Homeless people, am I stupid?

No you're not stupid mate. I respect your empathy.

The homeless situation breaks my heart, it's absolutely shameful. I don't give them money anymore because I don't carry it anymore but will often ask if they want anything when I'm popping into a shop. I also hate the judgemental attitude about them 'only spending the money on booze or drugs'. So bloody what? If I was on the streets I'd want some strong drink too.

And don't get me started on this 'oh he's probably got a Mercedes parked up round the corner' bollocks. It's an urban myth.

So am I stupid, are they just blowing it on drugs

Many are yes.

secretly making a fortune from gullible people

I expect some, but at least for a while young foreign woman you see KNEELING, like is prayer, are part of bands of thieves. Currently its old foreign woman.

.

People who take drugs, as in addicted to them, as well as alcoholics, make up a high proportion of  the homeless as in places like homeless units and night shelters you arent allowed to take drugs or be drunk. So those that do run out of warnings and get booted out.

If you want to give, give food.

I also hate the judgemental attitude about them ‘only spending the money on booze or drugs’. So bloody what?

I think people worry that they are not "helping" them, that drink/drugs is making things worse not better. Not saying thats right, just that's what people think.

We used to live in an area with lots of homeless people - we give money to a local homelessness charity instead, just because we could never give cash to everyone we saw.

It's your money, so it's up to you.

You reminded me of an Adam Buxton podcast with Lorna Tucker back in October. She's experienced homelessness and addiction and has made a documentary called  Someone's Daughter, Someone's Son about the issues. I'd like to watch it sometime.

A colleague of mine left the public health service to set up a dedicated charity medical service for people that can't/won't access regular healthcare and it's been an outstanding success. Super impressive.

i tend to give food and water. though no idea if someone in such a state of addiction can actually eat.

i guess if they use the money you give them to buy drugs it will stop them stealing and alcohol withdrawal can kill so if they buy drink/drugs with the money is it so bad? i don’t know. it is a shitty situation.

It's not stupid, It's a moral conundrum that breaks my heart.

My brother died destitute and addicted to precription pain killers and hard street drugs, coke and heroin. I tried to help him, my god I tried, he lived with me for a while but I had to kick him out.

He died of an accidental OD in a squat in bradford. The corenors report had a list of drugs longer than my arm in the blood tests, some i've never heard of, but mostly presctption 'downers'.

I beat myself up every day trying to think what I could have done better, but I never have an answer.

The kicker is he died with 4 grand in his savings account. He was so far gone he didn't realise he had a little bit of money to get a flat rental or something that was away from the culture he was in. That Money went to his estranged daughter in the end. but it's someting that keeps me awake at night.

How hard and unfair life can be.

Jesus Christ, that's tragic - I'm sorry.

So am I stupid, are they just blowing it on drugs, or secretly making a fortune from gullable people like me?

You absolutely aren't stupid

Like loads of folks i used to help with a charity in Edinburgh for the homeless and at the time it was a real mix.  You would get folks that weren't homeless coming in to the city to beg and you would get people who were really temporarily down on their luck due to circumstances and for those folks it kept them going.  In Brussels I pass a whole family every day who sound like the professional thieves above but who actually live in a doorway and have their mattresses neatly stacked away and pull them out each night. They've been there for years

For me the answer is that you have to treat any money you give them like all aid - a lot of it will miss it's mark but don't let that put you off as the people who really need it are there as well, just keep going.  Food is great as well as are homeless charities.  You aren't going to solve the problem but you might just make the difference for someone or keep them going another day.

Listening to a chap who has been homeless and now helps the homeless. He said 'not all people who end up on the streets are there because of addiction, but if they spend any length of time on the street, there is a high chance that they will end up an addict'.

He also pointed out, lots of people in their nice, comfy houses, enjoy a drink or smoke in an evening, before getting into a nice, warm bed...

Its definitely worth listening to some of the Drug Science Podcasts on addiction, or watching Sex, Drugs and Murder from the red light district in Leeds. There aren't many people that actually choose that way of life.

I have a friend who works in Leeds. He makes two lunches each day, one for him and one to give away.

And another who buys £5 gift cards for shops where they can buy food.

We make a monthly donation to a local charity but I'm not averse to giving cash too.

I give money to homeless folk begging. In the same way I don't want my boss following me around the supermarket peering into my shopping trolley and tutting at the bottle of wine he finds there; what they do with the money after I've given it to them is none of my business. Frankly if I was living on the street, I'd want to get off my head as well.

So no, I don't think you're stupid.

I have a friend who works in Leeds. He makes two lunches each day, one for him and one to give away.

Is a lovely idea

The idea of a 'suspended coffee' or even a meal is quite popular around where I live.  When you go into a cafe you can also pay for a second coffee that they will make available to someone who comes in but can't afford to buy one themselves.

