[Closed] How bad is the recession?

Yeah, but didn't they also make a 4% profit?

If I didn't watch the news, I wouldn't have a clue there was a recession on.

We're not in recession, are we?

So it's all peachy then? Coolio. 🙂
EDIT: This isn't just a comment about Lloyds, but any company that lays off 14% of its staff.

The Lloyds thing though is rather interesting. Job losses, but a return to profitability which benefits govt finances.. and that's our worst issue.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13972388

Btw big layoffs are not always because of companies struggling. Sometimes (as in this case) they are because of takeovers and the resultant streamlining.

Over the hill from Spain you will enjoy a brief period in which things improve, then you'll cross the Channel and it will be much like Spain. 8)

well we get most of our income from the government the rest from charity

the big reduction in charity funding would suggest we are in a recession
the reduction in government funds its harder to tell if its just shortsighted tory cuts ?

either way quite a lot of redundancies at our site and at the places we collaborate with and infact the entire scientific research industry according to the reps ive been speaking to

TBH LloydsTSB is still seriously bloated from gobbling up HBOS at the government's request; it's only natural that there'll still be some thinning of duplicate/surplus jobs.

Imagine your local high street where there's a branch of Lloyds and one of the Halifax; it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that one of them will sooner or later become surplus to requirements for the newly merged company. Same goes for the various admin, HR, IT & other related jobs at "head office"

[i]the big reduction in charity funding would suggest we are in a recession[/i]
no I'd say its a result of Cutback Cameron's "slash & burn" policies. Much like the last "new" Tory government under Thatcher...
So no, I don't think this is a company in recession. a company formed as a result of recession, perhaps.

Remember when Safeway got bought by Morrisons? Lots of surplus stores & jobs there too.

I think it's called "supply & demand" 😉

Btw big layoffs are not always because of companies struggling. Sometimes (as in this case) they are because of takeovers and the resultant streamlining.

This long |<------->|

Mmm. Peaches...

[img] [/img]

It just got me thinking about the state of the UK

Basically, It's not peachy, but it's not too bad. Not Germany, but not Greece either 🙂

molgrips - Member
We're not in recession, are we?

Technically the economy isn't. Sectors, or parts of sectors probably are but that is harder to measure. But definitions don't really matter when you're losing your job or your business is going under or there aren't any jobs for you.

I used to work for HBOS. Everyone I know still there are hoping for VR to get the **** out.

I guess it's a bit different here, but I'm seeing shops close on a daily basis, literally. It gets a bit worrying when Santander are closing branches too. Just hoping the UK is a bit better. 😕

Lol @ the Pimpmaster

we're all buggered.

As long as our economy is fundamentally oil based we're screwed.

we're all buggered.

Supply wet wipes to the recently buggered Don simon?

Its a LOT worse than you may think.
Just wait for the interest rates to go up will be the clincher
think the Bank Of England is siding with the Goverment at the moment but just a matter of time
now that we have borrowed a huge amount to bail out Greece and we still have Ireland and no
idea of the cost when Scotland goes on there own and then no doubt Wales shall follow.

Then just wonder what will happen after the Euro collapses and then have to payout for the Migrants we have has there be no handout from Germany or France.

We will be well ****ed.

I am actually trying to be serious here, but hey ho! 😕

in the south east , it doesnt feel like it .

Don, have a look at some of the figures on the ONS website, or have a read of the FT for proper insight.

we are indeed doomed. well.... some of us are. Most of us actually. But we can all take solace, as our standard of living enters terminal decline (for that is surely what it is) that the masters of the universe, the bankers, the wealth creators in the boardrooms will continue to get richer and richer and richer and richer and richer and richer and richer and richer..........

In ten years time when we're bartering with chickens in mud huts, and beating each other to death with human leg-bones, the modern-day equivalents of Fred Goodwin will be cruising above us in gold-plated hover-cars, quaffing vintage champagne and laughing their arses off!

The last 3 years has been seen as a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to rebalance things, permenantly in their favour. There's no coming back from this.

Welcome back to England as a victorian theme park. WOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Something like this don simon

I think the word you're looking for, grantway, is doomed. That would appear to be a worst case scenario.
The €uro question is quite interesting in that will it fail or not? Or will it be allowed to fail or not? To me it has failed but Germany and france can't let it fail. Spain might stand a better chance if it could devalue the Peseta.
As the UK is outside the €urozone, I'm trying to get a feel as to if things are different there..

