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Evening all,
Halfway through buying a house. At some point in the distant past it's had a fairly cowboy rear "extension". Inverted commas because it's a single skin brick built utility room and storage shed, single storey, tagged on to the back of the property.
Main issue is that the original foul & surface water down pipes have been left in their original position; both now penetrate through the sloped felted rebar concrete roof of the extension.
The foul water pipe (which is likely coated in asbestos, 1950s build) has been boxed in and is not visible/accessible internally. This is an issue for visual inspection/preventative maintenance - we won't know if there's a problem/leak until it's a stonking great big problem/leak.
The surface/grey water pipe is partially boxed in (top half within extension), but terminates in an open drainage gully (presumably original) at ground level. This would originally have been external, but is now within the utility room.
No evidence of planning permission for the extension, and no build over agreement from the water board.
Looks like there's two ways of approaching this: ask seller to seek retrospective build over & planning permissions, or ask them to foot the bill for an indemnity insurance policy to cover us.
Option 3 would be to drop out, but we've invested a fair chunk so far so I'm not keen on this idea unless it's unavoidable.
I'm not mad keen on the idea of an indoor drainage gully - could get nasty if it blocks and floods. Any ideas how easy/£££ it'd be to move the gully and reroute both downpipes?
Oh, where would I find details of what constitutes "permitted development"? Just incase that covers the build, but I strongly doubt it.
No evidence of building regs certs either.
Id walk away.
We looked a house, incurred survey & legal fees then found out waste water had overflowed the garden 3 times previously.
The seller wasn’t prepared to pay for investigation/ repair so we walked.
A few years later got to know people that lived nearby and the eventual buyers had the waste issue at least twice since they bought it.
If it's been there at least 4 years, with no attempt to hide it, and no objections, you can apply for deemed planning permission. Building Regs is a different matter, and you may need to fix things - but they'll mostly be things you'd want to fix, you just have to budget for it.
Is it just the connections to your downpipes that run under the extension, or shared sewers? I'm not sure if there's anything to say your own pipes can't, but as you say, you want to reroute them anyway. The question will be whether there's enough depth to get the necessary fall if you extend the run. It's impossible to even estimate a cost without knowing a lot more (and I'm not the person to do it).
How old is distant past? It might not of needed planning?
If the house is right and the price is, just go for it.
Are you planning to knock down the shit extension and put something decent up? If so, that should be priced in already, but yes, indemnity insurance is the standard way to go if there is the suspicion of paperwork corner cutting.
But a distant past extension shouldn't really cause you bother in planning terms.
Build over agreement wouldn’t be needed if it’s a private sewer, however the setup you’ve explained doesn’t sound great to be honest so I’d want to change it.
PM me the details of the house and I can look into it for you.
Thanks all. Think it's a public/shared drain, as the house is mid terrace. However the water search came back showing the public drains as being off the property, so perhaps there's a (slim) chance that my drains just extend straight back to that without joining to next door's. Dunno!
No plans to knock it down and rebuild - this is complicated by the fact that it was built along with an identical adjoined version on the neighbour's plot, so knocking down our half would likely have consequences for them too.
Good to know re 4 years and planning. Looks like it's at least 20+years old.
Sounds more like the standard store building that any terrace house not so much an extension, especially as you say it has the same build on the next doors. Someone may have knocked though into the shed to extend the living space but that's less an issue that the original building was built badly but more incorrect alterations / use of building.
Definitely a later extension - only 2 of the 4 terraced houses in the row have it, and it's been pasted onto the back of the house so that it's beyond the original external back door and kitchen window. No knock through.
In terms of moving forward with a purchase, it would make me wonder what else had been bodged during the build. Have you had its electrics inspected?
I would still get indemnity insurance though, it's dirt cheap relative to the overall investment you're making.
Have you spoken to the neighbour with the identical build - they may know a bit more about how the drains are arranged?
The electrics generally need a lookover - have booked an electrician to have a gander. Original fusebox is still there, but there's also a consumer unit with MCBs (no RCD though) so it's not clear what's what. Could be as simple as a new consumer unit, or as bad as a full house rewire if the cabling is no good.
Other than those two things, the house is great! 🤣
In terms of moving forward with a purchase, it would make me wonder what else had been bodged during the build.
I'd really consider running away from this, if that's bodged what else will be bodged through out the house....
I’d really consider running away from this, if that’s bodged what else will be bodged through out the house….
...sounds to me like it's a doer-upper so these sorts of hidden issues are to be expected and budgeted for. The purchase price should reflect this though.
Too many people expect houses to be perfect. We're on the market at the minute and I'm getting really peeved off with people viewing expecting a 120yr old house to be issue free.
Meh
just price it as if it didn't have the "extension".