Thanks for the replies, I'll continue doing it then, I guess even if they have an addiction and blow it on drugs or booze then it's still making their life more tolerable as that's what they want. Just often see people looking at me when I give them a note as in a fiver or tenner and I'm sure they're thinking what a mug but who cares.

I usually ask how they are doing and if they want any food as well if outside a shop, some don't really say much but a few I have a bit of a chat with. I know I can't help them all. One guy asked for some change recently as I was paying for a car park but I'd just given my last bit to someone else I'd seen earlier that night. I told him and he said 'of course you did mate!' I felt bad I had no more change but I guess they hear that excuse all the time. I have a lot of spare time at the moment as on long term sick from work so I might look at helping out in a shelter or something as well.

Trouble with all things like this is there's too many homeless and people in need of other charities and help and I can't help them all. It's recently made me start thinking of trying to reduce all the crap i used to buy as much of it is unnecessary. I feel bad now for buying a 50 quid Nespresso machine last night (also due to me being a bit drunk!) My life has turned pretty crap as well since I've been off work sick, severe depression and anxiety which I think has also made me a lot more respectful of people in dire situations.

Round my way its a mix.  there are some that are "at it"  there are some unfortunate souls, there are some addicts.  Some of them have been doing it for years and I have watched their decline

A fair few are raising money to get a hostel place each day.  the local hostel is £9 a night to stay in

I chat to them and buy them food and try not to be judgemental but its not easy.  I have also given them waterproofs and sleeping bags

Tjagain - I never realised they had to pay for hostels which is why they maybe pack up once I give them the cash. I feel a bit naive about the whole situation, which is probably also why I started the thread. I also think my depression and not really being bothered about my own life anymore has changed how I think recently

That last sentence is a bit concerning...you clearly do care though as you are giving and showing concern for others which is an amazingly positive thing.

The hostel I refer to is a private hostel catering for the homeless not a "homeless shelter" run by local government or charity.  We have a shelter near us as well but its full up usually and also strict rules ie no entry if drunk

I have no facts to back it up but I imagine, away from tube stations in London anyway, the vast majority of people begging are doing it for food or drugs/alcohol (rather than instead of a full time job and they live in a 3 bed house in the suburbs as the Daily Mail would have you believe). Whilst I think most of us would hope any money you give goes towards food rather than drugs I don't think it's necessarily a waste if it ends up spent on drugs.

If I was unlucky enough to end up in that sort of situation I could quite easily see myself ending up on crack and heroin, who wants to exist in that sort of reality 'clean' (assuming you've given a decent go, and failed, of trying to get yourself out of that situation)? Besides it's also an appetite suppressant and I don't mean that to sound flippant - if I can spend a £20 donation on a bag each of white and brown, get a brief escape from reality and the pain of withdrawal symptoms as well the feeling of being starving hungry for a few hours then it certainly sounds a tempting option.

Heart-breaking is the word, its tough to know what to do. Some look like out and out junkies, some just look properly down beat and fed up. It was probably on a similar thread on here years ago that echoes the message above - if they want to spend money on booze or drugs that's their brief respite from a shit situation. Just like we might have a drink in the evening to flatten a stressful day, I'm ok if I buy someone the same.

If any one of them has a Merc hidden away then they are more than welcome to it, sitting next to the supermarket all day in the cold and wet while smelling of piss is not a job I'd go for.

I've worked close to a needle exchange and methadone clinic for almost a decade. Every other week we have to move someone on who is shooting up in our car park or on the doorstep, once a year we call an ambulance for someone, our needle guy picks up about 30 discarded ones a month. I've been approached for drugs and watched one guy go from young, healthy & "in control / not addicted" to a bag of bones looking 30 years older.

I don't often give cash as I rarely have any on me but do sometimes offer to buy something, the guy I usually pass only ever asks for a milkshake or a red bull. Don't ever feel bad about being kind to someone.

My partner works for a homeless charity in Edinburgh and she always asks how the person is and if they want anything.

She insists that giving them food or a non-alcoholic drink is the best thing to do.

Particularly with the East European begging gangs.
At least then the person sitting on the street is actually getting something rather than money going to the Gangmaster.

