Because of the riots in the USA and the sympathy protests here in the UK, I got thinking about times I have encountered overt racism in my life, and my failure at the time to challenge it.
On at least two separate occasions, I remember talking with an elderly person who ended up saying something that, frankly, I couldn't believe.
In both situations, it was about a prominent leader, and the fact that we couldn't possibly countenance him holding power because of the colour of his skin.
Now, I grew up not seeing colour. My parents could probably be described as 'anti-racists' in the sense that they would never in a million years have tolerated racist thought or language. Our family friends were of all different backgrounds and ethnicities, and I was taught that different colours and cultures were just different ways of being human, and therefore to be celebrated.
I admit, though, when I heard the two comments I just referred to, I was dumbstruck. I literally did not know what to say. So I said nothing. I simply changed the subject, then moved away as quickly as I could.
I hope I wouldn't do the same again, but racism seems to arise in really awkward situations, and while, when I was in a classroom, I would have had no problem addressing it, in a social setting I find it much, much harder.
Any experiences on here either similar or much more heroic? I just hope my kids are quicker on the uptake than I am.
Do sometimes wonder whether these days I should challenge anything that may put myself at risk. How am I going to feel afterwards ie have I actually achieved anything such as making someone think, how has it affected me physically by wasting precious energy, will it make me angry/frustrated/disappointed?
Frankly it can be a lot easier just gritting one's teeth and ignoring. A good example was today and decided pdq that it was best to shut up.
I think your attitude was mature, whilst you're a pretty good wordsmith SaxonRider it's not always the right thing to do.
If you're pretty certain you won't get your head kicked in, challenge it.
If in doubt, a hard stare/tut combination, walk away and try never to speak to them again.
Of course, if you have any frozen sausages.......
It's difficult, isn't it? My elderly mother often appears to be racist, commenting on a doctor's ethnicity, for example. But in reality she's quite deaf, and struggles with strong accents.
She's always lived within 20 miles of her home town, so hasn't really experienced anything other than the local accent, or BBC English.
Don't know but politicians like Blow Jo have put back the slow improvement in race harmony at least 10 years.
Of course depends on situation but yes, I would challenge it wherever possible. Even if it's a bit risky, I think it is a duty. Clearly - maybe not at if I found myself accidentally at a NF rally, or the only person on the last bus home with a group of neanderthals.
One example does stand out, at a football match probably 20 years ago - so not height of 80's racism but still quite widespread - and a bloke a couple of rows back was giving an opposition black player all sorts of abuse. In the end I turned round and said words to the effect of 'enough now mate' and for a moment I thought it was going to cause trouble but instantly another couple of people around us agreed and backed me up. I think we'd all been thinking it but it took someone to say something to start the process.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing." said somebody else.
I consider it a duty too, because I'm white I'm in a position of privilege which is not afforded to people of colour, and they may not be in a position to challenge it as they are more likely to face retribution.
It's important to recognise that racism isn't only hate or aggression, it's apathy, indifference, power...
Would people call out racial discrimination or profiling in the workplace for example?
It’s important to recognise that racism isn’t only hate or aggression, it’s apathy, indifference, power…
And ignorance.
Sorry OP, I missed the "How". It depends on what form the racism takes, I've done everything from taking people aside to explain, politely challenging their views in open discussion, throwing an insult, and writing letters.
*Edit Thanks Kryton57, I forgot to point out that the list by Scott Woods isn't exhaustive. Privilege is another
As a anglo saxon male of english protestant descent living in scotland- carefully as i am the oppressor personified!
I have and will challenge it when possible. I also will simply no longer speak to people who have been racist. One lifelong friend of mine I have had to stop speaking to as he is of jewish descent and is unspeakably racist about arabs
The most difficult situation I get is with patients with dementia who are racist towards the staff looking after them. The only real thing to do is protect the staff by keeping them away from the person and explaining to the family that this might mean they have to wait to receive care.
And ignorance.
Strong disagreement here with that, assuming ignorance equals lack of knowledge.