Have the sellers pay for an indemnity, theres no chance of anyone calling it out anyway and theres zero chance it meets any building regs since their introduction.
Either rebuild it properly moving the gulley, or see it as a bonus bike shed.
On an old terraced house, expect just about everything to be bodged.
doesnt sound too bad. you can create an access on teh boxing in for access to teh downpipes really easily. the downpipes will be your responsibility as property owner - they wont be the water companies.
If its 20+ years old any 'issues' with teh drainage would be apparent by now. and if teh 'extension' its that old i dont think it 'needs' planning permission - it just is now. Anything still standing after 10 years doesnt need a specific Building regulations approval.
get the sellers to do an indemnity policy if you are worried about it.
the electrics wont be up to modern standards (as it wasnt built yesterday) so there is little point in getting them reviewed. get the fuse box updated when you move in so you are safe and worry about it later if it all works.
It still does sound like an extension on more an attached shed.
wzzzz and VanHalen - that's what I want to hear!
Original fusebox is still there
My parent's house still has a bakerlite fuse box with wire fuses where you wrap the fuse wire by hand between the two terminals!
I'd be going Option 3, with the proviso that IF they can get planning permission, building warrants, and build over permission - or written confirmation that these are not required before you find something else you'll happily come back to the table.
Good luck with that Poly - too much hassle for seller - they'd just revoke the offer and stick it back on the market.
That depends how much other interest the seller has though.
I sold a 100+ year old house a few years ago, and had 4 offers within 48 hours. One of the offers was conditional on a snag list. Immediate rejection. The buyer we went with was also very close to us pulling the plug at one point due to a litany of nonsense/indemnity spam.
fwiw i have an unavoidable hidden gully between a shed and an existing extension.
In order to create the further extension we wanted - i had to create a downpipe that runs inside the wall for a section before going outside - made sure the whole lot was solvent welded - the same way your bath drainage would be (and you dont get a huff about that generally) and if we do have grief from it years on - ill cut an access hatch where it is.
its given no grief to date.
the open gully - thats weird/lazy - theres no reason to not have closed that in / buried it in the foundations/ gone straight to end drain in the ground - we had to do that too.
On an old terraced house, expect just about everything to be bodged.
This x 10
Some people think that old houses were built better than today - they really weren't. I bought a semi to do up and found some shocking stuff (undersized joists, unsupported walls, etc.)
OP's case sounds OK - I'd def not worry about planning because it doesn't need it after this length of time.
I'd certainly consider rebuilding it properly at some time if funds allow - shouldn't necessarily affect the neighbour.
My parent’s house still has a bakerlite fuse box with wire fuses where you wrap the fuse wire by hand between the two terminals!
If you love them then get that fuse box replaced asap.
I’d be going Option 3, with the proviso that IF they can get planning permission, building warrants, and build over permission – or written confirmation that these are not required before you find something else you’ll happily come back to the table.
never going to happen
I'm really curious about this open indoor gulley thing. I must be misunderstanding, because it sounds like a stream through your utility room 😀 ?
My parent’s house still has a bakerlite fuse box with wire fuses where you wrap the fuse wire by hand between the two terminals!
If you love them then get that fuse box replaced asap.
The odds of them dying from a electric shock and so small as to be negligable. Multiple orders of magnitude more likely to die from flu, Covid, pneumonia etc. They're happy with it (my Dad was an electronic hobbyist, spent his youth building TVs out of valves scavenged from WW2 tanks), so fully understand the actual risk (which is FA).
I would either sort any idemnity yourself, walk away or live with it. If I was the vendor I would be saying "this is what you are paying for".
Bit like selling a bike with a scratch advertised and then the buyer trying to knock you down because of it, Nope, thats in the price.
Depends how desperate they are.
The odds of them dying from a electric shock and so small as to be negligable. Multiple orders of magnitude more likely to die from flu, Covid, pneumonia etc. They’re happy with it (my Dad was an electronic hobbyist, spent his youth building TVs out of valves scavenged from WW2 tanks), so fully understand the actual risk (which is FA).
If it really is a bakelite fuse box then likely the house wiring is rubber insulated.
I've stripped enough rubber insulated wiring to know it degrades out of sight.
MCBs and RCDs aren't just for fun you know.
I would either sort any idemnity yourself, walk away or live with it. If I was the vendor I would be saying “this is what you are paying for”.
The indemnity will be about £15 for the vendor.
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That's impressive.
Looks like a. Good way for mice and rats to get in.....
Don't see how mice/rats could access - bricked from ground level up, and the gully has a grate on the trap.
It is, however, shoddy workmanship to say the least!
It's a bonus urinal, save you going upstairs when working in the garden. +£10k