Housing market! Sellers need to get real

thinly veiled I sold my house too cheap, ffs

Bugger all is selling round my way - so a good start getting a sale!

And lots that were for sale are being pulled from the market.

you need to be selfish though - don’t move out of yours until something right for you comes along. Or you’ll end up selling cheap, get stuck in rented, then the market will rise! 😬

It depends if they're genuine sellers, or just speculators, there's a lot of those on the market just now, seeing what they could get for their house to then move up or whatever.

The market is going downwards, will be for a couple of years, inflation appears to be better, but interest rates not coming down too fast, and doubt mortgage offers will be any better for a couple of years anyway, it's all pretty much set for a slump just now, so all those houses for sale will either be withdrawn, or reduced when they suddenly realise the market will contract even more, you've just got to find those houses that are suitable and with sellers who actually want to sell in a good timescale.

Are the properties you looking at selling? 

@ampthill. Some not, others?? You never know what they finally go for. To be honest, we haven't seen anything that strikes a chord yet, not at what we're prepared to pay anyway. Worryingly, we are looking at renting and looking around.

When did you buy your last house.

It's been nuts for 25 years.

As my solicitor put it. Your not buying the house your buying the (size of)land and it's location. The quality of the house there after is insignificant unless your going big - at which point the potential market becomes small and you need to price right to the.quality

If your in the 3-4 bed semi market it'll be the right house for someone.

Worryingly, we are looking at renting and looking around.

I’d only be doing that if you got a cracking, too good to turn down, offer for yours - which it sounds like you didn’t.

Renting will eat £1000s that could be put to better use.

Where I am expectations are way above what the real market is. People are still expecting to sell for last years prices. I think the local prices have dropped 10-20% from the all time high + local boom last year when I bought. I am really not bothered though as paid cash and to me its just a home. However can imagine sellers with a mortgage will take a while to accept the reality of lower prices. Think it will really start to show next spring. Market has been over inflated for years.

I'm guessing you've been away from the housing market for quite a while?

Jeez, there’s some absolute crap out there for mad asking prices

This is the totally normal state of affairs and has been for decades.

So why is that house 15k more than the same house type sold 3 months ago?" "Well, it’s got a bigger garden!”

Totally normal.

stuff dropping to bits or bodged up is up for crazy asking prices.

Normal.

The only thing that currently looks different is that's theres far fewer houses listed as everyone is mostly sitting tight, which is what I would advise you to do.

I absolutely would not consider paying rent anywhere and burning my money when you could get stuck there. Even a relatively quick sale takes months to complete and you're disgusted by what's on offer so you could be renting for years.

Folk are still thinking the prices are at last year's - no they aren't. OP, if you've got cash in bank, no mortgage etc, is renting that bad for a while ?

The only market that seems more mental than the house buyers market is the. Rental market .

The flat I rented when. I first came to the big smoke 15 year ago I saw up for rent recently. It was up for nearly 20% more than I paid..... 700quid for a damp 1 bed flat in a shit bit of town

However can imagine sellers with a mortgage will take a while to accept the reality of lower prices.

This, and people pushed into higher interest rates will start to get desperate enough to have to sell unfortunately for them.

Theresa's a report out today from someone (Nationwide?) that said they didn't expect house prices to stabalise until late 2025, and will slowly fall until then.

Renting is fine if you’ve got £500k in savings earning 6% and in a falling market.

Gotta sell for as much as you can get. Just like selling anything, if you're not in a rush, list it for a silly amount and see what offers come in.

You never know what they finally go for.

The value of every property sale is listed online. I just don’t know how long it takes the information to filter through

https://www.zoopla.co.uk/house-prices/

Agreed that the market is all over the place at present.

And sellers or buyers expectations have been crazy for years. It seems that the endless property programmes on TV have taught people they're entitled to either huge 'profit' or a huge bargain. And even worse, they're often the same people in the chain...

The value of every property sale is listed online. I just don’t know how long it takes the information to filter through

About 3 months normally for land registry data to become public.

@Daffy. That's about where we'll be at. Not a disaster yet, but disappointed at what's up for sale. We're coming from a rural monster in 4 acres,  not everyone's cup of tea but we got our asking price from a cash buyer; who doesn't appear to be in a rush. They've had all the expensive surveys done; building, septic/drainage field/bats etc so they are genuine. Lucky to get them, and the time is right for us. I don't want the place to start needing stuff done which I no longer have the will to do. Been here 22yrs now, I "carved it out of the wilderness", it's some bugger else's turn now. Me and my wife have things we want to do now, while we're still healthy and fit.

