[Closed] Home Cinema: Quiet dialog in multi-channel DTS.

Buy a bigger centre speaker?

Or just buy some proper speakers..

I'd be checking that the source isn't transcoding the audio into something stupid first off.

@Couldnine, I thought the Kef's would be well up to the job of playing relatively quiet volumes to my less than trained ears. Are they really that bad? I've had them years.

@Cougar, how can I check that?.
But to be honest, this happened with hardcopies too, so this eliminates any transcoding shenanigans I assume.

It is not 'wrong' sounding, the centre channel is present and correct, just not obvious like it needs to be when playing at sensible volumes as the kids are in bed.

You've definitely verified this happens with a proper surround source (like a bluray plugged directly into the receiver)?

Glad somebody else has the same problem, this drives me nuts.

No combination of nightmode, DRC, etc solves it.

In my googling, i found something called "dolby volume" ([url= https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-volume.html ]link[/url]) which appears to do what we want. Next to find a receiver which implements it.

There is another one called Odyssey somethingorother and Yamaha have something called "Adaptive DRC" ([url= https://www.soundandvision.com/content/yamaha-rx-v1065-av-receiver-page-3 ]link[/url]) which seems to do it

Your speakers are just fine. Getting 'bigger' ones won't solve an issue with a quiet centre channel.

You've definitely verified this happens with a proper surround source (like a bluray plugged directly into the receiver)?

Glad somebody else has the same problem, this drives me nuts.

Your speakers are just fine. Getting 'bigger' ones won't solve an issue with a quiet centre channel.

I was just going with the usual stw unhelpful reply by someone..

Have you thought about a sub woofer.. these are good.. you'll be able to feel the explosions!

http://www.bkelec.com/hifi/sub_woofers/xxls400df.htm

Mine does this depending on what Surround decoding setting I have it on. The are about 20 different settings so it took a bit of playing to sort out, but if it's on Neural-X or DTS:Cinema then the centre channel is crystal clear regardless of what's happening elsewhere.

Have you thought about a sub woofer.. these are good.. you'll be able to feel the explosions!

before you buy anything, try a different source to check it's not (somehow) your source (rather than the amp). put kodi on a laptop and play the file from there (over hdmi, with passthru) and see if it still happens.

is the amp displaying DTS on it's screen? If not, the box is doing some interpretation of the signal and maybe needs to be configured to understand that passthrough is on

Mine does this depending on what Surround decoding setting I have it on. The are about 20 different settings so it took a bit of playing to sort out, but if it's on Neural-X or DTS:Cinema then the centre channel is crystal clear regardless of what's happening elsewhere.

I leave the DSP effects well alone, I do not like the artificial effects they give. Like 'cathedral' or 'shower'. I just dont get the idea behind them.

I leave it on 'straight DTS', no echo or artificial sound is added.
I dont mean 'pure direct' though, that removes all processing and sounds naff.

But as you mention it, I might try some of them again. I immediately discounted them years ago as I thought they were a real gimmick for the 'it plays really loud so must be good' folk. ?

Let me try to find the Yamaha equivalent for DTS:Cinema (I think all AV makers call them different names)

is the amp displaying DTS on it's screen? If not, the box is doing some interpretation of the signal and maybe needs to be configured to understand that passthrough is on

Does the tv output have an effect? I’m not a home cinema buff so have no idea but some programmes/channels/films have terrible dialogue volume. Luckily, our terrible LG tv has a clear voice option, which has worked a treat.

Definately nothing to do with the speakers. I’ve got Kef 5001’s too and hey are excellent and I don’t suffer this issue. It’s married upto an Onkyo receiver. My bet is on your network streamer. You can’t be sure what is going on to the base signal. You can’t beet a proper discreet hard format for consistency of quality of source signal. I get very variable results when streaming even from things like Netflicks and Amazon Prime there is variability between the picture and audio quality.

Does the tv output have an effect?

You can’t be sure what is going on to the base signal.

I'm going to do some testing this weekend with a BR player if possible.

I find that some films are just that way inclined, yet it does seem to be worse on DTS encoded films, maybe it's the coding or maybe its the type of films that end up using DTS as the main stream, they seem to be quite action/explosion orientated.
You could eliminate DTS as the issue by changing the option to DD or Dolby 2.0 in the DVD menu. Another option would be to disconnect the .1 (sub) as that will have a fairly high X-over point of about 120-150 htz which causes mayhem with deep male voices (Liam Neeson especially ).

FWIW I have found changing from eggs to floor standers & turning the roll off point of the sub to 60 htz has helped a lot but sometimes it's just the way the film was encoded that's the problem.

HTH.

