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Parents are in their mid-80s. Dad has Alzheimers. Mum is just very trusting.
In the last 4 weeks, they'd signed up to their double glazing units being replaced, but I managed to intervene and get that cancelled. Last week they'd had a call, ironically from a company purporting to sell phones that 'filter out' and stop cold-callers, ringing with bank details and saying if my parents didn't pay £160, their line would be cut off. Today, I ring to check in on my parents, to find out there's a loft insulation company there, who've told them their current insulation is damp and it needs to be replaced. Installers have started work so too late to back out.
Overall, these cold calling companies would have taken nearly £10k off my parents in a month.
I keep explaining to Mum not just to agree/sign up until she's had a chance to discuss with me ... but she keeps doing it!
Anything more I can do. Is there a way of getting their number removed from databases, or blocking cold calls?
Does this still work? We signed up to it a few years ago and the number of cold calls dropped hugely. They do seem to be creeping back up again though.
*Ah, I just had a look at the TPS website and sure enough, pretty much all the landline cold calls we get nowadays are 'Marketing' or scammers trying to get us to renew our kitchen appliance insurance.
Sorry to hear this. It's a very difficult situation for both you and them, as it's another step in losing your independance.
My Mum's generally pretty savvy, but over the last few year's we've 'programmed' her with a few automatic responses - if it's anything domestic she tells them her son's a building inspector and she'll get him to call them back and if it's IT/phone related she says the accounts aren't in her name so they'll need to call her son. Seems to get rid of them pretty quickly and easily.
See if the phone number can be changed - and make it ex directory?
Mum is just very trusting
Trusting isn't the right word, and you know this too - TBH you've two choices, let it happen or take away her power to spend money (that isn't in her purse and or limited current account).
Use social media too name and shame the company's that are doing it. I've stopped 3 different "traders" from doing completely unnecessary work on 2 of my OAP garden customers houses, and been too late with another 2 who just blatantly took advantage of vulnerable old people.
I would change number - we inherited a phone number that from day 1 was battered by various companies selling house things - windows, solar, heat pumps, boiler cover, roof cleaning - you name it. The number was clearly on a list somewhere, they even asked for someone by name regularly.
Also, see if you can get some financial controls in place / power of attorney.
yeah new landline number, or just disconnect it (does anyone legit actually call them? do they have mobiles?)
video doorbell that alerts on YOUR phone when rung? If you are quick enough you can tell the double-glazing salesmen etc to eff off, at least you'll know they're there/have been even if your mum answers the door to them!
Big laminated A4 note stuck to the table next to the phone telling them what to say to any callers
"I don't know anything about this, please call my son/daughter on XXX and they'll discuss it with you. Goodbye".
Get the landline disconnected. Replace with a mobile with big buttons and a docking station charger.
A Smarty SIM starts at £5/month. BT line rental is £22/month. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
BT Call Guardian phones - you will have to programme in acceptable numbers and anyone wanting to call needs to leave a message first. Completely stopped dodgy callers to our house as the phone won't ring until a message is left and the 'new' caller has to wait.
"Installers have started work so too late to back out."
Not necessarily true, worth consulting Trading Standards if the work seems unnecessary to you. Easy to show when a trader has bullied a person into agreeing to work.
We had this with my Grandpa who was worryingly susceptible to cold callers both in person and on the phone. It was only the intervention of a neighbour that chased off a "builder" who "happened to be walking by and spotted his dangerous gutter" but could have it fixed in a jiffy for £2000 up front so he could buy the materials and then a further £2000 once work was complete.
When he died, my Mum found that he had about 4 boiler guarantee subscriptions active, all from various companies phoning up saying "imagine how terrible it'd be if your boiler broke down, it'd cost thousands - by paying £10 a month we can save you from all that..."
We (me and my sister) are in the same position now with our Mum who uses the internet a fair bit and is comfortable with sending emails, doing online banking and some basic online shopping. She's under strict instructions to call one of us if she is at all unsure of anything and NEVER to click on links or respond to unsolicited messages without talking to us first. So far, she's been OK.
Agree with @Cougar - that landline is probably on some sort of dark web "this person is an easy target" list so that needs to come out or be thoroughly locked down with Call Guardian.
Also, see if you can get some financial controls in place / power of attorney.
We have this for my Mum now but it can only be used once the person is no longer able to make their own decisions, it's not a safety check for what they're spending normally. By all means get one in place - before they get to the stage of [i]non compos mentis[/i] - but it won't stop her spending money if a scammer gets to her.
