You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
...and the parents were checking on them regularly.
That's not been proven. In fact we know that some of the checks didn't actually involved verifying that the children were even there!
I'm advocating putting the welfare of your children above a piss up with friends.Obviously it's a horrible situation but a bit of personal responsibility is needed.
wow you knwo in all the time since this happened the parents had never thought of that 🙄
You are stating the bleeding obvious . Should we hate them for it and lets not forget , whatever the parents did, the daughter is the victim here.
Everyone knows it was irresponsible of the Mc Canns do to do this and they bear some responsibility but that does not mean they deserve the consequences or their child did. Whoever did this is the one[s] who deserve our hatred/contempt.
Why people are not sympathetic to them is lost on me. you can see all the above and still feel sorry for them
Grum you are correct the media is racist and there were other reasons for all the publicity but that is not really the issue here - it is an issue worthy of debate though.
TuckerUK - MemberI have seen no evidence to suggest that Madeline was abducted. If anyone has that evidence I'm sure the Police would be interested to see it. And one would think the parents' first concern would be the safe recover of their cherished child, not promoting or protecting their good name (hiring those paragons of virtue Max Clifford and Carter Ruck).
I used to think that the McCannns were guilty here and there was no abduction. However I have changed my view as if they had been they would have allowed it to fade away into obscurity now
I have seen no evidence to suggest that Madeline was abducted.
Oh FFS you saying she has not disappeared then? What exactly is your well evidenced claim here?
And one would think the parents' first concern would be the safe recover of their cherished child, not promoting or protecting their good name (hiring those paragons of virtue Max Clifford and Carter Ruck)
Well as some people still think they did it , or it never happened, and the publicity means even years afterwards her name and the issue is still known. I cannot for the life of me think why they did this. You seem to have great insights why not have another wild stab in the dark or make another unevidenced innuendo?
Why people are not sympathetic to them is lost on me. you can see all the above and still feel sorry for them
I'm not a perfect person.
Nope, none of us are.
My analogy with the open window and burglary got the bites I was after and demonstrates my point. Thanks. As a society we often apportion too much blame in the wrong place and it really gets my goat.
I left the key in the back door the other night. We've done it for years, mainly because I like to keep the house locked to prevent burglars (see what I did there?) but I want to know I can unlock it easily in the case of a fire. It's a happy compromise for us as a family. Unfortunately my 2 year old has learnt how to unlock and open the back door and was stood outside at 5:30am in the morning. If he'd gone missing we would have been beyond distraught, but I'd be very annoyed if anyone suggested it was neglect. We don't keep the key in the door anymore.
My analogy with the open window and burglary got the bites I was after and demonstrates my point. Thanks. As a society we often apportion too much blame in the wrong place and it really gets my goat.
It would be lovely if we could trust everyone enough to leave our doors unlocked but unfortunately there are people out there who rob and steal. You should do your best to prevent that happening, for instance something as simple as closing a window.
If you were on your own in a bar/cafe would you leave your wallet/phone etc on the table when you went to the toilet?
would you blame me or the thief if it got nicked is the more pertinent question.
One act is foolish the other immoral.
Everyone knows the parents shoulder some responsibility.
If you were on your own in a bar/cafe would you leave your wallet/phone etc on the table when you went to the toilet?
No, but blame the thief who steals it first and foremost, not me for leaving it there. The more we suggest it is a normal part of society for people to steal/abduct/murder the closer we get to it being acceptable. Do you see the distinction I'm trying - perhaps badly - to make?
I am a parent, I would never leave a child of that age unattended, and no, I don't leave them in the car alone when I get fuel either (and never have). It's just basic common sense really isn't it?
I doubt anyone disagrees with that...
We would never have left our kids unattended at that young an age. Stupidity, responsibility, remorse - all those things can be said of the parents - but to go as far as some have said is beyond normal comprehension.
What's the thread title again?? "HOPEFULLY SHE WON'T BE GIVEN BACK TO HER PARENTS" 🙄
Like I posted above - that will be a professional child protection decision, luckily not one for the likes of us
Wow, as usual on any STW "parenting" thread there are some scary opinions on here.
I do wonder about these parents that profess they never leave the side of their child, day and night. How do you manage to have any sort of life like that? Did your parents do the same for you? Do you really think that's best for the child? How old will they be before you will leave them alone in a room? 21?
Last time this came up I made a confession, but the thread got closed (due to other antics) before I got a chance to discuss it, so here goes again:
When my wife and I were on holiday this year we left our 10 month old daughter alone in the room while we went for a drink in the hotel bar (not a big pish-up, just a quiet relaxing glass of wine). And I'd do it again.
Feeing the sanctimonious rage yet? 😆
She was in a travel cot, in our locked room on the 3rd floor and she was perfectly safe. We had a video babymonitor so we could see she was sleeping happily. No harm done, we got to relax and she got a better sleep for us not being in the room.
"HOPEFULLY SHE WON'T BE GIVEN BACK TO HER PARENTS"
Stupid comment.
... left our 10 month old daughter alone in the room while we went for a drink in the hotel bar ... travel cot, ... locked room ... 3rd floor ... perfectly safe ... video babymonitor ... No harm done ...
Probably the most sensible comment on this whole thread.
Yeah GrahamS - but what if a criminal mastermind hacked into your monitor and replaced the video of him abducting her with a loop of a sleeping baby? See? You're just not thinking these things through, which is why you're not fit to be a parent 🙁
When my wife and I were on holiday this year we left our 10 month old daughter alone in the room while we went for a drink in the hotel bar (not a big pish-up, just a quiet relaxing glass of wine). And I'd do it again.
Sex of the child aside, this could have been my exact post a couple of years ago, but I couldn't be bothered with the STW wrath I suspected would be forthcoming. Sad really
would you blame me or the thief if it got nicked is the more pertinent question.