When everyone knows it has failed and nearly brought every country involved with it down.
Even the Germans do not want it.
Also there is so much owned here by other countries that will shore sell up to look
after there own country's, will be a total disaster for this country so without choice
we shall fail.

But it has only failed in its current form though, there was always a point for me that Spain was heading for a double whammy in that we were always going to lose the subsidies and also be expected to pay subsidies into the emerging economies of Eastern Europe. Without manufacturing and exports to fill the new infrastructure out of spain we were always going to be ****ed. add that to the Mediterranean attitude and we're double ****ed.
Split the €uro into two, Germany, France, UK and the stronger economies, and a second tier for the weaker therefore protecting folks... I don't know.
Fortunately spain hasn't needed an IMF bailout, but it's on the cards and the country is not in good shape. 🙁

But definitions don't really matter when you're losing your job or your business is going under or there aren't any jobs for you.

Definitions are hugely important. Losing you job when the economy is growing by 5% annually is quite different to losing your job when the economy is contracting by 5% annually. It certainly makes a massive difference to me - I can walk into a job the next day when the economy is growing at the rate of of about 2-3%, no such possibility when its in recession.

Most people probably believe that we have been in continuous recession since 2007/08. No doubt the present government's talking down of the economy with all their gloom and doom has greatly contributed to this. Which is rather handy for them as the current 0.5% growth is so fragile that their policies will almost certainly plunge us back into recession. And all those who think we have been in continuous recession won't blame this government. It's all the fault of the last government. And the unions of course. Nothing to do with the bankers though.

[img] [/img]

This seems to be pretty much a signature Lloyds move- "Quick- sack all the staff we can, even the ones we need in order to function as a bank. That's [i]efficient[/i]!"

Example:
A few years ago, Lloyds relocated their BACS team to Gillingham to save a fairly trivial amount of money. They predicted that staff would relocate, but not enough did to keep the team as a functioning unit, and that broke a core function of the bank beyond their ability to repair- they just didn't have the skills to bootstrap a new team.

As a result they had to contract HBOS in to train the new staff how to run the BACS system. In the meantime they lost a number of high-value customers and lost significant amounts of money, literally lost it, as in "We sent this by BACS somewhere, now we don't know where". The people in charge of the project got promoted for the "efficiency savings" because the costs all went to different budgets.

So, a few years later LTSB took over HBOS, and immediately set about... closing the HBOS BACS team and moving it to Gillingham! Now I'm not going to complain, because at this point they gave me a big pile of money to leave a company that was obviously run by acid freaks.

But I have to admit that when they phoned me up to say "Help! We've hopelessly ****ed up the BACS unit by laying off everyone who had a clue!", I did enjoy being able to say "Ah well, last time you did that you just went to HBOS to fix it, they had a good BACS team. Oh, no, wait..."

Anyway, that's Lloyds layoffs. I daresay lots of managers are about to get efficiency bonuses and lots of customers are about to get the shaft. The point of this story is that you shouldn't neccesarily read anything into massive Lloyds layoffs. It's their corporate equivalent of idly shuffling paperwork when you've got nothing else to do.

Fast Edit Ernie, they call him...!

To the OP, it's a difficult question to answer.

On one hand we are doing so bad that we are in the process of drastically reducing the wages of teachers, nurses, doctors, bin men, dinner ladies, social workers etc. before making massive changes to their pension contributions (although the money is not going into a pension fund but directly to the exchequer to be spent - then in 5 years time they can tell us again theres no money in the pension fund).

However, it is doing well enough that the average payrise is over 2% (govt figures), meaning, with the frozen public sector wages, that those in the private sector must be doing very well.

HTH

And all those who think we have been in continuous recession won't blame this government. It's all the fault of the last government. And the unions of course. Nothing to do with the bankers though

i got laid off around 6 weeks ago and i'm finding it hugely difficult to find another job.

it feels like the 1980's again in my world 😐

i'm finding it hugely difficult to find another job.

🙁 I hope you find something soon - it's likely to get [i]a lot[/i] harder.