A change of phone number helps if that’s not too dispruptive
when my mum who has altzeimers was still living independently I set up a call recoding facility which helped get to the bottom of any transactions that were coercive and we were able to undo various subscriptions. If people have lied that’s one thing but if you’re obviously coaching someone vulnerable through the process because they’re confused then there’s a point where even legit sales people should realise what they’re doing and should have stopped.
I think sometimes sales work is so difficult folk are too surprised at their luck when it’s easy
Sign on the door saying "we do not buy on the doorstep" or "no door to door salespeople".
Another +1 for changing their number or getting rid of landline.
And +1 for laminated card with instructions.
My folks live in rented accommodation so it's an easy "you need to speak to the landlord" answer. I also use that one when anyone calls here!
They're probably of a generation where he did the finances and she didn't. So she's now got a lot of extra responsibility there.
Same as my folks, and it's been tough for mum to step up and get used to banks and banking. My dad until a couple of years back was paying (get this) about £250 per month on food for a cat. That wasn't their cat.
So I'd also agree with the suggestion of taking money off them, or tying it up somewhere it can't be got at. POA probably not needed yet, but it can't hurt to have the conversation.
£250 per month on food for a cat.
What was he feeding it, gold? 👀
I'd suggest now is the time to put POA's in place. Better slightly too soon than too late. Also, get your name on your parent's bank account if possible so you can track things online, and this makes things a lot easier if you have to start managing things.
Scum of the earth these people, there needs to be something done about it.
In the last few months before she died, my nan had at least a new conservatory roof put on, new electric riser sofas, electric bed, and even FTTP internet (she had no computers or smartphone!)
She actually signed up to far more than that but my poor mum was working solidly just trying to undo it all.
I'm convinced my nan ended up on a "mugs" list as when you were visiting, it was a constant stream of cold calls coming in, even though she was signed up to the TPS.
I bought my mum a new answerphone. If the incoming number was not preprogrammed in to the base unit, it would ask the caller to press 5 to be connected. The phone did not even ring if they failed to press 5. Most calls stopped after I installed it as the autodiallers don’t listen/understand/react.
Terrible situation these guys get away with it, you could set limits on online transactions to say 100 quid. Also, check post as once on scammers list you get bombarded. 're cold callers I d write out a script your parents could read out without opening door. These sellers are v good at what they do, just don't let them in.
Also report to trading standards, they may not have committed a crime but should be on their radar.
So. Bit of an update. Went up to my parents this morning, the work had nearly finished, spray foam all over the underside of the rafters and both gable end walls in the loft.
The surveyor / salesperson rocked up whilst I was there, couldn't answer even basic questions I had about why the work needed to be done. He put me on the phone to the Director of the company ('Marcus' FFS ... apologies if anyone here has that name) who tried schmoozing and smooth talking me.
£5.5k. For 2 hours work!!!
Just spoken to Citizens Advice. Basically, advice is that my parents (well, my Mum) had capacity to agree to the contract, so there is little that can be done now the work has been undertaken, other than contact the trader seeking a goodwill gesture.
Not to make things worse, but I'm sure we've had threads on here saying that the spray foam insulation can cause more problems than it fixes...
EDIT: https://hoa.org.uk/advice/guides-for-homeowners/i-am-improving/spray-foam-roof-insulation/
Yes, as it dries it leaves a non pourus crust on the top. Any moisture cant penetrate the foam and find its way out.
So it condenseses on the coldest thing in the loft area. Chimney, gable wall, water tank etc
£5,500 is a complete rip off, but you know that already.
My friends dad fell for the old Microsoft help line, you have a virus on your computer and we need to act now to save your laptop and secure your data. He gave them 3rd party access and sat and watched as they opened the Internet banking shortcuts. Fortunately common sense prevailed and he pulled out the modem cable.
£5.5k. For 2 hours work!!!
How have your parents paid for this? Surely they don't have that sort of cash lying around the house?!
Be worth getting some sort of security check put on their bank account if possible - any transaction over a certain amount flags up an alert to you or gets stopped at source until further checks have been done.
This might be of use:
@hardtailonly sorry to hear about this. Nightmare.
Power of Attorney asap.
Do your parents realise what has happened / see the issue? Hopefully this is at least a lesson to them.
Do your parents realise what has happened / see the issue? Hopefully this is at least a lesson to them.
Dad doesn't. TBH, he no longer understands much anymore. Mum sort of does, when I explain it, and the need to pick up the phone and check stuff out with me. But then she seemed to understand it after the double-glazing near miss less than a month ago.
