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One of my daughters is loving riding around in a Honda Civic type R FN2 but its starting to show its age, its an 08.
She has been looking at Peugeot 208 gti, Mini Cooper S, Corsa VXR and the Fiesta ST.
She is miles away from me, so values reliability and fun. We accept that a forced induction engine will feel different to some vtec madness.
What would the hive mind recommend?
Thanks
Ian
In the spirit of recommending what you've got (Mrs Fruitbat in this case) - Abarth Punto Evo
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/cars/used/abarth/punto-evo
Have driven Cooper S as a courtesy car on a couple of occassions - addictive licence loser potential - impossible to drive without your right foot on the floor
A newer Civic? I loved mine.
I've had 3 Cooper S' over the past 15 years and now on an Abarth 595 Competizione. The Abarth is an absolute riot. My first supercharged Cooper was a riot but subsequent cars were heavier and slower.
The Abarth is ridiculous fun. Tons of grip, tiny, sounds fantastic. The only criticism is you do sit rather high in it, but I don't care. Even at normal speeds you can throw it into corners without slowing down. On a twisty country road, it's just sublime.
I like Suzuki swift sports. Don't have one but they are supposed to be good.
As well as those listed above, the Up GTI is worth a look.
Fazzini jnr is firmly in the Fiesta ST camp. He's on his 2nd. He is 19 though and Fiesta daft 😂 I'm just jealous. My only real hot hatch, if you could call it that, was a '93 Corsa Sri. Loved that car.
Swift sport.
We have a ZC31 which is a fun little car, the newer ones look awesome.
Budget dependant really !
Out of your options I would say the Mini. Fiesta's have a habit of going missing in the night.
What about a Renaultsport Clio? You don't mention budget but I guess you be looking at the five door version with the 1.6 turbo engine.
Fiesta ST always seemed to be the best reviewed as a drivers car.
Aren't Toyotas always a safe bet? Without knowing budget, I'd suggest a Toyota GR Yaris with circuit pack.
We had a 208GTi for a couple of years, this was when they were first launched and there were some cheap lease deals about. I thought it was a decent car and fun to drive, well suited to UK roads, no issues in the 2.5 years we had it. Before that we had a Clubman Cooper S, handling on it was ruined by large alloys. It also suffered numerous mechanical issues despite only having 30k or so on the clock.
We now have a 2018 Kia Ceed GT. Owned since nearly new and it has been totally reliable and still has a few years of warranty left. Straight line speed is very similar to the Peugeot, trim level is maybe slightly better. Although overall driving experience of the Kia is slightly dull and it doesn’t have the sporty feel of the Peugeot or Mini, but still a nice car and driving experience.
Fiesta ST would be the one I would go for, My Mrs has a Puma ST which is so much fun, we sold our ageing 2005 Cooper S Jcw before buying the puma and I honestly thought we wouldn't find anything as fun with cars being so much heavier now but I was wrong, Its much more engaging drive on the public road than my M2c.
I’d suggest a Toyota GR Yaris with circuit pack.
A big leap in budget from an ‘08 Civic! 😀
OP - did you get the rear beam sorted? Without a massive jump in budget it’s all a gamble in the hot hatch world.
And there are many old type R’s knocking on for 200,000 miles.
If reliability is the #1 issue then a much newer bog standard Swift or Yaris would be better.
Mate of mine had a new 208gti, on lease.
He said it was great to drive, but it spent a lot of time in the dealer getting niggly little things sorted.
Out of the ops list I’d go fiesta, with the vxr a close second.
Been in a couple of vxrs, certainly quick enough, but I’m a ford man on this list.
The Fiesta is mint in mk7 or mk8 form. I had a mk8 for a year but bought it at a time when I didn't need a car and the Mrs got pregnant so it was sitting doing nothing.
I still pine for it.
My Mrs just looked out the window 30 mins ago and saw two lads having a go at a Fiesta ecoboost, they legged it. No idea who owns it but I had a look and the driver's door handle was damaged. Read online Fiestas are easy to nick and loads have gone astray in S Yorks. I would think an ST would be an absolute magnet.