I work in Manchester City centre and the city has a seemingly ever increasing homelessness problem and very visible street drugs issues (Piccadilly gardens area in particular). There’s a few long term homeless guys I see on my walk to work most days and will often stop and have a chat and buy them some food or a drink (normally don’t have cash on me as pay for everything on card / Apple Pay)

Some of their stories are pretty eye opening as you would expect, but the theme seems to be that it may not be drugs that put you on the street (although often a major contributor), but if you are on the street for any time it’s highly likely substance abuse will be a feature just to get by / numb the pain. And ultimately feed the cycle. THey we’re also saying that post pandemic the lack of people carrying cash makes begging very difficult to get by on and ‘professional beggars’ are largely a myth these days

Manchester had a number of contactless card points set up in shop windows / side of buildings for local homeless aid, where you can tap your card as you walk past to give £5 which I think is a genius idea

There no quick fix or easy answer, but I think many people don’t realise how easy it is to end up on the streets, especially given housing / renting crisis in this country. I can’t imagine how shit it must me to live on the street, so if they spend you £10 on spice, it’s totally understandable

I've said this before on here, but a Big Issue seller turned up at my local Co-op a few years back.
There's never been any person begging or selling it there before. She turned up on the last couple of days before Christmas, at lunchtime only, and I saw her being picked up in a Merc after about an hour.
Similarly, a couple of women have been in town near me this Christmas, who I've never seen elsewhere in town. And they aren't there now the new year is here.
It does make me wonder if they've been trafficked.

There no quick fix or easy answer, but I think many people don’t realise how easy it is to end up on the streets, especially given housing / renting crisis in this country.

this very much.  I have seen it said that the majority of the country are only 3 months unemployment or illhealth away from homelessness

Lose your job you have a minimum of 6 weeks until you get any benefits so even once the benefits start you are in serious arrears with rent or mortgage and benefit levels are so low that its quite possible you will not have enough money to eve pay your rent or mortgage in full let alone recover the arrears. Tenancy (in england more than scotland) are so skewed towards landlords that you get evicted for nonpayment of rent.  then you have no chance of getting enough money together for a deposit for a new tenancy.  Boom.  Homeless.

Slightly adjacent to giving money to homeless on the street. This charity aims to give money directly to the poor to let them make decisions on what they want to spend it on and how best to improve their own lives.

Give Directly 

I chat to them and buy them food and try not to be judgemental but its not easy.

Unless you know every aspect of their past lives why is it difficult not to be judgemental?

My default position is that they probably have mental health issues or past traumas in lives such as child sexual abuse or violence, or PTS from combat situations, and have failed to get the help and support they needed, and have probably ended up self-medicating with substances which temporarily blot out the pain.

I once attended as an observer a very large AA meeting, many had drug addiction issues as well as alcohol ones, many had ended up on the streets.

Obviously all at the meeting were in the process of recovery and to hear the stories of lives and what they had gone through, listening to their determination to change their lives, I found hugely inspiring.

And it made me feel somewhat inadequate - I wondered whether I would have the strength to overcome the horrendous challenges that they had.

A little while back a dirty and strongly smelling bloke in his twenties in Macdonald's in central London came up to me and told me that he had a voucher for a portion of french fries, and asked if would I buy him a burger to go with them.

As I ordered his burger his french fries arrived, I have never seen a hungry person eat so quickly, he just couldn't stuff the fries in his mouth quick enough. It broke my heart and haunted me for several days. I can't imagine that he was living the life of his own choosing.

Agree with 'don't ever feel bad for being kind to someone'. I heard a radio interview about a year ago but wouldn't remember where now, where there was some social science done around rough sleepers. The best thing to do is to find out where your local hostel and help is, so when asked you can buy some food or similar and ask them if they know where to get support from. As others have said there are lots of reasons why someone rough sleeping might not want to or be able to access those resources but if someone is new to the area it might make a difference. Are you aware of StreetLink? They try to notify the agencies and charities to rough sleepers so that someone with appropriate experience and training can try and persuade them into the system. It's about getting them support. As said, it also doesn't work for some people at some points in time.

So am I stupid

100% no. You're one of the good people who think and care about others and act on it. Managing that emotion can be hard, you can't help them all. But what you do does help.

There are so many ways to help and some cash or food given directly and a chat is as important as buying a Big Issue or donating £ or time to a homeless charity. It's all positive. Personally I just don't think we can question or judge people in that situation. Sure, a small percentage might be taking advantage to an extent, but you see cold, dirty or haggard-looking people and you know they're in a bad place in life. There but for the grace of god..

A long time ago I asked someone begging by a train station shop if I could get them anything, they asked for wet wipes and tissues. Heartbroken for them is the right word, I hadn't really thought about their priorities and it was about 9pm, was half expecting 'can of red bull / stella'. They just wanted to clean up. Even the common red bull answer is so sad, to be trying to avoid needing to sleep.

I hate how our society is structured or creates situations where people can make some bad decisions and end up this way, but even more I hate how most people just ignore them and find a way to absolve their conscience with 'oh they're just begging gangs / addicts' etc. Anyone who is the kind of person to stop and ask or offer help is someone I have all the time in the world for.