To try and answer the OP:
a) strictly speaking there is no recession as the economy is growing (slowly)
b) beware of people giving you answers which reflect their political beliefs, not the basic facts (but you know that already, this is STW!)
c) IME whether life is good, ok, or a struggle right now depends a lot on personal circumstances. I'm moving back to London after losing my job in Manchester and London feels like it always has, thriving. Manchester feels a lot quieter economically - I couldn't even get an interview in 2 months.
Equally if you feel secure in your job, it's probably ok.
IME people are confused between 'recession' which is a technical definition with negative emotional connotations and the combined emotional effect of fear of job losses, stagnant housing market, rising food and petrol prices and fear of interest rate rises. I don't think the media or the man on the street is making a distinction between the two. ie: although the economy is growing, we're all feeling a bit pressured and scared about the future, as we have since end 2008.
I suspect any serious economist would point out our prospects are better than USA, Spain, Greece, Portugal, Italy, Ireland and Greece which puts UK in a better place than most of Europe, but the media story doesn't reflect that.

There are lots of people with 'keep calm and carry on' memorabilia which I like. Digging in and getting on with it. That, I think, is the truth about how most people feel in the UK. Not fun but ok and coping...

The aim, which would be good news for all of us as taxpayers and owners of 41% of Lloyds, is to return Lloyds to profitability on a sustainable basis.

TBH LloydsTSB is still seriously bloated from gobbling up HBOS at the government's request; it's only natural that there'll still be some thinning of duplicate/surplus jobs.

Under Mr Horta-Osorio's new strategy, Lloyds will become a much more UK-focussed bank - whose recovery will to a large extent be dependent on the UK's economic recovery.

Which means that Lloyds will have a big incentive to contribute to that recovery by providing adequate access to credit to small businesses and households that need it.

Lloyds is withdrawing from more than half of the 30 countries overseas where it currently operates. And it will attempt to reinvigorate the Halifax brand, to compete with the Lloyds brand.

DS it really depends i think those in work now will probably stay there but in general most sectors are not recruiting massively nor investing a great deal. Wages seem to be on downward spiral and most jobs have a pool of very well qualified/experienced folk to apply for them. My view is skewed as I deal with the unemployed and it is the worst I have seen by some way - I have only done this for a decade so i cannot compare it to other bad times to be fair but it is bad.
Still opportunities if you have the right skills but quite limited even in teaching
yu can e-mail me if you want specific information on sectors or areas as I can provide some quite dull stats for you.
EDIT: I think we use the term recession becaus eour real term wages are indecline so whatever the economy is doing most individual are worse off now than they were last year and the year before. The national economy may not be in recession but the workers within it generally are.

I hope you find something soon

ta

it's likely to get a lot harder

😥

The economy may be (apparently) growing - though its where it was 6 months ago. But the drop economic performance was [b]HUGE[/b]. so we're recovering from an incredibly weak position anyway. It'll take an eternity to get back to where we were. Its truly dire. And I can't possibly see how this governments policies aren't going to make it infinitely worse befoe it gets better. We may well be staring down the barrel of the perfect economic storm

Oh well... at least we're all in it together eh? I find that comforting

Oh... and good luck trailmonkey. Been there last year. I feel your pain fella

with you binners what do you think george and Dave have cut back on ? It is not smugness.

I work for a bank in a fairly senior role. (for the last 2.5 years)

The last few years have been very good for me.

On my current salary I can do many things that I want to: in particular extend my house (and mortgage to the tune of £40-50k).

However, I have no confidence that I can maintain my current income for the next "x" years until retirement.

Hence I an reluctant (to put it mildly) to take on any more long-term debt.

I am sure many people are in the same position as me.

I think this is the crux of the problem we face for the forseeable future - lack of confidence leading to lack of spending, leading to lack of economic growth.

yes most folk are just like you..I mean who would want to spend more than 50 K on the mortgage/house extension ?
And they say bankers are out of touch

Right on brother. Don't let your prejudice blind you.

Thanks for your contribution. We really are all in this together. Oh... did i mention I lost my business last year. And just about everything I own, bar the clothes i was stood up in. Anyway... how's the extension? Everything you hoped it'd be?

Over and out.

The STW bitter and twisted are out to play. Apologies for attempting to add a valid point to this thread, how silly of me.

Don't choke on your bile boys.