Reliability wise, Abarths are generally bombproof apart from rear wheel bearings which tend to need replaced every 35kish. Half an hour of my time and a wheel bearing is the only cost. Mechanically they are solid. Door handles apparently can fail but are an easy replacement. Other than that, no major reported issues in my various owner groups
Since when did a five year old car become old?
OP - What's the budget?
Cooper s, Abarth 595 etc will feel rather tame compared to the Civic Type R FN 2, late model Fiesta ST almost certainly the best listed above.
If she can stretch to 5 figures then a BMW M135i could be possible but 330bhp rear wheel drive isnt always best idea for a novice!
If budget no option then clearly a 2023 Civic Type R FL5 on dealership mark up at £52k! 😀
integra
Full Member
Since when did a five year old car become old?
Since when did an 08 plate (2008) apply to 2018?
Mrs Squad has had XR2i, Peugeot 106GTI, Civic type R and now drives a chipped Fiesta ST. She loves her ST but it's a harsh ride. I just can't be bothered having to drive it round all the pot holes. She wants a Merc AMG A35 or the new Type R next. ST for the win I reckon.
Had an ‘09 Twingo 133 that I still pine for. Replaced with a Mini Cooper S, that has also just been written off too. Mini was heavy but silly fast with poor plastics. You didn’t mention budget, but I’d go for a Renaultsport Clio for something a bit different. I never had a reliability issue with the Twingo.
Lancia delta; wrote it off in 1987/88.
Wolf in sheep's clothing; car, not me.
Good point, been a long day at work. After fifteen years being a Honda it's probably rusted away.
I don't know about the fn2 but my ep3 was bombproof, I think I had it for around 11 years with no big problems and sold it nearing 200k on the clock. Rust definitely wasn't an issue.
Both the eldest and the youngest have had a number of FN2 Type R's, they're really good cars and proper hot hatches - fast, handle well and loads of space plus been a Honda, incredible reliability.
They're now grown up 🙂 and have a Mondeo (family) and BMW 3 series coupe.
I had hot hatches too when younger; Renault 5's, Citroens and finished with a 309GTI - but I grew up too and after a 405 Mi16 stayed with saloons. Now have a top-spec 320d xDrive.
Is she ready for growing up yet? If not, stay in the Honda and spend a bit of cash on it.
dc1988 Full Member
I don’t know about the fn2 but my ep3 was bombproof, I think I had it for around 11 years with no big problems and sold it nearing 200k on the clock. Rust definitely wasn’t an issue.
Agreed, my EP3 was superb. The only rust i had was from stone chips on the bonnet etc.
But now as most of them are nudging the 20 year mark they will start to suffer.
The FN2 is tame compared to the EP3, why doesn't the OP look into something like a DC5 import? or maybe an FD2 mmmmmm dont get many of them to the pound 🙂
I didnt mention the budget. She has £10k to spend. The FN2 has just had a number if niggles that she cant fix as she works miles away and has no tools or area to work. Her car has stood a while and it just seems to have problems with sensors etc....im guessing it just ironing out probs.
Thanks for the input. She is now looking at Abarths too. She is moving to Wrecsam v shortly, so maybe something less stealable than a Fiesta may be a good idea.
Thanks for your ideas
Ian
The newer CTRs are meant to be awesome, but a really jump in BHP given they're now 2.5l turbo engines.....
Is the FN2 REALLY dying,or is she just after a new car? (Which is a legit response, tbh!).
The Yaris GT thingy is meant to be AMAZE, but pricey....
If I had the time and money, I'd live to stick a k20 engine into a jazz!
DrP
How about this then? £9700, 2014 model, 320bhp, 0-60mph 5.1 secs. BMW M135i.
That BMW straight six engine is the equivalent power of 2 x Abarth engines! ;-D
Im not sure its dying. But its suoer frustrating for her to have orange dash lights that she cant resolve. We put a brand new rear axle in it and associated expense. Now it needs an abs sensor and it has an orange engine management light.
She cant fix these things and i could do it if it was here. So she has to get it somewhere to fix it when she is a strung out F1 doctor.
I guess once the lights get fixed she will waver about replacing it as its a great 3k car.
I test drove a Hyundai i20N last year; loved it! Worth trying one out??
Think the Fiesta ST will a future classic however.
Breninbeener - hope you don't mind me asking but how much did the CTR FN2 rear axle cost?