I used to give money to people on the street or begging on road junctions. Until I read in the paper that a few had been picked up by police, all had address's and were part of a begging gang. A few beg outside the doors of our local supermarket. A couple of females. They get handed a sandwich or two by people as well as money. When they had enough money for a score, they got up and left, leaving the sandwiches.

You just dont know if your feeding an addiction or funding a professional begging circle by giving them money direct.

I now make a monthly direct debit contribution to a homeless charity instead.

jambourgie

And don’t get me started on this ‘oh he’s probably got a Mercedes parked up round the corner’ bollocks. It’s an urban myth.

It's not a myth that there are fake beggars, there are gangs that go from town to town doing it, this is one that has been causing a nuisance in the towns local to me over the last few months.

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/23073631.gang-fake-homeless-beggars-chelmsford-city-centre/

Personally I would rather get duped by thieves the odd time than risk not giving help to somebody who really needs it.

If you want to give, give food.

I listened to an interesting program on the radio by a guy who has worked with the homeless for years in Manchester. He was very strongly in favour of not giving food. His logic was that there are quite a few shelters/charities etc working at various points across the city, where the homeless can get a good, hot, meal and, crucially, access to the other services that could help them further (healthcare, showers, social work, substance abuse help, etc etc). His argument was that if they're eating 'on the street' they don't go to those places, so don't get the other, in some ways more important, help.

He spoke to quite a few homeless people on the program as well and the common consensus seemed to be that, of all the issues facing them, access to food wasn't one of them.

Just to be clear, I say this by way of offering what I thought was an interesting and informed opinion, I'm absolutely not saying "don't feed the awful filthy beggars, there's workhouses for them to go to", like some modern day Scrooge

I chat to them and buy them food and try not to be judgemental but its not easy.

I guess he means it's not easy to just chat. We're living in comfort and most of us can't relate to the issues they might have.

It is easy to break the conversational ice, just start by asking if they work in business.

I think real lasting change can only come from voting for progressive politics, homelessness and the treatment of addiction in the homeless community* is far too big a problem for occasional charity.

*Is it just me who feels "homeless community" is too nice a way of phrasing those suffering the homeless problem?

Unless you know every aspect of their past lives why is it difficult not to be judgemental?

Because of my cosy middle class prejudices and the way I can tell some of them are "at it"    I do talk to them and when the story they tell alters day by day and / or is obvious nonsense then its hard not to be judgemental

I do try to not to let my prejudices affect my behaviour towards them.  I am at least being honest about this.  I spend about 5- 10% of my  weekly income on homeless folk and most years donate a minimum of £100 to homeless charities as well as what I give to the beggars.

An example.  A ( I think) Romanian woman outside the local shop.  She asked for food.  I offered to buy her a sandwich.  She had little english but she said no I want this and opened her bag ( which i could see contained a fair amount of groceries) and pulled out a pack of meat that would have cost maybe a tenner.  Get me this she said.  I later saw her being asked by another woman if she needed food.  Again language difficulties so the the beggar actually went into the shop with this woman and was stuffing a basket full of expensive meat for this kind woman to pay for relying on the kind woman being to embarrassed to say no.  MY guesstimate is at the end of this the beggar had over £50 worth of groceries including a lot of meat.  It was hard to see this woman as in genuine need and hard to give her what she asked for when I could see she had enough groceries to feed a family for several days and that she was uninterested in low value stuff.

To be able to fight your own prejudices you first need to be aware of them and acknowledge them

*Is it just me who feels “homeless community” is too nice a way of phrasing those suffering the homeless problem?

There is a homeless community though... at least in the cities I've lived in. Obviously many people are outside even that, and have problems that mean they can't be part of it. They are very alone.

I could see she had enough groceries to feed a family for several days sell to have some income and that she was uninterested in low value stuff

Homeless people need money.

I'm one of the people who (for I admit selfish reasons) only give ready to consume food and drink, and hot at that in the winter. Money is more useful, but I want to know I've been an immediate help... even though what these people so often really need is to not be absolutely broke. I can't get past the "what if they spend it on..." issue emotionally, even though that is a self centred approach.

To be able to fight your own prejudices you first need to be aware of them and acknowledge them

Even then, it can be a losing battle. I admit it is for me.

He spoke to quite a few homeless people on the program as well and the common consensus seemed to be that, of all the issues facing them, access to food wasn’t one of them.

some of my local homeless access to food clearly is a huge issue. Whether this is particularly an Edinburgh issue I don't know but I too have had similar experiences to Ernie with clearly starving folk

I guess he means it’s not easy to just chat.

No - I mean its hard not to be judgemental about them.  We all carry baggage and prejudice.  Its difficult to set that aside.  Not impossible tho.