If that's not the meaning intended, then I suggest being more cautious with the use of ambiguous words.
EDIT: That applies to the usage of 'privilege' as well.
The most difficult situation I get is with patients with dementia who are racist towards the staff looking after them.
Good example. Back in Canada, there was a very elderly woman who was absolutely loathsome in her attitude to Native Canadians. My God, her language was terrible. The thing is, she was also slightly crazy, and I think everyone - including me - didn't exactly know how to deal with her. I ended up just apologising to the Cree people whom I knew to have been within earshot of her. Not my finest moment.
OP......"Growing up, not seeing colour" could be part of the problem.
If you want to learn a bit more... have a look at Reni Eddo-Lodge's book "Why i'm no longer talking to white people about race."
Strong disagreement here with that, assuming ignorance equals lack of knowledge.
If that’s not the meaning intended, then I suggest being more cautious with the use of ambiguous words.
EDIT: That applies to the usage of ‘privilege’ as well.
No, ignorance as deliberatly ignoring what's going on, as Hols2 so eloquently demonstrated in the other thread; its not happening to me / where I am / it won't because of my own ethnic situation - so I'll turn the other cheek.
OK Kryton, I'm not entering into an argument over this, but that is not a definition of ignorant.
My son is a security officer at Heathrow. When a passenger was abusing one of his colleagues, he stepped in and did the right thing. He was only 18 at the time. I was immensely proud. You just treat people properly. That is all.
Vinnyeh, if someone makes a racist comment, it is still racist even if it's through ignorance and they don't mean to insult. The difference as to whether the individual is racist or not, is in whether they attempt to rectify their faux pas.
White privilege is also a form of racism as it benefits one skin colour over others, whether or not you intend it it still occurs and you still gain from it.
OP……”Growing up, not seeing colour” could be part of the problem.
I know you're not attacking me, but I don't know what you mean.
We didn't see colour in the sense that when it came to people, they were just people. So, for example, our neighbours were just our neighbours regardless of where they came from of what their background. If we held a bbq for the street, then everyone was invited.
At the same time, people's ethnicity and/or culture was something to share and celebrate.
Does the book you refer to address this? I'd be happy to read...
What makes you think Im arguing? I'm trying to explain what I meant:
Ignorant: lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.
Ok, so maybe I used the wrong word, either you or someone else please feel free to replace it with the correct one.
Now, I grew up not seeing colour.
I was reading the other day a piece that said colour blindness is not ideal, because it means you end up ignoring the things that have already happened and are still happening.
Anyway. When people come out with shocking attitudes I just look horrified and if they care about me they'll feel a bit embarassed and maybe start thinking about it; if they don't care about me then they'll just walk away. May not work for rowdy drunken thugs but then nothing does with them.
on the last bus home with a group of neanderthals.
Racist! Ok, they’re extinct - but no need to rub salt into the wounds by comparing them to neo-Nazis!
Ok, so maybe I used the wrong word, either you or someone else please feel free to replace it with the correct one.
I’m talking about ignoring the issue because its “a black problem”, or “them” or “in America” or ” not here” e.g. non white and not here in a general context
Maybe a better phrase is ‘blissfully-ignorant’? + if it requires ramping-up to ‘wilfully-ignorant’ then there’s that?
I know you’re not attacking me, but I don’t know what you mean
It might seem like a trivial example, but I saw someone talking about how until very recently if you bought a "flesh coloured" pair of tights, or sticking plaster, they were actually "white person flesh coloured". As the only option. Were the tights or plaster manufacturers being deliberately racist? Probably not, if for no other reason than they could have made more money by selling products that worked for non-white people. But they didn't see colour, as in they literally didn't even realise that other colours existed beyond 'white person skin'.
There is all kinds of other stuff about how we are actually different and how, due to racism and prejudice, some people will have a tougher time than others or have fewer opportunities despite putting the same effort in. Saying "I don't see colour", while well intentioned, kind of suggests that you won't consider that. E.g. if you were working for the police complaints people and you said "I just don't see colour, we're all the same on the inside". Well, that's great, but if the police are doing something that means they're getting a disproportionate number of complaints from non-white people, then maybe you should be noticing that colour and wondering if it's got something to do with what's going on.
