Just had a 2nd offer on a house rejected. Only been on the market a week but there is a small housing stock in the location. On the market for 320, offered 295 and then 300. Estate agent says they want 310. Relevant facts are:
- Moving because I married my wife and our flat (1 bed) is too small and causing us a lot of stress (we have too much stuff, no where to store bikes, and too noisey for the wife to sleep properly).
- The house next door went for 299 in Aug but was only on the market for a day (according to the agent) and the bloke just wanted shot due to moving back to south africa suddenly. House is pretty much identical.
- There is a house a few houses down on the other side of road that was on at 320, and sold for 307. This has a 40ft longer garden (same width) and a garage.
- The house we're interested in (sold 295 in Nov 07) is in very good nick, just had a few things done to it (including new oak flooring throughout due to having woodworm previously).
- Location is perfect for us - next to a good primary school and 3 minutes from the station.
- We've been looking for a few months and this is the first thing that has really ticked all the boxes - wife is very specific about the location as she doesn't want to move away from her friends. The only thing it's missing is the garage which we would build on the existing concrete pad (old one knocked down due to leaking roof).
I figure we need to make the next offer our final offer. Options are:
1 Tell them to get bent and wait to see if something else turns up (probably wouldn't be any cheaper as most of the other houses in the village are larger and out of our budget)
2 Offer 305 and hope for the best.
3 Offer 307 on the basis is they want 310 they'll probably take 307.
4 Offer 310 and say you have 48 hours to decide before we move on.
Me and the wife have a big enough deposit to cover 310 (just) at our mortgage rate (need a 15% deposit).
Thoughts?
Depends on how much you want the house and whether you think it is worth it, no-on else can really happy I would suggest. show us the right move link so we can see for ourselves!!
4 IMO
Relevant facts are:
Completely irrelevant - they want what they want, regardless of the other sale prices.
It comes down to how much you want it. You've already offered twice, so you've shown your hand. The vendor knows you're interested and will expect you to go up from whatever offer you put in next.
Decide a price that [b]you[/b] think it's worth. Offer that, state that it's a final offer, then see if they bite.
But if they come back with anything other than an acceptance, walk away.
Offer 310 if you really want it, else i'd go with a cheeky 307 & prepare to be knocked back.
Sounds like you really want it, how gutted would you be if someone nicks it off you?
Offer them 310 and get it off the market. In the grand scheme of your life an additional 10k ina mortgage is f-ck all in comparison to getting on with your life in your ace, and perfectly located new house.
Basically, it's worth what people are willing to pay for it.
Our house was bought for 200k, but we sold it recently for 182 because no bugger would pay 200k. we needed to get it sold so that we could move on to the next place and the loss of equity we suffered was offset by the amount we got off the asking price of the new place.
I wasn't happy about it going for less than we bought it, but that's the way things are. It is possible/likely that we would have lost the new place if we had waited for another offer nearer the asking price. With hindsight, we probably paid too much for it, and bought at the height of the market four years ago. It's all worked out though, so meh.
The unethical approach:
1. Offer 310 as a final offer on the [proviso it's then off the market.
2. Do a full survey. Find out the cost of rectifying every fault.
3. Chip the price by that much.
Or just gazunder them immediately prior to exchange.
Me, I'm not unethical, so just sayin' like....
We would be pretty gutted, and i'm quite surprised it's available for the price it is in the location it is. I don't think it'll be on the market for long.
The only thing playing on my mind is that should the market go tits up we may be shafted and would be paying a premiumn of 15k over what they paid in Nov 2007 (i.e the height of the market). The mitigation against that I guess, is that it's in a popular location, there aren't many houses in the village full stop, it's 3 minutes walk from a main line to london (35 minutes), and next to a very good primary school; I assume that means it won't go down too much.
We'd be planning to stay for 10 years min I should think (basically we want to pop a couple of sprogs!).
Ourmaninthenorth - good plan.... I wouldn't have a problem with that 😈 but I suspect the wife wouldn't let me!
BTW - Anyone know what the actual advantage of a full survey over a homebuyers survey is? Apart from 500 (?) quid? The house is turn of the century and it's previous history of wood worm makes me think we should get a full one.
I hope you know their situation with regards to when they need to move out from your viewing.
Depending on the timing of your offers and when you need to move, I'd be tempted to do nothing for now. If you know that yours is the highest offer on the table, then let them come back to you. They know of your interest, let them understand that 300k was your top offer by not continuing to call them.
Estate agent's are keen to create bidding wars for their client, they should have mentioned any other offers already. If you're the only bidder so far, they could be just waiting to see if you give them another 7k free money.
Loum - a high stakes game! Nothing resonably priced seems to come up very often in the location or stay on the market for long.
Their position is that they're trying to buy another property but will move into rented whatever happens (the other property needs renovating). We're chain free and ready to go.
Just get it off the market with a 310 bid will you??!!! 🙂
Full survey vs Homebuyers is like looking under a car and lifting the bonnet vs just kicking the tyres.
I will soon be in the same boat as you - our first offer will go in Friday morning.
My view is, offer something they cannot refuse (in your case 310) because you REALLY want the house. Paying a bit extra to get something you really want is not an issue.
However, Mrs Kryton doesn't agree. She think (in our case I should be making the first offer 20k short of the asking price. In my mind 20k reduction will never get accepted so its pointless - she says " theirs always a chance".
My middle ground is to convince go for a another viewing tomorrow to show her what she'll lose and see how much her hearts in getting that actual house, then I'll get my way.
if you really want it either go in at 310 and hope to chip a couple of K off after the survey, or 308 and fingers crossed.
Regardless if you get it, the conditions have to be off the market, off the website and no more viewing to reduce the chances of someone else trying to bump the price up.