Is there now way to change the output for each speaker? Most dialogue comes out of the centre, so I'd look at trying to increase that. Many receivers have such setting, but they're usually pretty buried in the menus.

I have a similar setup to the OP - Kef 2000 somethings (the Eggs and the incredible self-destructing subwoofer) and an older Yamaha RX surround receiver.

I use a number of different sources (Freeview, Netflix, Amazon etc) and occasionally I get the same problem. Usually it's down to the source material not being properly encoded for surround sound and the amp not forcing it through one of its surround models. In those circumstances I just switch it to enhanced stereo (which mimics a proper surround programme) and that does the job. Might be worth a look?

My amp also has different decoders - Neologic, Dolby etc, and some stuff works better with one than another.

Is there now way to change the output for each speaker? Most dialogue comes out of the centre, so I'd look at trying to increase that. Many receivers have such setting, but they're usually pretty buried in the menus.

Although thats a good point. I'm not sure if I turned the others down to -7db, they might still be on default 0.
I'll check tonight.

In those circumstances I just switch it to enhanced stereo (which mimics a proper surround programme) and that does the job. Might be worth a look?

There seems to be many people that experience the same thing, not down to a setup or equipment problem as its just the way it is for some films' sound tracks.

Dump your system into ebay.

Upgrade to a good quality audio Hifi system.

Plug your TV into that.

Listen to music. Watch movies with a good sound to them. Win/win.

Mr Woppit - Member
Dump your system into ebay.

Upgrade to a good quality audio Hifi system.

Plug your TV into that.

Listen to music. Watch movies with a good sound to them. Win/win.

Peak STW answer - ignore the question and then suggest something that's going to cost a load of money and potentially have no bearing on the OP's problem!

Better than trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

High initial cost for long-term satisfaction.

*other opinions are available*

I'm finding this a lot and been the same with various amps. It depends on the source though. It's just a lot of stuff these days are heavy on the surround an bass but not the dialogue. That said I've got old stuff remastered on Blu Ray and they seem to be mixed that way also.

Flick to Sky however and that's more balanced in a lot of shows and way too loud from the centre on adverts, but drama and sci-fi stuff is still surround/bass/music heavy.

I've resorted at times to turning on the dynamic volume on my amp. Might be a sin, but actually sounds really good and I can also have the overall volume much lower yet get some good deep bass effects, and can hear the dialogue.

Of course it could be my hearing 😀

I have never been able to listen to a movie without having to alter the volume to increase the dialog then turn it down when the action stars.

Is it just movies or do you have the same problem with TV programmes as well?

I've got the same receiver and haven't had the issue.
My guess is you're just not liking the wide dynamic range that movies are mixed to but small speakers and a crossover that's pushing a lot of audio to a small sub might not be helping. You say you've already tried boosting the centre channel volume and sub level though.

From the [url= https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/8/329878/RX-S600_S600D_om_UCRABGLF_En.pdf ]manual[/url] it looks like there might be two places where you can adjust the dynamic range. P87 specifically mentions min/standard/Max settings for dynamic range for Bitstream Audio (ie DTS and Dolby Digital) which looks like a different setting the 'adaptive DRC' mentioned on page 75.

If you're streaming dodgy ripped files I've found the soundtracks often get trashed in the process.

Adaptive DRC is what I mentioned above, that sounds like it should do the job from what I've read.

I have similar prob but mine corrects itself after 10 min or so

If you're streaming dodgy ripped files I've found the soundtracks often get trashed in the process.

I was about to say the same thing. If you're downloading 1080p copies then they're probably 5.1, lower video formats tend to be stereo. I imagine.

How is the streamer connected? To the TV and then you have a return channel (ARC) HDMI to the amp?

As I just discovered with my Samsung Smart TV, inputs to the TV and returned out in stereo, so the amp will do a Pro Logic surround decode but it's no where near as good as discrete 5.1.

Direct in to the amp, and 5.1. Oddly the Smart TV apps will send 5.1 down the ARC feed, but not stuff from other inputs to the TV.

Still though, I find discrete 5.1 makes the centre quieter at times. I don't have a sub, but I do have the low frequencies to the front speakers which are large enough to rumble. Not sure it affects centre channel though. With Pro Logic processing, probably, but discrete should just send the centre channel to the centre channel.

Still though, I find discrete 5.1 makes the centre quieter at times. I don't have a sub

5.0, then. (-:

With Pro Logic processing

Is it the 1990s again?

Something to do with downmixing

[url= https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.howtogeek.com/218949/htg-explains-why-the-dialogue-on-your-hdtv-is-too-quiet/amp/ ]Link[/url]

This is quite 'normal' these days. The sound is designed to be loud in the cinema, and thats how it gets translated to bluray etc.
Most things have a dynamic range reduction function somewhere to combat this, but its often still not enough for some peoples taste/living arrangements.