To be able to acknowledge your own predjudices is the first step to acting without prejudice

Better to inadvertently give money to someone who doesn't need it than to not give to someone who does.

I'm one of those that just gives them money.

When you work in the city centre, as I did a lot, pre-covid, you tend to see the same people all the time. A walk across Manchester City Centre at 7.30 am is one of the most dispiriting experiences ever. Homeless people asleep in literally every doorway.

If I give them money and they want to go and spend it on White Lightning/Spice/Food/A hostel for the night then thats their decision to make. They're not children and I'm sure they've had quite enough of people judging them

We have to live in the real world he whole and homelssness issue is just another bi-product of our totally ****ed up society with quite a few factors at play

We have a government that has zero interest in everyone having a roof over their heads

We have a government that keeps reiterating its commitment to the completely pointless and counter-productive 'war on drugs' while having zero interest in treatment services for addicts or providing services to people with mental health issues.

So while these are the two main factors in play here (IMHO, of course) if I give a tenner to someone and they spend that getting wasted, in whatever method they favour, to blot out the misery of their day-to-day existent then thats one less house they have to burgle or one less arrest for shoplifting, so its probably one of the better outcomes for everyone.

In a perfect world they'd get a meal and put it towards a place to stay for the night, but lets deal with the world as it really is

If I'd been sleeping in a doorway with the weather how its been over the last few weeks, I know I'd be prioritising numbing that as much as possible

I do talk to them and when the story they tell alters day by day and / or is obvious nonsense then its hard not to be judgemental

They may tell themselves different stories too. It's easy to see how living like that would affect your grasp on reality, as do drugs.
You're right on your point about acknowledging our prejudices, totally.

Better to inadvertently give money to someone who doesn’t need it than to not give to someone who does.

Yep, my view as well, I give the change from my pocket, maybe a fiver. I don't really care much if it turns out they are part of a gang. Who knows; they might get a beating if they get picked up with no money.

Personally I would rather get duped by thieves the odd time than risk not giving help to somebody who really needs it.

Was going to post this exact sentiment myself.

Try not to give money, but I'll check if the guy outside Tesco needs anything buying, will get a warm drink or donate a full loyalty card to one near a cafe.

All of us are maybe only 2 pay checks, or a life crisis away from being on the street. My mental health issues have made me very aware of this.

I started a similar discussion a year or two ago on here and the answers I got changed my views especially with regards giving money.  I am now more prepared to give money than I used to be.

IMO this is where this place is good.  My assumptions were challenged and as a result I changed my viewpoint

another point to make is that homeless does not equal roofless.  There are many more homeless people than sleep on the streets.  A lot of homeless folk live a life of sofa surfing and hostels

Caring about other people is never stupid. I find it hard to decide who to give money to, so a few years ago I stopped altogether and make monthly donations to local homelessness charities instead. Don't know if that's better or worse.

Never feel stupid or silly for offering some help towards someone, even if they do the wrong thing with that help. The second no-one helps out their fellow citizens at all is the time we cease to be a civilized society.

Back in my old job customers would regularly offer us free drinks or food. The saying was 'never refuse a freebie' as even if you didn't like it if you stopped taking them they would stop giving them. I regularly used to give my coffee or cake to the homeless regulars on eg Queen Street in Cardiff or High Street in Hereford, to the point where I'd have them keeping an eye on me as I was doing my round!

When you work in the city centre, as I did a lot, pre-covid, you tend to see the same people all the time.

I would be out doing my old job at all times of day and night and would see the homeless going about their lives all the time round Cardiff. Regular bin surfers in the early morning, one who watched the ducks at Roath Lake at 3am every day (he slept in the bushes), the group who met every evening by the old docks station to smoke whatever and check in on each other, etc. They really are a sub-culture of the modern world that lots of people just don't see. It was rather shocking to see them everywhere during the first week or so of the first lockdown as they were the only people about, was even stranger when they all disappeared overnight when the scheme that put them up in hotels etc kicked in.

A long time ago I asked someone begging by a train station shop if I could get them anything, they asked for wet wipes and tissues.

The supermarkets round me have pre-packaged donation parcels for food banks that you can buy then drop in the donation basket on the way out, I try and buy one when I'm doing a big shop. I'll always go for the ones labeled up as 'toiletries' or 'sanitary products' as that's far more important than some sweets or other such treat. They're always the last ones left too, there's always a selection at the beginning of the day.

Sadly I have noticed a big rise in the amount of homeless people the last few months in Cardiff and Bristol, both places with a large amount of them. New groups of tents under bridges, on roundabouts, old groups growing in size etc. There's also been a spate of people being found dead in parks and in subways, hardly ever reported but the sight of an ambulance and police car attending to a body in a sleeping bag or a cardboard box house is unmistakable. Hopefully the relatively mild winter is helping more survive.