Binners, what was the business you lost?

Cheers Junky, I'm not looking for work even though I am now officially unemployed and probably enemployable! My change is to start a new business between the UK and Spain and I'm just trying to get a feel for the UK. The stories I have from here are frightening, local authorities that are paying the bills with land because they don't have money putting major employers under huge pressure. 😯

It'll take an eternity to get back to where we were

Personally I think this is possibly the biggest problem - one of the perception that 15 years of continuous growth was normal and sustainable, and the debt we built up desireable...

We took on massive debts and were spending money that none of us actually had. And I mean WE: the government, banks, companies, the people. IMHO we properly lost the plot, there were riots outside Topshop and Ikea FFS!

What we're going through is a necessary correction, hopefully to something more sustainable over the long term - steady, sensible growth. To expect to get back to where we were is IMO a) unrealistic and will lead to disappointment and b) undesireable...

You know I think you have done more to progress the argument that all the bankers that got us in to this mess are unsympathetic unrepentant ****s than I could ever hope to achieve

I think this is the crux of the problem we face for the forseeable future - lack of confidence leading to lack of spending, leading to lack of economic growth.

Anyway... how's the extension? Everything you hoped it'd be?

I'm off to kip now, but try and read a post properly before you reply - I have no extension, I don't have the confidence in my future earning potential to take on extra debt for one. Hope this doesn't spoil your argument.

oooh banker bashing! 😀 We love that.

I've worked for 3 banks. Does that basically make me satan?

You know I think you have done more to progress the argument that all the bankers that got us in to this mess are unsympathetic unrepentant **** than I could ever hope to achieve

Assuming that's aimed at me...it really never fails to amaze me that people on here don't bother to read posts properly before venting their spleen.

On my current salary I can do many things that I want to: in particular extend my house (and mortgage to the tune of £40-50k).

However, I have no confidence that I can maintain my current income for the next "x" years until retirement.

Hence I an reluctant (to put it mildly) to take on any more long-term debt.

I've worked for 3 banks. Does that basically make me satan?

oooh banker bashing! We love that.

I've worked for 3 banks. Does that basically make me satan?

You utter utter waste of space. Don't you know you have no right to voice an opinion on here??

@aka_Gilo

Don't you know sarcasm when you see it?... Go to bed mate.

Deliberately ambiguous to get the reaction you wanted. Good, but not good enough. I call troll.

*Sighs* Is voicing a point of view that goes against the STW bullyboy massive really only likely to be deemed a troll?

How depressing.

@aka_Gilo

Don't you know sarcasm when you see it?... Go to bed mate

Sorry. I'm so dim.

You utter utter waste of space. Don't you know you have no right to voice an opinion on here??

*Sighs* Is voicing a point of view that goes against the STW bullyboy massive really only likely to be deemed a troll?

How depressing.

What sort of work are you looking for junkyard?

**** it. you know some people struggle some don't. 'dems de breaks.

I've not noticed a recession. I'm gone from strength to strength. Am I supposed to feel guilty? I'd love to but I didn't see any ****er helping me out when I had nothing 😀

I've not noticed a recession. I'm gone from strength to strength. Am [b]I supposed to feel guilty? I'd love to but I didn't see any **** helping me out when I had nothing[/b]

Opinions, yes. Extreme opinions to wind up, no!

don - serious question - why do you think I was trying to wind people up?

I gave an honest opinion - I've done well over the last few years, and I am acutely aware that many have suffered and are suffering. My point was / is that if people such as myself who are *curently* doing ok but have little or no confidence in the short-medium term economic future of this country and hence will not take out further credit, I think we as a country have a problem.

Bitter? You don't know the meaning of the ****ing word! I'm sorry if thats upset you. And your extension.

Graphic design business I lost. Spent 5 years building it from nothing. Worked my ass off for virtually nothing at the start. But build it we did, and we were doing well. Then it went tits up. We had 3 clients fold in quick succession owing us tens of thousands. for work done. One a huge multinational. Then cancelled contracts. Then had our offices burgled that cleared out all our kit. It was all fun and games

Then, when i wound the company up I was told at the job centre that seeing as i was still listed at companies house as a company director , I was still officially 'employed'. So despite paying tax and NI every day of my life, I was entitled to nothing until the company was wound up. It took eleven months. So during that time... two kids - no income. as in £0 per week. Picking up freelance where i could get it. Of which there was virtually none. Full council tax, rent and bills to pay etc with zero income

So.... going back to the OP's question: how bad is this recession? I'm just glad I'm alive. It could have gone the other way on a number of occassions. If it wasn't for my girls and a wonderful woman who put up with the inevitable mental collapse.... So.... There's nothing you can do to me that hasn't been done to me. I've lost everything. And I don't care. I'm alive. And I've been taught about what really matters in life.