I've got an 08 plate CTR FN2 myself and whilst my indy garage for MOT has said the car is fine, my local Honda dealership did flag up the rusting rear axle beam in their car health check 12 months ago. I've left it for now as Honda garage quoted me £1900 for the rear beam!?!
I was gobsmacked at the potential cost so have left it for now, especially as the local indy garage have said it's just the Honda dealership being overly cautious.
i20N will be too far over her 10k budget. But she loves them!
@bennyboy....i got a pattern rear beam for £375 delivered. One that came from Honda was about £1200, sobyours may include fitting. We had it fitted for about £400 inc new discs and rear calipers.
If you DM me, i will send you details of where i got it. Only a type R will fit, the other models arent compatible.
Ian
The rear beam rusts from the inside out. Ours looked great and passed mot at somewhere i trust. It was impossible to spot and it failed when she fell into a big pothole at Keele services on the way home one sunday night. It was a 'youre going nowhere' failure so needed recovery etc.
I love the 595 Arbarth. However, my Brother had one right up until it was stolen from the restaurant car park we were at. ON CCTV it took 22 seconds from first touching the car to driving it off. I was staggered how easily they stole it.
Audi S1 ?
I had a Mini Cooper S, fun car to drive. I’ve had also sorts of fast cars and the Cooper S was one of the most fun I’ve had. But it had reliability issues, engine light was constantly coming on, going off again etc. BMW or a Mini indie couldn’t find out what was causing it. I forget the name of the part now, but the engine kept saying it was a fault with some sensor or another, replaced the main part of the sensor twice and the rear part once. Engine warning light came back on again and with it the reduction in power.
Currently in a Cupra 290. Maybe an older Cupra is worth a look? My Cupra is new, but it’s a great car to drive!
As I'm now at a laptop I can have proper look through Pistonheads
RS Megane(s) https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14504449 or https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14651341
RS Clio https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14607077
Focus ST https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14507017
Curveball - BBR MX-5 https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14765974
Waftball - Jaaaaag XJR https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14667604
There's load of other options, plenty of 1 and 3-Series BMWs, the odd TT and Boxster, and for some reason an abundance of Nissan Juke Nismos (bleurgh!). Me I'd have the Clio but I like French cars for some stupid reason.
When I had this sort of thing, I tested the Fiesta ST and the 208 GTi.
The Fiesta was the better car to drive at full tilt, but (if we're not talking about the current generation but the previous one) we thought it would be a pain to live with because of the interior. There's just a massive sneeze of buttons on the dash and it wasn't a nice car to sit in. Since most of the time you're sat in it trundling around we didn't go for it.
The 208 was what we ended up buying. It felt much more premium inside, and it was still a joy to drive. The suspension was so well set up. The power comes all at the top end of the rev range, which may feel a bit V-Tecish. It certainly didn't feel like the twincharger car I had before it. It was also exceptionally comfortable for long journeys, and better value than the Fiesta. It was also exceptionally reliable. I regret selling it a lot.
How about a Nissan 350Z? As an example, but colour is awful 😂:
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14088739
I don’t know about the fn2 but my ep3 was bombproof, I think I had it for around 11 years with no big problems and sold it nearing 200k on the clock. Rust definitely wasn’t an issue.
Well you could pass a tennis ball through the holes on parts of the undercarriage of my EP3 when I let it go.
You have to tell her though, nothing (other than another vtec'd car) will replace it for her. My Golf GTI is nice, but it doesn't go batshit at 6k rpm and it's all the worse for it!
Started looking at 208GTis and came across this website - they have some sexy, sexy cars...
Another Abarth 595 owner here....Best fun car I've ever had....and my last car was a Jag E pace r dynamic...imo the Abarth is way better....in all ways
Except Comfort
I had a Fiesta ST3 Mk7.5- amazing car! Super engaging handling, breaks and all the kit you need. Enough power to have fun without losing your licence.
The ride was very firm (something improved on MY16 onward cars) in town and slow speeds, but get onto a nice back road and it's lovely.
We need another car and am looking at the ST again. I still miss it! Might be out of budget, but they did a small run of 5 door STs too which helps with practicality and roof racks.