One of my flatmates years ago worked for a local homeless charity as a counsellor and advised always helping them by spending time chatting to them to remind them they're still part of society and/or giving food etc but he said never give them money as they [I]will[/I] spend it on drink/drugs and that just made his job - trying to get them to turn their lives around - so much harder.

I live somewhere relatively affluent - so I appreciate this isn't the situation everywhere - and people in need are actually pretty well supported by the council & local charities; generally everyone who needs a place to stay will get one. [I]Unless[/I] you've given them cash & they've spent it getting obliterated in which case they'll definitely be turned away for the safety of other residents (or simply unable to make their way to the shelter) so again not really helping.

Donate money by all means but directly to charities/shelters/food banks etc.

(This is assuming they're not professional beggars/part of a gang, which is another kettle of fish entirely!)

are they just blowing it on drugs

What if they are? If I was homeless I'd be spending the cash on drink and drugs too. It's pretty much the only way to block out the horror of the situation. What else are they going to spend their money on? (apart from food obvs)

What if they are?

One of my flatmates years ago worked for a local homeless charity as a counsellor and advised always helping them by spending time chatting to them to remind them they’re still part of society

another anecdote

A chap asked me for money one day - he was wandering around my area asking folk for money.  I said no and walked off then thought better of it and went back to him and asked if he wanted some food and had a wee chat with him..  He said "i really could do with a coffee".  I went into one of the posh cafes and bought him an expensive takeaway coffee.  The look on his face when I came out of the cafe was great as he clearly thought I was not going to buy him a coffee ( the cafe was round the corner from where he was)  He said to me " you are the only person who has treated me like I am human today"

That made me feel good

I do not believe in altruism.  I do not believe it exists.  Acts of charity like this make the donor feel good.

Real eye opener this thread. I will have to admit to being one of the people who puts his head down and ignores them. Completely wrong, and I thank for thread for highlighting it to me. I've just gone through my own mini life crisis, very messy divorce that had the intention of ruining me financially and mentally. I was incredibly lucky to have a strong supportive family behind me, without that, who knows where I would have been. I was close to giving up on the "normal life".

Zilog, I completely understand your friends rationale. But as others have said, these folk are in dire straits. I will in future be making an effort to have cash or buy them food when ever the opportunity arises.

PS - I have always supported charities directly out of my wage and that was always my answer as to why I didn't directly give cash to homeless people on the street. I pay £50 a month to different charities each year. This year is UN Refugee Agency UNHCR. I do always worry about how much of my monthly contribution actually get to the people who need it though.

It can happen so quickly. I was homeless with the kids for a short while about three years ago. My (ex)wife is an alcoholic and I had to leave our house with the kids. We stayed with my parents for a while, but my Mum got sick and we couldn't stay there.

Luckily the housing association got us put up in a B&B as there were no places in hostels. I couldn't afford to pay for rent anywhere as I was still paying the mortgage on the house that she refused to leave. In the end the police had to remove her and we got back home, but it was a nightmare.

I was accused of domestic abuse for 'making her homeless' when she was removed from the house as she had to sleep on one of her family members sofas for two nights....... Not worrying that her kids and I had to stay with my family for 6 months and then for a few weeks of the two kids and I living in a single room in a B&B - that was okay apparently...... still makes me so cross to think about it!

Anyway, shows how easily and quickly you can go from a nice confortable life to being homeless. If I didn't have the two kids I would have been on the street.

K

my friend who is a homeless counsellor cannot do his job

Well I sympathise with your friend, but I doubt a homeless person facing a freezing night in a doorway is going to worry too much about that. It's entirely their decision how they choose to get through their situation, if their chosen coping method is to get wasted then that's up to them. If they want to talk to a counsellor and get help then that is also up to them. Homeless people are not children who need 'saving', they're adults who have agency and can make their own decisions. If for some reason they don't have capacity to do that then there are other ways to deal with that rather than lecturing them about drug and alcohol use.

I give to shelter, as I figure they're the experts who know how to target support in the most effective way.

It’s entirely their decision how they choose to get through their situation, if their chosen coping method is to get wasted then that’s up to them. If they want to talk to a counsellor and get help then that is also up to them.

Homeless people are not children who need ‘saving’

During most of December we had an Eastern European (I'm assuming) girl stood outside our Co-Op every day. She was dropped off at 8-9am and collected around 5-6. She was selling the big issue and seemed very genuine. We chatted some and bought a few/gave her some food and money but she was quite vague about the situation other than she'd been brought in from Birmingham which is 50 miles/over an hour away.