This is the totally normal state of affairs and has been for decades.

alot of people have massive mortgages and can't afford to take less than they are asking.  or they sit tight.

if you think it's worth less, make an offer.

renting is escalating at an even worse pace.  renting is more expensive than mortgage repayments on the same size property where I am

I’d buy a motorhome and go tour Europe for a couple of yrs and put the cash somewhere it’ll earn some interest. 

Same here DT78. Unless you go really rural around here (North Cumbria/Borders). Carlisle rents are bonkers.

@burko73

My choice also👍. Sadly...not shared.

Lots of houses not selling round here. Quite a few were bought then extended/refurbished as if people were trying to flip them, and now seem to have got stuck as prices drop.

Also a couple of people put posh 2 bedroom sheds in their garden that they seem to think someone will buy for £225k. No chance.

But a couple of the 1970s 3 beds came up recently at £210-220k and went almost straight away. Might have needed a bit of work but clearly priced right.

About 3 months normally for land registry data to become public.

Similar in Scotland for a standard Dealing (of the Whole). Can be longer for more complicated sales.

prices aren't dropping very quickly. if a house sold 3 months ago for £200k, it might have dropped ~£4k since then. A bigger garden could be worth an extra £10k, so £20k extra asking price and expecting £10k haggling seems sensible

I do have to wonder what people really expected, especially those retirees/near retirees who've been riding house price rises for what 20-40 odd years(?) better yet those scoring cheap old council housing stock as a second/third/fourth property to turn into a private rental bonus/nest eggs. If you've developed 'expectations' so will everyone else involved in the market...

There's a definite generational gap emerging people in their 20s and 30s mostly can't afford to clamber onto the first ring of an exorbitant housing ladder without being part of a higher earning double income couple and/or getting significant assistance from their relatives (who probably benefitted from the buy low, sell high housing market of the last few decades themselves) all well and good for the middle-classes (of which I'm one) but not everyone has the same luck, family or an earning partner to lean on. Meaning the quality of life and access to decent, affordable housing for a large chunk of people has, and will continue to backslide...

Not enough home building for the last 30+ years, coupled with house ownership becoming seen as a "guarantee of ROI" rather than an investment in security and a home have led us here. There's plenty of blame to spread about, collectively the UK has slipped into a dysfunctional housing system that mostly serves to channel money to the already wealthy either through disproportionate equity and/or rents.

A rebalancing of things is long overdue, recent interest rates have just exacerbated the inequalities of the housing/rental markets and I can't see either big party getting a grip on it inside of the next decade. Planning reforms should have an impact, but that's going to take ages to translate into supply actually starting to match demand, all the while pensions and investment funds, retirees and anyone with a second property expects a steady increase in their property values and rents to cover mortgage payments (plus costs). Something has to give.

Still a lot of unravelling to come as fixed rate deals start to come to an end. Spoke to someone today who said “we’re going to have to downsize when our deal ends.” This is early next year and I suspect many more throughout the country are putting feelers out now.

cookeaa - you're right in saying that a rebalancing is long overdue.
It won't happen.
If there's a market crash, those with money will pile in so a subsequent recovery will benefit those who least deserve it.
Political parties make lots of noise but will not take any action to lead a rebalancing of the market as downside in the form of possibly losing their seats is too much of a risk for them.
Planning reforms won't do much if/when they are implemented.
Starmer's rhetoric about house building will come to (almost) nothing.
You say...something has to give; I agree but what?

I’m seeing a lot of significant price reductions round here. 340k down to 300.

While rich entitled middle classes demand the right to inherit their parents houses tax free, the wealth concentration and inequality is only going to go one way.

While rich entitled middle classes

STWers then 🙂

@Brian, you sound like you are in my neck of the woods. We are in Brampton, a few houses that 2-3 years ago would have flown out have been sat on the market for a while. Prices are still high in Scotby-Wetheral, but not moving as quick as they were.

rental - yup Carlisle rental is nuts, but this is due to a lack of rental property so driving the market up.

Have you looked out west, Wigton/Dalston or even Cockermouth?  New builds going up in Thursby too.

Rents have gone ballistic, so little supply.  Even if sales prices fall further they are still ahead of pre covid levels.

