommendation of the above, I've Kindle'd a copy of
Wow. What a bleak read. Example - we spend more on giving TV licences to pensioners than we do on running the national prosecutor (CPS) - and then wonder why we don't have the capacity to properly try cases (both in terms of failure to prosecute the guilty, but also innocent people being convicted eg: where CPS caseworkers haven't had chance to properly review evidence and properly rule on whether the case should even proceed, followed by an archaic system of JP's who frequently seem to work on a presumption of guilt rather than innocence)
Poly: I don't think the directories are perfect (as I said) but they're the closest to a TripAdvisor the OP is going to get. If OP is starting from zero and doesn't know anyone that's intimately familiar with every criminal law practice in Spodlington, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If you're searching under the generic criminal categories (not white collar crime), you're not going to get a lot of big law firms, especially in the provinces. You don't need a big marketing budget or team to get into them, it's free and you just need to fill in their shitty application forms. Unfortunately this is a market in which the customers are often not the best judge, even if you could find them.
Thanks for all the advice.
So it looks like there is going to be some pot luck.
I'm guessing that if it goes to court the solicitor will tell him to plead guilty anyway. So it's just a matter of presenting himself in the best possible light.
I can’t offer any better advice on how to choose a solicitor but do deal with sort stuff at work. I would strongly suggest that if your relative is in need of help with his mental/emotional state or with reducing his drinking etc, he should use this experience as a wake up call to seek it now if he feels able. This will help him cope whilst the case is hanging over him, giving him something positive to focus on. It will also go down well if he does end up in Court, magistrates always like someone who has taken steps to make positive changes.
Well it's all sorted out now.
The solicitor has been in touch and "no further action will be taken", apparently no charges were ever made and it has not been passed to the CPS.
He phoned the lawyer and apparently the Police told him that on his release. The fact that he was never given a charge sheet should of told him that. As the poor ****er doesn't know what a charge sheet is that didn't really help him. he also told me that the Police said he was "on bail".
So he's in the clear and hopefully this will get him to sort his shit out.
However from what he has said, it sounds like the Police have deliberately mislead him to frighten him a bit. Which worked! But I still think they have acted a bit shitty.
Good news then.
I remember hearing the head of the bar (I think) talking on the radio last year.
He was saying something along the lines of “due to cuts,justice has never been so imbalanced in favour of those with money” .
Very depressing.
OP. Good result.
Lets hope he is 'on the up' and keeps on the 'straight and narrow'.
He was saying something along the lines of “due to cuts,justice has never been so imbalanced in favour of those with money” .
How far back does "never" go? The Middle Ages? Ancient Greece?
Going off on a tangent, I recommend reading "The Secret Barrister" for tales of how borked our judicial system is at the moment.
But I still think they have acted a bit shitty.
Or your relative was confused about the whole thing and wasn’t mislead in any way, what with the custody officer, who would’ve supervised release being independent of the investigation, seeing stuff like this day in day out, invariably cctv’ed and audio recorded so no real incentive to do this or expectation it would’ve passed rudimentary inspection by a solicitor
Or your relative was confused
He's still confused!
Very possibly, he was completely shell shocked by the whole thing.
Good one hols.ha.
According to the internet.....” The origins of the Bar. Lawyers took over the Inner and Middle Temples from the Order of Knights Templar, a Common Bench having been established at Westminster in the late 13th and early 14th century. ... In the 19th century, the Bar firmly became a referral profession acting on the instructions of solicitors.”
Fwiw it was the chairman of the bar council I lazily paraphrased earlier .