It could well be gangs, it could well be a scam but she was stood in a bus shelter for 10-11 hours a day with no supplies and nowhere to even go to the toilet so I don't begrudge giving her a bit of something. She earned it.

I've not been passed in the day since new year so not sure if she's still coming or if it was a Christmas thing.

One guy asked for some change recently as I was paying for a car park but I’d just given my last bit to someone else I’d seen earlier that night. I told him and he said ‘of course you did mate!’ I felt bad I had no more change but I guess they hear that excuse all the time.

Honestly, in that situation I'd thinking "well, now I'm glad I didn't give you anything." Conversely, I had one guy a little while ago, I said "I'm really sorry mate, but just don't have any change" and he came back with "that's OK, thanks anyway, have a good evening." I was halfway through "you too..." when I realised how stupid that sounded, went back and gave him a fiver just because he was polite.

Cynically, it's possible that that was his schtick and I'd been played. 🤷‍♂️ Point is, someone said earlier about it being hard not to be judgemental. In taking the choice away from them we are judging, even if that's well-meaning. Who am I to say whether they need a sandwich or a coffee or what they might do with cash, is it my place to be exerting power and control?

I see someone well-groomed who is begging and I think "sure you're homeless" when there's a guy down the street who looks like Catweazel who clearly is. I realise now from the comments in this thread that I might have that arse-backwards, the first guy might just be "in the system" that provides access to basic toiletry facilities and maybe he's more deserving of a few coppers or a McCoffee than the guy living under the bridge. And now... I'm still judging, aren't I.

We have "you don't look disabled..." maybe we also need "you don't look homeless..."?

I pay £50 a month to different charities each year. This year is UN Refugee Agency UNHCR. I do always worry about how much of my monthly contribution actually get to the people who need it though.

The way I look at it is, that sort of amount is (to my judgemental mind) more beneficial to small local charities. If I was bequeathing my estate to a charity it might be something like Cancer Research or BHF. Donating a fiver to Cancer Research likely wouldn't cover the admin costs to process it.

I did a sponsored run a little while ago, I raised a couple of hundred quid for a local women's help charity. They replied back to me saying thank you and told me exactly what they were going to with the cash (they were going to brighten up one of their counselling rooms, throw a bit of paint around and buy something arty for the wall). With reference to TJ's 'altruism' comment, this made me feel like I'd done a better thing than donating to a major charity. But then of course, if everyone thinks like that then Cancer Research et al has a problem!

It's difficult, isn't it.

I pay £50 a month to different charities each year. This year is UN Refugee Agency UNHCR. I do always worry about how much of my monthly contribution actually get to the people who need it though.

Fair concern I think. Part of the money you donate is about them being able to run an effective organisation so overheads and paid staff are always needed. Some will be leaner than others and I'm sure the most effective are ranked somewhere. This talk is interesting on that topic https://fs.blog/knowledge-project-podcast/william-macaskill/ - with a founder of The Centre for Effective Altruism

What if they do want to talk to the counsellor, but because you’ve just given them a tenner and they have – against their better judgement now got battered on cider – they miss their appointment?

Next time I go into Manchester for work I might try that line on someone. I can imagine what their response will be. Something along the lines of 'well f off then you patronising w**'. Seriously, it's really not up to me to make judgements about whether they have the capacity to seek professional help. What I can do though is give them a little bit of cash for whatever they need it for.

Sounds like you are seriously underestimating the harm that mental health issues & addiction cause.

Mrs Daz was a social worker specialising in the support and treatment of drug and alcohol users for 15 years and many of her clients were homeless. I reckon I'm much more informed about the impact of substance abuse than the average punter. Rule number one of drug treatment is you can't help users until they walk through the door of their own accord and ask for it.

no obviously adults are not children, they absolutely do need help though…

See above. You can't impose 'help' on drug users. Lots of drug users, whether they are homeless or not don't want help and are content to carry on with their lifestyle. They may not particularly like it, but for various reasons they may prefer it to the alternatives (being 'in the system' etc).

Dunno, it's tough to know. When I used to go into Town in order to sign for the JSA, I'd then go to Greggs to buy as much tea and sandwiches as I could carry (because frankly JSA was a drop in the ocean, either I was going to find a job before savings ran out, or the mortgage wasn't getting paid in 3 months, £73 wasn't going to touch the sides of that so another £12 wasn't making any difference ). Some people were genuinely grateful for it, a handful immediately switched to full on grifting.

My wife used to pass a chap most mornings who had a sign saying he was Type 1 - she stopped to talk one day as we've got a T1 son. She found out what had happened in his life - there was no drugs just he'd run out of luck. She found what he needed - e.g. food and something for if he had a hypo (low blood sugar) so she'd regularly get him supplies

We're both in Manchester but not in the centre these days. The Council actively encourages people to donate to the charities looking after people and or give food/drink where possible.