POA is a tricky one. We've been talking about it for years. Dad always said "when the time comes ... " and now it's too late for him to give consent for POA, as he (probably) lacks capacity. I think my Mum would be fine about it, and would give consent and allow me to oversee all the stuff Dad used to do. But not sure how that happens when everything is in joint names, or his name only?
Thanks for all the advice on here, some stuff for me to look into more.
Trouble with changing phones numbers is a) old people have many many people who will only dial a land line and b)they can't call all those people to say that it has changed. My mum gets dozens of calls a day, all legitimate.
@hardtailonly - It's not Citizens Advice you want to speak to. Trading Standards is your man/pronoun of choice.
IIRC what's crucial is the time between your folks being offered the work and the work starting. There has to be sufficient "cooling off period", aka opportunity to cancel having had a minute to think about it.
I don't want to raise your hopes. CA could be right having heard all the facts, but TS exist for a reason.
Just spoken to Citizens Advice. Basically, advice is that my parents (well, my Mum) had capacity to agree to the contract, so there is little that can be done now the work has been undertaken, other than contact the trader seeking a goodwill gesture.
My old uncle agreed to some ridiculously priced multi-year phone contract via cold call sale. I wasn't involved in the aftermath myself, but IIRC it came down to either accept it, or get him declared as not of sound mind, which would then allow some kind of other complaint to be made. He had enough of his mind left to object to relatives declaring him as so, so nothing happened.
Just to correct some misapprehensions - a PoA for financial affairs can be used even if the donor has capacity (you need to choose to set this up but it’s just a checkbox on the form). I do this for my mum. However it wouldn’t help in overruling or rescinding any decision she had taken, so it’s not really an adequate solution here.
Bottom line is you can’t really stop someone making poor decisions unless you can get a doctor or court to rule that they are no longer capable of making their own decisions. My mother votes Tory for example. You could make it harder in a practical sense by shutting off avenues as others have suggested.
For all his faults, at least my increasingly demented FiL is tighter than a gnat’s chuff so there’s precious little chance he’ll fall for any of these scams. Every time any amount of money is mentioned for any reason, he instinctively reacts with “ooh that sounds like a lot of money”. It could be a 2 quid bus fare, 3 quid per month internet deal, anything really. “Ooh that sounds like a lot of money”.
Sorry have I digressed?
In fact FiL did have some funny attempted home appliance insurance scam recently. It was 7 quid a month so “ooh that’s a lot of money” and it went nowhere. They claimed he’d applied for it, which is borderline possible, but unlikely, and backed off very quickly indeed when my wife phoned them up.
Ring door bell is first on the list.
I know this because I was told by one of the builders I stopped working on a property that they know that.
A. recorded conversations can be used as evidence (highly unlikely but I wasn't letting him know)
B. means it's less likely to someone of age in the house.
They told me this because in his words "plenty of old ***** in this village we can talk to"
Next is cameras in the house that you can talk back to this might sound awful but you can keep an eye on everything pain in the arse to monitor but I've set one up for someone facing the front door from the inside so it only pings when the old boy is anywhere near the door.
Then change the phone number just do it they will be on a list.
If they don't have BB get it for security products like cameras it might seem silly if they don't have a PC ect but could make their life more tolerable if it stops door knocking.
Also BT and sky do call shielding that actually works .
From experience it won't stop unless you make the property look like someone not so vulnerable is there.
Good luck
To anyone considering PoA,
I looked into this last week. According to gov.uk it can take up to 20 weeks 👀 to process.
Can you get a building inspector in for the foam & see if the approach meets the standards? If not that might give grounds for non payment?
As mentioned, I've read of several issues which would have me concerned.
To anyone considering PoA,I looked into this last week. According to gov.uk it can take up to 20 weeks 👀 to process.
Can confirm - my sister and I now have PoA for my Mum. We signed the papers at Christmas time, the final agreement came through in the last 2-3 days.
And as mentioned, it doesn't give either of us control over her finances to the extent we could stop her being scammed. If she chooses to pay (eg) a builder, there's nothing either of us would know, or be able to do, about it.
As above get POA sorted - essential advice for anyone with ageing relatives.
I had the same issue with my mother receiving scam calls and installed a Truecall unit,this only allows permitted numbers to get through, anyone else got a polite recorded message to ring my number.
It lists all numbers ringing in and out, on the website, and you can also set it up to record all calls. This allows you to check on what was said if calls do get through. Not cheap at circa £150 but very practical.
BT Call Guardian phones
As @fossy says get one of these. It completely stopped spam calls to my inlaws.