Not having a go at you at all, just explaining (as a person with a mixed heritage) why that phrase isn't as good as it first sounds.
What makes you think Im arguing? I’m trying to explain what I meant:
And just for clarification, I didn't say you were arguing, I was letting you know that I wasn't arguing with you. I'm trying to tiptoe my way here!
Vinnyeh, if someone makes a racist comment, it is still racist even if it’s through ignorance and they don’t mean to insult. The difference as to whether the individual is racist or not, is in whether they attempt to rectify their faux pas.
White privilege is also a form of racism as it benefits one skin colour over others, whether or not you intend it it still occurs and you still gain from it.
yes I (largely) agree with you over both situations, but I don't think that broad brush words are appropriate- privilege as a shortcut for 'white privilege', and ignorant as a word to describe the situation you've used are just plain wrong- they lack context and nuance, and give licence to people to misinterpret, wilfully or otherwise.
Not having a go at you at all, just explaining (as a person with a mixed heritage) why that phrase isn’t as good as it first sounds.
Thanks for that. Very helpful.
The U.K. culture is still pretty well racist. My wife, an African, noticed a huge difference when she changed her surname. With her African surname she didn’t get many job interviews. With a British surname it opened so many doors.
A few years ago I asked my wife to register me with the medical practice she used as they were much better at giving appointments quickly than the practice I was registered with. She asked and they said he has to come in bring his passport and proof of address and national insurance or NHS card. I said “really I’ve never been asked for that before”. Anyway went to register they didn’t ask me for anything just an address and signature. If I wasn’t white I would have to jump through the hoops.
My wife often gets asked while working in the NHS ‘where are you from”. Then it’s “why did you decide to come here”. Then it’s “ when are you going home”. She’s a British citizen with a U.K. passport and two Scottish kids. I do sometimes wonder what kind of country do we live in. Thankfully most folk are fine but it is surprising how many racists are out there. The first thing they say is “ I’m not a racist”.
I love doing it. I'm bolshie as hell and have ended up in quite a lot of fights over it. It's invigorating and cathartic. I never let it pass if I hear it.
Probably says more about me TBH.
Though if it's family members I go more with the ignoring them thing. Mostly cos they're all huns and will never take a lesson and at least with randoms they can't give my name to the cops.
I also live in a really shitty area, so there might be more going on with that.
I remember talking with an elderly person who ended up saying something that, frankly, I couldn’t believe.
Our old nextdoor neighbour came round to tell us they'd sold the house to a single woman in her 40s 'in case you were worried it would be a family of ****s.'
I took a deep breath and was about to say something but realised it probably wouldn't make a blind bit of difference.
I find that when dealing with older generations you sometimes have to filter out the difference between racist views and outdated language. My wife's grandfather was a classic example of this when still alive - an east ender all his life who doted on his mixed race great granddaughter and would have her bouncing on his knee whilst talking about the 'coloured' lad next door.
As language continues to develop and what was once considered reasonable changes I'm sure I'll stop to keep up at some point and cause consternation and suspicion.
Hi Saxon...... Thanks for being patient and also thanks for acknowledging that I wasn't having a go. I know I can be a little blunt sometimes and was (as you correctly indicated) referring to the wider theme in the book.
I really would recommend Reni's book. I found it really useful. I'm definitely not a wordsmith and would not be able to do her words justice but Reni talks at great (easy to read) length about the phrases "I don't see colour" and "everyone's the same to me."
She suggests that these phrases don't acknowledge that black people have a very different life experience to white people and to deny that there is a "difference" is to deny that the system is rigged in the favour of white people.
It was an interesting read. Made me think a lot about my own upbringing. Think I might just pick it up again.