Can't really see any change  in the increasing rents, decreasing house prices for a few years.

I wouldn't put too much faith in a continued steady fall in prices. If you look at the graphs the recent fall is just a correction of a recent higher rise. The trend is still upwards.

Starmer’s rhetoric about house building will come to (almost) nothing.

Have to admit,  im not yet tuned back into UK politics (until theres a piece of paper I can vote on a few months away)
I was curious as to Labours position on Social Housing, which for me is critical in providing genuinely affordable housing.
I got this

On affordable and social housing, Starmer said a Labour government would “work with local authorities who are the drivers of social housing” and ensure they had sufficient powers to guarantee developers deliver the promised numbers of social rent and affordable homes in what they built.

Also

There would be no wholesale building on the green belt, she said. “We’re not talking about turning the beautiful countryside into housing developments. What we’re talking about is a common sense approach where local authorities and local people can go ahead with development on areas that are ripe for development, while still protecting our natural environment.”

From recent experience DO NOT break chain and go to temporary rental. We lost about 10k over the 6 months we did that for.  If going to storage you get charged to move twice, nothing you take to the rental will be what you need, it’s a right hassle. Looking back now I’d rather have lost the sale than agree to break chain.

Disagree with you Fiat... We did it when we moved and it worked perfectly. We ended up getting another tennant in the rental instead of us, so no extra fees and the house move completed easier because we'd moved out.

Who is setting the prices - presumably the estate agents still have a lot of sway in telling their customers what they should sell for and the higher the price the better their commission.
How many sellers will argue with their estate agent and insist they sell it at a lower price than they are telling them it should be listed for?

So my village has had a lot of expansion this past year, 3 big estates are being completed.
Some of the prices are just nuts (for the new builds and old pit houses).
When me and the ex split 2020 I bought a pit house semi for 130k I think it's now valued at close to 150.
But less than half a mile down the road the same house was put up for sale at 300k! Because it was in the posh side of the village.
Naturally it didn't sell went off the market and has come back on at 280k.
Nothing is selling now though, earlier in the year houses were up 1 months tops.

My nephew is a brickie on a development in Sussex.
Brickies are being laid off. Trouble ahead ,me thinks.

Trying to sell a probate property since early June, it's the cheapest 3 bed detached in the area and has had plenty of viewings & an acceptable offer (but buyers still haven't sold theirs), price now dropped below their offer price, got a viewing this morning 🤞 will decide after weekend if I should drop price by even more. Market is just very stagnant because of everyone expecting prices to drop - but in my experience prices only drop when people are forced to sell, otherwise people just hang on to their houses.

I absolutely would not consider paying rent anywhere and burning my money when you could get stuck there.

Renting isn't "burning my money" if you've mortgage interest to pay, it's only the difference that's extra.

We sold/bought a few houses in the past and rented in-between - although the rental market was more 'casual' then, without all the fees that turned up with the BTL amateur landlords.

There was a report on the radio yesterday that said a 1/3 of sales were to cash-buyers, this will maintain prices as these folk can buy on 'want' rather than 'need'.

Very similar to Dickyboy, house mow empty with dad dead and mother in care so a do’er upper with no chain but all stagnant.

We have no deadly urgency to sell but I could do without the hassle of an empty house and have reduced it by £50k so far. It’s the only house for sale on what’s supposed to be a desirable road but everything is a bit meh on the buying front apparently.

May look towards renting it if nothing happens soon.

I’d buy a motorhome and go tour Europe for a couple of yrs and put the cash somewhere it’ll earn some interest. 

Back in 2007 with three young children but also three mortgages on home, BTL and renovation property, I joked with mrs_oab about selling up and traveling as a family for a year. We spent a few seconds seriously considering it, and then laughed at the idea.

Oh how we laughed a year or so later as we moved to Scotland and took a 'loss' of £120k+ of house equity to buy up north...

Talking of brickies, local brickworks is mothballing due to low demand. (Forterra near lancaster).

@kilo

May look towards renting it if nothing happens soon.

Wish I could rent this one it's ideal, but charities are 60% of beneficiaries so needs to be sold.

Whenever there’s a price drop most people sit tight and a few (who simply cannot) take a bath, that’s the way things are and it’s why a house price drop is so catastrophic for the economy. People can’t move for jobs, other life changes…another reason why we need a viable rental market but decades of Tory and Tory-lite and here we are.