Mr Woppit - Member
Better than trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

High initial cost for long-term satisfaction.

*other opinions are available*

it’s only a question of reaching round the back and turning the little knob a bit.

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Cougar - Moderator

Still though, I find discrete 5.1 makes the centre quieter at times. I don't have a sub

5.0, then. (-:

With Pro Logic processing

Is it the 1990s again?

Well, it's 5.1 with the .1 LFE sent to the front speakers. Not discrete but then the sub is non directional anyway. If the fronts go low enough it's similar effect.

Actually the amp is 7.1 but my set up is 7.1 - 2.1 😀

And the Pro Logic (or PLII) as I say is what the amp will default to if given a 2.0 feed, which is what was happening with the return channel from the TV. Direct into amp, and get 5.1 etc.

Some excellent advice here. Let me digest it tmrw mornng and report back..!

Pro Logic (or PLII) as I say is what the amp will default to if given a 2.0 feed,

Ah, of course. As you were.

I think that this is a common issue. I find it disappointing to see people suggesting that spending money is the answer. Yes better kit will reduce the problem but the bottom line is that film sound tracks have a huge dynamic range. The sound levels are meant to be standardised for all cinemas. But this standard produces sound levels that would be unaccepatble in many living rooms.

We swapped from a hi-fi separates system to 5.1 system to help with the problem. It did and I can't see how on the same budget a stereo system would ever be better. The easiest fix is turning up the centre channel, this was never an option with stereo. I have seen movies with a sound through a really high end stereo and it did sound really good but it doesn't in any way tackle dynamic range

To be honest we have only really dealt with the issue by accepting high volume levels in action sequences. Our kids are adults so we aren't disturbing them, we don't listen late and next doors kids are teenagers as well so its not like anyone is trying to sleep through it

If the kids were younger I'd be looking at dynamic range changes in the processor. I really should get the manual out for our receiver

I hope you find a solution

Same in our house. I think it's deliberate, in the way they've produced it. People want gut wrenching explosions and so on, so the action is dead loud when the dialogue is appropriate. Except we have kids and neighbours, and you don't always want full on thrills when you're just watching Netflix in the evening.

Our sub has its own volume knob on the back, so we've got this turned down almost all the way, so it just contributes a slight rumble and body to the bottom end. Then we can turn the main volume up higher.

Another thought

Both receivers I have owned have had a "center width" adjustment. Increasing the "center width" sends the center channel more to the left and right fronts. The booklet with my current receiver says a center width of 7 or above may send no sound to the center channel. So I think turning up the centre channel will be most effective with the "center width" set to its lowest value

At last a benefit from getting older!
Our appetite for blockbuster films with battle scenes, car chases and whizz bangs has disappeared. This means we can happily watch stuff on our 5 yr old telly through its inbuilt speakers and everything sounds lovely.
Some of the action scenes on Dad's Army can get a bit scary though.

To be honest we have only really dealt with the issue by accepting high volume levels in action sequences.

Some amps have a 'night mode' which will curb loud sequences and boost quiet ones.

OK, I have tried all sorts.
The source is not the problem. BR is the same as streamed via the WD-TW.

I have lowered all the other channels to help out the higher level of the dialogue. Also switched on the 'Enhancer' mode and turned the dynamic range to low. It is better, in some films.

I think the issue is that the center channel on some films includes some of the action, explosions and music. Rather than being just for voice. So if I increase the voice level, I also increase the noisy bits. Not good for a family house with the lounge below the kids.
Other films direct the action to the front left/right and the voice to the center. This was the way I thought it was designed back in the days but it appears that some newer films are pushing 'all to all' for increased wow factor maybe?.

That sounds like you need to set the channels up yourself.
EG, set FL, FR, RL & RR to 80htz, set sub to 80htz but set centre to 120htz & increase volume it by +4db 8)

I had this for a while. I thought it was the puny Tannoy 5.1 speaker set up I had. Not the case. Nor was it the Yamaha RX-V379.

I did something similar to what 2unfit2ride did.

To fix it so that dialog was at an audible volume I used the auto-setup microphone to get initial settings. Then I bumped up the mid-range frequencies and relative loudness of the centre channel by a few dB on the amp's setup. Problem solved. Centre channel speech loud and clear. Other sounds OK. Though I'll add that the centre channel speech could sometimes be a bit harsh because of the frequency boost.

I've since changed a few things and now use a pair of MA GR60s for the front rather than the Tannoys and I've removed the centre speaker altogether. A 4.1 setup. Sound is great IMO, speech clear, other sounds balanced.