I had a Mini Cooper S, fun car to drive. I’ve had also sorts of fast cars and the Cooper S was one of the most fun I’ve had. But it had reliability issues, engine light was constantly coming on, going off again etc. BMW or a Mini indie couldn’t find out what was causing it. I forget the name of the part now, but the engine kept saying it was a fault with some sensor or another, replaced the main part of the sensor twice and the rear part once. Engine warning light came back on again and with it the reduction in power.
Those R56 MINIs CS with the N14 and N18 engines were awful for reliability.
The current F56 is the exact opposite with the 2.0 from the 1 series.
I have a JCW and it's really good fun despite the car having grown a bit yet again.
Nissan Juke Nismos (bleurgh!).
Why are they even a thing, or is NISMO pretty much just a trim level now, (big wheels (expensive tyres), uncomfortable seats and rock hard suspension) and not much performance uplift... like S-line audi and M-sport bimmers?
Fiesta ST might be worth looking at... remember to consider service, tyre and parts costs along side the usual purchace price and insurance cost.
Id go for a Fiesta ST, they handle great for a fwd hot hatch, have some poke and look good
Im currently running a 2016 Focus ST ( mapped to 280 BHP) which is great fun and also works as a family car, also have had a S1 RS Turbo, a couple of S2 RS Turbos, RS16I's XR3's etc...
Always liked the look of the Abarth 500's they look like they would be good fun to drive
Ive owned Vauxhals (Mk1 Astra GTE & a Nova GSI) which were fun and the Corsa is a modern Nova so should be good fun to drive
Id stay well away from a Pug, had a few 306's (GTI & D Turbo's) not worth the hassle imo
As for the Mini cooper, if im correct they actually have an engine built by the Peugeot/Citreon group and going by my neighbour and his friends ones they constantly need work done to them
As for the Mini cooper, if im correct they actually have an engine built by the Peugeot/Citreon group and going by my neighbour and his friends ones they constantly need work done to them
No that's the previous generation R56 up to 2013. The current one (to be replaced next year) uses the 2.0 B48 from the 1-series for the S and the JCW.
The Cooper uses the BMW 1.5 triple.
Both very reliable.
320bhp, 0-60mph 5.1 secs. BMW M135i.
That BMW straight six engine is the equivalent power of 2 x Abarth engines! ;-D
Possibly, but it’s got two more cylinders, and has a larger capacity, plus it’s a bigger car.
Go for an Abarth 696, and you’ve got a 1.4 four-cylinder delivering 185 bhp, in a car the size of a skate shoe. Plus the Abarth won’t end up a driveway princess at the first sign of a few snowflakes…
An Abarth 696 Competizione is well specced, but might need some additional budgeting… 😉
Id stay well away from a Pug, had a few 306’s (GTI & D Turbo’s) not worth the hassle imo
As for the Mini cooper, if im correct they actually have an engine built by the Peugeot/Citreon group and going by my neighbour and his friends ones they constantly need work done to them
Where I was working recently, we had loads of Pugs in as driving school cars, mostly 208’s, but 308’s and 2008/3008’s as well, and they were constantly causing problems with battery warnings when the cars were started up if they’d been sat for a while. Nearly always required a charger attached and left charging overnight. Brand new cars as well, they’d just been sat around waiting to be picked for a driving instructor. Occasionally had the same issue with Corsas, which are a 208 underneath, but rarely, if ever, had issues like that with Fiestas, Focus or Pumas, and some of those were sat around for so long the plates had to be updated!
I have a really soft spot for Civics (although my wife has pretty much refused to get into the last two I've had and one of my sons doesn't like being picked up from school in it) but for £10k ish, I think I'd be buying a Mini.
I had an 18 plate JCW for a while which I really, really liked. Minis feel a bit special inside, they are a nice place to be, and they drive nicely too without needing daft amounts of power to make you smile.
stay well away from a Pug, had a few 306’s (GTI & D Turbo’s) not worth the hassle imo
Heretic I loved my 306gti and it was mostly worth the hassle but it was also a royal pain in the wallet at times. My only hot hatch as I've spent most of my adult life clocking up too many miles to not appreciate/prioritise long journey comfort and decent fuel economy! Not of any use to the OP but that couldn't go completely unchallenged 🙂.