I'm seeing the same out in Berkshire in a village that generally has good demand.  Properties on for last year's prices just sit with no interest and eventually get pulled.  They're generally affluent people that can afford to "sit it out".

I feel sorry for those that were almost bullied onto the market in the last few years that will be forced to sell come what may when their mortgage deal comes to an end.  I feel next year this sort of thing will really kick in hopefully causing a bit of a price correction but yes, I'm in no doubt that it will benefit those-that-have more than anyone it needs to

No sign of anything slowing down round my way in Glasgow.
Mate sold his flat yesterday. 1st viewer, immediate offer which he accepted. Sold for 37% more than he paid 3 years ago. 5% over the home report value. Obviously the sale has to be concluded but not the sign of a slow market.

No sign of anything slowing down round my way in Glasgow.
Mate sold his flat yesterday. 1st viewer, immediate offer which he accepted. Sold for 37% more than he paid 3 years ago. 5% over the home report value. Obviously the sale has to be concluded but not the sign of a slow market.

I concur having bought in Glasgow at the end of the summer.

Supply and demand I guess, and a bit of 'how fast do you want to sell?'<br /><br />2009 we wanted to sell fast so we priced 'what would allow us to move on fast?'  It did the trick and we sold within a couple weeks. 

Buying was a different matter.  There just was nothing on the market in the area we were looking.  They were all big family houses in a very well regarded area.  2008/2009 downturn happened and all the people looking to downsize and move somewhere cheaper etc saw all the value (they thought their property had) disappear, so everyone hung fire and waited.  The only properties coming up were probates and divorce (which is what happend with our house that we bought).

When the market drops there will be less available, so in some way keeps the prices up

It's also winter.. Sales are slower this time of year.

This seems to be localised - I stay in a nice town in the Scottish Borders and houses get snapped up here.  Two in my street recently the signs were up less than a week before the "under offer" sticker appeared.  A friend bought recently and had to move fast and pay over the asking price.

Nothing much seems to be selling in Skipton, at least around us (3/4 bed semi's + detached). Market was buoyant up until the significant interest rate rises kicked in but been flat since. House across the road was listed for a sensible price in the early summer but has yet to sell, even after a 70k price drop. lovely property, plenty of room and lot's of improvements carried out so if that can't find a buyer, there's not many buyers about!

When the market drops there will be less available, so in some way keeps the prices up

Could probably look at it the peaks are the "real" prices with high volumes of transactions meaning the market is functioning, and the troughs are actually just very low volumes. So as the OP is finding, most houses on the market will be distressed sales sat on the market for ages.

The only change round here is the sale signs go up and hang around for 6-8 weeks whereas normally the guy barely gets chance to put his van in reverse before the sold sticker gets stuck over them. And there's still a scheme going forward for 4500 new houses in a single development too, plus lots of smaller ones, so someone's betting on demand remaining.

Oh, and last time I looked a new estate built at the wrong end of town but still priced optimistically had a good 50% of finished houses unsold. Usual big developer cereal box houses.

Another new estate near us, built by a local firm with a good reputation seems to be shifting every finished property.

Scotland House Price Index data for August
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/uk-house-price-index-for-august-2023/uk-house-price-index-scotland-august-2023

As suspected there is variability across the board with East Lothian (quel surprise!) topping the charts.

It's quality driven, the above post 're local brickworks  mothballed, next village to that a small development of detached houses have sold at massive premiums to local market.  They are v nice but at 1mn I d expect them to be,

OP back. After kicking the can down the road for the last few years we made the decision to go for it and sell. The initial estate agents valuation was eye-popping  so we went for what they said was achievable. 6 weeks and only two viewings later we decided it wasn't happening. We reduced the price by 10% and got 5 viewings and a sale within a month. To make it easier (and less stressful for us) we decided we'd rent temporarily to make it "No onward chain". This seems to have paid off. Obviously we're still looking around to  buy, but it's not a screaming priority. We might even sod off abroad for 3 months yet. After being rural for 21yrs, my wife quite fancies being within walking distance of Carlisle, or at least on a bus route. I'm conceding to her priorities this time. But honestly; asking prices are mad. We'll have to stop being "polite" and start submitting offers that are realistic to us. Whether sellers "get real" or not is another matter.

This seems to be localised – I stay in a nice town in the Scottish Borders and houses get snapped up here.