This seeing of colour good/bad thing.... Surely it is perfectly possible to identify, acknowledge and appreciate the social disadvantage in a broader context (good) whilst not consciously 'seeing' it when serving someone in a shop (also good). When I hear the phrase I think of the latter but don't feel an urge to nit pick and believe they are guilty of the former.
Well I generally call them a racist **** to their face. Last time was last year at a garden party when someone I know who is a Brit living in Germany started spouting off about the influx of middle eastern people into Germany and how they are all rapists and don’t want to integrate into the German society (the fact that he’s lived here as long as me and still can’t string a sentence together in German seemed to be lost on him) and how he voted AFD. Seemed to do the trick as he left pretty sharpish after I told him. 😡
Moonman, so what you're basically saying is 'all lives matter' yeah?
Mooman. Note I did not use the word crazy
I have a situation where a patient is saying " Get that effing N******** away from me" shouting and screaming and being abusive. That staff member is getting upset - badly so. More than half my staff are BAME
Its a horrible situation with no winners. Am I supposed to take white staff away from giving care to other patients? Keep the BAME staff attempting to give care upsetting both the staff member and the patient? The patient physically attacking the staff member? Or ( assuming they are safe) they have to wait until a white nurse is available?
I am afraid you show complete ignorance of what the reality is like in these sorts of situations
Not only do I have a duty of care to the racist patient. I have a duty of care to the staff member and to the rest of the patients. the balance may well be that the racist patient has to wait a bit longer. I would hope not but that may be the reality. what happens if I have more racist patients than white staff available?
The racism is NOT a symptom of the dementia. The dis-inhibition may well be. I still cannot allow that ataff member to be abused
In any other service industry that racist would be denied service. We cannot do that But I am not going to disadvantage other patients to provide white staff on demand.
Oh - and you would not be "pulling me up" about it. You have no standing whatsoever to challenge my professional judgement nor do you have the knowledge.
I find the whole white privilege thing offensive and blatantly ignorant.
Do you deny really white male privilege exists? I find that denial blatantly racist
On a lighter side of this noting the point above about outdated language being not the same as outright racismI did have one patient with dementia who when seeing a BAME staff member would cry out in delight - "Oh look a n*******" Nothing we could do would get her to stop! She was not being nasty deliberatly
How do you challenge racism?
I just avoid them by not even going anyway near them if it means I have to walk double the distance or not go at all.
I have no urge whatsoever to join whatever gathering or crowd or meet new people etc when I think there will be potential trouble especially where alcohol is consumed.
Better that way and less stress, no need to argue or to tell someone how to behave etc coz that is who they are ... these days there is nothing much to interest me anyway.
Throughout my life in UK I have only encountered one person telling me to "go home" shouting from opposite the road once.
I used to have friends telling me they could not make out where I came from perhaps this can be the reason why I only got asked once to go home. I think they see me as no threat because there is only "one" of me ... most of my friends got called all sorts of names.
My advice don't go anyway near the areas where you think there will be potential troubles. Don't even try to justify your views. Just don't go. You will loose nothing but perhaps a bit bored that's all.
My wife often gets asked while working in the NHS ‘where are you from”. Then it’s “why did you decide to come here”. Then it’s “ when are you going home”. She’s a British citizen with a U.K. passport and two Scottish kids. I do sometimes wonder what kind of country do we live in. Thankfully most folk are fine but it is surprising how many racists are out there. The first thing they say is “ I’m not a racist”.
Funny your wife got asked those questions as I got asked the same questions too. I might be a bit thick so did not make anything of it, but when I was the same questions again by the colleague on several occasions I thought to myself one of us might be thicker but let it be.
"where are you from” - I just told them honestly where I came from.
“why did you decide to come here” - I just told them I wanted to see the world and got stuck here (honest).
"when are you going home” - Don't know (honestly).
With humour where possible and evidence. A bloke on our Faceparty group is a shocker (happens to be a jewish landlord), not knee-jerk stuff but real articulated apartheid racism and we're expected to allow it to go unchallenged as he's above criticism.