One act is foolish the other immoral.
I'd blame the thief but I wouldn't have much sympathy for you.
The more we suggest it is a normal part of society for people to steal/abduct/murder the closer we get to it being acceptable. Do you see the distinction I'm trying - perhaps badly - to make?
I get it and agree with you. If I saw someone take your wallet after you left it to go the toilet I'd try and stop them, but I'd call you a silly bugger for leaving it there. But we live in a world where it happens and we should do everything reasonable* to make it as difficult as possible for people** to do it.
What's the thread title again?? "HOPEFULLY SHE WON'T BE GIVEN BACK TO HER PARENTS"Like I posted above - that will be a professional child protection decision, luckily not one for the likes of us
FWIW completely disagree with the thread title.
*subjective
**if there wasn't a swear filter I would have used a different word.
*reports G's post to the Mods AND Social Services*
It's people like you, etc. 🙂
Has anyone blamed the Nazi's yet?
I'd blame the thief but I wouldn't have much sympathy for you.
Aha, that's the difference between you and I (odd how peeps are different, eh?). I'd blame the thief, have sympathy for you but still call you a silly bugger.
I don't think I'd feel comfortable doing that but you could see that your child was okay so I think that's reasonable, a locked hotel room restricts the people that can get in (unlike an unlocked ground floor apartment).
Used to walk to school when I was 9/10 on my own though but that was when all this was fields, having an older sister meant my parents always had a babysitter though.
Used to walk to school when I was 9/10 on my own though but that was when all this was fields
Yep I did likewise. About a mile through the woods and a jump over the river. All healthy stuff.
Mind you I was also a "latchkey kid" so maybe I was horribly neglected too 🙂
Every weekday I go to work, leaving my wife and two small boys all alone ... they might all be abducted some day ... am I a bad husband/parent for leaving them?
It was all going so well.
the reason i think the parents did it is because most of the time when children are killed its by their parents, and secondly they found her DNA under a car mat in the back of the car with the spare wheel. they did it and that Portuguese police man knew they did it as well, he just couldn't prove it!
ilovemygears - Memberthe reason i think the parents did it is because most of the time when children are killed its by their parents, and secondly they found her DNA under a car mat in the back of the car with the spare wheel. they did it and that Portuguese police man knew they did it as well, he just couldn't prove it!
I used to think so however if they had they would have let it drop by now I am sure hence I changed my mind
Damn the burden of proof! NAIL EM UP!
TandemJeremy - Member
ilovemygears - Member
the reason i think the parents did it is because most of the time when children are killed its by their parents, and secondly they found her DNA under a car mat in the back of the car with the spare wheel. they did it and that Portuguese police man knew they did it as well, he just couldn't prove it!I used to think so however if they had they would have let it drop by now I am sure hence I changed my mind
they need to keep the pretence up to keep them selves sane, read about this guy, they did it! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O.J._Simpson
that Portuguese police man knew they did it as well, he just couldn't prove it!
From what I read of your posts on here almost everything you believe is something that cannot be proved.
they did it and that Portuguese police man knew they did it as well, he just couldn't prove it!
Ah you mean [url= http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article1913175.ece ]Gonçalo Amaral, who was charged with beating a false confession out of the mother of another missing girl seven miles away[/url]. Yeah he seems credible.
taken in isolation graham you may have a point but when you couple it with the lack of evidence implicating them it starts to become credible ..if you just ignore the proof bit obviously
semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit
But sometimes lack of evidence is evidence of a coverup![/tinfoil hat]
Also the DNA in the hire car was explainable (as having come from Madeleine's favourite toy) and was downplayed by Portugal's national police chief:
I am a parent, I would never leave a child of that age unattended, and no, I don't leave them in the car alone when I get fuel either (and never have). It's just basic common sense really isn't it?I doubt anyone disagrees with that...
*Holds hand up*
I'd leave my daughter in the car while filling up TBH. I don't see there's any appreciable difference in risk between that option and carrying her across a petrol staion forecourt. She's in a separate room overnight too, though we do have a baby monitor to check for noises.
I guess it's down to each parent to assess where they feel comfortable. It's them that have to live with the consequences if it goes wrong. Don't know enough about the McCann case to comment directly on that, but wouldn't wish that sort of thing on anyone. Whether you blame them or not is irrelevant, you can bet they blame themselves.
even if they didnt do it there neglect lead to happening not much difference in my book
Massive difference.
even if they didnt do it there neglect lead to happening not much difference in my book
Then I must conclude that your opinion is as well-considered as your grammar. 🙂
🙄
Ok. I am a parent of 2 kids and probably a bit overprotective of them when they were smaller. But I have left them monitored upstairs in a hotel in the way that GrahamS describes. But that is hugely different from leaving three unmonitored very young kids in an unlocked ground floor apartment at some distance from where you were with your drinking buddies.
Mrs McCann has not always come across as contrite or pleasant and the posters who point to the dominance of this story compared with many other missing kid stories have a fair point. Perhaps her own feelings of her own guilt lead to some of her behaviour.
Personally I hope Maddy died as painlessly as possible some years ago, because almost anything else sounds too dreadful. I also hope the McCanns move on and remember they had 2 other children who need them and need to feel the centre of their world..
did we find out if the dailywail story had any facts behind it
or as it is not covered by a credible news agency, is it safe to assume it was just column filler or paid for by the parents to stir up history
soobalias - Memberdid we find out if the dailywail story had any facts behind it
Yes - its a load of codswallop.
im not clicking that
the url looks like its the national media equivalent of
Day 1 Page 1. "WE HAVE FOUND HER!!!!!"
Day 9 Page 17 "actually we didnt, but all of our stories are factually accurate to the best of our knowledge"