Is it commutable to Edinburgh? A large part of the stagnation near me is the covid move to the country unravelling. I think cities are holding up better.

Oh, and last time I looked a new estate built at the wrong end of town but still priced optimistically had a good 50% of finished houses unsold. Usual big developer cereal box houses.

Which one's that? The one they are currently building on a cliff on the Ilkley end of town?

@brian2.  I don't blame you, my house/garden is bigger than I want (and nowhere near the size of yours).  I have 20yrs on you and even still I have dread walking the 50yards to my office as there is always something new to add to the maintenance list.  Only regret the decisions you don't make - life's too short to make decisions on money alone.

Which one’s that? The one they are currently building on a cliff on the Ilkley end of town?

They must have started running out of flood plains to build on  hey! 🙂

Yes commuting distance of Edinburgh with no pesky bridges or anything, and a bus goes up the road to all the private schools each day - it is almost a satellite suburb.  That may explain it!

@ Brian2 https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/86292057?utm_campaign=property-details&utm_content=buying&utm_medium=sharing&utm_source=copytoclipboard#/&channel=RES_BUY

That's nice monkeysfeet  but no buttons pressed. I reckon 100k of that is Wetheral tax, and I'll bet it still needs updating. Too much anyway, we'd like to help the kids out and splurge a bit 🙄

That one has been on the market for ages, over 12 months now. When we were looking around Carlisle, one of the big problems is avoiding the flood areas.

You'd see something and think "Why is that so cheap...?" and then you'd realise its near/on a flood area.

👍😬 We had to "host" our eldest son, wife and grand daughter for 6 months when their place was flooded on Corporation Road. They were evacuated from the first floor bedroom into a RIB. Made Sky News they did! Yeah, there's that to bear in mind.

Offer what you think the places are actually worth, and tell the EA that.

They will want to sell the places just as much as you wanna buy one.

Are these overpriced gaffs in your area actually selling though, or not?

It really doesn’t matter if rent prices are bonkers so long as the bank and it’s interest rate are paying the rent.  In a declining market, you’re still quids in.  Your asset would have made a loss, your outgoings are less than your (interest) income.  You just need to make sure you buy something (anything?) before the market starts to climb again. 

Properties on for last year’s prices just sit with no interest and eventually get pulled. They’re generally affluent people that can afford to “sit it out”.

Agreed - a couple of houses near me have been pulled after not selling quickly. Another has dropped their price by about 8% (after a sale fell through and it went back on the market) and it isn't attracting any interest at all. (Harrogate). Yet they are still building bloody everywhere and more applications keep going in for 200+ house schemes.

That Scottish data, the key one for me is that the sale prices have risen by 43% in 8 years, which is actually under  the compounded UK inflation rise of 56%.

I don't though see this around us, but we are in a low-volume rural area.

Obviously house purchase price & monthly mortgage cost are two different numbers.

Talking of brickies, local brickworks is mothballing due to low demand. (Forterra near lancaster).

In a housing crisis 🤦‍♂️

House over the back from us has just gone on the market, quite happy to see them going to be honest, not sure they'll be getting the asking price given they put "motivated sellers" in the listing!

I can't remember anything selling on this estate recently although there's a number of houses for sale and all the local developments have ground to a halt to the point one has a street of unfinished houses on it.

In a housing crisis 🤦‍♂️

Developers always say it's planning and regs that hold them back but any sniff of a downturn in prices and they turn the taps off the supply of housing, it's all about maximising profits.

Watched this the other day, had forgotten the Tories had tried to give housing association tennants the right to buy - could that be classed as a Brexit benefit 🤔

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/m001rkn5/britains-housing-crisis-what-went-wrong

@matt303k There was a thing in the Guardian saying that the big house builders have a near monopoly - gone from building 50% of new houses a couple of decades ago to 90% now.

And because they’ve a near monopoly, the quality is often crap.

Any party that can fix the housing crisis is likely to win a lot of elections…

high prices pretty much suit everyone except those not on the market already or moving from a cheap area / significant upsize

more estate agent fees, more stamp duty, better margins for new builds etc... not in anyones interest to let them drop like a stone.

I also don't get why whacking up rent to cover increased costs is absolutely fine, yet asking for a payrise to try and cover your increased mortgage costs is considered bad and inflationary by the government....

@monkeysfeet - a fellow Bramptonian!

Regarding the house in Wetheral. that is definitely the Wetheral tax.  It would be £100,000 or more less here.