However anti-racism and anti-sexism should not supplant class politics. Promoting minority groups into management roles and professions, whilst it obviously should happen, does not challenge structural inequality. It just makes it look a bit more like a meritocracy and it's rather jolly for those lucky people who have gone a bit up the social scale.
I can't see people like James Cleverly voting through austerity measures to be of much benefit to your average minority person on the Clapham omnibus. But at least Cleverly shows us you can be a right **** (complete as appropriate) whatever your background, so that's progress of sorts. You come across people who insistently speak the fine and dandy politically correct form of English from countries and cultures where stark racial, sexual and caste divisions are maintained. It helps when it suits, words come free.
No, ignorance as deliberatly ignoring what’s going on, as Hols2 so eloquently demonstrated in the other thread
Whose still posting, you have to question STW/The mods views on racism if stuff like that (and other posts i've seen on here) is allowed to fly
I've cancelled my sub if thats what they think is acceptable
Just to be a pedantic
My wife, an African
She’s a British citizen with a U.K. passport
I don't see an issue with asking about someones heritage. Does your wife speak with a UK accent?
I don't see colour either. your skin colour is irrelevant
She asked and they said he has to come in bring his passport and proof of address and national insurance or NHS card. I said “really I’ve never been asked for that before”. Anyway went to register they didn’t ask me for anything just an address and signature
You sure this a better practice..? You don't need to bring ID with you to register at a practice, but most will ask so that they hold some ID for you. You don't have to provide it (although some GPs will refuse to register you) That they asked and didn't check it at reception says to me that the right hand and the left hand of the GP practice doesn't know what it's doing, not that they're necessarily racist
I’m sorry but those of you stating you don’t see colour likely have the right intentions but are ignoring the fact there is a difference in culture, race and treatment thereof. You should take some time to see it not gray it out, and experience it to gain a perspective. It leans to the phrase “you’ll never know what it’s like to be black” - you won’t if your not but even less so if you consider that all our lives are a level monochrome playing field.
I don't know what it's like to be black but I have stayed in African communities and you occasionally get that 'you whites' bit, good learning curve to be on the other end of a stereotype. I chatted with a black man who said under apartheid he would much sooner work for a white than an Asian. Politically correct Manhattan is about as divided as pre 1990 Johannesburg. Just replacing a white member of the ruling class with a black one doesn't quite deliver, take a look around Harare. When I taught Bengali girls, it seemed the quickest way to commit suicide was to go home and say you'd got a black boyfriend.
but are ignoring the fact there is a difference in culture, race and treatment thereof.
No I'm not, its just not relevant to most things in everyday life.
its just not relevant to most things in everyday life.
Unfortunately for all of us, you are incorrect. A correct statement would be "...its just not relevant to some things in everyday life..."
You'd be surprised how much racial prejudice goes on, on a daily basis in front of your eyes.
Whose still posting, you have to question STW/The mods views on racism if stuff like that (and other posts i’ve seen on here) is allowed to fly
I’ve cancelled my sub if thats what they think is acceptable
Did you report it?
Cancelling your sub because you don't like something posted on a public forum seems a bit of an overreaction, IMO.
Mooman
When in a hole stop digging
You just show your ignorance
What would you do in the situation outlined?
What is your professional expertise in dementia care. Ward management and ethics
I assure you that you do not have the standing to challenge me.
Whilst it is important to see each person as individual, by not acknowledging colour you don't see their difficulties. BAME people face micro-aggressions, discrimination, and hostility daily at school, shopping and work. It's the kids who call them monkey, it's the teacher who blames them because they think black people are stupid, the security guard that follows them because they think black people are dodgy, as well as the boss who thinks they are lazy. You don't have to be a redneck to be racist, educated, kind, and polite people are too.
In response to Tj and Mooman:- If a patient is distressed by the skin colour of a staff member to the point of potentially injuring themselves or others, then surely it makes sense to wait until another member of staff is available, unless it's life or death. I'd entrust a relative's care to Tj, his retirement will be a loss to patients and staff in our NHS
A lot people are talking about getting back to normal. For some people getting back to normal is worse than living with coronavirus.