So do forgive me if I don't want to hear about your extension

100% agree. What line of work are you?

IT security. Via selling beds, shoveling shit in a garden centre and getting shot at in the army.

Never been on the dole. Never went to Uni. Got everything through my own efforts and on merit.

Assuming that's aimed at me.

Why dont you defend your own view rather than just attacking those criticising you ?
You do seem a bit out of touch whilst telling us many "people " feel like you. Real wages/disposable income has been cut and are reducing still, unemployment has rises most people have not had a good time the last 2.5 years even if you have.
EDIT:

I've done well over the last few years, and I am acutely aware that many have suffered and are suffering. My point was / is that if people such as myself who are *curently* doing ok but have little or no confidence in the short-medium term economic future of this country and hence will not take out further credit, I think we as a country have a problem.

Binners- that's horrendous. I do feel for you (and please don't take that as patronising). Unfortunately as part of my job I speak to people in similar positions to you on a regular basis.

My point is that I could easily have ended up in your position, and equally you could be in my position.

I fully understand why you feel so bitter, and in this debate my desired (but unlikely to happen) extension has no relevance.

The point is that while those of us who (so far) have continued to do ok have no confidence in the economic future of this country, we have a problem.

Apologies if you think I came across as not giving a sh*t for those who are struggling - that really isn't the case.

you expressed that view rather poorly and this make a much more coherent and reasonable point.
I suspect you will blame my comprehension though

Fair enough, maybe my point wasn't clear.

don - serious question - why do you think I was trying to wind people up?

Because of the wording.

On my current salary I can do many things that I want to: in particular extend my house (and mortgage to the tune of £40-50k).

I work for a bank in a fairly senior role. (for the last 2.5 years)

The last few years have been very good for me.

I'd blame your comprehension and I'm neutral. Seemed clear enough to me.

Its DS who want help I have lots of work I work with the unemployed

I think the mood on this forum recently tells you about the impact of the recession 🙁
Is this the first time an STW row has ended with apologies all round for flying off the handle? Maybe things are picking up 😉

don - maybe the point I was making could have been better expressed, nonetheless I stand by it.

The important thing is that people on here who are having a terrible time of things are getting the impression that I don't give a damn. That bothers me because nothing could be further from the truth.

I hope the mods are reading this. 😈

I'd blame your comprehension and I'm neutral. Seemed clear enough to me

aka_Gilo You tell us the problem with a stagnant economy is people who have money available in some form not having the confidence to part with the money. Hence the ever decreasing circle of economic pessimism.

You have the money available. You must therefore be the block to such 'progress'? Come on find the confidence. Think of the children

Nice try but lets just let some peace break out for an evening eh I really cant be arsed tbh

I'm not trying to wind you up either. Just seemed like folk were having a pop at that other lad for no good reason.

I'm not having a pop at you. Honestly. I'm bitter about the fact that people like me are invisible. There's a lot of us but we don't even figure on the radar. Nobody cares! Really. Nobody gives a *! And its people like me who are meant to take the risks to get us out of the recession.

And one of the guys who went bust on us? Owing money for a full e-commerce website - put his company in receivership, then bought it back a week later for a token fee. He's driving around in an AMG merc still. And still doing business on the website he never paid for. But I can't do anything about it, because its 'legal'.

The rules are stacked in the favour of big business and they're becoming more so. If you asked me if you should starta small business now. I'd say you'd have to be out of your *ing mind.

So where is this economic recovery going to come from? All that's on the governments radar is the intersts of big multinationals, banks and private equity. And they are strangling the 'real' economy. But no-one in power is even prepared to address this

We're all ****ed I'm afraid

billysugger - I am thinking of (my) children. Hence the play safe mentality. Not a train of thought I have much experience of.