Yes you do risk negative equity but decent properties will always sell, and if stuff sells in a week it should be a good one.
Offer what it is worth to you.
If it is only worth 300 to you, tell them that 300 is as far as you are going to be going, and it will be on the table until Monday. Then don't call them, and definitely don't raise your price further.
What it is 'worth to you' is only partly to do with the market rate.
Dave
Ewan, you sound like you've made your mind up that you really want it. If so, go for it. And good luck.
Don't mess about with 307, they may reject that and may even reject 310 after that if they think they can squeeze you, or someone else becomes interested. If you're gonna bid again, make sure that it is to take it off the market immediately (before the weekend viewings).
One thing to check is that your mortgage provider will back you. Be aware that if you have it surveyed and that value is significantlly lower than 310, you may have problems.
Edit: remember,do not under value the fact that you are chain free 1st time buyers with mortgage approved when it comes to negotiation. This is the easiest sale they could hope to make.
Our first two offers on the place we're in now were rejected when we made them. We left our second offer open and within two weeks the vendor came back and asked if we were still interested. So I'd leave the 300 on the table and wait and see. Stay calm, there [i]will[/i] be other houses even if this one goes.
I think if you consider what you say about your circumstances - only just enough deposit to pay 310 - then you have to consider what it's worth. It's all very well saying it might be worth more to you but the bank has to value it at the price you're paying for it for you to get the mortgage.
Is there any justification (work done/local price rises) for it being worth more than the 2007 price?
What's the inside of the place like? Everything modern and high quality? That could add a bit of value.
If it's a bit shonky I can't see why it would be worth more (to a valuer) than other similar houses.
wot they ^ said about how much you really want it
If it was me, having been buggered about by 2 sellers in the past, I'd offer what I'm willing to pay out but make it clear that my price will reduce as the delay for acceptance and/or sale drags on
Is there any justification (work done/local price rises) for it being worth more than the 2007 price?
Since 07 the following has been done:
- Fairly nice conservitory (wickes one, 3 x 4m) 2009
- New windows and doors on all but one small window 2010/11
- Floors ripped up, wood worm treated, new oak flooring laid
- Think the bathroom is new as well (looks new)
- Downstairs loo installed under the stairs
- Leaky garage knocked down and crappy shed put up in it's place (probably value neutral!)
[i]The only thing playing on my mind is that should the market go tits up we may be shafted and would be paying a premiumn of 15k over what they paid in Nov 2007[/i]
If the market does go 'tits', its only a problem when you come to sell...
I've always offered the asking price, but with a proviso that the amount to be paid is dependent on the mortgage companies' valuation, we'll reduce as necessary. This has always shown that we were serious.
And tbh whether you pay £310k or £320k it'll make bu99er all difference on the mortgage payment.
They have done loads of work, but you will have to build a garage, but a downstairs loo is a big bonus. Hmmmmm.
Is the kitchen good? They can be bloody expensive to replace.
Kitchens fine - nothing special but nothing wrong with it either.
Budgeting 5K for the garage - condition of purcahse with the wife! Assume we can use the existing pad (I know nothing of these things tho)...
In the longer term there is also room to extend, and potentially go into the loft (other simular houses have).
The only thing playing on my mind is that should the market go tits up we may be shafted and would be paying a premiumn of 15k over what they paid in Nov 2007
We were selling and buying in late 2007 / early 2008. We managed to get the price down by £40k due to their need to sell quickly, but I don't plan on passing my good fortune on to the next buyer (Although I'd now only expect back about what I paid). What I'm trying to say is perhaps they bought at a very good price for the time, don't dwell on that but rather is it a realistic price compared to others selling in the area.
where are you buying Ewan? Surrey?
I'd go for £310k and tell them to take it off the market - negotiating is fun, but with not a lot of property out there and lots of good mortgage rates attracting buyers it's a sellers market.
you can always squeeze them for washing machines and fridges and stuff along the line to make any savings.
Sounds like they have spent tens of thousands.
If it's a nice area in the SE then prices probably haven't fallen that much.
I don't think you'll be ripped off if you do pay the full asking price.
If the market does go 'tits', its only a problem when you come to sell...
Could also be a problem when you come to remortgage, with an 85% LTV. Well, not really a problem but your mortgage might cost you more. Worth considering if you're at the upper end of the budget.
presumably a tits-up market is the opposite of a double-dip recession ?
I think a tits-up situation occurs earlier in the market lifecycle, as opposed to the double dip which is common during the latter stages.
Sounds like you will be pissed off to miss out if little comes up in your area .So offer the 310 and get it off the market .If you are planning to live there long term why worry about a couple of grand extra?
We got this, offered v low, then second offer quite low, they came back and said no, then we went back and said that it was all we were willing to pay, pointed out that we had no chain and were able to move quickly, and that the offer was still on the table and they changed their mind.
Oh and for kryton - our accepted offer was 35k below the original asking price and 15k below the price they lowered it to, on a 200k house, so you never know.
Also bear in mind If the house was worth 295k in 2007, the bank will possibly value it at that kind of price, rather than what you're actually paying, which eats into your deposit a fair bit. Ie. Could you still get a mortgage for 310k if the bank value it at 300k, how much slack do you have.
Use property bee to find out how long things have been on the market, whether they have dropped prices etc, can give a good idea of how desperate to sell people are.
Sell yourselves as proceedable and offer the 310k, its a home, not an investment.
We went for the full survey when we bought our first house as it was quite old. not massively impressed, so we left it second time around. The resulting report mainly seemed to state what the surveyor didn't know! Comments like "there is no evidence of x" sound great, but then after every one they added "note that we are not specialists in x and therefore you should contract a specialist surveyor to obtain a certain result"
So basically, we think it's ok, but if you find something wrong it's not our fault as we aren't specialists!