Is it normal to open your social media or turn on the TV to see a snuff movie, then cut to the advertising break to see a charity ad showing an African child scrambling for water in a dirty puddle with a fly hovering around their mouth accompanied by a celebrity voiceover, reminding us of how caring we are?
We have normalised the brutalisation of black bodies. When the Eric Garner video was shown it offered up proof of what many knew to be situation normal. It was an extraordinary video at the time. Nothing was done. The proliferation and repeated showing of such images in the absence of action amounts not to proof but pornography.
As non minorities we should ask ourselves what kind of normal is this that we want to get back to? We should ask ourselves not only what it does to black people to see themselves reflected through imagery in such a horrific way but what does it do to us that we accept it as some kind of 'normal.
TJ,
I think that most on here can recognise that you have a duty of care to both your patients and your staff.
Moonman, at first I thought you were trolling, now I think you are disturbing. A racist person with dementia is a racist person still, dementia doesnt give you a pass to be racist. Nothing in what TJ said suggested anything other than caree of duty, for everyone. He even caveated his comments with examples of how he could distinguish between racist intent and not on the part of his patients.
Unfortunately for all of us, you are incorrect. A correct statement would be “…its just not relevant to some things in everyday life…
so point out to me an everyday example where skin colour actually matters.
so point out to me an everyday example where skin colour actually matters.
If you don't know you can google it and on the assumption you aren't racist will see a long list quite clearly, I'm not here to respond to your ignorance.
Thanks for the support
Apologies for dragging this off topic but I was angry at the attack on my ethics that is clearly based on a total lack of understanding.
Dealing with people living with dementia who exhibit racist behaviour is challenging to say the least. It's about balancing the needs and rights of all involved and in the case above it was obviously reported up the chain of command for formal review and my approach was considered to follow best practice
I don’t see an issue with asking about someones heritage. Does your wife speak with a UK accent?
Yes she sounds English.
Have a look at this comedy short to help you grasp what I’m talking about
If you don’t know you can google it and on the assumption you aren’t racist will see a long list quite clearly, I’m not here to respond to your ignorance.
so you can't then. It isn't ignorance, I'm calling out your BS.
There are a range of ethic background people at my work and my place of study. Not once has their skin colour affected how I interact with them. I'm guessing they don't change the way they interact with me just because I have white skin.
so you can’t then.
Oh I can, I choose not to.
ethic background people
What, not Black, White, Asian, Middle Eastern?
Not once has their skin colour affected how I interact with them
It just did, see "ethic background people" vs "white skin".
@mooman is your determination to be offended a symptom of an underlying cognitive disorder? If not, stop being an ass.
I work in healthcare, but I have nowhere near the experience TJ has in dealing with dementia patients. However, the situation he describes is all too familiar, and the way he managed it sounds entirely appropriate to me.
Don't forget - Mooman's done a course.
If his posting on this thread is a reflection on how he did the job, he was shit at it.
Mooman, TJ's example is the best of a bad situation i'm afraid and is not bad practice. The mental health of the staff and patients is part of TJ's duty of care. If patients are unable to control their actions/words (due to dementia, which is understandable) then controls MUST be put in place to protect the patients and staff members mental health (part of a Risk Assessment process). Using the hierarchy of controls in the HASAWeA1974 (TJ and the other staff are at work remember) then Elimination of the hazard is the first, and best, control. This is followed by Reduction, so reducing the amount of time a staff member has with that patient. This is exactly what TJ has done.
Thankfully most health care staff are professional and able to work with challenging behaviours from ill people
I didn't know you self-identified as ill - glad to hear that people can accomodate your challenging behaviour.
Whose still posting, you have to question STW/The mods views on racism if stuff like that (and other posts i’ve seen on here) is allowed to fly
I’ve cancelled my sub if thats what they think is acceptable
I can't speak for the others, but this moderator for one doesn't have the faintest scooby what you're referring to. We do not and cannot read every single thread.
