House EPC Ratings - do they decline over time?

Alternatively, the standards have been tightened so yesterday's C becomes today's D.

Doesn’t really matter as they can be fudged anyway. Especially by dodgy landlords. I’ve got secondary glazing throughout my house, apparently. News to me.

Was this by an onsite survey or was it as I recently had your mortgage company making an estimate by email...... Even a drive by on Google maps would have revealed the improvements we have made.....it's barely the same house.

pretty random and meaningless IMO.

Doesn’t really matter as they can be fudged anyway.

Potentially could matter in the future... In Scotland there are systems in play where you'll need to be C or better on both ratings by 2033 to sell or rent out your house....."where technically and legally feasible and cost-effective" - which is a phrase with no current definition.

https://www.gov.scot/policies/energy-efficiency/energy-efficiency-in-homes/

The house I live in is a bit of a drafty shed and is currently an F - much work to do. Our holiday let in the garden is pretty mint (150mm insulation in the walls, a veritable duvet of insulation in the loft, double glazed up the ying yang, everything low energy and wet underfloor heating). But it's only a D on efficiency because we are in the sticks and it's on LPG. Apparently LPG knocks a huge number of points off because it's expensive stuff to buy (or rather it was - currently about the same as town gas) and despite the house being actually efficient, you're bolloxed. If the property was on town gas it would be an A. Apparently if we were on heating oil we'd squeak into a C even though it's more environmentally harmful than LPG. It's nuts. We'll need to carpet it in solar panel and/or go for air or ground source pumped system to get it down to a C. That's going to be a big old bill. Not a scooby how we'll afford to get our actual house up to a C standard.

I was shocked at how unscientific the evaluation was when our rental was looked at in the last couple of years. Tick box exercise without measuring effectiveness of things.

Only done because it became law to have EPC quite recently, in England rating needs to be better than E iirc for a rental property.

The standards havent changed so it'll just be a difference in opinion or assumptions by the 2 certifiers

Both my flats have lath and plaster "walls" as its an attic.  No one being paid so little for and EPC is going to crawl around the eaves to see all the insulation I have fitted and all the draft proofing.

I don't know wht rating the flats would get but there is no way of improving them legally - being listed buildings

I don’t know wht rating the flats would get but there is no way of improving them legally – being listed buildings

Which part of a listed building prevents internal drylining with kingspan ?

the listing?  Its got 4 - 6 inches of insulation behind the lath and plaster that I have fitted and on the flat roof as well. ( which I think you missed)  Its fully double glazed as well

to do that would be losing all the original skirting and cornices, corner beads architraves etc.  You could probably get permission or just do it and ignore the listing but it would be vandalism

And you ahve just highlighted the issue with listed buildings.

Either they want progress or they don't.

Burying head in the sand and preventing modernisation of housing stock is part of the problem

As above - you have missed I have already fitted 4" of insulation behind the lath and plaster and full DG throughout.

So why do they need improved then before you get them EPC then......

But then more so I had 100mm of insulation behind my attic walls and it was completely pointless as the drafts could get round it and thermal bridging through the wall structure .

I improved it massively with superquilt. Reducing thermal bridging and draft penetration.

A quick look with a thermal imaging camera before Nd after highlighted the effectiveness of it.

So why do they need improved then before you get them EPC then……

Thats not what I said - I said no one doing a EPC survey is going to see it so it won'rt be reflected in the rating unless they take my word for it - showing the uselessness of the EPC.  No way of further improvements.  Sorry if it wasn't clear

Id be interested to see what a thermal imaging made of it.  its all sealed as much as I dared / was able to do

You can show them photos e.g. when selling I showed photos of the under floor insulation (but did offer to lift a panel if they wanted to see for themselves).

It is a tick box thing, but I did have a good chat with the guy doing ours - I'm sure it is pretty obvious which people were keen and actively involved in improving their houses.

I'd not seen this before. Seems nonsense m

While not impossible, I think Scottish government are deluded to think it's going to be anywhere close to "technically feasible or cost effective" to make major changes to the period property that makes up a large proportion of urban housing stock in Scottish cities. Some of the costs I've been quoted for work are eye watering (as in, payback periods of 25 years +) and the vast majority of firms have no understanding of the complexities of making improvements to properties designed to breathe, not keep air in. Of course if they put it through, cowboys will come along and do it all on the cheap, and we'll be left with houses riddled with damp issues due to inappropriate work.

Sadly I've given up on any hope of doing major changes on ours. Secondary glazing is in, boiler will get replaced in the summer, but any ideas I had about insulating roofs or walls are long gone, it just makes zero sense financially or technically. I'd expect ours is not an unusual case for much of city centre Edinburgh.

My last flat was a C, my house is also a C. The house is bloody freezing. Totally meaningless measure.

I like the part in the consultation that suggests a cost cap of bringing things up to standard, "like the £5k cap in the rented sector". In which case I look forward to paying £5k and sending Scottish government the £75k+ bill for the remainder.

quite - the 5 sash and case windows in my flat would cost over £10000 to replace with DG - I know I have done it

quite – the 5 sash and case windows in my flat would cost over £10000 to replace with DG – I know I have done it

My EPC says I could do 16 sash and case double glazed windows in a conservation area for £3,300-£6,500!

Ppfftpt!

A 4 pane wooden sash and case supply and fit with slimline DG cost me £2000  a few years ago.  Proper replica of the original.  You would be pushing it just to get the DG units for that as they all have to be custom made and not many folk do the slimline ones you need.  Maybe slightly less strict rules if the building is not listed

If the casement is OK it would just be new sashes needed but they need extra weights as well

Edit - the £2000 was for the full thing - sashes and case

Yeah £2-3.5k is the ballpark figure given for most places in town that do heritage sash and case, doesn't even take a formal survey to find that out so goes back to how nonsense the EPCs are if they think we can do a whole house for the price a single window could be in reality.

May have been re-rated if the surveyor has been audited, they sometimes look at the calcs and disagree with entries the surveyor makes.

I was shocked at how unscientific the evaluation was when our rental was looked at in the last couple of years. Tick box exercise without measuring effectiveness of things.

It would cost £1000s to measure the U value of all the walls, windows, floors, roof panels etc

Only ever going to be a paper exercise.

Burying head in the sand and preventing modernisation of housing stock is part of the problem

We live in a Victorian terrace in a conservation area.

We could put solid wall insulation on the front of the house (with fake brick on top) and solar panels on the large roof at the front, but not allowed to as it's a conservation area. So we just piss heat through the walls instead and burn gas...