One of my best mates was kicked out by his ****less parents when he was 16. He slept in the doorway of a local church.

He talked of suddenly hanging round with the scary, grizzled, long term homeless addicts, instead of peers and schoolkids. And with the cold and discomfort of lying on concrete, and the fear of getting robbed or having the shit kicked out of you by drunken arseholes while you're asleep, he couldn't actually get to sleep without knocking back 2 litres of cider first. He was really scared. And, eventually, he was an alcoholic.

It's a really tricky one. I don't often give money to people on the street although I do have direct debits to several homeless and addiction charities.

I used to live in the Hulme redbricks and my next door neighbour used to beg by the cash machine near the Sand Bar. I was about 21 and I thought he was just a blagger. But now I'm not so sure. Things are rarely so black and white.

What if they are? If I was homeless I’d be spending the cash on drink and drugs too. It’s pretty much the only way to block out the horror of the situation. What else are they going to spend their money on? (apart from food obvs)

Its not really the point to wonder about what he or she might use the money for. If its drugs, you cant change their mind or get them help, its something they must do for themselves. Finally come to that conclusion and seek hellp

One of the problems we have though is the government doesn't like spending money on initiatives for addicts or homeless unless theres some political point scoring in it. It's nearly always private individuals or former addicts/homeless who start these things.

The best you can do, if you understand that your donation is going to be used for drugs/etc(probably) is to give to an organization who works to help those in turmoil. Plenty of Christian or other religious organizations fund homeless or rehabilitation projects. Macedon is one. They work in conjunction with Centerpoint but have or run night shelters and 'homes' around the country.

Centerpoint run a night shelter in the center of London on Shaftsebury ave(In St Annes church) for 16-18 yr olds. It's easy to donate to either of these two causes, and you can do it online.

Its not really the point to wonder about what he or she might use the money for.

This is kinda what I was circling around.

There was a thread I think on STW a short while ago, an auntie or grannie was gifting a sizeable sum of money to the kids but they had to spend it on something that would become a family heirloom. I remember thinking at the time, that's not how gifts work. If she wants little Hermione to have a watch, buy her a watch, that's a great gift. If she wants to give her money then give her money, that's a great gift. If she wants to give her money and then dictate what she can and can't do with it, that's narcissistic manipulation.

I'm kind of the same mind here. We either want to help or we don't, but beyond a desire to help in the best way we shouldn't be hanging conditions on it.

I do a mix, support a few homeless charities via monthly DD, buy lunch to anyone I pass when I'm on my lunch run and also give out the odd £5 to people - although recently the number I see locally seems to have reduced a lot in Cambridge - possibly they've just moved to a more lucrative part of town...

If I have the time I do chat to them, pretty easy to see why they're on the streets - most seem to have a whole host of mental illness / drug problems - one was quite open about being a herion addict - he was only homeless as something had gone wrong with his benefits and he'd been kicked out of sheltered accommodation as his benefit had stopped.

Interestingly, they all had mobile phone provided by a local charity who pay the bill - as without one and access to email etc you can't access benefits. When Joseph lost his, he was in a right state, but the charity just gave him a new on the next day...

As for giving them cash, I don't really mind if they do spend it on drink / drugs etc, probably makes living on the streets a little more bearable and you're not going to get them clean by not giving them money as addiction is such a strong thing.

Homeless people, am I stupid?

No, not stupid because you are just a kind soul.

Your money so do as you wish, but how they spend it is entirely up to them provided they don't use the money to harm others.

Not stupid.

I found a chap sleeping on the estate at (now my old) work. Had a chat with him, told him that he hadn’t picked the best spot as people would complain (load of daily Mail readers homes there) so I showed him where the best/quietest/most remote part of the estate for him to camp was. He didn’t want much and really kept himself to himself so I left him be

I recall walking past a homeless guy a year or two back who was asking for money. I walked on thinking to myself "he'll just go and waste it on booze". Then I remembered I was off to meet some mates in the pub and was about to do exactly the same thing. So I went back and gave him a fiver.

That said my inclination is generally to give to homeless charities rather than individual people. In central Edinburgh in particular there are "professionals" working the streets, admittedly probably vulnerable people controlled by some dodgy low-life. On the other hand you see folk later at night in a really wretched state that are grateful for every penny.

So no easy answers really OP. And it's something that's definitely getting worse.

Act of kindness is never stupid.

I do try to avoid giving money as this is the most common advice given by charities.

What I try to do:
Always aknowledge them, even if it is to say no to begging, never ignore as though they are invisible.
Ask if they would like a drink or food of their choice.
Give socks or underpants