Using the "report post" link provided alongside every single post on the forum will immediately bring it to our attention. Cancelling a subscription or publicly whining about it on an entirely unrelated thread in order to have an unsubstantiated pop at a volunteer team, not so much.
Whilst it is important to see each person as individual, by not acknowledging colour you don’t see their difficulties.
Thanks, that's very helpful.
so you can’t then.
Oh I can, I choose not to.
sure
ethic background people
What, not Black, White, Asian, Middle Eastern?
Because I wasn't about to list all the different ethnicities. I'm happy do so if you really want but it is quite diverse and wouldn't serve any purpose.
Not once has their skin colour affected how I interact with them
It just did, see “ethic background people” vs “white skin”.
no it didn't. I'm not interacting with them. I discussing why colour doesn't affect how I interact with people on a forum. It is entirely appropriate to use those terms in this discussion.
I'm going to stop after this because its pointless but;
discussing why colour doesn’t affect how I interact with people on a forum. It is entirely appropriate to use those terms in this discussion.
The fact you either consciously or subconsciously chose the generalise people of any skin colour except your own is directly appropriate to this thread. Its subversive racism whether you meant it to be or not, likely ingrained from many years of our society's inability to treat all people of all races equally.
Now that you realise you've done it, you're pointing out that you don't need to because of the nature of this thread. In which case, why did you need to point out you are White?
I'm not saying you are wrong or right, I just showing you that ingrained racism IS a part of our daily lives whether you realise it or not. You fell victim to racial categorisation (White) and generalisation (ethnic background people) probably without realising it - but you did it and by doing it you segregated White people from everyone else.
Therefore In answer to your question; I've just pointed out to you and everyday example of where the mention of skin colour mattered. You could have rephrased your sentence to tell us/me that you communicated in harmony at work with a wide range of ethnicities... and stopped there. But you didn't, you called out your skin colour as "White" which appears as some kind of moral superior inference to your application. Therefore, skin colour mattered somehow in that sentence, otherwise why mention it?
I think also you could open up this conversation at your workplace - I'm pretty sure your colleagues will tell stories of racial prejudice whether you've observed them or not, which may be an education to you. I know that I received an education from similar exposure.
Anyway, have a good afternoon.
my god you don't half talk a load of snowflake bollox
Thanks for your thoughtful and intellectual response.
@moonman can you describe, in detail, what TJ should be doing instead of what he is doing? You keep mentioning duty of care, to whom, the patient or his staff? After all he has a duty of care for both. Do you think it appropriate to subject a colleague to serious racial abuse irrespective of where said abuse is coming from?
You know about dementia and that’s fine. Knowing is a whole different game to dealing with though. Do you work with dementia patients or are you just well read on the disease?
Back to the OP - Directly is the best way to deal with it. Call it out wherever you see it if you can.
Poah, you seem a little fragile yourself. You may think it isn't relevant to you because you are in a privileged position, but it is to those it negatively affects. It has been articulately explained to you how insidious racism is and you retaliated with an insult, your status is not under threat and you don't need to be so defensive.
Wow there’s quite a few folk on here with their head in the sand.
Interesting to look at what’s happening in the states. KK people burning out shops and breaking windows to pour fuel on the fire. Then Trump calling for the trouble to be put down hard. No attempt by those in power to listen to the grievances and address the issues.
It really concerns me that people like Poah and Mooman are apparently in positions of responsibility. Poah also has form on here for not being able to tolerate other minority groups as well whilst thinking he's behaving correctly.
If they don't want to be educated, probably best just ignored.
Oh, and I'd let TJ look after my elderly parents any day. Even if my Dad does sometimes use inappropriate language, I know he'll deal with it professionally and compassionately.
Quite agree Poah and Mooman do come across very badly on this thread. Maybe it’s time they had a good look in the mirror.
Not being racist is the new racism.
Thanks again for the support.
I'll just add it's also my duty of care to the rest of the patients. If I divert a white member of staff immediately it may compromise others care
I could add a lot more. I doubt mooman is even well read on the topic given his fallacious description of dementia.
I think tho he has dug a deep enough hole. No need for me to fill it in on top of him.
Ignorance certainly can’t explain this behaviour:
https://www.dw.com/en/munich-bans-use-of-nazi-jewish-star-at-coronavirus-protests/a-53644792
Racism is not just whites against blacks .. it can be the other way around too;
And between other ethnic groups as well, even between African cultures, in London there are frequent confrontations between Somali, Ethiopian and other Black African communities resulting in violence, and families from the Indian sub-continent can show similar attitudes towards white English people - there was an Indian girl I used to know who was friends with other friends of mine, and she had an white English boyfriend. Her parents were fine with that, up until she announced they were getting engaged, at which point her parents told her that was unacceptable, and she had to finish with him, otherwise she would no longer be accepted in her family.
She went ahead anyway and they got married. As far as I’m aware, there wasn’t a softening of her parents attitude, although I haven’t seen her around for quite a few years now.
Her family were pretty well-off, and high-caste, so that may have had something to do with things as well.
All very sad.
As other here demonstrate; lack of knowledge of dementia is a significant problem when combined with health care staff who do not know their duty of care.
Thankfully most health care staff are professional and able to work with challenging behaviours from ill people.
@mooman - having read tjagain’s posts, and those who clearly know the system and processes involved and who are backing his actions, I can only suggest you put down that shovel, I’ve got something here that’s better equipped for digging the hole you’re standing in...
...and filling it in again afterwards.
@Cougar - nice response to the toys being tossed out of the park and flouncing back a bit. 😁
But... MOOMAN DID A COURSE!!!
Some of you lot need your heads clashed together.
Read this or so help me god, I'll rap you round the back of your legs with my knuckles.
If wee kids know how to talk about race.... i'm sure you big boys can.
Now play nicely or go to your own rooms and stay there. I'm not putting up with this. Just you wait until your dad gets home......
Oh my word, some of the views and downright rudeness coupled with the refusal to accept that held views may be incorrect is quite scary.
How do you challenge racism, first up educate yourself...
I was reading a lot of stuff last night wondering how best to do this and thought "I know, my mate does loads of work with kids about race and racism, he's always great to talk to about this kind of stuff. I'll ask him." Before doing so I then read something else, don't ask a BAME (Black and Minority Ethnic) person for information about what you should do. Yes, my mate is BAME. I have to mention this because it pertains to my story.
I wanted to ask him for his knowledge because he is BAME and I initially thought that's a good thing to do because I am very white, middle class, straight and have no concept of the microagressions and bias that he faces in his everyday life. I am female so have a tiny understanding of some of it, but it's different. However, I learn that I shouldn't, because in doing I would be asking him to do the work for me. Instead I need to use my own time and energy to find resources to educate myself.
There's loads of stuff out there, when Krpton57 said:
If you don’t know you can google it and on the assumption you aren’t racist will see a long list quite clearly, I’m not here to respond to your ignorance."
he was right, look for it yourself, don't be so lazy and assume that other people will provide the evidence for you. Your opinions have been challenged, if you believe yourself to be so high and mighty that you are incapable of being wrong you are very much part of the problem not the cure.
Having said that, I recognise there are people on here who won't look, or will go to the easiest first source, so here's one on white privilege to get you started: http://www.aclrc.com/white-privilege
A search for information on "unconscious bias" may also be helpful for some people.
In the words of Rachel Cargle ( https://www.instagram.com/rachel.cargle/ )
I implore you to remember — the point of AntiRacism work isn’t to make white people feel they are “doing better” in their positions of privilege and power within this immoral system— it is for them to hold themselves and their white community accountable for addressing and attacking the very system that needs to be destroyed in order for black people to stay alive and to be well.
And now I set you free to look, learn and educate yourself to be better, off you trot and don't come back until you've learnt something and have references to back it up.
Nice one Kip! 👍🏼
How do you challenge racism?
Three pages in and have we decided if it's a big stick, or ostracization ?
